Information on these please.

[Mike - H]

Picked these up off eBay with a cheeky late night bid of £46, they are quite an improvement on my nondescript JPWs. Can anyone give me any more info on DM4s, variants, pros and cons? Two specific questions, the mid/bass cone is coated with silicon gel, the lad I bought them off said they were like that when he bought them. Apparently the original owner had been advised to do this when they were new, and they’ve been like that all their lives. Anyone else heard of this? Secondly are there any mods or tweaks to improve them at all?

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/2279/bwdm4s17032013001.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img534/2613/bwdm4s17032013003.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img802/9053/bwdm4s17032013007.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img687/2475/bwdm4s17032013004.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img716/4445/bwdm4s17032013006.jpg

[walpurgis]

The tacky coating on the bass/mid cone is standard. The B&W made DW200 unit was treated with 'Plastiflex' as a damping agent during manufacter to reduce the Bextrene (poystyrene) cone colouration, It was still prone to a mild twanginess though.

The tweeter is a version of the Celestion HF1300 and a very worthy unit.

The super tweeter is a coles/STC type, possibly 4001G and I've made rude comments about these in the past (others don't agree).

That looks like a very nice pair of DM4s for the money. I've had a couple of pairs of them and they're not my favourite B&W speakers I have to say. Some people buy these thinking they are getting a sort of mini Spendor BC1 because of the similarity in appearance, but there's no comparison. They're fun to use though and at the price I think you have a nice enough pair of speakers.

[The Black Adder]

£46 is a great price regardless. A little update/tweek of the crossovers 'might' be in order though

[Mike - H]

Thanks Geoff, I'm not one of life's box swappers, but I may dabble with speakers and these are my first tentative steps. As I say they are quite a bit better than the JPWs, I am restricted by a wife who thinks speakers should be heard and not seen so I'm stuck in the world of shelf or stand mounts. As you say for the money they are a step in the right direction.

Cheers Joe, at that price there's nothing to lose really. I was just thinking I may wait until I work my way up to some long term keepers before I try modifying anything.

[julesd68]

Sorry Mike I think you need to get rid - not of the speakers but the wife!!

[southall-1998]

Sorry Mike I think you need to get rid - not of the speakers but the wife!!

No, he should get rid of the Wife :D

[julesd68]

Er, aren't we saying the same thing, Mr "Collection Only"??

[Mike - H]

Sorry Mike I think you need to get rid - not of the speakers but the wife!!

On the plus side, she bought me the 401 for my birthday last year :confused:

[southall-1998]

Oh, yeah :) @ jules68

[julesd68]

On the plus side, she bought me the 401 for my birthday last year :confused:

Ok in that case she could be a keeper!! Apologies to Mrs Mike H ... :)

[southall-1998]

Ok in that case she could be a keeper!! Apologies to Mrs Mike H ... :)

Let hope the Mrs is not bribing him ;)

[walpurgis]

Yes, there's no doubt they'll be an improvement on the JPWs.

[Dingdong]

I'd just check all the drivers are working correctly and leave them alone. It's not always easy to notice the Coles working, depending on your hearing. They can still be bought from Falcon Acoustics though.
The crossover should be alright. No electrolytics in there to go off with age. No nasty dips or anything at the crossover points.

Possibly add new binding posts if you really want to.


£46 is a bargain for the quality of speaker. Not as bargainous as my DM2a's, but still a bargain.
Give me a shout if you want to move them on at any point.

[Rare Bird]

They are late ones going by the black baskets.. Ive had both 'DM4' & 'DM2a'. I prefered the 'DM4'.. However i still have a small pair of 'D5' ('D5' not the 'DM5') i think i prefer them even more..

[Mike - H]

Are the DM2s, the same units in bigger cabs? :scratch:

[Rare Bird]

No not the same units

[Dingdong]

Are the DM2s, the same units in bigger cabs? :scratch:

Same tweeters, but different woofers. The 4's are front ported and the 2's transmission line.

[Rare Bird]

'DM2': Coles '4001G'/'Celestion 'HF1300-II' 'DW200/2'
'DM4': Coles '4001G'/'Celestion 'HF1300-II'/'DW200/4'

[synsei]

Geoff doesn't rate early B&W speakers, in fact he appears not to care much for many of the speakers others seem to champion, must be a taste thing I guess :scratch: I, on the other hand, rate DM2's very highly. I've not heard a pair of DM4's, however I would expect them to retain a similar character to DM2's as the drive units are almost identical. Smaller cabs may mean less bass extension though.

