View Full Version : Thing's GL75 Project
Thing Fish
14-03-2013, 12:12
My stacked platters are finally assembled and sounding fantastic.
I have the requisite platter rings on order and they should arrive any day now. Meanwhile I have put some black electrical tape round the top platter to lessen the hypnotic effect of the balance holes spinning round.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wMm9ZssvfVU/UUGyJiHnZAI/AAAAAAAABss/w-G590GCxDY/s600/lenco6.jpg
Only the new plinth to be added and the project will be complete.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lOTl_hXreJA/UUGyIeBufkI/AAAAAAAABsU/-YRlLHJeL3Q/s493/lenco3.jpg
Overall view of the room showing my new Spendor speakers. They may look too close to the rear wall but I have tried pulling them out and there is no real difference in soundstage.
They were a revelation when I first tried them. The first record I put on I was shocked! Where was the bass? I checked all connectors and phasing of the cables. Everything checked out. I decided to calm down and try another record. Then it happened. It was a pure 'bloody hell' moment. The bass was there it was just so much more natural. Vocals, drums and strings sound so much more real than with the Linn Keilidh's. Thank heaven I decided to take the plunge and buy these babies. They sound great with the Croft pre/power. I am now a definite Spendor/Harbeth convert.
Just for the record all speaker wires, jumpers and interconnects are Tellurium Q black. Which still need to be burnt in but sound fantastic already so there is only more enjoyment to come.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g6x-OJPCGMk/UUGyIbPzVUI/AAAAAAAABsk/YeENvfVOr7s/s600/lenco2.jpg
Nice one, Dave. I'm not surprised that it sounds good! Lovely looking room (but then I've told you that before), especially the way you have it lit, which looks warm and inviting.
I've never seen those wedge-shaped Spendies before - interesting! :)
Marco.
Thing Fish
14-03-2013, 12:52
Nice one, Dave. I'm not surprised that it sounds good! Lovely looking room (but then I've told you that before), especially the way you have it lit, which looks warm and inviting.
I've never seen those wedge-shaped Spendies before - interesting! :)
Marco.
I wasn't familiar with those Spendors either Marco so fired off an email to Spendor and received a reply from Rob Coe who very kindly attached the spec and a review of the speakers. Very nice chap. It gives me confidence in their company and as a result I will be happy to deal with them in the future.
Audio Al
14-03-2013, 14:11
Very nice room Dave , and some nice kit as well , Win Win ;)
RochaCullen
14-03-2013, 14:12
Very nice room. I love the setup.
:cool:
Rare Bird
14-03-2013, 14:14
Well Dave you certainly don't piss about when you say your gonna do something :D
I wasn't familiar with those Spendors either Marco so fired off an email to Spendor and received a reply from Rob Coe who very kindly attached the spec and a review of the speakers. Very nice chap. It gives me confidence in their company and as a result I will be happy to deal with them in the future.
Yup, I've chatted to Philip Swift a few times and he's always good to speak to. I can certainly relate to the synergy between Croft equipment and Spendors, as I ran the same preamp I'm using now once with SP100s, and it sounded sublime :)
How are you finding the transition from Linn gear to what you've got now? It must be like night and day! :eek:
Marco.
Great looking room Dave!!
After listening to my Technics for the past few weeks, my Lenco was re-installed temporarily in order to refresh my memory.
I have to say that it's making some very nice noises.
I might have to invest a bit more time and energy into tweaks and upgrades myself. :hmm:
Like how you put your record collection
Thing Fish
14-03-2013, 17:47
How are you finding the transition from Linn gear to what you've got now? It must be like night and day! :eek:
Marco.
More than night and day to be honest...:eek:
It still amazes me how a £100 turntable can blow away a Linn lp12 with lingo...:scratch: But that's just what it did. It absolutely blew it out the water no question.
Thing Fish
14-03-2013, 17:49
Like how you put your record collection
Thanks John, I built the shelves late last year. Not too shabby for a ham fisted amateur...:lol:
nice job dave, once you stack the platter on a lenco there's no going back :)
Thing Fish
15-03-2013, 00:39
nice job dave, once you stack the platter on a lenco there's no going back :)
You ain't kidding...:eek:
Rare Bird
15-03-2013, 12:40
Dave
The thing with stacking a 'GL75' platter is you have the ugly balancing drill holes showing. If you try find a 'GL70' platter they don't have em, you can then have the lip machined off the platter which will then turn it into what looks like a standard thick alloy platter, you still have ample diameter platter left ontop.
