Shrinking The System

[flappy]

After a discussion with another hifi dealer after another amp problem, I was asked 'had i considered one of the small all in one systems instead of the separates.'
For example the Marantz m-cr603 or NAD c715

Many questions came to mind, would it sound as good? Is it powerful enough? Could i play my turntable through it? (with a pre-amp)

Anyone have any experience of these?

[MikeMusic]

After a discussion with another hifi dealer after another amp problem, I was asked 'had i considered one of the small all in one systems instead of the separates.'
For example the Marantz m-cr603 or NAD c715

Many questions came to mind, would it sound as good? Is it powerful enough? Could i play my turntable through it? (with a pre-amp)

Anyone have any experience of these?
What an odd hifi dealer
The Marantz is about £300 so needs to be seen/heard in that context
I'd look on Ebay and similar for a replacement amp for not a lot and keep flexibilty

[wiicrackpot]

I might get shot down for this but here goes, i'd rather go the AVI ADM9 route before i'd go an all in one system, just my 2p worth. :uhho:

[Macca]

I agree it is an odd suggestion. I suppose it depends what you want out of the system. If your main use is just for background music or listening at low volume then I suppose it makes some sense to simplify. Not a road I would expect a genuine enthusiast to go down, though. What sort of amp problems were you having?

[flappy]

Hi, It certainly isn't for background music. The music is front and centre:smoking:
So will these 'mini' systems not give me enough 'bang'?
The problem with the amp is that it keeps going into 'protection' mode.
It is hard to isolate the problem as it doesn't do it with just the headphones plugged in, it also doesn't do it if i only plug in one speaker, but with two speakers it shuts down every time.
The amp seller is adamant (not the same dealer as the mini system suggestor) it isn't the amp at fault.
I am sick of it and just want to chuck the lot out of the window and start again.
I am a vinyl obsessive and want the pleasure of my music again!

[MikeMusic]

Hi, It certainly isn't for background music. The music is front and centre:smoking:
So will these 'mini' systems not give me enough 'bang'?
The problem with the amp is that it keeps going into 'protection' mode.
It is hard to isolate the problem as it doesn't do it with just the headphones plugged in, it also doesn't do it if i only plug in one speaker, but with two speakers it shuts down every time.
The amp seller is adamant (not the same dealer as the mini system suggestor) it isn't the amp at fault.
I am sick of it and just want to chuck the lot out of the window and start again.
I am a vinyl obsessive and want the pleasure of my music again!
Stay with separates then
Check your speaker leads to see if they are damaged
Swap the speakers around and see if it's only one causing it
Swap the leads to check them
Anyone useful live nearby or could you take the bundle into the amp supplier dealer ?

[Macca]

Either try a different amp and see if the same issue occurs or take the amp to another system and try it there. Have to say I would suspect the amp has the problem but best to find out conclusively. Can you not take it to one of the dealers and have him set it up in one of his systems?

Any road up you don't want one of those all in one things, they are really just consumer fodder although I can understand the 'pack it all in' mentality as I have been there meself more than once.

[flappy]

I have tried it with different speakers and cable and it still happens.
The dealer says that because it doesn't happen with the headphones it is not the amp at fault.
This is my third amp in about 7-8 years, they just don't last for me. First was a marantz, then a denon, now an onkyo and i no longer trust any of them. Each has cost £150-£200, maybe not much to real hi-fi aficionados but enough for me and all sounded pretty good when working.
Not sure what to do if I can't solve this amp's issues, but i am getting a feeling from the responses on here that i wouldn't be satisfied with the all in one box

[Macca]

I have tried it with different speakers and cable and it still happens.
The dealer says that because it doesn't happen with the headphones it is not the amp at fault.


That's bollocks - clearly the amp is at fault. The headphone socket output just isn't using the gubbins (technical term) that is causing the fault. Take it back and get your money back. I think you have just been unlucky with amps as I have owned dozens of them over the years and only ever had one go faulty.

[MikeMusic]

I have tried it with different speakers and cable and it still happens.
The dealer says that because it doesn't happen with the headphones it is not the amp at fault.
This is my third amp in about 7-8 years, they just don't last for me. First was a marantz, then a denon, now an onkyo and i no longer trust any of them. Each has cost £150-£200, maybe not much to real hi-fi aficionados but enough for me and all sounded pretty good when working.
Not sure what to do if I can't solve this amp's issues, but i am getting a feeling from the responses on here that i wouldn't be satisfied with the all in one box
Something is wrong here
Have you a nearby expert ?

[johnwhit]

That's bollocks - clearly the amp is at fault. The headphone socket output just isn't using the gubbins (technical term) that is causing the fault. Take it back and get your money back. I think you have just been unlucky with amps as I have owned dozens of them over the years and only ever had one go faulty.

+1

John

[flappy]

A hifi dealer has offered to check the speakers for me tomorrow to see if there is a fault with them. Hopefully it wouldn't be taking the p**s if i took the amp as well and asked him to check that. (this is not the dealer who i got the amp from i must clarify.)

The dealer from whom the amp came is being stroppy with me over the phone, being quite argumentative about the problem, unfortunately i am not sufficiently knowledgeable to counter argue. It will cost me a lot if the amp turns out to not be at fault so i need to make sure before sending it back.
Don't know why I am so unlucky with amps, but with my 'once bitten' approach to consumerism i am running out of alternative manufacturers

[synsei]

Franco, how are your speaker cables terminated? Are they bare wires for instance?

