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Rothchild
07-03-2013, 22:40
Super Budget Digital Audio Streaming Recipe

This is a recipe I've been working up for a couple of weeks that I wanted to share with you all. As the title suggests it's primarily a budget approach but realistically there's no reason you can't up the spend on the sound card to something more esoteric and get a really hi-fi result from it.

The magic of this system is that you can essentially have your own personal Spotify using the subsonic / madsonic media server software. You can stream music around your home to different computers and you can remote control your base station machine using your mobile phone (as well as being able to stream to that phone also, so you can have your music when you're out and about too!) You could also skip the soundcard completely and just use the pi as a streaming server to other devices that do have a sound card / converter attached to them.

You can also use it to run an XBMC media server although this guide is more focussed on Subsonic as that's the one I've enjoyed using the most (I don't do a lot of telly / films, I like choons!)

On first glance, if you've not delved in to computers all that much it looks quite involved and complicated but if you're reasonably methodical and happy to use google (and this thread) I think you'll find it's all quite straight forward really.

Hardware

Raspberry Pi – model b

http://raspberrypi.rsdelivers.com/product/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-type-b/raspberry-pi-type-b-single-board-computer-512mb/7568308.aspx

£26

Pi power supply – this is the better 2amp model, wouldn't skimp any further on this

http://raspberrypi.rsdelivers.com/product/rs/hnp10i-microusb/micro-usb-multi-head-power-supply-for-raspberry-pi/7653311.aspx

£10

Pi case (optional)

http://raspberrypi.rsdelivers.com/product/rs/raspberry-pi-type-b-case-clear/caseclr.aspx

£5

SD Card – 16gig is a good idea if you want to go the Berryboot route, outlined below, and have multiple OS flavours available on your Pi

http://www.ebuyer.com/397949-lexar-16gb-full-hd-video-sdhc-card-lsd16gfbeuhd

£10

1TB USB Hard drive – if you already have a NAS solution this may not be necessary – it's useful to have one as the pi runs faster from a USB drive anyway but just get a smaller / cheaper one if you're hosting your media elsewhere

http://www.ebuyer.com/238460-intenso-1tb-portable-hard-drive-6002560

£60

Audio interface – Burr Brown converters, RIAA compensated inputs (switchable to line ins if you have better pre for phono input) Optical output (for if you have a better converter)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Control-low-latency-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI?tag=qrb-su-21

£23 – Confession 1. I don't have this soundcard myself however I've checked that it is compatible with linux and has a standard USB driver so should work 'out of the box'

Other bits and bobs – Ethernet cable and internet connection / access to home router. HDMI cable (if you want to do video to a television, it also has uses for getting setup which are explained when we get to software setup), another computer with an sd card reader – this guide assumes you have one running linux, preferably Debian or a Debian derivative (Ubuntu, Crunchbang, Mint etc)

Hardware setup

This should be pretty fool-proof!

Simply plug all the relevant items in to their relevant sockets (HDMI to TV, Ethernet to router, hard-drive and sound card in USB and power in to the mini usb socket on the pi)

If you want more USB devices you should consider a powered hub to hang them off.

Software Setup

A general point, it's really helpful if you know how to use SSH to connect remotely to another computer on your home network, if you also set up your router so it always assigns your pi the same address then you can connect to it using SSH at a command prompt just type: ssh pi@192.168.1.whateveripyouvesettheroutertogivetoth epi (assuming you've left the default user name at pi) if you've left the default password too (naughty naughty!) then when you're prompted for the password it's raspberry if you haven't it's whatever you changed it to. If you've kept he default hostname you can also do ssh pi@raspberrypi and that should get you to the password prompt too.

This little sequence will log you in to the pi remotely and the next prompt that comes up is the pi rather than the machine you're typing on, cool huh? If you're on windows you should look in to installing PuTTy and WinSCP as these are the tools you need to complete the same tasks from a windows box.


Getting the Pi up and running

Berryboot
http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php/berryboot

Your Pi doesnt' have a BIOS but it doesn't mean you can dual (or multi) boot it with different OS flavours. Berryboot gives you a very simple route in to this. Simply download the Berryboot zip file and extract its contents in to a freshly formatted (FAT32) SD card, slip it in the Pi and switch on. Then just follow the on-screen instructions and you can have a range of different Pi Compatible OS flavours available (I did this so I can have a 'straight' Debian install as well as an xbmc install).