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 01:10
Dave
The thing with stacking a 'GL75' platter is you have the ugly balancing drill holes showing. If you try find a 'GL70' platter they don't have em, you can then have the lip machined off the platter which will then turn it into what looks like a standard thick alloy platter, you still have ample diameter platter left ontop.
Cheers Andre but now I have the platter rings on it looks pretty good.
The Grand Wazoo
16-03-2013, 01:16
It looks good Dave - the speakers too.
So why don't you tell the folks who might not know what the platter stacking trick is all about, how you did it and what changes it makes to the sound?
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 02:03
It looks good Dave - the speakers too.
So why don't you tell the folks who might not know what the platter stacking trick is all about, how you did it and what changes it makes to the sound?
Well the stacking of platters on an idler drive can help to further isolate the motor from the cartridge as the idler wheel is in direct contact with the bottom platter. It also delivers better prat and generally a better soundstage with clearer highs and firmer bass.
The first thing I noticed was how much more quiter the background became. In fact the first record I put on I thought something was wrong as I couldn't hear anything. I began checking the mute switch and volume when the first song started. I nearly shat myself...:lol: It really was that quite...:eek:
It's a relativly simple process. First off you need a spindle extension. I bought mine off a lovely chap from Finland via Lenco Heaven who has them machined especially for the Lenco. You simply gently tap it into the newly aquired top platter and then sit it over the existing spindle on the lower one. Simples...:) The fit is excellent and no play is evident.
Then you can add some rubber rings (as on the Garrard 401) to further reduce platter ring and cover up the pre drilled balance holes which are now visable on the upper platter.
You obviously have to raise the arm pillar and arm rest but that's not a problem on the Ittok.
I will add that you don't have to use a Lenco platter as the second one. Some run stacked platters with many different brands.
People that have been running stacked platters for years have checked their bearings and as yet no ill effects have been found. The motor is also well up to the job. Mine hits 33rpm within 2 revolutions.
For a relativly small outlay it's a pretty big upgrade and therefore in my book a no brainer...:eek:
The Grand Wazoo
16-03-2013, 02:08
....and to add to that slightly, you end up with a 7.4 kg platter!
Woo-hoooo!
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 02:12
....and to add to that slightly, you end up with a 7.4 kg platter!
Woo-hoooo!
Yea it sure is a weighty bugger Chris...:lol:
Stacked platters are certainly on my to do list. Lencos are fantastic things - for minimal outlay plus a bit of fettling, you can end up with something that punches WAY above its weight.
Cheers,
Keith
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 02:41
Here are some earlier pictures of the deck back in its early stages...
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KbXUx6hFCEY/UO2XDpzymII/AAAAAAAABjs/rYQbpuwe5-g/s600/IMG_2095.jpg
Off with the old and on with the new.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3HeGhDBYiaU/UO2XDidrY9I/AAAAAAAABjw/7paRDGe5uCk/s600/IMG_2100.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U69i6kW3a-4/UPQt39pHO1I/AAAAAAAABko/Pjg1eBfklGk/s600/IMG_0.jpg
Sounded better than you might think. Using diet coke I have heard will lead to thinner bass...:lol:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hP__3nbxgHc/UPl4HwhWbpI/AAAAAAAABm8/SGmU8-_CPh8/s800/IMG_2149.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TcYNdAk7rf0/UPl4LMVoFqI/AAAAAAAABnc/XzzymZDej_U/s800/IMG_2160.jpg
Bearing rebuilt and re oiled just to be sure.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OWYNNWmii-Q/UP6uchio5OI/AAAAAAAABpA/pZzUlGmI178/w703-h711-p-o-k/IMG_0369.JPG
Audio Al
16-03-2013, 02:54
Using diet coke I have heard will lead to thinner bass
It will sound sweeter with full fat coke ;)
Canetoad
16-03-2013, 09:38
What tonearm is that? :scratch:
wiicrackpot
16-03-2013, 09:41
What tonearm is that? :scratch:
Think it's an Ittok.
Yup, it's a 'Tik-Tok', as they were called in their day - bloody good tonearm, from the days when Linn were Linn!
Marco.
wiicrackpot
16-03-2013, 09:58
Yup, it's a 'Tik-Tok', as they were called in their day - bloody good tonearm, from the days when Linn were Linn!