[walpurgis]

Geoff doesn't rate early B&W speakers, in fact he appears not to care much for many of the speakers others seem to champion, must be a taste thing I guess :scratch: I, on the other hand, rate DM2's very highly. I've not heard a pair of DM4's, however I would expect them to retain a similar character to DM2's as the drive units are almost identical. Smaller cabs may mean less bass extension though.

Steady Dave, I may not be that keen on the DM4, but I respect and like the DM2 and the little D5 that Andr'e likes, which although small is a better speaker than the DM4 in my humble opinion having owned both.

I do have make preferences, but that doesn't exclude my appreciation of other brands and design interpretations. I have to admit that my listening tends to favour 'point source' speakers though (excluding Lowthers, which were made for the 'aurally impaired' in my view). And I have always liked dipole panel speakers, Quad, Maggies, MLs and the like.

[Mike - H]

I’ve had these since March, and have really enjoyed them. Even now I’m still trying them in different positions, different height etc. they are very nice sounding speakers, although not in the best condition veneer wise. I’m ready to move on now and I am looking to move up. As before SWMBO will sulk like only she can, if I bring anything much bigger onto the scene.

I’ve been looking at speakers such as Tannoy mercury m20s, Ditton 15 XR and if I stretched the wife’s patience to its limits, I might get away with some DM2s if I found a really nice pair. I think i know what most of you think about the 15XRs and the DM2s, what about the m20s? Any other suggestions of a similar size/price range that would improve on the DM4s?

Cheers

[synsei]

If they are within your budget Mike you might want to give these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/291013864860?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item43c1c72d9c) some serious consideration. They were designed by Robin Marshall who went on to found Epos and they are very capable units. The cabinets are beautifully finished as well so good WAF factor there ;)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTI3OFgxNjAw/z/Qh0AAOxywXFSbX1X/$T2eC16RHJG8FGs3cwGJBBSb(1W1Bd!~~60_12.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTI3MFgxNjAw/z/McoAAOxyx-BSbX16/$(KGrHqYOKp0FJh4OkYmRBSb(15FmR!~~60_12.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTAwN1gxNjAw/z/2zEAAOxysE5SbX1n/$T2eC16RHJGcFJly9k7i1BSb(1nD8Uw~~60_12.JPG

[Mike - H]

I've got them on my watch list Dave, what do you think they might sell for? They are very nice looking speakers.

[synsei]

I have no idea Mike as this is the first pair I have seen come up on ebay. If I were you I'd send him a cheeky PM right now and ask him if he will accept the starting price, ya never know ;)

[Rothchild]

If they are within your budget Mike you might want to give these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/291013864860?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item43c1c72d9c) some serious consideration. They were designed by Robin Marshall who went on to found Epos and they are very capable units. The cabinets are beautifully finished as well so good WAF factor there ;)

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTI3OFgxNjAw/z/Qh0AAOxywXFSbX1X/$T2eC16RHJG8FGs3cwGJBBSb(1W1Bd!~~60_12.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTI3MFgxNjAw/z/McoAAOxyx-BSbX16/$(KGrHqYOKp0FJh4OkYmRBSb(15FmR!~~60_12.JPGhttp://i.ebayimg.com/t/Audiomaster-MLS-4-monitor-speakers-by-Epos-ES14-designer-Spendor-BC1-BBC-style-/00/s/MTAwN1gxNjAw/z/2zEAAOxysE5SbX1n/$T2eC16RHJGcFJly9k7i1BSb(1nD8Uw~~60_12.JPG

Nice! Can anyone call what the drivers in there are? (especially the bass) That's the closest I've seen to what's in my Armstrongs yet and I've got half an eye on trying to secure some spares at some point.

[Mike - H]

What do the Tannoy Aficionados think of the M20s at this level?

[Arkless Electronics]

The DM4's should easily see off the 15XR and the Mercury's in all but bass extension IMHO

[Mike - H]

I can't say I'd be surprised about the Mercury's, but everything I've heard about the 15XRs suggested they would be much better.

[walpurgis]

Nice! Can anyone call what the drivers in there are? (especially the bass) That's the closest I've seen to what's in my Armstrongs yet and I've got half an eye on trying to secure some spares at some point.

The drivers are Audax units by the look of them. Audiomaster used Audax across all their models apart from their version of the LS3/5a if I'm not mistaken.

[walpurgis]

The DM4's should easily see off the 15XR and the Mercury's in all but bass extension IMHO

Having owned a few pairs of DM4s and 15XRs, I'd say there's not much difference in ability between them and I wouldn't want to own either of them again (despite the 15XR being favoured on AOS). The DM2s are in a different league, but I wouldn't have a pair of those either (I hate Coles supertweeters, they're crap).

