Paging the tube rolling experts! [Archive]

julesd68

13-03-2013, 14:38

I'm trying to get the best out of a recently acquired Conrad-Johnson phono stage which has the following stock tubes -

2 x 12AX7 / ECC83 - labelled "Yugoslavia"
1 x 5751- JAN made in USA
1 x 12AU7 / ECC82 - "Yugoslavia"

Could I have some tube recommendations please? I really don't know about the different characteristics from different makers.

Maybe some "cost no object" suggestions and then something a bit more modest to look out for.

The stage has superb dynamics, resolution and slam. But I'm finding just a hint of coarseness which I suspect is down to the stock tubes and think that I must be able to do better, despite what the CJ literature says!! I would like something just a little bit "sweeter" without wanting to go too cuddly, warm and soft … Definitely want to preserve the excellent dynamics.

I've read that JAN Philips would be a good choice to put throughout, so I could keep the 5751 and change the other three.

In my Puresound P10 I have gold-pin JJ's which were good.

Thoughts?

Thanking you.

brian2957

13-03-2013, 14:42

I will be watching this thread with interest Julian as I've recently started using a dared valve amp with 2 x 12AU7 and 2 x 12AX7 valves . I have a couple of valves winging their way to me courtesy of Jerry ( jandle100 ) . I will pass on my findings on this thread mate.

julesd68

13-03-2013, 15:06

Great stuff Brian - let the toob rolling games commence!

brian2957

13-03-2013, 15:09

daytona600

13-03-2013, 16:14

www.r-type.org good source of info
or watfordvalves good prices for new versions
old NOS new old stock can get pricey or try valve dampers/rings
or modern shugang psvane or black treasure or tj full music

brian for 6L6Goutput tubes - mullard , tung-sol , brimar , sylvania and others

nat8808

13-03-2013, 20:35

Did you buy the one I noticed on ebay? Obviously you won't know which one I noticed on ebay... was a couple of weeks ago perhaps?

Looked nice - had a few upgraded caps etc

nat8808

13-03-2013, 20:42

My only observations of pre tubes are that Mullard appear to be quite rich and lush. Could lack a little energy though for some..

Got some in a possibly DIY pre (but good DIY) which is pre-CD days so they go into a really sweet treble distortion with 2V input which is a beautiful sound in itself - just one for the studio not the hifi.

brian2957

13-03-2013, 21:10

julesd68

13-03-2013, 21:27

Did you buy the one I noticed on ebay?

Do you mean me or Brian?? :scratch:

Ali Tait

13-03-2013, 21:40

Check out Ebay for Russian 6p3s-e Brian, very good for the money. NOS Reflektor would be the best of these probably.

brian2957

13-03-2013, 21:51

Cheers buddy I'll have a look.

brian2957

16-03-2013, 11:06

Right here goes . Firstly let me point out that I am new to this valve amp thing so I am certainly no expert . Secondly I believe that different results may be achieved using these valves with different amps so nothing is written in stone ( as is usually the case in all things hifi).I recently purchased a dared I30 which I am thoroughly enjoying . However my curiosity got the better of me and I decided to dip my toe in the water and buy some replacement valves . The 12AU7 and 12AX7 valves on the dared had no makers name on them , only printing on them is 'Made in China ' so this makes comparisons nigh on impossible .
The replacement valves have been in the amp since yesterday so may require some settling in . I can post initial impressions here , but may update this later though.
Firstly I fitted these :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220858716253?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
As I have already stated , these are new valves so require some settling in . Initial impression was however increased soundstage , but a softer sound with loss of sparkle / bite . Bass took on a wooly characteristic which may get better with use.
I followed this by fitting these :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-matched-pair-USED-12AU7-by-TUNGSOL-both-tested-V-G-/330880957638?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=FBtDCunpQegvNiMFmEkE%252BZDOeEQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
which I had read good things about on the web. Result was a much better tonal balance . Possibly a bit bass heavy , however bass is very deep , clean and musical . Slightly smaller soundstage but much more focus and power. All in all , a significant improvement over the valves which came with the amp. I'm a bit of a 'pipe and slippers ' guy so the sound of the amp as it stands is really growing on me and I'm really quite pleased with the results so far.
Jerry ( jandl100 ) has very kindly sent me some valves to try . These are :
JAN Philips 5963 (12AU7 replacements ) and Amperex 12AU7s which I will be trying this afternoon . I hope to post on these and any other updates later today.
As a novice here I welcome any corrections or advice from any of you experts out there . (:

Edit at 13.50 . Been playing around with the Jan Philips 5963 ( 12AU7 ) valves for the last couple of hours , and what a surprise . They are totally and different from the Tung-Sol equivalents . These are a very 'lively' set of tubes . Soundstage is as good as the others and bass is clean , clear and crisp , although a little lightweight for my liking .
If you felt your system needed a little ' lift ' I have no doubt that these Philips valves would be just what the doctor ordered . However , I believe that music should be there to relax to and these valves are just a little bit too 'fast' for me.