Marco.
Aye...it works simply because it's Linn. :)
Showing my true colours now, once a Linnie, always a Linnie. :cool:
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 11:18
Yup corectamundo. Top one is an Ittok LV MkII and the bottom one is the standard Lenco arm.
It's the only Linn thing to survive the cull along with the Adikt...;)
Of all the bodges, this one looks good to me, the Ittok suiting the styling much better than the horrid (by now) and falling apart old Basik tonearms - sod the sonics :lol:
Be careful adding yet more mass to the main bearing. I appreciate you seem to have done a total refurb job on it, but the stock platter is heavy enough as it is, and the main thing for me in plinth construction would be to support the top plate over as much area under the platter as possible if you can. As standard (you know this already I know), the top plate sits either via it's curved-over edge and a couple of points (early GL75) or via springs (later ones) and you may find this less than ideal. The stock mat is surprisingly good for this deck I think, although I haven't tried the Funk mat and similar, which may give better bass reproduction possibly.
Glad you like the sound.
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 12:00
Of all the bodges, this one looks good to me, the Ittok suiting the styling much better than the horrid (by now) and falling apart old Basik tonearms - sod the sonics :lol:
Be careful adding yet more mass to the main bearing. I appreciate you seem to have done a total refurb job on it, but the stock platter is heavy enough as it is, and the main thing for me in plinth construction would be to support the top plate over as much area under the platter as possible if you can. As standard (you know this already I know), the top plate sits either via it's curved-over edge and a couple of points (early GL75) or via springs (later ones) and you may find this less than ideal. The stock mat is surprisingly good for this deck I think, although I haven't tried the Funk mat and similar, which may give better bass reproduction possibly.
Glad you like the sound.
Yes David as you state I have already made provision for the base pan and main bearing housing to be supported in the new plinth and as you say the stock mat is the best option and for that reason is still being employed.
Those that have already been running stacked platters for some years now have reported no ill effects on the main bearing (even in a standard plinth) thus far. Built them to last in those days...:lol:
OK, and I believe the bearing sleeves can be easily replaced if necessary ;)
Rare Bird
16-03-2013, 17:35
Someone on Lenco Heaven makes new bearing housings if you provide the original bearing shaft but i guess Thingy Dave already knows this..
Lovely room and system Dave and from your photo the rack and TT shelf look to be identical to mine. One teeny concern though, the wee guitar in the corner compliments the look of the room beautifully, but don't you find that it resonates at certain frequencies when you are listening to stuff?
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 20:00
One teeny concern though, the wee guitar in the corner compliments the look of the room beautifully, but don't you find that it resonates at certain frequencies when you are listening to stuff?
That's my genuine 1950's Hofner parlour guitar and I haven't heard a peep out of it yet...:scratch:
I don't listen at high volume levels though as it confuses my brain...:lol:
There are a number of options for new bearings on LH, but most on there believe the standard bearing is well able to take the strain of 2 platters. I use an L75 platter as the 2nd platter on my GL59 (L70).
The spindle extensions aren't exactly cheap but it's a no brainer. Like I said before, you'll never go back - clarity of imaging and soundstage is just so much improved.
Thing Fish
16-03-2013, 20:33
There are a number of options for new bearings on LH, but most on there believe the standard bearing is well able to take the strain of 2 platters. I use an L75 platter as the 2nd platter on my GL59 (L70).
Exactly Paul. Why spend more money if it works well enough as is. There is nothing to worry about stacking platters with the original bearing. Unless everyone that runs stacked platters is lying...:eyebrows:
How much do the platters weigh?
How much do the platters weigh?
3kg each, I think.
Cheers,
Keith
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 00:38
I 'm pretty sure it's 4 kgs Keith.
The Grand Wazoo
17-03-2013, 00:55
3.7kg
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 00:56
3.7kg
According to the owners manual it weighs 9lbs which is 4.08 kgs.
http://www.radio-workshop.co.uk/goldring-manual.shtml
The Grand Wazoo
17-03-2013, 01:12
Oh, OK - I stand corrected.
Perhaps the G99 platter is a little lighter then? It has machining for strobe markings but I don't think that would remove a pound in weight, especially as it's slightly offset by the fact that the balancing holes are filled in the G99.
Ok thanks.
Was wondering if 1 platter and a copper mat might get a similar effect?
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 01:35
Ok thanks.