Confession 2: I 'cheated' slightly in doing this section myself as I have an old usb wireless keyboard with a touchpad mouse on it that I've got on the other USB socket on the pi, so I just navigated the berryboot menus using that. If you don't have one I suspect you could probably do it using just a wired keyboard and tabbing through the berryboot menus. If you have neither and are confident with these things you can do a 'headless' installation using VNC to remote in to Berryboot and control it that way, there's guidance on how to do this on the berryboot website.

In the first instance select Debian Wheezy and tell berryboot that you'd like to install to the USB hard-drive, now go and get a cuppa and a couple of hob-nobs cos it's going to take a while to download and install. This is all automated, you should be able to watch the bars go by on your telly via the hdmi output.

When the first boot menu runs set the appropriate timezones etc and make sure you select 'don't boot in to graphical interface' and 'run SSH server on startup' finalise the install and let it complete. This is a good moment for a cuppa, it's gonna take a little while to work through this. (Confession 2(a) I did this on the telly using my USB keyboard explained in Confession 2)

Recommended: Once the installation is complete log in over ssh to the pi and run the traditional debian sequence of commands to make sure the software is fully up to date

To check for updates
sudo apt-get update

To install non critical upgrades
sudo apt-get upgrade

To install system upgrades
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

For each of theses you'll see a load of stuff happening and eventually you'll be returned to the prompt where you can go for the next one. Once they're all done reboot for luck ;-)

sudo shutdown -r now

You've now got a fully up to date and functional computing device!

Java

Once you've got your basic debian installation up and running.

After a bit of playing it's clear that madsonic works much faster with the latest version of Java, I used the tutorial from here: http://www.savagehomeautomation.com/projects/raspberry-pi-installing-oracle-java-se-8-with-javafx-develop.html to get it upgraded on my pi. The main difference I took was to just download the java files straight to the pi rather than to another box first and copying them across, to do this I

Key steps:

SSH in to Pi and navigate to the home folder (should actually be there by default, if in doubt use pwd to determine the present working directory if it's not /home/pi then do cd /home/pi to change to that directory)

Code:

wget http://www.java.net/download/JavaFXarm/jdk-8-ea-b36e-linux-arm-hflt-29_nov_2012.tar.gz

will download the tarball to the pi's home folder

Thereafter it just follows the steps in the guide:

unpack the Oracle JDK .gz file using this command:

tar xvzf ~/jdk-8-ea-b36e-linux-arm-hflt-29_nov_2012.tar.gz

Make a folder to move the files to:

sudo mkdir -p -v /opt/java

and move them:

sudo mv -v ~/jdk1.8.0 /opt/java

you can now delete the source:

rm ~/jdk-8-ea-b36e-linux-arm-hflt-29_nov_2012.tar.gz

To complete the JDK installation let the system know there is a new JVM installed and where it is located:

sudo update-alternatives --install "/usr/bin/java" "java" "/opt/java/jdk1.8.0/bin/java" 1

And finally tell the system that we want this JDK to be the default Java runtime for the system:

sudo update-alternatives --set java /opt/java/jdk1.8.0/bin/java


I also followed the stages describing how to add the java_home environment variable for good measure.

Subsonic / Madsonic

We'll start with Subsonic just to get you going, if enough folk are interested and can't work it out for themselves we can carry on to Madsonic further down the thread.

Get the installer for Subsonic:

You can find the latest stable version or the latest beta version on the Subsonic download page. Make sure you follow the download links to SourceForge *until you see a ‘Direct Link’. Right click that link and select ‘Copy Link’. You can then right-click the ssh window to paste the URL there.

SSH in to the pi

wget [right-click paste url or shift - ins to paste]*-O subsonic.deb

Once downloaded install the package

sudo dpkg -i subsonic-x,x.deb (with the x's replaced with your version number, probably 4.7)

There's some good instructions here: http://mj2p.co.uk/?p=7 the variation I've used is that rather than creating the new user (subsonic_user) I've just kept the username 'pi' and that's the one that I've adjusted /usr/default/subsonic to refer to so that subsonic runs with only user privileges rather than admin (root) privileges.

Home Run

The final significant hurdle to cross is that you need to amend the version of FFMPEG that's installed as the one that comes with subsonic doesn't work on the pi, again the instructions to do this are here: http://mj2p.co.uk/?p=7 and it's a simple install of a couple of packages, the deletion of the wrong ones and a copy of the correct one in to the right location.