Edit at 15.15 Last but not least , the Amperex 12AU7A valves. For me the best of the day . Smooth , detailed and punchy .These tubes are very easy on the ears without being too laid back. With good clean , deep bass , detail by the bucketload , and a very natural sound . Soundstage was also the best of the tubes I tried . All in all a very nice set of valves which I didn't want to unplug from the amp . But heyho got to send them back to Jerry who kindly loaned them to me ( thanks again Jerry ). I guess I'll have to do some more overtime . What a nice way to spend a Saturday afternoon . Better than getting dragged round the bliddy shops (:
As ever I'm open to suggestions and recommendations from the members here.

daytona600

17-03-2013, 17:17

Ah the joys of tube rolling brian , you can,t do that with your mosfets in a SS amp

Ali Tait

17-03-2013, 17:29

I find Amperex a very nice valve. Bugle Boys are not cheap but probably the best I've tried so far.

Ali Tait

17-03-2013, 17:31

Telefunken are very good too, though again not cheap, unfortunately all the best NOS valves are pricey!

Ali Tait

17-03-2013, 17:35

Brian, I don't have any '83's, but can send you some 82's to try if you like.

brian2957

17-03-2013, 18:13

That would be great buddy . Wotcha got :) I'm trying to establish an upgrade path with this amp so I know what to buy when I have the money . Cheers mate.

Marco

17-03-2013, 18:24

My only observations of pre tubes are that Mullard appear to be quite rich and lush. Could lack a little energy though for some..

Yup, but there are Mullards, and their are Mullards... I use these in the Croft - rich and lush they ain't! These babies are, IMO, the finest 12AX7/ECC83s money can buy, and sound expansive, dynamic, hugely detailed, with a midrange to die for - and oh so musical:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8446/2050m2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/2050m2.jpg/)

Not cheap, though... http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1961_Prem_CV4004_Whyteleafe _p/2050m.htm

However, such is the construction quality, they'll likely outlive you or I! ;)

Marco.

Ali Tait

17-03-2013, 18:41

That would be great buddy . Wotcha got :) I'm trying to establish an upgrade path with this amp so I know what to buy when I have the money . Cheers mate.

I'll have a look. Have some Mullards, Sylvania and Telefunken.

brian2957

17-03-2013, 18:43

Would love to try the Mullard and the Sylvania tubes mate . Maybe the Telefunken at a later date if possible . Don't want to confuse meself ( which isn't hard BTW (: )

Ali Tait

17-03-2013, 18:47

Sure, PM your address.

brian2957

17-03-2013, 18:49

Excellent mate you have PM .

julesd68

17-03-2013, 19:01

These babies are, IMO, the finest 12AX7/ECC83s money can buy, and sound expansive, dynamic, hugely detailed, with a midrange to die for - and oh so musical

Thanks for that Marco - I will have to work up to these ...

What else have you tried in your Croft? Telefunken?

brian2957

17-03-2013, 19:03

And I will have to work more hours Julian :lol: . Thanks Marco BTW .

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:07

Thanks for that Marco - I will have to work up to these ...

What else have you tried in your Croft? Telefunken?

Lol... More like what have I not tried, mate - you name it! I've been rolling new and NOS ECC83s in amps for about 5 years :eyebrows:

Teles are nice, but *can* sound a little cold and 'matter of fact', in some systems. Excellent detail retrieval, though. Typical 'German sound'.

Marco.

brian2957

17-03-2013, 19:11

Which tubes do you gents think should be given more attention . The ECC82 or the ECC83 valves , or do they demand equal attention ?

julesd68

17-03-2013, 19:13

So put us out of our misery and tell us what to buy if we can't afford your Mullards!! Please. :eyebrows:

brian2957

17-03-2013, 19:15

Yeah me too :)

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:17

So put us out of our misery and tell us what to buy if we can't afford your Mullards!! Please.

It's VERY system-dependent, Julian. What type of sound are you after? Describe the tonal balance of your system - does it err towards the bright or warm side?

:)

Marco.

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:19

Which tubes do you gents think should be given more attention . The ECC82 or the ECC83 valves , or do they demand equal attention ?