Was wondering if 1 platter and a copper mat might get a similar effect?
You don't have to use 2 x lenco platters Stu. There have been many projects that have utalised platters off diferent decks, acrylic, glass and the like and various different mats.
What we are trying to achieve is mass. Someone even tried 3 x lenco platters...:lol: It did look a bit tall but it was an experiment.
I don't know how heavy the copper mat is but it may be worth trying?
If you have another turntable platter availiable just lay it on top of the Lenco one and have a listen. I tried with my LP12 platter that's how I initially knew it was the path I wanted to take.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c4F2bGjrBek/UP7YIK-dE7I/AAAAAAAABpY/wHqcQfYclF0/s800/IMG_0370.JPG
I chose to use 2 x Lenco platters just for convenience and the fact I got one off fleabay for £9.99.
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 01:37
Oh, OK - I stand corrected.
Perhaps the G99 platter is a little lighter then? It has machining for strobe markings but I don't think that would remove a pound in weight, especially as it's slightly offset by the fact that the balancing holes are filled in the G99.
Not sure Chris. I'd weigh one of mine but I don't have any bathroom scales at present...:)
The Grand Wazoo
17-03-2013, 01:39
I've never owned a set of bathroom scales - maybe that's why I'm a fat bastard?!
I 'm pretty sure it's 4 kgs Keith.
Aye, 3kg was from memory. Now I'm back home, I've popped my GL75 platter on the kitchen scales - and it weighs in at 3.8kg.
Ok thanks.
Was wondering if 1 platter and a copper mat might get a similar effect?
Dave's right, you can use anything - I think I read on LH that someone makes the kind of heavy mat you've suggested above as an alternative to a 2nd platter, or for those who don't like the idea of an overly tall platter.
I've currently got my standard Lenco mat sitting in between my 2 platters, the spindle extension gives you quite a bit of extra height to experiment with.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c4F2bGjrBek/UP7YIK-dE7I/AAAAAAAABpY/wHqcQfYclF0/s800/IMG_0370.JPG
I chose to use 2 x Lenco platters just for convenience and the fact I got one off fleabay for £9.99.
Looks good, Dave, but there's not a lot of spindle clearance there! :eek:
Marco.
Rare Bird
17-03-2013, 09:17
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c4F2bGjrBek/UP7YIK-dE7I/AAAAAAAABpY/wHqcQfYclF0/s800/IMG_0370.JPG
Thats the effect you would get with a 'L70' platter with rim machined orf
I'm still not sure the hardness of the stock bearing could take the extra mass. What exactly is to be achieved by stacking platters?
Wouldn't you get a similar effect with a little resistance added in series with the motor? When HiFi Sound tried it with the G99 back in 1968, the motor noise reduced by 10db or so and torque wasn't adversely affected, the "kick" on startup being beneficially reduced a little. Sonically, I never heard it sound worse when I tried it... Just a thought.
walpurgis
17-03-2013, 11:44
My thoughts too. The bearing will be taking a lot of stress and any wear will aggravate this.
I'm only saying this because the stock Lenco bearing was designed economically for the mass it had to carry and no more, in a similar way to the stock Techie bearing. No point at all in over-engineering this part and in any case, many old Lencos with much the same bearing design and platter mass are still reasonably ok after 50 years or more use. I'm probably just being over-cautious, as is my wont, but beefing up the top plate, or properly coupling as much of it as possible to the plinth structure, may be a better first step for sonics?
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 12:15
I'm still not sure the hardness of the stock bearing could take the extra mass. What exactly is to be achieved by stacking platters?
Wouldn't you get a similar effect with a little resistance added in series with the motor? When HiFi Sound tried it with the G99 back in 1968, the motor noise reduced by 10db or so and torque wasn't adversely affected, the "kick" on startup being beneficially reduced a little. Sonically, I never heard it sound worse when I tried it... Just a thought.
I explained all this a few pages ago, but if you're interested and you obviously are or you wouldn't have commented, have a read of this - http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=6702.0
It go's some way to explain why...:)
Thing Fish
17-03-2013, 12:16
My thoughts too. The bearing will be taking a lot of stress and any wear will aggravate this.
As I mentioned before, nobody running stacked platters (some for many years) have had any bearing problems...:)
Hi, I have played around with Lencos for a few years and have tried stock stacked Lenco platters,
Personaly i didnt find any great benifit from it compared to a thick rubber L78 mat. From a mass point of view i believe 1 platter is more than adequate.
