Mayware Formula V unipivot tonearm - true or false?

[datawireless]

All,

I have recently acquired what I thought was a Mayware Formula 4 Mk.V tonearm, at least that is what was advertised (not through this Forum, I hasten to add). It turned out to be a Formula V tonearm but there are some inconsistencies, the text and font of the make and model being only one.

Have a look at the attached link to the photos. What do you think - a genuine article? All comments are welcome.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=648d3066e2cb4ba9&id=648D3066E2CB4BA9%21937&Bsrc=Photomail&Bpub=SDX.Photos&sff=1&authkey=!AESE-bD28Mqiy8w


Thanks,
Mike

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

My apologies, but I've removed your duplicate thread in Private Exhibitions, as that area of the forum is strictly for selling unwanted items, and the discussion of that thereof.

However, I'm sure that someone with the necessary knowledge will be along here shortly to answer your query on the Mayware. Andre is a good bet! :)

Marco.

[Mr Kipling]

Like the Hadcock, it had a number of variations. Andre will tell you better.

[DSJR]

My recollection was that at some point, the arm tube gained diameter, but I think the arm pictured is genuine and probably really really good with the less fussy MC types too, as well as all fixed coil types. linn had cornered the market with the Ittok at this point and the demand for alternatives dropped off in the early 80's sadly.

The lovely thing about the Formula 4's is that nothing ever fell off (unlike hadckocks of the era) and they stayed set up once "done." Should be ripe for a re-wire and tube-fill? at Audio Origami and once done, should be great for many cartridges of all types out there except the fussiest or heaviest ones...

[Rare Bird]

Yes the 'V' was the ultimate version, very rigid armtube, quite a few differences from the F4, Mk.III..

Dead easy to rewire, get yourself a good armlead to replace the standard & your cooking.. Sold my last Mayware a couple weeks ago, I've totally moved away from specialist items now.

[datawireless]

Thanks chaps.

And thank you André, anybody listening to Castle Conway Mk.1's can't be accused of having nothing to do with specialist equipment. I now have to decide whether to accept £235 offered for it or go ahead and rewire the beast, right?

I have a rather tasty DL-304 mc I would like to try it with. Think it'll work?

with regards,
Mike

[datawireless]

Hi Mike,

My apologies, but I've removed your duplicate thread in Private Exhibitions, as that area of the forum is strictly for selling unwanted items, and the discussion of that thereof.



Are the pictures good enough to upload to The Gallery Marco ? Be glad to let you have them.

Regards,
Mike

[walpurgis]

Look at it this way. What other arm could you possibly get for the £235 you've been offered that will even come close in ability. None, apart from a Mission 774!

(and before all the Rega buffs start ranting, I'll point out that I, like quite a few people don't like the sound of Rega arms)

The Denon DL-304 is a sweet sounding MC, but does not major on drive and power. It sounds a bit limp next to a DL-103R for instance. (yes I've owned both)

[datawireless]

Thanks Geoff,

I wasn't going to part with it for the offered price, just amazed at how we have moved in Hi-Fi from the enthusiast market, to mass market, to 2nd hand market and now to serviceable antique and classics market, all in the space of one generation, maybe 45 years. I just love it.

What cartridge / stylus would you suggest for the Formula V ?? André and I have been discussing the Pickering V15 /625 combination but I favour the Stanton 681 (even if they are the same, more or less).

If we are going to shake that tube, we'll need some input.

Regards,
Mike

[walpurgis]

I've been down the Stanton/Pickering route, If you've heard nothing else they're probably satisfying enough. I wasn't that keen. To me there's just that last little bit of refinement missing from the sound.

If you don't want an MC, you could a lot do worse than to track down an old favourite of Andr'e and myself, an ADC 10E MK.IV or ADC XLM III, used obviously, as they've been out of production for a generation, but they sound marvellous for a magnetic type. I used a 10E Mk.IV alongside a Denon DL-103R and was very surprised how similar they sounded. Either of the ADCs would match your arm well and be happy tracking at around 1.5 g. and they can be found on eBay with a bit of perseverance. Well worth tracking down. You can still get styli.

[datawireless]

Aha, Geoff, so you are a man with similar instincts. I do prefer working with MM transcription even down to the too polite and laid back A&R P77 of a yesteryear and the Ortofon VMS range (the VMS 20E Mk.II) but matched with superior tonearms and decks.

So, ADC 10E Mk.IV it shall be, if I can find it. Thanks for a tip!
Been out of the Hi-Fi world for 25 years and every bit of advice counts.

Thank you Sir.

Mike

[walpurgis]

Actually Mike I use low output MC much of the time, but I do love the ADCs, truly musical devices.

I've used the Ortofon VMS 20E and the older M15E, M20E, etc. and found the ADCs just better all round. The Ortofons sound a bit weedy in comparison, track well though, but so does a Shure and I wouldn't buy one of those again.

[AlasdairB]

I bought one of the last Mayware MkVs that were made and yours definitely looks genuine - and in beautiful condition. As for cartridges, don't fall for the old fallacy that only high compliance moving magnets can be used - the Mayware's sliding arm weight gives it variable effective mass, so it can be adjusted to work as either a low mass arm or a high mass arm. With a Denon DL103 and the cursor weight slid right up behind the headshell, the effective mass is increased to about 14g and the sound is excellent.

