electricbeach audio

[electric beach]

Remember the Remington advert with the slogan "I liked the product so much I bought the company"? Well, I haven't bought a company but I'm starting one and I've certainly bought into a design and a concept.

I'm posting this merely to explain my change to trade status, as target customers would not be members or viewers of this forum. I imagine those with a driving interest in the subject would consider putting a system together for themselves as being part of the fun.


www.electricbeachaudio.com


The intention is to produce a modular offer for TV and movie sound, but one that is fundamentally musical, giving a notable viewing experience and impressive music replay in a combination that has at least some arguements in the debate for living room space. All speakers will be built to order and therefore their appearance can be customised for colour and materials, within the design skeleton that I've established. The amplifier is discreet and speakers curvy with minimal drivers, so WAF is an intentional priority.
Stealth Fidelity. :eyebrows:


http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=126&pictureid=1042


When I first heard single driver horn speakers in combination with triode amplification I loved their trademark coherency, intimacy and dynamics. It was easy to understand their somewhat marginalised following - and equally easy to understand their detractors; size, horn honk, piercing treble, light bass, narrow dispersion. The design and development by a few enthusiasts of this technology has largly removed these limitations. I found the dynamics and voice reproduction so suited to movies that the seed of a commercial idea was sown. The development of the Frugelhorn Mk3 gave the domestically acceptable design and tolerance of placement that I was looking for to realise that idea.

The sub plot is to show and make available just what can be achieved with the system equivalent of point-to-point wiring.

This venture would not have happened without the education and contacts I've had through AoS.
If anyone in the south east would like to come and check it out on behalf of the forum, you're more than welcome.

[Firebottle]

Good luck Steve, I really hope it takes off for you.

I did toy with the idea of building valve amps commercially some while back, but the start up wonga needed to do it properly was sadly missing :(

:cool: Alan

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Nice website Steve, I can only imagine the guy who designed that was some sort of genius ;)

[electric beach]

Yeah, top job mate. And a bloody nice bloke! I'd put that copywriter on a retainer sharpish though ;)

[The Vinyl Adventure]

haha...

Pleased you like it anyway! :)

[julesd68]

Hang on, something wrong here - a hi-fi designer actually thinking about web-site design? And trying to offer great value for money?? :mental:

[electric beach]

Doomed to failure :doh:

To be fair though, I'm no designer, well only cosmetics. Merely presenting the great designs of others in an accessible form. Maybe I can be excused.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Hang on, something wrong here - a hi-fi designer actually thinking about web-site design? And trying to offer great value for money?? :mental:

The audiophile industry is so backward when it comes to web design it makes my job easy ... especially for people like Steve!
Stunning looking speakers where easy to take photos of, then we just built the site around the pictures and made it do some snazzy scrolling ... easy, but effective

[John]

Wishing you all the best in the venture
I heard a bit of what Steve was doing last summer and was very impressed by the sound and finish
I look forward to popping over again and sharing my thoughts

[julesd68]

PM sent to Hamish

[MartinT]

I wish you all the very best of luck in your new venture, Steve.

I just last week constructed a pair of small speakers based on the Fostex FF125WK so I know how good the sound is from these full range drivers. Horn loading and small amps sound the perfect way to go for 'alternative' AV sound.

[electric beach]

Thanks Martin.

I think that for many people, myself included, first exposure to single drivers is a shock to expectations and assumptions. I think this stems partly from thinking 'right, what am I going to lose here' rather than what can be gained. It's just a different set of compromises. And still about synergy to create something greater than the sum of the parts.

Of course there are limitations - but not ones I reach in a domestic situation. I can play louder than anyone wants me to, while continuing a conversation as I peel the children from the ceiling :eek:

With players like the Oppo moving towards an entertainment hub, taking decoding away from traditional receivers, a musical amp is all that's needed for a credible combined system. I've still got a powerhouse in the sub and the Oppo ousted the Squeezebox Touch in less than a song.


John, I should be able to confirm that session next week. I have an imminent grandson trying to join the party...

[John]

NW Steve I can be flexiable

[Covenant]

I got a virus warning about that Enjoy the Music review for the Dared amplifier.

[Mark Grant]

So did I, it's not a virus warning though but a security certificate error at enjoy the music as the link tries to go to a https page when it just needs to be http.