The final simple step is to make a media folder and copy your media in to it. I'm not going to preach on how to organise your media, I have everything in idividual album folders in a folder called music and that works fine for me! From Windows using WinSCP is a great simple tool to copy across, on linux I just just scp from the command line to copy files in to the pi.

mkdir /home/pi/music

scp -r route/to/files/on/localmachine pi@raspberrypi:/home/pi/music

At last (if you haven't already for a cheeky look) you can log in to subsonic and set it up from within the application. Look up on your router what the IP of the pi is (or if you know because you've set the router to always assign the same address and with firefox go to 192.168.1.xxx:4040 (where the xxxs are replaced with the actual address and you should be presented with the subsonic log in page. The default user and pass is admin admin and you should change the password before anything else. Thereafter it's all fairly straightfoward!

Gazjam
07-03-2013, 22:52
Thanks for sharing, looks good! :)

simon e
07-03-2013, 23:57
I was looking at a raspberry pi for a music server. But there was a problem with usb audio to a dac a few months ago

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Rothchild
08-03-2013, 00:04
Hi Simon,

I'll test it out with a USB soundcard this weekend and will get back to you, as that is the bit I've not directly tested out (I'm using to serve up audio to all the other machines in the house but I've not actually directly played any audio out of the Pi itself).

However I can't imagine it's going to be an issue thought as I've cribbed lots of the info for the recipe here from folk who are doing just that, there might be issues with some of the 'audiophile' dacs (the sorta semi homebrew stuff) but I'm confident that the little behringer I linked to (or my much beloved but 'out of date' edirol which I'll run the test with this weeked) will work fine.

EDIT: Great article here (better than mine!) about setting up a pi with a Sabre DAC (mentioned elsewhere on this board) http://www.audiohobby.com/raspberry-pi-for-audiophiles/ albeit using mpd rather than subsonic.

Thanks Gazjam, it sounds good too!

Krisbee
08-03-2013, 22:08
I was looking at a raspberry pi for a music server. But there was a problem with usb audio to a dac a few months ago

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

A fatal design flaw? Problems revolve around USB/ethernet on same bus, ie. no proper ethernet. USB Audio at 16bit/44.1KHz is apparently fine. This site says the Hiface2 XMOS based device works OK at red book res, so that implies USB audio class 2 can function.

http://www.raspyfi.com/supported-dacs/

Only other question is about the appropriate power supply for the Pi to match overall USB power drain. Hence people using power USB hubs in some cases.

Krisbee
08-03-2013, 22:10
Hi Simon,

I'll test it out with a USB soundcard this weekend and will get back to you, as that is the bit I've not directly tested out (I'm using to serve up audio to all the other machines in the house but I've not actually directly played any audio out of the Pi itself).

However I can't imagine it's going to be an issue thought as I've cribbed lots of the info for the recipe here from folk who are doing just that, there might be issues with some of the 'audiophile' dacs (the sorta semi homebrew stuff) but I'm confident that the little behringer I linked to (or my much beloved but 'out of date' edirol which I'll run the test with this weeked) will work fine.

EDIT: Great article here (better than mine!) about setting up a pi with a Sabre DAC (mentioned elsewhere on this board) http://www.audiohobby.com/raspberry-pi-for-audiophiles/ albeit using mpd rather than subsonic.

Thanks Gazjam, it sounds good too!

Great stuff, Marc. You've almost persuaded me to join the PI gang. P.S. The Behringer UCA202 has the same USB receiver chip as the TC-7520 and Caiman DACs.

Rothchild
09-03-2013, 00:15
Great stuff, Marc. You've almost persuaded me to join the PI gang. P.S. The Behringer UCA202 has the same USB receiver chip as the TC-7520 and Caiman DACs.

Come on in, the water's lovely! ;-)

It would appear that some folk are having issues with beyond CD quality audio on the Pi. I hadn't come across these issues prior to posting as I don't use anything above 16bit 44.1 for anything other than in my recording work (for headroom). So, in practical terms, it just works. Indeed, imo, it sounds damn fine streamed as flac through my RME soundcard (using vlc or clementine) on my PMC monitors in the studio, but I don't have golden ears...