They're not interchangeable in the same circuit, Brian. 82s are lower gain, and 83s are higher gain. Apart from that, they're essentially the same valve.

Marco.

julesd68

17-03-2013, 19:21

brian2957

17-03-2013, 19:23

Understood Marco. Sorry for not making myself clear .What I meant was would you replace the ECC83 valves with high quality ones first , or the ECC82s first . Or are they equally important ?

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:28

Depends where they are in the circuit and what they're doing :)

Marco.

brian2957

17-03-2013, 19:34

Not sure mate . This is my first foray into the world of valves . I think that they are pre amp valves :rolleyes: Need to do more reading though.

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:40

Gosh that's a really difficult question since I've completely changed everything!
And I've got the 1210 to set up this week!!

Used to be definitely on the warm side but now I have the Tannoys and CJ phono stage, I think I'm in "neutral" territory with a hint of warmth. Nothing worse than a bright system IMO - I would have to throw it out the window ... :lol:

Indeed! Do you mind importing stuff from the States? If not, I'd go for these Brimars, as I suspect that they're exactly what you need (they're rather like the Mullards, in terms of sonic presentation):

http://www.tubemonger.com/Brimar_CV4035_NOS_Late_60s_Prem_CV4004_STC_England _p/2014m.htm

If you can't stretch to those, go for the Tungsrams: http://www.tubemonger.com/Tungsram_AUG_1972_ECC83_12AX7_Hungary_MPs_Singles_ p/1136.htm

Those are also superb!

I've used this guy loads of times and his stuff is ALWAYS top-notch. All tubes are always thoroughly tested and matched, and he's really well organised and superb to deal with. Mention that you know me and that I gave you the recommendation :)

Marco.

julesd68

17-03-2013, 19:54

Mention that you know me and I gave you the recommendation :)

But I thought he'd banned you Marco! :rfl:

No probs buying from the US at all - many thanks, will make a note of these ...

Last week I managed to bag a NOS 6H30P "supertube" for my amp - only £50. I did my research on how to spot the fake ones, so hopefully I've got a good 'un - not had time to try it yet. There's plenty of fakes around on ebay for sky-high prices, so please be careful anyone who's looking for these ...

Marco

17-03-2013, 19:59

Lol - he should be offering me shares in his business with the amount of money I've spent! :eyebrows:

Honestly, though, of all the NOS tube sellers on the 'Net, IMO, Tubemonger is the best. He's very selective of what he sells, and considering the quality and rarity of some of the tubes, the prices are reasonable, compared to some!

The Tungsrams or Brimars should be right up your street :)

Marco.

julesd68

17-03-2013, 20:08

julesd68

17-03-2013, 23:48

Interesting article here for us novices ...

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AX7

goraman

18-03-2013, 06:18

I just ordered some Genulex Gold lion B759/12AX7 and got a good deal, there are 4 left not sold.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400432278965?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Marco

18-03-2013, 07:05

Interesting article here for us novices ...

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AX7

Interesting (and more than a little entertaining), but also full of gross generalisations and more than a few exaggerations! ;)

Marco.

julesd68

18-03-2013, 09:18

Look at the way premium tube prices have shot up since that article in 1999 -
I was looking at a Raytheon 5751 which used to be available for around $18 - a decent one of these is $98 on ebay!

Ali Tait

18-03-2013, 10:12

Aye, supply and demand, there's only so many left unfortunately.

Marco

18-03-2013, 10:32

Bear in mind also that 5751s have less gain than 12AX7s, so as good as they may sound (if you like them), they might not be ideal in some systems.

Marco.

julesd68

18-03-2013, 14:40

I'm replacing a manufacturer supplied set of stock tubes Marco - 2 x 12AX7, 1 x 12AU7, 1 x 5751

Marco

18-03-2013, 14:45

That's cool, Jules. I stated what I did for the benefit of anyone who was under the misapprehension that a 5751 was a drop-in replacement for a 12AX7 :)

Marco.

julesd68

18-03-2013, 14:56

Indeed - it's all a bit of a head-fk initially ...

brian2957

18-03-2013, 15:00

+1 . Amen to that Julian :lol:

Thanks for the information Marco.

Marco

18-03-2013, 15:07

No worries, chaps :smoking:

Marco.

goraman

18-03-2013, 19:14

Is a 5751 also a direct replacement for a 12AT7?
I seem to remember hearing that.

goraman

19-03-2013, 05:52

Forgive me answering my own question but I thought others may want to read this.
http://cydathria.com/fdm/12AX7_sub.html

Marco

19-03-2013, 07:06

Interesting, Geoff. Thanks for sharing :)

Marco.