[johnwhit]

Rotel used to make good, reliable, affordable amps, not sure about their present models, it's been a while since I bought anything Hi-Fi other than cables. A decent amp should last >10 yrs if it's not abused.

John

[Macca]

The dealer from whom the amp came is being stroppy with me over the phone, being quite argumentative about the problem, unfortunately i am not sufficiently knowledgeable to counter argue. It will cost me a lot if the amp turns out to not be at fault so i need to make sure before sending it back.
Don't know why I am so unlucky with amps, but with my 'once bitten' approach to consumerism i am running out of alternative manufacturers

What is the amp? Did you buy it brand new? You said you already tried it with different speeks and the problem persists so I don't see how it cannot be the amp with the problem. In any case the dealer is out of order - you are dissatisfied so he needs to sort it - that is part of his job and why he gets commission on the sale. There are zillions of amp manufaturers out there so you are spoilt for choice and are nowhere near running out of options.

[flappy]

Thanks for the replies.
The speakers terminals are something else i have checked. They had always been bare wire but i got some banana plugs a couple of weeks ago to make sure wiring connections wasn't the fault.
Oh 10+ years for an amp would be grand. I've done three now in less than that time.
Martin I'm not sure what the dealer's problem is, i am a pretty amiable sort and their approach has been aggressive/accusatory from my first call.
Where should I look for alternatives? Any online retailers with a diverse selection?

[Macca]

Martin I'm not sure what the dealer's problem is, i am a pretty amiable sort and their approach has been aggressive/accusatory from my first call.
Where should I look for alternatives? Any online retailers with a diverse selection?

There are plenty of places you could go - but if you want a low-hassle low cost option I would go to Richer Sounds and buy one of their Cambridge Audio amps. If you ever do have a problem with it then their after-sales service is excellent, they will not mess you about. Rega also have a rep for reliability and after-sales support, their amps are a little pricier though.

[hifi_dave]

Plugging in headphones doesn't prove the amp is not faulty as the headphone connection disconnects the speakers and the output stage. What troubles me is that you have had a few amps doing similar things and the present amp works with one pair of speakers at a time. Check the connections again and run one pair of speakers for an extended period.

Pity you're not nearer because we could sort this out pretty quickly.

[flappy]

I went to a friendly hifi dealer at the end of last week who tested the Onkyo a5vl amp and tested both sets of my speakers and they confirmed what everyone on this forum suggested, that it was the amp at fault. So have now returned to the rude supplier of said amp with a little more confidence. Hopefully they will sort it out.
The friendly hifi dealer did reiterate his suggestion that i consider the one-box marantz system. Stating that it was plenty powerful for both my sets of speakers. Without hearing it I am not sure i can make this judgement call. Can anyone explain why it might or might not be an agreeable answer?

[MikeMusic]

I went to a friendly hifi dealer at the end of last week who tested the Onkyo a5vl amp and tested both sets of my speakers and they confirmed what everyone on this forum suggested, that it was the amp at fault. So have now returned to the rude supplier of said amp with a little more confidence. Hopefully they will sort it out.
The friendly hifi dealer did reiterate his suggestion that i consider the one-box marantz system. Stating that it was plenty powerful for both my sets of speakers. Without hearing it I am not sure i can make this judgement call. Can anyone explain why it might or might not be an agreeable answer?
Good news. Let's hope the rude one plays ball nicely
Plenty powerful for your speakers is just one dimension.
If you have the space I'd stick with separates for much more flexibility
There are better answers to give you a better sound and package as long as you are happy to put money down

[Audioman]

If an amp costs £150 today there is bound to be cost cutting in component quality and long term reliability. £150 was 'budget' 20 years ago. If you want long term satisfaction in terms of SQ and reliability a little more is advisable. A £400 - £500 amp that lasts 10 years is cheaper than 3 at £200. Onkyo products (at least the more expensive) get a good press these days so it ought to be a reliable brand.

Would agree on Cambridge if cost is a problem but there are also affordable amps from Yamaha, Rotel etc. I think more important is to seek out a dealer with a good reputation for service so you are covered if a problem should arise. Would avoid the all in one approach suggested by the other dealer who is obviously trying to sell you what he stocks in your price range. If this amp is still under warranty and the dealer still won't play ball you could take it to another Onkyo dealer or contact Onkyo's UK distributor direct.

[flappy]

The only thing that made the all-in-one appealing was that it engaged with digital media better than any of the budget amps i'd looked at. Most usefully maybe the usb port in the front. I'm hoping the dealer will just get the onkyo fixed and all will be well but i need a plan B.

[MikeMusic]

The only thing that made the all-in-one appealing was that it engaged with digital media better than any of the budget amps i'd looked at. Most usefully maybe the usb port in the front. I'm hoping the dealer will just get the onkyo fixed and all will be well but i need a plan B.
Keep an eye open for 2nd hand sales here
Private Exhibitions or
Trade Impressions
You might find something takes your fancy for not a lot

[Audioman]

The only thing that made the all-in-one appealing was that it engaged with digital media better than any of the budget amps i'd looked at. Most usefully maybe the usb port in the front. I'm hoping the dealer will just get the onkyo fixed and all will be well but i need a plan B.

If you could stretch the budget a bit this would satisfy your requirements for digital connectivity.


http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/cambridge-audio/azur-651a/camb-651a-sil

Check out the video link on the web page.

[MikeMusic]

If you could stretch the budget a bit this would satisfy your requirements for digital connectivity.


I have this thought of painting yourself into a corner with a one box answer.
Guess the answer is to go and listen to one