When the most expensive component is the hard drive and the total cost is still less than a lot of people spend on speaker cable (by some margin) then it's gotta be worth a go, surely.

simon e
09-03-2013, 18:00
I may have to get one, just to see how it sounds compared to the squeeze box. I believe someone as developed a squeeze server and player which run on the pi.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Rothchild
09-03-2013, 19:15
Squeeze compatibility is looking quite good (although I've not tested it myself)

http://www.squeezeplug.de

With more discussion and info here

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=10666

Doesn't look like it will be too long before someone hacks up the tools needed to avoid having to use a USB interface and building a solution to feed the DAC from the GPIO pins, using i2s, on the Pi. I suspect at that point it will become a very serious proposition for HD audio fans.

http://www.raspyfi.com/anatomy-of-a-pi-raspberry-pi-i2s-and-usb-connections/

Rothchild
26-03-2013, 17:45
Has anyone actually taken the plunge and bought a Pi to run their home media needs?

Mine's been up 24-7 since I set it up and appears to be rock solid. I nearly destroyed my phone data allowance using it to listen to tunes in the car, and I'm loving it to listen to FLACs over the home network in my studio.

aquapiranha
01-04-2013, 11:29
I hd looked at the Rasberri Pi as a streamer, but it is a lot of messing and has limited usb etc. I have just sold my WDTV Live and will be replacing it with this..

https://www.lenovo.com/products/us/desktop/ideacentre/q-series/q190/

http://www.lenovo.com/images/products/desktops/q190/q190-ribbon.jpg

More info here..

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=157563

I will also be using XBMC which i have been testing on the PC using Linux Mint for a while..

Rothchild
01-04-2013, 12:20
Bit rich for my tastes (partly because it include MS Tax), looks nice though. Limited messing about potential ;-) and has a fan apparently.

I think as a solution the Pi is playing in a different pond.

aquapiranha
01-04-2013, 12:37
Yes, I will be binning the M$ offering and usine XBMCbuntu or Open elec probably. There are ways to control fan speed, which as far as I can tell is not as intrusive as some would have you beleive. I do like the Pi for various reasons but i just prefer the idea of an 'out of the box' solution. The Pi has a great following and a great community behind it. I can see an advanced Pi being released with a few more i/o options and maybe ehnanhed usability in the future, and I hope it is successful, it certainly deserves succes.

Rothchild
04-06-2013, 17:32
A fatal design flaw? Problems revolve around USB/ethernet on same bus, ie. no proper ethernet. USB Audio at 16bit/44.1KHz is apparently fine. This site says the Hiface2 XMOS based device works OK at red book res, so that implies USB audio class 2 can function.

http://www.raspyfi.com/supported-dacs/

Only other question is about the appropriate power supply for the Pi to match overall USB power drain. Hence people using power USB hubs in some cases.

Just in case anyone had been put of the prospect of a high quality low budget digital media solution it appears that there is now a fix working which enables the the Pi to play hi rez files (should that sort of thing float your boat) http://www.raspyfi.com/raspberry-pi-usb-audio-fix/ lots of folk reporting successes with a whole range of both esoteric and more common or garden converters.

Gazjam
04-06-2013, 17:50
I'm working on a Linux based Pi streamer atm, never thought I'd entertain anything non Win/Jriver...but it's surprised me have to say.

Tim
04-06-2013, 18:08
I have looked at it as a small lower power streamer and it would seem pretty good, but the issue of the shared bus will degrade the sound quality, but for most people its fantastic and perfect. I posted this earlier and this is great for a Pi :)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26050-Raspberry-Pi-50-s-vintage-radio-music-streamer

I am going to get one, just to satisfy my curiosity and it would be perfect for a second system in the bedroom or kitchen and I will try to wring the best out of it as an audiophile server, but even the folks at Raspyfi admit its sound quality is only reasonable, so I doubt it would satisfy me, but I will still buy it.


"The RaspyFi distro is designed to achieve reasonable sound quality from your PI without needing to configure it. It’s ready to play and in 10 minutes you’ll be able to listen to your music library"
Source (http://www.raspyfi.com/raspyfi-quick-start-guide/)

It it doesn't make the cut, it will perform media duties running XBMC to play movies from my NAS. I can stick it to the back of my TV with double sided tape and power it from the Panasonic USB ports. Attach an HDMI and Ethernet cable and Bobs' your uncle. Control it all with an app on a tablet or smartphone and you have a very capable HD movie streamer for under 30 quid.

z5TafdPPwnc

I'm playing with Voyage MPD at the moment, but when I have perfected an audio Linux box, I will move onto the PI :)

Tim
04-06-2013, 18:11
I'm working on a Linux based Pi streamer atm, never thought I'd entertain anything non Win/Jriver...but it's surprised me have to say.
:lol: - I have just ordered an ALIX board Gary for Voyage MPD.

keiths
04-06-2013, 18:22
Still very happy here with my little Atom-based MPD server.