NRG

19-03-2013, 13:39

Forgive me answering my own question but I thought others may want to read this.
http://cydathria.com/fdm/12AX7_sub.html

No, but yes, but no....theres a bit more to it than gain, that site is not strictly correct. The output impedance for one will also be different between valves and different again depending on how the circuit sets up the operating conditions for the valve....what suits one valve may not suit another....certainly for identical performance...so depending on the circuit a valve is plugged into, substituting an 'alternative' will alter its performance because the characteristics are different.

Much better to check the Duncan Tube database for near identical replacements:

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php

Marco

19-03-2013, 17:35

I'm replacing a manufacturer supplied set of stock tubes Marco - 2 x 12AX7, 1 x 12AU7, 1 x 5751

Jules, if you're still looking for some nice 5751s, I'd bag these, as they are very good:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-NATIONAL-GE-USA-5751-12AX7-UNUSED-TUBES-/160993411554?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item257bf481e2

You don't always get them matched and it'll also give you a spare! :)

These would also be very good 12AX7/ECC83s: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-Pair-TUNGSRAM-ECC83-12AX7-TESTED-TUBES-08-/151005346749?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item23289ebbbd

Marco.

synsei

19-03-2013, 17:39

My amp is fitted with NOS Mullard ECC88's, which others would be compatible as these are expensive to replace?

goraman

19-03-2013, 18:13

No, but yes, but no....theres a bit more to it than gain, that site is not strictly correct. The output impedance for one will also be different between valves and different again depending on how the circuit sets up the operating conditions for the valve....what suits one valve may not suit another....certainly for identical performance...so depending on the circuit a valve is plugged into, substituting an 'alternative' will alter its performance because the characteristics are different.

Much better to check the Duncan Tube database for near identical replacements:

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php

I would not have guessed that,but I could see how output impedance could play hell with frequency response. It would have a huge affect on the over all tone.

julesd68

19-03-2013, 18:22

Jules, if you're still looking for some nice 5751s, I'd bag these, as they are very good:

Thanks for thinking of me Marco!

Have you bought from that seller? His 6N30P supertubes look very suspect to me!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-6N30P-DR-6H30-Pi-SUPER-TUBES-UNUSED-TESTED-/151014946840?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2329313818

Marco

19-03-2013, 18:30

Suspect in what way, Jules?

Nope - not bought from him before, but that may change soon, as he has some stuff that interests me. He seems very efficient, as I've been exchanging messages with him :)

Marco.

julesd68

19-03-2013, 18:45

I did quite a bit of research into the 6H30P supertubes as there are a lot of fakes (mainly based on cheap Sovteks I think) on ebay, most of which come from Eastern Europe ...

From what I have read, one of the tell tale signs is lots of markings on the flaps like on the attachment here - nb this is not taken from the ad you mention. An original should have totally clean flaps with no markings ... Now I am not making an accusation here, but am being just a little cautious, as to my eyes there are similarities!

I have attached a pic of a genuine supertube aswell - you can clearly see the difference.

Marco

19-03-2013, 18:48

Interesting... I know nothing about the 6H30P supertubes, as I have no use for them. However, the tubes he's got that I'm interested in seem genuine, as indeed do the 5751s and Tungsram 12AX7s, from his site, I linked to earlier :)

Marco.

synsei

19-03-2013, 19:22

My amp is fitted with NOS Mullard ECC88's, which others would be compatible as these are expensive to replace?

Jules, apologies for asking this question in your thread but the subject matter seemed appropriate to me, are you okay with it or would you prefer me to begin my own thread? Kinda feeling like the guy who farted in the lift here due to the icy silence my question engendered from those who should know... :scratch:

Marco

19-03-2013, 19:28

Soz, Dave. I only know about valves that I use, and I don't use ECC88s, so don't think I'm ignoring you! ;)

Ali Tait or Neal, amongst others, should be able to help :)

Marco.

julesd68

19-03-2013, 19:35

Jules, apologies for asking this question in your thread but the subject matter seemed appropriate to me, are you okay with it or would you prefer me to begin my own thread?

Very gentlemanly of you to ask! No probs from me but you might get more response if you start a thread specific to the ECC88 - your call mate ... :)

synsei

19-03-2013, 19:38

Very gentlemanly of you to ask! No probs from me but you might get more response if you start a thread specific to the ECC88 - your call mate ... :)

I'll give it a go. Still have a lot to learn re: tubes, so not always certain what to ask, which is why I was following your thread with interest ;)

synsei

19-03-2013, 19:43

Soz, Dave. I only know about valves I use, and I don't use ECC88s, so don't think I'm ignoring you! ;)

Ali Tait or Neal, amongst others, should be able to help :)

Marco.