[Mark Grant]

www.electricbeachaudio.com

This venture would not have happened without the education and contacts I've had through AoS.


Good luck Steve and it's good to hear that people helped :)

[keiths]

Very good luck with this venture Steve - as an FH3 fan, it's good to see them getting a wider audience than just the diy crowd. Your FH3s are by far the nicest looking ones I've seen.

[electric beach]

Thanks Keith :)

The Frugels are a great shape and construction to style with. They certainly cause a few surprises don't they. I have to keep proving that the sub is actually turned off :stalks:

[electric beach]

Thanks Jerry & Mark

We'll correct the link on our site :doh:

[Alex_UK]

Good luck with the new venture Steve - doff my cap to anyone who "gets on their bike" as it were.

[daytona600]

all the best in the future steve , products look very nice indeed
step up from the usual AV reciever systems found in the high street

safe link for the 5.1 AV/Sacd amplifier if enjoythemusic link has a virus warning

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dared4/dared.html

[electric beach]

step up from the usual AV reciever systems found in the high street


Just a little bit ;)

I'm surprised at how many people are telling me they bought the obligatory 'surround sound' with or for their new flatscreen and now it sits unused. You know more than most Scott, just how addictive and involving single driver horn speakers are for viewing.

However, the most satisfying thing for me is that my original idea, thought, whatever, has proved correct in practice. Sound for the TV is given purchasing priority; there's the impressive and dramatic demo in the shop, but many TVs don't have any budget put into their internal sound now, as it's expected that people will add a surround sound system. My Philips 50" plasma sound is quite unusable.

Trying to verbally convince someone of the pleasure and fascination of a decent music system is received as evangelical and obsessive. But when I've placed a system with someone claiming to have little interest in the music replay potential, it's exactly that side which blows them away. When they start asking me to recommend artists or albums with good recording quality that they can get - well, they're hooked.

[Covenant]

No hdmi?

[electric beach]

Good luck with the new venture Steve - doff my cap to anyone who "gets on their bike" as it were.

Thanks Alex.

Needs must when the Devil farts in your kettle (Rowan)

[electric beach]

No hdmi?

Don't hit you? :confused:

[Covenant]

Don't hit you? :confused:

Sorry, don't understand that. :scratch:

[electric beach]

My apologies Jerry, just my silly southern humour. I heard a Scottish accent saying no-hd-mi / no-hit-me. I'll stay off the coffee a bit :rolleyes:

Seriously, fair point. You do need analogue outputs from a source. There are HDMI convertors available but players like the latest Oppo, which I use, are an absolute perfect partner for a minimalist, high performance 'entertainment hub'.

I guess Dared have focussed on maximising sound quality by drawing the line at Audio Only. It seems to have worked ;)

[daytona600]

most decent bluray/dvd players like oppo/marantz have 5.1 analogue outs , just feed these directly into the AV amp

[jandl100]

I've only just seen this thread! :doh:

Best of luck, Steve :thumbsup: - a very interesting approach, I reckon.

The website looks good - but I must admit that I find some of the text a bit small, I kind of have to peer at it to read it properly. It's a bit of a strain on my standard laptop screen, might be worth thinking about increasing the font size on the smaller text?

[rubber duck]

I've only just seen this thread! :doh:


Me too. I have a soft spot for efficient speakers. Am I the only one who can't locate details of this speaker? Sensitivity, load, frequency response, dimensions...?

[Ali Tait]

Some info here-

http://www.frugal-horn.com/Frugel-Horn.html

[rubber duck]

Thanks. Had another read again. Bass output is 75Hz, corner loaded, but no additional info on load and sensitivity.

[Ali Tait]

Depends on the driver used. Alpair 6 is about 89 - 90db, not high sensitivity but an easy load and a good driver. I have a pair of DMarKens using this driver. Can be driven to high levels with 6w/ch. Driver in a horn will obviously raise the sensitivity.