[Arkless Electronics]

IMHO the DM4 is in a completely different league to the Celestion! I remember well when the 15's were the BUDGET fave rave... The DM4 was about 3 times the price in real terms and is a very impressive speaker in terms of low colouration, good imaging etc.. If you want something that';s big, warm, woolly and inoffensive then the 15's are ok if they are cheap enough... I've got a couple of pairs with blown tweeters somewhere... may repair them for a laugh! I really rate the DM4....

[Mike - H]

It seems that none of the speakers I listed would be a significant improvement on what I’ve already got. So what would be? I’m quite patient, so if I need to save I will, at this point I don’t want to go much above £250 but if needs be could go higher after Christmas. I may put a bid in on the Audiomasters though they are a long way off, I don’t like trusting speakers to couriers. The guy I bought the DM4s off was upgrading? To Castle speakers, there are some nice looking Castle Warwick not very far from me?

[Effem]

Look out for a pair of JPW AP3s. Grossly underrated in my opinion and they are not fussy about placement, being an infinite baffle design.

There is a pair of AP2s in very nice condition on ebay which have smaller cabinets but don't give much away to the AP3s.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JPW-AP2-Loudspeakers-/161151619326?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item25856290fe

Look nice too so the missus shouldn't give you any grief :eyebrows:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JPW-AP2-Loudspeakers-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/plEAAMXQUmFShs27/$_12.JPG

[struth]

they are indeed a good speaker but you never seem to find any that don't need work alas or I,d have a pair

[istari_knight]

Hmm much differing of opinion as usual :D

As good as the JPW's are I wouldn't say they were any better than DM4's, just different. DM4's are very capable speakers and as Jez says in a completely different league to Ditton 15's which I found boxy, coloured & all round low-fi in my own system. I have also compared DM4 & DM2 side by side and would choose the DM4's all day long... Havent heard the D5 so cant comment on that :)

On a different note the pictures in that JPW listing show the early crossover used a 2nd order on the bass whereas my later version is a 1st order... Veeery interesting :hmm:

[walpurgis]

I would sooner own a pair of the original Mission 780SEs than any of the aforementioned speakers.

Those who have had these will know exactly what I'm getting at!

[Mike - H]

So what do I need to be looking at; to move on to the next level? Missed the fookin Audiomasters:doh: Should have put a snipe in, visitors who needs them.

[walpurgis]

So what do I need to be looking at; to move on to the next level?

That's down to your budget!

A pair of Tannoy DC1000s would be fun without breaking the bank.

[Mike - H]

Budget is a matter of time, if needs be. I have about 3-5 hundred at the moment, but will save if necessary.

[walpurgis]

A budget of £300 to £500 covers a lot of speaker choices, especially second hand.

These days I'm a dedicated Tannoy user and have been for many years. Entry level prices for decent ones are no longer cheap.

I'm sure some may recommend speakers like maybe Celestion Ditton 44s or B&W DM2s or even KEF 104ABs, which are pretty old models, but worthy in their own way and worth having if you don't spend too much.

Personally, if I was looking at makes other than Tannoy, I'd be very tempted by Sonus Faber speakers, I've never heard a bad pair and they definitely have a bit of magic about them, but used prices are getting silly. A pair of Electas will now cost around £800. Five years ago you'd have paid around £400, but even the little (but nice) Concertino will fetch over £400 today.

[Mike - H]

Cheers Geoff, most Tannoys are on the large side for my listening space, I suppose the only ones that might fit, if not the M20s would be the series 800s but they rarely come up for sale.

[walpurgis]

Yes, the System 800 is a lovely sounding speaker, with real depth and transparency. Not to mention the amazing imaging. The 98db sensitivity comes in handy too, a five watt amp will drive them. I've had a couple of pairs and still would have if I hadn't run out of room!

[Mike - H]

Just won some nice looking DM2s, really close so will pick up asap:D

[Mike - H]

The DM2s arrived today, they are in very good condition compared with my DM4s, when I took the grills off the cavities had some sort of foam inside which crumbled at first touch? I've listened to them for about an hour, gently warming them up, as the person I bought them of said they had not been used for a couple of years. They sound very nice, a bit more separation and clarity than my 4s BUT even for me they are a bit on the big side for my little room, so if I think they're too big SWMBO is going to be, shall we say displeased.

http://imageshack.com/a/img59/35/zs8o.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img440/6857/x0c6.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img197/3736/4mg3.jpg