MPD clients for Android are a bit basic - MPDroid is by far the best of the lot but has a few small bugs and is missing a couple of features that I would like to see. Hopefully it will develop over time. The source code is available from Github - I may well do some customisation myself if I get some spare time over the coming months.

Tim
04-06-2013, 18:31
Still very happy here with my little Atom-based MPD server.
Funnily enough I had some issues getting MPD to run on my two atom boards Kieth, the Asus AT510NT-i and Intel DN2800. Tried everything, SSD's, mechanical drives, just didn't like it. Odd really as all my other Linux boot discs work with them fine. I even formatted them ahead of the install with ext2 file systems, but they still refused to play. I dug out an old (very old) Pentium 4 board with a single core CPU and 512MB RAM and bingo, straight in first time. I played around with that for a bit then thought, 'yep, I like this' and ordered an ALIX board. I plan to power it from a SLA battery and from what I have heard so far, it looks very promising ;)

Rothchild
05-06-2013, 16:46
I have looked at it as a small lower power streamer and it would seem pretty good, but the issue of the shared bus will degrade the sound quality, but for most people its fantastic and perfect. I posted this earlier and this is great for a Pi :)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26050-Raspberry-Pi-50-s-vintage-radio-music-streamer


Yes, it was your post that prompted me to check what was going on in raspyfi world (I'm very happy with mine running madsonic server as per the original post in this thread). I think the solution that they're working towards (using an i2s interface on the GPIO pins) will bypass the contention / bandwidth issues of the shared usb ethernet port and deliver a very credible solution.

Incidently, I have mine as a dual boot with OpenElec for XBMC and it's great for watching BBC Iplayer and the like + all works really well using the TV remote through the HDMI cable etc, very impressive!

Tim
05-06-2013, 22:34
What I like about the whole Pi project is it does seem to be stimulating interest amongst a lot of youngsters, which is good to see, as we are really starting to trail behind when it comes to technology. A really smart move was just selling it as a bare board too, to stimulate tinkering, which is what its all about. MS and Apple have made us all a bit lazy - when I first started playing with computers I had to write DOS batch files to boot my 386 PC, in order to play games and that wasn't really that long ago. I also remember driving 120 miles to buy a stick of 8MB RAM which cost me over £100.00!

Trumpton_Rioter
06-06-2013, 08:15
I have just ordered myself a Pi to stream movies stored on my NAS using RaspMC

Had a play with one for work and it seemed very easy to set up so I imagine when I do it at home it will go horribly wrong :lol:

Krisbee
08-06-2013, 09:07
:lol: - I have just ordered an ALIX board Gary for Voyage MPD.

It's only taken you 7 years to catch up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/326831/my-new-3-watt-dead-silent-usb-linux-music-server-pics-added :)

Interesting to see there might be some new Linux converts here.

Tim
08-06-2013, 09:52
It's only taken you 7 years to catch up . . .
Interestingly one of the things that started me on this journey was listening to a Bryston BDP-1 - it now seems I'm duplicating it (not intentional) and not blowing my own trumpet, but its going to be better (due to the PSU and USB tweaking) and it sure won't cost me £2,500 ;)

Krisbee
08-06-2013, 10:04
Interestingly one of the things that started me on this journey was listening to a Bryston BDP-1 - it now seems I'm duplicating it (not intentional) and not blowing my own trumpet, but its going to be better (due to the PSU and USB tweaking) and it sure won't cost me £2,500 ;)

Exactly, the Bryston is the expensive boutique equiv of a DIY ALIX, but you get to add your own secret sauce of power and USB implementation. Perhaps you've already mentioned it elsewhere Tim, but were you proposing to go public on your own USB findings?