(If you want to get the very best results out of a DL103, add an Isokinetik 4g mass loading plate, which brings total effective mass (compared to a standard DL103) to 18g and cleans up the sound a little further.)

However I have also used the Mayware in low mass configuration with classic high compliance cartridges like the Goldring G900SE and it works with them too. I use it on a Walker CJ61 turntable, so (contrary to unipivot mythology) suspended subchassis is no problem either.

If you use a line contact stylus, make sure the headshell is parallel to the record surface transversely. Stand a piece of folded paper on a record beside the headshell and mark it just above the headshell top, then stand the paper on the far side of the record and adjust the lateral balance until it lines up with mark when you eye across the headshell. This simple technique ensures correct transverse alignment to within about 0.5 degrees. I use a Denon DL103 with an Esco Paratrace stylus and getting transverse alignment spot on was really worthwhile, bringing beautiful clarity and clean treble.

Have fun!

Alasdair

[Marco]

Are the pictures good enough to upload to The Gallery Marco ? Be glad to let you have them.

Regards,
Mike

Hi Mike,

Most definitely - so go right ahead! :)

Marco.

[datawireless]

Thanks Marco.

Will do.

Regards, Mike

[datawireless]

My dear Alasdair,

What a pleasure to read your comments. I was thinking along similar lines but did need some encouragement. I was away from the game for 26 years, and I mean completely, so getting my theories back in place is hard work. I am not conventional and have rarely followed the well rehearsed equipment fashions, and trends, only rarely.

With a postgraduate degree in acoustics and vibration, than many years practically developing my own ideas while working all hours in Automotive Industry, the career finally won. I learned a lot about commercial necessities of Hi-Fi industry from Doug Brady in Liverpool, he giving me the new pre-production kit to review and I getting him to occasionally display one of my 'creations' in his demo rooms.

This Michell Focus with Formula V and the winning cartridge/stylus will be me 'feeling' my way back.

Thanks again for the setting up tips. I knew most but forgot nearlyas much.

Regards,
Mike

[AlasdairB]

Dear Mike,

I'm pleased you found my comments useful. Often opinions expressed in hi-fi forums are based on belief rather than knowledge. I work as a civil and structural engineer, so I know that theory and practical experience both have their place - and real-life solutions always involve compromise. However sometimes identifying the source of problem and its solution can take a lot of thought and time.

I have used the Mayware arm for a long time but I only recently thought of the method for checking transverse azimuth alignment accurately - and I was amazed at the improvement in sound quality when I got it spot on. The effect was far bigger than the lateral alignment (or VTA) people spend so much time on. I kicked myself when I realised what I had been missing. By the time I had also found the optimum effective mass (18g), tracking force (2.4g) and electrical loading (220 ohms) for the Paratrace stylus-equipped Denon DL103 its sound (which had been OK to start with) had moved into a different league. It just took me rather a long while to work out.

Other worthwhile areas for experimentation are the cartridge/headshell interface and the turntable platter/subplatter interface - placing small pieces of thin paper, magic tape or foil in between has a surprisingly large effect on sound. On my Walker CJ61 I found that placing small pieces of magic tape around the perimeter of the subplatter to support the platter sweetened and tidied the treble nicely.

Experimenting with such things is part of the fun of hi-fi as a hobby - but how many systems fail to reveal their true potential because of a few little things which are not quite right?

Best wishes,

Alasdair

[DSJR]

Maywares did get more rigid as time went on, but I still think "good" fixed coil is the way to go for best results - just my take obviously...

ADC styli can still be got for the 10E IV, 25 and 26 (don't know how different the 27 was, as the XLM all but took over in the UK where ADC was concerned). My 26 tracks sibilants badly (with a "new" stylus too) at any tracking weight, but I love the later XLM III and descended Phase 4, which seem more stable. Lovely musical and spacious reproduction if you can find good examples..

My knowledge of modern MC types is more limited, but the Benz models look like they could work well, if not the possibly spikier Sumikos and I'm sure Ortofon have something that would work well. Adding mass to the counterweight may be an easy option too if the tracking force weight needs to be slid right up to the headshell.

Good luck :)

[datawireless]

Thanks for the suggestion Dave. I'll be asking more detail about your experience with ADC shortly. Just buying a veteran 10E Mk.IV (see 3 links):


http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9476/p1070702z.jpg
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/469/p1070703w.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8653/p1070701.JPG

and also an XLM Mk.III in very good nick:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ADC-XLM-MK-II-Cartridge-Stylus-Turntable-Record-Player-Needle-/00/s/MTI1MVgxNjAw/z/VR0AAMXQfFJRUP3T/$T2eC16J,!)kE9s4Z-5jcBRUP3Su)Yg~~60_57.JPG

Let's put some theories to the test.

Regards,
Mike

[walpurgis]

Blimey, what size do you upload your piccies at?

Anyway, that looks a good 10E Mk.IV. I have two (and a Mk.II) and if your's sounds as good you will be delighted. They are (still) a lovely cartridge. There are a few detractors on AOS, but I've compared the ADCs to some decent MCs and they don't fall short.

Let us know how you get on with it. 1.75 to 2gm. tracking will be about right. That works in my Mission 774.