I haven't asked about them before Marco as I thought they were ECC83's and there is plenty of information all over the shop regarding these valves. I removed all the valves from the Valhalla yesterday to find the small ones were ECC88's and that there is precious little information I can find on t'internet. I asked the question because I thought they might be better known by another ident :)

Anyway, I will begin a new thread as it will be easier to find for anyone else who needs to know stuff about these...

Ali Tait

19-03-2013, 19:49

You could try Mullard E88cc, which is a higher quality ecc88, though they are not cheap. Equivalents are 6DJ8, 6922 or E188CC. Try searching on the bay and see what comes up, should be lots of choice.

The Grand Wazoo

19-03-2013, 19:50

There should be lots about it & its equivalents Dave - try looking for 6DJ8 and 6922 as well.

julesd68

19-03-2013, 19:53

There is good info on 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 here - it's right at the bottom of the page ...

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#12AX7

synsei

19-03-2013, 19:54

Excellent, cheers chaps ;)

goraman

19-03-2013, 20:57

Dave
I liked the JJ gold pins and Electo Haemonix gold pins over nos Phillips and others.
Genulex makes a Gold Lion version now and Tad may also.
The 6922 is a fanttastic tube so it is haed to go completely wrong with any choice.

Marco

19-03-2013, 21:04

Yo Ali,

Love it! I presume that's for the benefit of a certain geriatric firestarter we know? :D

Marco.

Ali Tait

19-03-2013, 21:15

:D well apparently I'm part of the Scottish Mafia, so thought I'd advertise the fact!

Marco

19-03-2013, 21:36

Lol... You are, in the La-la land that he inhabits! :mental:

Marco.

Ali Tait

19-03-2013, 23:05

Aye, we're apparently all shills for MCRU.

Marco

19-03-2013, 23:21

Sing along now, sweety:

'Shill-shillery, shill-shillery, shill-shill, sheroo...' You know the tune!

BGCmVDl46rY

:eyebrows: :D

Marco.

Ali Tait

19-03-2013, 23:28

:lol:

julesd68

19-03-2013, 23:48

'Shill-shillery, shill-shillery, shill-shill, sheroo...' You know the tune!

My thread's getting crapped on here but who cares, that's very funny ... :rfl:

julesd68

21-03-2013, 17:24

Gents, I notice that there are many different tube testers used by different sellers. Does it matter what kit they are testing on? And do the test results merely tell you how much life the tubes have left?

Ali Tait

21-03-2013, 18:21

Good question. Unless the tester in question is properly calibrated, the results are going to be pretty meaningless really.

In any case, I wouldn't worry too much about valves being very closely matched. Even if you buy them perfectly matched, they will drift as they burn in.

brian2957

21-03-2013, 18:24

Hi Don MacCorlione :eyebrows: , if the valves don't match what percentage of a difference is acceptable ?

Ali Tait

21-03-2013, 18:55

Aye nae bad MacScarface. Have a read of this mate, should answer your questions.

http://www.thetubestore.com/Power-Tube-Matching

brian2957

21-03-2013, 19:01

This is good stuff buddy . Should be of interest to a few valve newbies here .
Thanks from the GYT ( Glesga Young Team )

Ali Tait

21-03-2013, 19:36

Shure that's not the Goodfellas Young Team?

brian2957

21-03-2013, 19:45

:lol:

Marco

21-03-2013, 21:05

Shut it, or the Spaghetti-Hoop Stoaters will chib ye!! Watch oot fur the Bruschetta Bawbags, mind - they're pure mental :uhho:

Marco.

brian2957

21-03-2013, 21:10

You're just a bampot big man . Shut yer geggie ya eejit . We ken how tae deal wi toerags like you . It's a good boot in the arse yer needin :)

Marco

21-03-2013, 21:19

We ken how tae deal wi toerags like you...

Ken? Ye sound like a glaechit choochter, ya roaster! :lol:

Choochters bile ma pish, especially yon dunderheids fae Dunfermline. They stoaters huvnae goat a scooby. Toon Tongs, ya bass! :D

Marco.

Ali Tait

21-03-2013, 21:21

Naw, nae scooby, got an Alfa instead.