Tim
08-06-2013, 19:40
Perhaps you've already mentioned it elsewhere Tim, but were you proposing to go public on your own USB findings?
Initially I was Chris, but I'm sitting on it for now - it was mostly just a white paper on the benefits of isolation and regulated 5V power for the DAC chipset. Nothing that hasn't been discussed elsewhere, but the information is spread all over the place, it just brought it all together. Its clear from some of the threads here, that people don't understand the principles and assume it must be a 'dark art', which it isn't. But all the tinkering I have done over recent weeks has sown a seed, so I'm sitting on it for now until I decide what to do with it all.

aquapiranha
08-06-2013, 21:17
Well after all of the praise I heaped on the lenovo, in the end I just bought the latest version of the WDTV Live that I had. This one has an improved interface, wireless and I can control it with the free app on my phone too! It is a superb device and cost me £55 on eBay. I am chuffed!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Tim
08-06-2013, 21:22
Its good isn't it Steve, I had the old model but when I got a tablet I had to update it so I could use the remote app - glad I did :)

Krisbee
09-06-2013, 15:18
Just in case anyone had been put of the prospect of a high quality low budget digital media solution it appears that there is now a fix working which enables the the Pi to play hi rez files (should that sort of thing float your boat) http://www.raspyfi.com/raspberry-pi-usb-audio-fix/ lots of folk reporting successes with a whole range of both esoteric and more common or garden converters.

That's a bit of news I missed. The pi temptation is getting stronger.

Gazjam
11-06-2013, 15:54
The Pi solution is a good bet if you don't need any frills, just a music player.
Cheap as chips too!

Been messing around with it...Its NOT a giant killer or the best sounding solution, but great for what it is and "good enough" for a lot of folk, and why not.

Its good fun too (Once you get Linux sorted on it) :)

Rothchild
11-06-2013, 16:22
Its good fun too (Once you get Linux sorted on it) :)

Linux is easy.... I'm dreading the next time I have to rebuild my studio machine (the only one I have that runs Windows) what a giant PITA!

The next step is to run the dac directly from the the GPIO I2S pins on the Pi, I suspect that at that point it may well become a 'giant killer' (or at least a snobbery basher)

Tim
11-06-2013, 20:13
Linux is easy....
Hmmm, tell that to a 30 something who has never known anything other than Windows and never saw a command line, yet alone typed a command - "sudo what, is that a Phil Collins song?"

Gazjam
12-06-2013, 07:51
The trick is to hide Linux so that 30something never needs comes across it. ;)

Tim
12-06-2013, 08:44
The trick is to hide Linux so that 30something never needs comes across it. ;)
We are it seems on the same page again Gary :lol:

Rothchild
12-06-2013, 17:14
Hmmm, tell that to a 30 something who has never known anything other than Windows and never saw a command line, yet alone typed a command - "sudo what, is that a Phil Collins song?"

What age does someone need to be to find linux easy? (just trying to work out if I'm being made older or younger than my 30 something years ;-))

I spent too many years learning inane and obscure details about how to make windows work right (not to mention restarting for trivial updates and having every last widget, app and other crap want to take over my machine, update itself every 10 minutes, spy on me, sign me up for shit it don't need etc etc etc) to want to go back there. The notion that windows is easy is a lie. It's easy to buy a machine that will bug the living daylights out of you and probably be part of a botnet (state sanctioned or otherwise) within hours of taking it online but a smooth running, well tweaked and non-annoying windows machine takes as much, if not more, care than a linux box.

Getting a Pi running is so trivial that even children under 10 can do it, what's your excuse again? ;-)

Tim
12-06-2013, 18:38
Getting a Pi running is so trivial that even children under 10 can do it, what's your excuse again?
Ouch . . . and this was actually the point I was making and why I choose 30 as the age group, but I think you totally missed that :scratch:
No worries though and Linux may be easy for you, but I reckon well over 75% on this forum would disagree with that and I reckon over 75% are aged 30 or over. If you're unfamiliar with it, Linux is far from easy.

http://royal.pingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/linux-netmarketshare.001.jpg

The question I would ask though is this? If it is so easy, then why do less than 2% of desktop computer users take the plunge, especially when it's free, more stable than Windows, more secure than Windows and can run on just about any hardware? The answer is because most people find even the concept hard to grasp and have never used it and probably don't want to either, cos they stick to what they know and are comfortable with, which if you are aged 30+ will in most cases be a Windows desktop computer, followed by a Mac. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, or that I think anything is better than the other, that's just the way it is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems).

