Garrard 25 MK iv 45rpm stuck

[Jimbo]

Hi folks,

My girlfriend has just inherited a 1975 sony music centre ( Built like a tank) with a Garrard 25 mk iv turntable which has a few problems. First the speed selector switch is stuck fast. Also the automatic arm function has doesn't work. When I first started it up the arm was very sticky and wouldn't track but after moving it backwards and forwards a number of times it was ok ish!

Would these problems be difficult to sort and also can anyone recommend a better cartridge rather than the original Sony.

Other than that its fine! :lol::rolleyes: At least my girlfriend is very happy as she has got all her old records out and is over the moon listening to vinyl again - those that play at 33 rpm.:rolleyes:

[vacdac]

Back in t' day I had an SP 25 IV as a teen. I had a couple of Ortofon FF15 mk. 2's on it in the time I had it. These days I'd have thought there would be little milage in owt more 'spensive than an AT95/Rega carbon....an AT91 should be easily good enough too.

Can't help with t' deck related maintenance as twas 25+ years back & IIRC the standalone model I had was fully manual, I really don't seem to remember any level of it even being semi auto. Could be the case that the music centre variant wuz somewhat different eg having automated features.:scratch: This could mean significant mechanical differences.

Can't say I remember the deck with much fondness, although it was better with the FF15 than what it came with...I also had a Lenco TT/London unipivot arm/London Decca cart too, at the time which obviously chewed t' Garrard up.

One memory of the Garrard that is clear tho' is that t' Garrard seemed to monster through belts very quickly (every several months:rolleyes:) & the pitch change/speed instability was very obvious....as a result of this repeated experience I'm somewhat more sensitive than some to such issues....which is indeed handy, to know when a belt change is needed on my Gyro (not at all often as it goes)...so although the deck was really a little bit poo I'm actually grateful to Garrard fer that.:lol:

[DSJR]

The SP25 IV was much better in conventional performance, especially rumble, than the previous models and deserves to be serviced.

Firstly, look at the extensive threads on this on Vinyl-Engine, since ALL Garrard auto decks from the mid 70's and earlier seem to seize up with grease that turns to gummy-glue by now, especially if the deck's been unused for many years.

The deck will have to be carefully removed and disconnected from the unit it's in, turned upside down and the mechanism carefully checked. The "Autoslim" mech isn't hugely complex and the seized bits will be very evident if the levers are CAREFULLY moved while observing where the pivots are. Service manuals for many of these Garrards are on VE as well, and the one I use as a master reference is for the earlier model SL65, since 90% of the mechanism is the same as the SP25 IV.

I could give you chapter and verse here, but I'm a tired and lazy git and would prefer you to look on VE for advice and pics on where to start and how to proceed. I doubt you'll need to mass-disassemble the mechanism, but it's not too difficult to do in fairness, the main large auto-plate being the main part to remove (a circlip and a spring or two, depending on the model). The auto trip slider and pawl (on the main cam under the platter) MUST be DRY and clean and the trip-pawl parts should shake like the leaves on a tambourine and not be oiled or greased up in any way at all. the arm pivots are spring loaded and don't usually seize, but there is a sliding link underneath the arm, connected to the main auto-plate that the under-arm lever "rides" in - a slightly oval slot (this part engages when auto-cycling and pushes/pulls the arm into position, all but disengaging when the cycle has finished). This ought to be dry although Garrard smeared a sliver of grease here from new IIRC.

The tonearm on this deck is massy, but not so useless as to prevent a good modern cheapy from being used once the deck is serviced, such as an AT91/Rega Carbon or AT95E. Any of the better "DJ" cartridges will be perfect too as well as the better Pickering V15 models tracking at 2g or so (V15-VE?).

Hope this helps, and don't abandon it to scrap just yet :) Below are some pics of my related 60mk2 under-parts.. Over-slicked and if yours is anything like this, I'd remove all the grease and only sparingly use a touch of LM2 grease on the sliding parts and NONE on the arm linkages or auto-trip parts.

Bloody Photobucket - they've "improved" their site and I'm finding it difficult to transfer images across...

IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/edef337f.jpg[/IMG]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/08501709.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/c23be2aa.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/e6752a5b.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/26004b85.jpg

[Jimbo]

The SP25 IV was much better in conventional performance, especially rumble, than the previous models and deserves to be serviced.

Firstly, look at the extensive threads on this on Vinyl-Engine, since ALL Garrard auto decks from the mid 70's and earlier seem to seize up with grease that turns to gummy-glue by now, especially if the deck's been unused for many years.