Marco

21-03-2013, 21:22

Nice wan, wee man. Ah drive a hearse! :eyebrows:

Marco.

brian2957

21-03-2013, 21:25

Worked in Falkirk by the sea for too many years ye ken :eyebrows: . But am really a Glesga man ya big dumplin :D Yer aff yer heid by the way. Ah drive ma wifie tae distraction (:

Ali Tait

21-03-2013, 21:25

Aye, ah can just seeye in a top hat!

brian2957

21-03-2013, 21:29

mair like a black bunnet :lol:

julesd68

21-03-2013, 22:23

I iz goin' 2 by dis innit -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281081138071?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#rpdId

brian2957

21-03-2013, 22:59

Excellent Julian , please let us know how you get on with these .

Marco

22-03-2013, 07:07

Nice wan, Jooley. Yon'll be crackin' wee choobs! :)

Marco.

brian2957

22-03-2013, 10:11

Aye fandabydozy :) ( shangalang an a' rat )

julesd68

22-03-2013, 10:35

Now ordered! :)

Once I've tried the 5751 I'm going to buy Tunsgram 12AX7 and 12AU7. By all accounts these are really good value tubes that won't break the bank. I can then work my way up to something more exotic like Bugle Boys, Brimar & Mullard etc

brian2957

22-03-2013, 10:56

A friend uses Tungsram and Siemens valves although I can't remember which . They are NOS and sound very good indeed . I was quite taken with the Amperex valves which Jerry ( jandl100 ) loaned me , although they weren't the Bugle Boy version . I'm currently using new Tung Sol 12AX7 and older 12AU7 valves at the moment and I'm very pleased with them .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220858716253?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-matched-pair-USED-12AU7-by-TUNGSOL-both-tested-V-G-/330880957638?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=FBtDCunpQegvNiMFmEkE%252BZDOeEQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Please let us know how you get on Julian.

Ali Tait

22-03-2013, 11:17

Bugle Boys are the best 82's I've tried so far.

julesd68

22-03-2013, 11:42

Defo on my shortlist - not cheap for a matched pair but something to look forward to .. :)

brian2957

22-03-2013, 11:55

According to this you don't need matched pairs for pre amp valves Julian . Might be worth considering .
http://www.thetubestore.com/Power-Tube-Matching

julesd68

22-03-2013, 12:04

Confused! :scratch:

Elsewhere on their site is says -

< For audiophiles: For the best pre-amp performance possible, use matched and balanced pre-amp tubes >

Can anyone help with this?

NRG

22-03-2013, 13:54

I would say cobblers! Get match pre-amp tubes if you can, it does depend on the circuit but if you don't want a channel imbalance in your pre or different RIAA curves in your phono then get matched pairs. Of course if the circuit uses a single double triode then you only have one valve so best if both halves are closely matched...if not bin it and replace...

julesd68

22-03-2013, 20:04

Makes sense to me ...

I have a used Electro-Harmonix 6922EH / ECC88 tube going spare - is this of any use to anyone? Gratis to anyone who could make use of it ...

synsei

22-03-2013, 20:15

Could I grab that please? ;)

julesd68

22-03-2013, 20:21

No probs - just PM me your address Dave ...

synsei

22-03-2013, 20:26

PM incoming ;)

julesd68

22-03-2013, 21:22

On its way to Dave ... :)

julesd68

25-03-2013, 21:43

Thanks to the boy Adrian at Audioflair I'm collecting a matched pair of Full Music 12AX7's tomorrow - they've only got 10 hours under their belt, and the price was very nice ...

I've ordered the matching 12AU7 to go with them.

brian2957

25-03-2013, 21:59

Please let us know how you get on with them Julian . The Tung Sol 12AX7s and 12AU7s are sounding very nice indeed now they have some hours on them . A very nice upgrade for not too much money.

julesd68

25-03-2013, 22:03

What were you using before Brian?

brian2957

25-03-2013, 22:32

Both sets of valves were marked 'Made in China ' Julian . No manufacturers name on either set.

julesd68

03-04-2013, 14:05

My 1953 GE Black Plate 5751's arrived today (via Singapore for some reason) and seem to be in excellent cosmetic shape - seller had packed them pretty carefully.

Shame my new deck is still out of action! :steam:

My plan is to install the new tubes in stages so I can see what difference each one makes ... Just waiting for the Full Music 12AU7 and then I will have a complete set to play with.

brian2957

03-04-2013, 14:28

Nice one mate . I'll be watching this thread for your findings . :)

realysm42

06-04-2013, 10:11

Hope you don't mind me jumping in (I can't believe I'm saying this but); I'm going to take the leap into the world of valves (via a posh valve DAC). It uses 5687 dual triodes in the analog output stage.