Anyway, I'm done discussing operating systems as I agree with Marco 100%, the topic sucks, so I'm going to listen to some music instead which is a whole lot more fun than this pish :lolsign:

If anyone else catches me talking or commenting about operating systems, please take me outside and shoot me :guns:

Gazjam
12-06-2013, 18:43
:lol:

Krisbee
13-06-2013, 08:38
Tim,

I don't want to drag you away from your music, but the cynic might paraphrase your comment thus:

“If your over 30, stick with Windows. It might be inferior to Linux, but you won't find that easy to use.”

Apart from the that fact that one person's easy is another's hard, it's often forgotten in these kinds of arguments that humans are not born with pre-knowledge of MS Windows operating systems. People have had to learn to use it. Learning to use a Linux desktop is no harder.

The “Look Linux has only 2% of the desktop market” argument is misleading. Every time someone buys a PC, Laptop, or tablet etc. pre-loaded with Windows, MS have a large corporate smile on their faces as they know that folk are unlikely to change to another OS once they've got to grips with Windows. I would suggest Windows has become a “de facto” standard, albeit a bog-standard, because of the predatory commercialism of MS. ( Now we have the unhealthy situation of UEFI and secure boot which will prevent users from loading anything but Windows on their hardware).

For example, a combo of say Windows + foobar on a laptop with a hiface 2 is no easier or harder to configure than say Lubuntu + Deadbeef with a hiface2. I would expect the SQ to be hard to tell apart. I know which I would prefer to use.

Installing and configuring Linux on something like an ALIX board is a different kettle of fish but then it won't work with Windows. There are enough guides around to make even this more straight forward. And loads of guides for the raspberry PI.

I get the impression that Gary has abandoned the idea of using Linux after all, and would rather spend his time delving into the rats nest of the MS registry, which is surely an invention of the devil. That's a pity, but each to his own of course.

Gazjam
13-06-2013, 13:46
Tim,

I don't want to drag you away from your music, but the cynic might paraphrase your comment thus:

“If your over 30, stick with Windows. It might be inferior to Linux, but you won't find that easy to use.”

Apart from the that fact that one person's easy is another's hard, it's often forgotten in these kinds of arguments that humans are not born with pre-knowledge of MS Windows operating systems. People have had to learn to use it. Learning to use a Linux desktop is no harder.

The “Look Linux has only 2% of the desktop market” argument is misleading. Every time someone buys a PC, Laptop, or tablet etc. pre-loaded with Windows, MS have a large corporate smile on their faces as they know that folk are unlikely to change to another OS once they've got to grips with Windows. I would suggest Windows has become a “de facto” standard, albeit a bog-standard, because of the predatory commercialism of MS. ( Now we have the unhealthy situation of UEFI and secure boot which will prevent users from loading anything but Windows on their hardware).

For example, a combo of say Windows + foobar on a laptop with a hiface 2 is no easier or harder to configure than say Lubuntu + Deadbeef with a hiface2. I would expect the SQ to be hard to tell apart. I know which I would prefer to use.

Installing and configuring Linux on something like an ALIX board is a different kettle of fish but then it won't work with Windows. There are enough guides around to make even this more straight forward. And loads of guides for the raspberry PI.

I get the impression that Gary has abandoned the idea of using Linux after all, and would rather spend his time delving into the rats nest of the MS registry, which is surely an invention of the devil. That's a pity, but each to his own of course.

Hey Chris...

Abandoned Linux, not at all...well, kinda. :)
I had built a Pi box with Audiophile linux and was comparing it to a seperate project I was dabbling with running Windows 8.
It was always about the "best" sound quality for me, and the latest state of play was that I was having more success with Windows, delving deeper into the registry.
Have to say though, a big part of that was my familiarity with windows vs getting into the guts of Linux.
I'm an ex Unix guy, so its kinda familar and I'm seeing that theres more potential there.

Its ongoing, so not abandoned Linux just yet.
Its just that Windows is winning at the moment.

Krisbee
15-06-2013, 11:30
ap-linux on a raspberry PI? I thought ap-liunx was i386 only? Anyway, some ideas of combining the PI with a sabre DAC and XMOS usb receiver might tickle someone's fancy:

http://www.raspyfi.com/building-my-reference-dac/

Rothchild
15-06-2013, 15:43
Ouch . . .