[John]

I took up Steve offer to visit
It was a really nice session and stayed for about 4 hours.
The Fugal horns are amazing speakers they have no right to have the transparency and soundstage they have and finish of them is really good. There were a few surprises
1) The Dared amp I would of never imagined a hybrid amp sounding so good
2) The Oppo player using a external HD for music. It may make me rethink my whole approach towards digital playback if it performs at the same level in my own system.
The time passed quickly no sense of fatigue and great conversation
Cheers Steve
Well worth a visit for a different take on Audio, and movies

[electric beach]

I've only just seen this thread! :doh:

Best of luck, Steve :thumbsup: - a very interesting approach, I reckon.

The website looks good - but I must admit that I find some of the text a bit small, I kind of have to peer at it to read it properly. It's a bit of a strain on my standard laptop screen, might be worth thinking about increasing the font size on the smaller text?

Hamish is just working on this, it's an issue with how different browsers are picking up different fonts and adjusting for screen sizes and resolutions. I couldn't agree more - I don't know what it says and I wrote it!

[electric beach]

Depends on the driver used. Alpair 6 is about 89 - 90db, not high sensitivity but an easy load and a good driver. I have a pair of DMarKens using this driver. Can be driven to high levels with 6w/ch. Driver in a horn will obviously raise the sensitivity.

I haven't tried the A6 Ali, but as you know the A7 and CH70s are about 86db. Although an easy load, I find that lower powered amps, including the 2020 chip that I love, just don't have the necessary to develop what is possible.
I would try the A6 in the hunt for efficiency, but now that I have the DV-6C it's not necessary.

I came at this idea wanting to make an accessible version of the horn speaker/ SET amp sound. The Frugels gave the vehicle and the 2020 chip with a valve pre gave the sound - but not together :(
The DV-6C is a triode preamp with a 35w per channel musical chip :)

My 6' double mouthed Sachikos with their 8" drivers, 2.5w SET amp and 35w KT88 beast have all left the room sulking. They all do certain things better of course, but as a real world, real living room compromise I think this is a result that is true to my intention.

[electric beach]

I took up Steve offer to visit
It was a really nice session and stayed for about 4 hours.
The Fugal horns are amazing speakers they have no right to have the transparency and soundstage they have and finish of them is really good. There were a few surprises
1) The Dared amp I would of never imagined a hybrid amp sounding so good
2) The Oppo player using a external HD for music. It may make me rethink my whole approach towards digital playback if it performs at the same level in my own system.
The time passed quickly no sense of fatigue and great conversation
Cheers Steve
Well worth a visit for a different take on Audio, and movies

You're welcome John, time spent with you is always informative and takes me one more step forward.

Don't be too hard on your laptop development. I tried the suggestion made here recently for alternate speaker placement - firing across my room instead of down it and that near-field presentation had a lot more attack from the same equipment. Maybe as you listen near field at home it's why you didn't hear all you expected?

[John]

Yes perhaps but need to be certain so will have to try out the Oppo with external HD just to see what was going on
Its figuring out the cause and seeing if I need to take action

[Ali Tait]

I haven't tried the A6 Ali, but as you know the A7 and CH70s are about 86db. Although an easy load, I find that lower powered amps, including the 2020 chip that I love, just don't have the necessary to develop what is possible.
I would try the A6 in the hunt for efficiency, but now that I have the DV-6C it's not necessary.

I came at this idea wanting to make an accessible version of the horn speaker/ SET amp sound. The Frugels gave the vehicle and the 2020 chip with a valve pre gave the sound - but not together :(
The DV-6C is a triode preamp with a 35w per channel musical chip :)

My 6' double mouthed Sachikos with their 8" drivers, 2.5w SET amp and 35w KT88 beast have all left the room sulking. They all do certain things better of course, but as a real world, real living room compromise I think this is a result that is true to my intention.

The Dared looks an interesting bit of kit Steve, I think some of the more modern chips surpass the Tripath ones. I like the Analogue Devices chip in my Bantam Golds (fed from my WD Pre 3)

[electric beach]

The Dared looks an interesting bit of kit Steve, I think some of the more modern chips surpass the Tripath ones. I like the Analogue Devices chip in my Bantam Golds (fed from my WD Pre 3)

Yesterday with John we compared his amp against the Dared. He has the Bantam Gold board with the Snagle attenuator instead of the preamp stage. It's a damn impressive device that the Mini-T couldn't even get close enough for comparison. We struggled to seperate the Dared though, a little richer tonally due to the Triode pre. I thought his amp had maybe a touch more attack, but it was so close that considering the attenuator in play, the fact that they were even comparable said a lot for this hybrid design and it's execution.