So I've been looking at getting some spares for it, please can you tell me what you think of this offer:

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=150807123475 (£10 for 4)

That's a very low price compared to say:

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=52 (£15 a pop)

Please help a novice choose, I'm all for quality and would pay more if it meant the valves are better.

Thanks guys.

realysm42

06-04-2013, 10:19

PS. Do you chaps dct your valves? I know Marco does, what are your experiences with it?

Does it always bring a benefit, or is it like some interconnects/speaker cables I've heard mention (they've said I just made them really shouty and spoilt them).

realysm42

06-04-2013, 21:09

In fact maybe I'm asking the wrong question re the 5687s, maybe I should say which are the best altogether?

synsei

06-04-2013, 21:29

realysm42

06-04-2013, 21:31

Sorry, deep cryogenic treatment.

Freeze things in a controlled manner to remove stresses etc.

brian2957

06-04-2013, 21:34

Hi Martin , I'm a bit of a novice myself . Only have experience with DCT interconnects and didn't like the result . I hope some of the more experienced guys on here can offer you some advice . Good luck mate.

realysm42

06-04-2013, 21:39

Cheers dude. I'd never dct my interconnects or speaker cables, I'd be heartbroken if I spoilt them!

How did you go about it, did you send them off to be done professionally?

Its pretty intimidating, I've just found this site:

http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/wholesale/results.asp?ProdCode=5687&searchbutton=Go+%3E

And it appears there's even more choice than I anticipated!

synsei

06-04-2013, 21:42

Thanks Martin, valve novice here also ;)

brian2957

06-04-2013, 21:55

realysm42

06-04-2013, 22:10

No worries Dave, us newbies have to help each other where we can!

Watford valves seem to sell some pre-dct'd valves as it goes, might save some money and a bit of hassle...

NRG

06-04-2013, 23:31

I tried a set of Harma Cryo valves and TBH I wouldn't bother, wate of money for no sonic improvement... (http://www.watfordvalves.com/pdfs/git276.rev_valves.pdf)... IMHO its a daft idea valves get to very high temperatures, bright emitter tubes have their Cathodes at 2100K or thereabouts, Dull emitter 800~1000K... OK pate / anode temp will be lower but any stresses or 'crystalline alignment' :mental: due to deep freezing are going to be negated surely by the high operating temperature...or maybe the high temperature and subsequent slow cooling relives any stress and aligns those all important crystals in normal usage... :rolleyes:

walpurgis

06-04-2013, 23:48

I regard all the "cryo" stuff with deep suspicion. For a start, how can you tell it's really been treated as described and what scientific proof for the treatment do they quote.

I'm aware of 'supercooled' conductors, but that's a different thing altogether.

Next thing you know, we'll be offered "cryo" treatment for records and plugs & sockets. All a bit 'Belt' like, if you know what I mean (fiction has no bounds).

The Grand Wazoo

06-04-2013, 23:50

Well, there have been claims made for improving CDs by nestling 'em up to yer bag o' peas in the jolly ol' Frigidaire, you know.

synsei

07-04-2013, 00:15

One of the claims for Cryo Treatment is that it extends the life of a valve, has anyone any experience of this?

goraman

07-04-2013, 01:28

One of the claims for Cryo Treatment is that it extends the life of a valve, has anyone any experience of this?

NASA has used Cryo treatments to reduce stress cracks for years, it is also used for submarines to reduce damage due to exteam pressure changes causing the whole sub to compress.

It is used in Race motors and in Match rifle barrels.

It seems to be proven effective and the grain structure can be seen using an electron microscope both before and after cryo and has been proven to change the grain structure and using a Rockwell harness test it has been proven to temper metal increasing hardness, some metals affected more than others.

realysm42

17-04-2013, 10:26

BTW, is the general consensus all tubes need a burn in period?

Marco

17-04-2013, 10:29

If they haven't been used before, or other than just for testing, then yes :)

Marco.

realysm42

17-04-2013, 10:31

Cheers Marco.

I'm guessing there's different times for the models?

Marco

18-04-2013, 02:54

Hi Martin,

Nothing specific, as such. Sonically, you'll hear when valves have burnt in, the way you would when any new piece of equipment has run in from new. The sound tends to 'flesh out' and lose any rough edges.

In general, the process is a little longer for large output valves (KT88s, 300Bs, etc), than smaller signal valves (ECC82/83, etc), but this can also vary, and from manufacturer to manufacturer, too.

Marco.

worrasf

18-04-2013, 06:47

I contacted Frozen Solid and sent the i/cs to them for DCT treatment Martin. Great service I've got to say , but not cheap . Unfortunately I didn't like the results . You pays yer money mate . Don't know if they do valves .