Sorry you missed the smiley, I was being more jovial than you seem to have taken me for. I think Kris got the gist as I was driving at, that the measure of 'hard' is a subjective thing and that actually all OS's (beyond trivial use) have to be learned one way or another.

I think you're right about hiding linux to make it acceptable, have you seen what the market share of Android is in the mobile space? ;-)

Regards,
30 something, mostly platform agnostic computer user

Tim
15-06-2013, 15:53
I like Linux but I better not mention too much, somebody might take me outside and shoot me :lol:

Rothchild
15-06-2013, 16:13
Lol, I was just resisting coming in to the registry tweaks thread with the Uzi smiley ;-)

Themis
16-06-2013, 09:07
I like Linux but I better not mention too much, somebody might take me outside and shoot me :lol:
:lol:

Krisbee
17-06-2013, 11:10
Has anyone been following the development of the Community Squeeze project? http://www.communitysqueeze.org/faq.jsp

Any thoughts? I'm using a combo of LMS/squeezelite on a standard Linux PC for the convenience of using Triode's BBC iPlayer plugin.

NRG
17-06-2013, 13:02
Yes, I think its a great idea and the ability to run on a number of platforms is a real plus IMHO.

John
17-06-2013, 16:14
If I am your typical over 30 something here where I stand
I think having to learn a new operating system is something that scares me, for better or worse at least I know where I stand with Windows. My life is complicated enough. I use Windows all the time at work, when I go home I want a simple life.
I do like the idea of Linux I think it would be a worth while path to follow for audio. Perhaps if I saw and heard Linux working I might think differently. I am pretty open minded but I need the to understand the reality

Rothchild
17-06-2013, 16:20
having to learn a new operating system is something that scares me,

All's in fear is fear itself.

Here's a little somthing to help steel you:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGGRi2CEFu8

Seriously though, for the price of a Pi and weekend tinkering (with the guide on page one of this thread) I think you'll surprise yourself at what you're capable of.

Krisbee
17-06-2013, 17:47
John,

If it helps, I'll mentor you through getting Linux up and running on your PC/Laptop. Your welcome to listen to my humble set up, I'm not too far from you. Just PM me.

Themis
17-06-2013, 22:05
I think that for someone who wants to build a music-only computer, Linux is a serious candidate. ;)

Unfortunately all my 7 computers at home are used for various other activities (game, drawing, etc) so Windows is simpler to me.

struth
17-06-2013, 23:46
...and I thought I was doing well getting FOOBAR to work on my computer and then sending it by wire to my stereo:doh::doh: Judging by the comments here i, as am about to be 60 soon am tooooo old for linux learning!!!

Krisbee
18-06-2013, 05:46
I think that for someone who wants to build a music-only computer, Linux is a serious candidate. ;)

Unfortunately all my 7 computers at home are used for various other activities (game, drawing, etc) so Windows is simpler to me.

Just turn one ( or more) into a dual boot machine, and then you can experiment all you want.

Krisbee
18-06-2013, 05:56
...and I thought I was doing well getting FOOBAR to work on my computer and then sending it by wire to my stereo:doh::doh: Judging by the comments here i, as am about to be 60 soon am tooooo old for linux learning!!!

The thread is digression, but us old dogs can learn new tricks. Don't be put off by the stick in the muds. The question is whether Linux + deadbeef would be better than Windows + foobar on your computer. In the end, only you can decide that.

Themis
18-06-2013, 06:23
Just turn one ( or more) into a dual boot machine, and then you can experiment all you want.

Dont get me wrong, I have plenty of Linux servers at work, and I use Linux every day.

Krisbee
18-06-2013, 07:10
If you are using Linux in a professional IT work capacity then you know all there is to know. Have you never wanted to set up a Linux music-server at home?

Themis
18-06-2013, 14:43
If you are using Linux in a professional IT work capacity then you know all there is to know. Have you never wanted to set up a Linux music-server at home?
I could, theoretically, but my WHS has been working perfectly for years, I don't have valid reasons to spend a day or two reinstalling everything... :o

But, I agree that for a new user (who doesn't have a server already operational) Linux is a perfectly stable, free and efficient solution !
A few years ago, only computer freaks could install a complex Linux server. Nowadays, it's enough to pick up a user-friendly distribution and, anyone who can install Windows can install Linux. With a little help from forums, if needed for some exceptionally specific needs (that most people don't have, anyway).