Some say Idler noise transfer to the platter is reduced by stacked platters, but i didnt find this to be the case, perhaps due to extra loading on the drive system and bearing, or perhaps just down to my cloth ears.
I do however use an acrylic gyro platter stacked on the Lenco platter, weight under 2kg, this did change the souind quite a lot, the addition of a record clamp improved things further. Perhaps a simple acrylic mat would have the same sonic effect, dunno, i must try one.
The top bush in the standard Lenco bearing can and does wear, so make sure your deck is of course spot on level.
Heres a shot of my uprated bearing effort with longer sleaves.http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/velvetsunrise/Picture012.jpg
Thing Fish
18-03-2013, 07:55
As we all know Steve sound is a very subjective subject. One man's CD is another mans mug mat and all that...
I can hear the difference stacked platters make quite a lot as you say you didn't. Hey ho.
I suppose it's a blessing we are all different...:)
I have seen various bearing upgrades and it may be something I will look into should the need arise but thus far all seems to be running as it should.
Hi Dave, not meaning to critsize in any way.
Yep, thats very true, sound is a VERY subjective subject
Love the Tiktok. I am a huge Zappa fan too!
Happy listening:)
My stacked platters are finally assembled and sounding fantastic.
I have the requisite platter rings on order and they should arrive any day now. Meanwhile I have put some black electrical tape round the top platter to lessen the hypnotic effect of the balance holes spinning round.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wMm9ZssvfVU/UUGyJiHnZAI/AAAAAAAABss/w-G590GCxDY/s600/lenco6.jpg
Only the new plinth to be added and the project will be complete.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lOTl_hXreJA/UUGyIeBufkI/AAAAAAAABsU/-YRlLHJeL3Q/s493/lenco3.jpg
Overall view of the room showing my new Spendor speakers. They may look too close to the rear wall but I have tried pulling them out and there is no real difference in soundstage.
They were a revelation when I first tried them. The first record I put on I was shocked! Where was the bass? I checked all connectors and phasing of the cables. Everything checked out. I decided to calm down and try another record. Then it happened. It was a pure 'bloody hell' moment. The bass was there it was just so much more natural. Vocals, drums and strings sound so much more real than with the Linn Keilidh's. Thank heaven I decided to take the plunge and buy these babies. They sound great with the Croft pre/power. I am now a definite Spendor/Harbeth convert.
Just for the record all speaker wires, jumpers and interconnects are Tellurium Q black. Which still need to be burnt in but sound fantastic already so there is only more enjoyment to come.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g6x-OJPCGMk/UUGyIbPzVUI/AAAAAAAABsk/YeENvfVOr7s/s600/lenco2.jpg
Wish I could have a hifi in my living room! nice system mate.
Thing Fish
18-03-2013, 18:32
Thanks David and many thanks again for setting me up with the Tellurium Q Black. Not sure how long burn in time might be:scratch: but even at the moment it's sounding bloody great...:eek:
Rare Bird
18-03-2013, 18:37
Wish I could have a hifi in my living room! nice system mate.
I can't wait to get out into my new man cave.
Thing Fish
18-03-2013, 18:42
30-50 hours is the norm
Thanks David.
Thing Fish
18-03-2013, 18:44
I can't wait to get out into my new man cave.
All men (or women) need a bolt hole to do stuff alone...:eyebrows:
All men (or women) need a bolt hole to do stuff alone...:eyebrows:
They certainly do but don't forget to lock the door ;)
Sneaked a system back indoors at he weekend when the wife went out, already getting grief to get it removed :doh:
Rare Bird
18-03-2013, 23:16
:lolsign:
I don't have that kinda problems we have ladders to get in bed, it's sat on boxes full of reel to reel tapes :D
Nice 75 David. I sold my LP12/Lingo/Trampolin last year as I preferred my Lenco. They are wondrous objects of joy. :)
Thing Fish
24-03-2013, 01:54
Nice 75 David. I sold my LP12/Lingo/Trampolin last year as I preferred my Lenco. They are wondrous objects of joy. :)
Hi Steven, I was quite taken aback at how a £100 Lenco could blow away a £1800 Linn/Lingo but truth is it did and not by a small margin...!!!
I loved my LP12 and had it for 21 years but the moment I plugged in my GL75 it was gone.
Somehow it was more musical. Figure from that what you will?
but that's was how it was...!
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