The deck will have to be carefully removed and disconnected from the unit it's in, turned upside down and the mechanism carefully checked. The "Autoslim" mech isn't hugely complex and the seized bits will be very evident if the levers are CAREFULLY moved while observing where the pivots are. Service manuals for many of these Garrards are on VE as well, and the one I use as a master reference is for the earlier model SL65, since 90% of the mechanism is the same as the SP25 IV.

I could give you chapter and verse here, but I'm a tired and lazy git and would prefer you to look on VE for advice and pics on where to start and how to proceed. I doubt you'll need to mass-disassemble the mechanism, but it's not too difficult to do in fairness, the main large auto-plate being the main part to remove (a circlip and a spring or two, depending on the model). The auto trip slider and pawl (on the main cam under the platter) MUST be DRY and clean and the trip-pawl parts should shake like the leaves on a tambourine and not be oiled or greased up in any way at all. the arm pivots are spring loaded and don't usually seize, but there is a sliding link underneath the arm, connected to the main auto-plate that the under-arm lever "rides" in - a slightly oval slot (this part engages when auto-cycling and pushes/pulls the arm into position, all but disengaging when the cycle has finished). This ought to be dry although Garrard smeared a sliver of grease here from new IIRC.

The tonearm on this deck is massy, but not so useless as to prevent a good modern cheapy from being used once the deck is serviced, such as an AT91/Rega Carbon or AT95E. Any of the better "DJ" cartridges will be perfect too as well as the better Pickering V15 models tracking at 2g or so (V15-VE?).

Hope this helps, and don't abandon it to scrap just yet :)

Thanks for the advice Dave.

[Jimbo]

Just like to thank Dave (DSJR) for his advice on returning a Garrard Sp25 Mk 1V back to working order.

This turntable was bought in the mid 70,s by my girlfriends grandparents but it was part of a Sony music centre. Interestingly although the rest was Sony, including the cartridge it was assembled in Britain using the Garrard TT.

The music centre was the typical tape, tuner and TT one box type but the Turntable was never used hence its internal grease solidified and prevented operation of both the tonearm and speed controls. However with Dave,s advice I have managed to remove the grease and through constant use over the past 12 months it has now become usable and indeed it sounds quite nice. With the original Sony speakers set up on small stands it is very enjoyable to listen too and has turned my girlfriend into a vinyl fanatic!!:lol:

It cost £0 and just goes to show even basic systems like these can give a lot of pleasure for not much dosh.

I remember Music Centres being all the rage in the 70,s. Does anyone still use these systems on the AOS?

[Barry]

Hi folks,

My girlfriend has just inherited a 1975 sony music centre ( Built like a tank) with a Garrard 25 mk iv turntable which has a few problems. First the speed selector switch is stuck fast. Also the automatic arm function has doesn't work. When I first started it up the arm was very sticky and wouldn't track but after moving it backwards and forwards a number of times it was ok ish!

Would these problems be difficult to sort and also can anyone recommend a better cartridge rather than the original Sony.

Other than that its fine! :lol::rolleyes: At least my girlfriend is very happy as she has got all her old records out and is over the moon listening to vinyl again - those that play at 33 rpm.:rolleyes:

Sounds as though all the grease lubricated parts have dried up - including the arm bearings.

[Barry]

Oops - hadn't realised Dave had already answered you query (and a lot better than I could have done).

The Garrard SP25 Mk. II (?) was my first deck. I deliberately removed the arm's auto-lift and return link, as the action was a bit 'violent' and I didn't want to damage my shiny new Shure M3D cartridge.

[Audioflyer]

I remember Music Centres being all the rage in the 70,s. Does anyone still use these systems on the AOS?

My wife would love one as she thinks the Quad II's & the 22 preamp look ugly and doesn’t like all the wire hanging around.
I'm banned from using the KT66 Leak TL12.1's and as for the bloody radiators (ELS57) they can stay in the spare room. That's her words.

Sharif.

[walpurgis]

You seem a bit 'under the thumb' Sharif. :)

[Audioflyer]

I've have to sweet talk her! :donk:

Just shown her what I've posted first thing she said what is all this junk and records worth!! :eek:

Sharif.

[twotone]

I've have to sweet talk her! :donk:

Just shown her what I've posted first thing she said what is all this junk and records worth!! :eek:

Sharif.

There's a good thread on PFM about the resurgence of music centres and radiograms, Ruark have one out believe it or not, and only yesterday I spotted a huge billboard advert for TTs (Linn LP12) from Glasgow's Loud & Clear in the Pollockshields area of Glasgow, this particular run-down part of that rather salubrious area is not where you would think that someone would buy a £2k TT but just goes to show what I know.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=157190

http://www.loud-clear.co.uk/