Like you, I've always been impressed with the combo of chip amp with valve pre. I could never retain that clarity and musicality when the power started climbing though. The smaller Fostex drivers (or any that I've heard) just don't have the bass without large horns and drivers for the Frugels which do have the bass are not particularly sensitive.

I wish you lived closer...;)

[John]

Yes the Dared was really nice and agree with Steve summary

[Ali Tait]

Yesterday with John we compared his amp against the Dared. He has the Bantam Gold board with the Snagle attenuator instead of the preamp stage. It's a damn impressive device that the Mini-T couldn't even get close enough for comparison. We struggled to seperate the Dared though, a little richer tonally due to the Triode pre. I thought his amp had maybe a touch more attack, but it was so close that considering the attenuator in play, the fact that they were even comparable said a lot for this hybrid design and it's execution.

Like you, I've always been impressed with the combo of chip amp with valve pre. I could never retain that clarity and musicality when the power started climbing though. The smaller Fostex drivers (or any that I've heard) just don't have the bass without large horns and drivers for the Frugels which do have the bass are not particularly sensitive.

I wish you lived closer...;)

Aye, I'd like to try the Dared on the OB's. Like you say, chip amps with a valve pre are a good combo. Running the speakers actively is a good thing too IMHO, gives me a chance to fiddle with valve amps running the B200's, with one of the Golds running each pair of 15" Eminences from 200Hz down. Tell you what though, I never really miss the valve amps when I go back to a pair of Golds running the speaks. They even got some favourable comments at the last Owston!

[brian2957]

I'm using a a dared I30 valve amp with a built-in DAC . I'm listening to it just now and it's very good indeed.:)

[daytona600]

the dared DV-6C is a 5.1 amp , you could tri-amp your speakers if using 2ch
output stage from memory is a philips SS input section is valve triode
or multichannel sacd/dvd-a sound great in 5.1

[John]

Yes Steve was using it in different formats First time I heard something that sounded good with both music and films

[electric beach]

John, have you seen the review?

http://hifipig.com/electricbeach-frugel3-loudspeaker/

Obviously I'm chuffed to bits, some really great comment on both the amp and the speakers. The direct coupling to the driver easily shows every little change you make in the system.

[John]

Its a great write up. I wish I could be so poetic with words and resonates well with what I heard
A really great sounding system that would compare well to systems costing many times its price. I love how simple it is to set up in different rooms

[Ali Tait]

Nice one Steve, well done, pleased for you.

[electric beach]

Cheers Ali
I've heard Steve's/ your OB's so I know you'd like it ;)

Reassuring to hear it echoed what you heard John.

I'm most pleased that the modular idea works so well, which was a fundamental. To have speakers with such communicative ability in a basic, accessible set up, yet rewarding every electronics upgrade without becoming the weak link.
Two of these cheeky monkeys sat side by side and wired in series make your face ache from all the smiling :) :) :(

[Ali Tait]

Aye, more diy fun this weekend, off to Owston tomorrow.

[John]

I might try and travel up
Let me know the address again

[MartinT]

I'm looking forward to hearing them, Steve.

[Ali Tait]

[QUOTE=John;454788]I might try and travel up
Let me know the address again[/QUOTE

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g187067-d2543311-Reviews-Owston_Park_Lodge-Doncaster_South_Yorkshire_England.html

Be good to see you if you could make it John.

[John]

If I come I bring the slagle Bantam amp

[Ali Tait]

Aye, that would be good. Just so you know, we share the cost of the event, it's usually a tenner for Saturday, which includes lunch. Sunday is a fiver with no lunch, but is a lot quieter, usually just the diehards. A better day for experimenting though.

[Mark Grant]

John, have you seen the review?

http://hifipig.com/electricbeach-frugel3-loudspeaker/

Obviously I'm chuffed to bits, some really great comment on both the amp and the speakers. The direct coupling to the driver easily shows every little change you make in the system.

Great review and well done. :cool:

The reviewer certainly has a way with words that keeps it interesting.

[John]

My only concern would be I would not be around till 2 or 3 so would miss lunch
I must admit I am tempted to come up but its a good drive