Indeed they do - my KT120's and ECC99 gold pins are with them at the moment. Flat rate of £15 per valve but cheaper than another firm who charge by height and diameter :stalks:

Should get them back next week so we will see (hear) what difference it makes.

Steve

brian2957

18-04-2013, 09:44

Be good to know how you get on Stephen as I recently started using a valve amp.

worrasf

18-04-2013, 09:50

Be good to know how you get on Stephen as I recently started using a valve amp.

Happy to report back Brian

Steve

brian2957

18-04-2013, 09:56

Ta mate.:)

ppat2

28-05-2013, 17:28

I have an Air Tight ATM-1. Uses EL34, and for preamp is 12au7 and 12ax7.

For the latter two tubes, I previously had Siemens for the 2 au7's and a Telefunken for the single ax7.

I decided to try the Gold Lion ECC82 and ECC83 after reading some online reviews.

WOW, best upgrade I have ever made in my system for a total of $140!

:mex:

It is so dramatically better it is like I own a completely different system now.

I use Proac Response D Two's and now it sounds like I have very large (and expensive) tower speakers now with massive bass drivers. I can play it much louder than my ears will tolerate, and with no distortion of any sort.

Bass is far deeper and much more layered with vastly improved richness of tone.

Highs are way detailed with zero glare or sibilance or any noise. And every little sound and tinkle is in its own place and completely separated out, a bit eerie.

Midrange is to die for. You will never hear these mids from a solid state amp.

The dynamics are absolutely insane, so much drive and propulsion. Drums are startling the heck out out of me.

The biggest change maybe is how there is no noise or distortion and an extremely quiet background. I guess that is what is letting the other attributes shine. I have for some time been fighting some glare and noise in the highs and could not fix it no matter what. Isolating pads on top of speakers, very pricey isolation stands and cables and new AC outlets, and on and on...

I spent several thousand $ trying to fix the issue, and all helped but none satisfied me and the problem lingered. Now with a fell $140 swoop the job is done.

A simple upgrade like this resolved every complaint I had with my system, and has pushed all the boundaries. Everything the amp did well before, is now done so much better that words can't describe this level of change. I am shocked.

As a test, I took the Gold Lions out and put in the Siemens and Telefunken and also some Electro Harmonix as well. So two tests. Yikes, what a massive drop in performance when I removed the Gold Lions.

I love it it when the cheapest upgrade is the best one, but hate it when it takes so long to find and the money is spent chasing the wrong problem. I am new to the world of tubes, so I was just getting used to the amp and had been reluctant to upgrade. Ecstatic that I finally did.

I don't know that everyone will experience this type of improvement. There might be some special synergy with these tubes and my amp.

julesd68

07-01-2014, 18:38

OK guys I am resurrecting my old thread as it looks like I'm finally ready to do some tube rolling with the phono stage! :doh:

I have -

2 x Mullard ECC83 'penta' logo
1 x RCA Clear Top ECC82
1 x 1953 GE 5751

I think it makes sense to change one set at a time to see what difference it makes ... Where should I start? Possibly the 5751 might make the biggest change but who knows ...

My Sony 670ES amp that I'm experimenting with sounds spot on with cd (which I don't listen to often!!) but just lacking a bit of sparkle and detail on vinyl. It has considerably more bass grip and power than my other amp so this might be adding to the issue. If I can try and open up the mid-range a bit with the tube-rolling it would make an already superb performer even better ...

julesd68

09-01-2014, 11:50

Well I installed the GE 5751 yesterday. Initial results are most promising indeed.

The most pleasing thing is that I am getting a better impression of the treble - it feels less recessed in the midband and definitely more delicate than with the JAN 5751.
I am also able to enjoy the system at higher volume levels than before - the tube seems to have removed a touch of hardness and 'grain' from the sound.

So the Sony 670ES continues to impress. Next stop will be to see what the Mullards can do.

worrasf

09-01-2014, 12:08

It's so personal taste and system dependent is it not?

In my Croft 25R I have found that a Siemens E82CC in the line stage for my Cyrus CD XT SE2 gives me the best balance of detailed airy top end, crystal clear mid range especially with female vocals and good tight bass. I was using a Tungsram BH7A which produced more powerful bass but the mid/top had a bit less air and detail.
In contrast I find GE 5-star 5751's do the same with vinyl. What's interesting is that I also have a pair of Siemens & Halske ECC83's but these sound better in the poer section than the phono stage. All very confusing. I have now stopped tube rolling as it was making me ill - just have a few in reserve.

Steve