Inspire Acri-mat ??

[mido]

Has anyone used one of these?

Is it a viable alternative to the Funk Firm Achromat?

(It's a lot cheaper :))

Thanks,

Frank

[nat8808]

Is it just a disc of acrylic?

Then again, the Achromat is just a disc of sign making material.

[Clive]

Acrylic mats have an upper-mid brightness, which is fine if that's what your system needs to balance it.

[mido]

Acrylic mats have an upper-mid brightness, which is fine if that's what your system needs to balance it.

Thanks, I remember somebody saying something very similar.

I definitely don't need or want that!!

Perhaps I should spend my money on something else completely, like records :)

[Audioman]

Is it just a disc of acrylic?

Then again, the Achromat is just a disc of sign making material.

So anyone doing their own 'Acromat' isn't breaking any patents except for the name. They must cost pence to make.

[synsei]

oh, not that old chestnut again, it's just a disk of plastic... :doh:

[UV101]

Interesting turn of favour.............. I got mine after positive comments on here!!!!!!

[synsei]

Perhaps I should expand on my comment as it is a bit simplistic: What I meant is that any acrylic mat is going to give the same benefits... ;)

EDIT: I expect Marco will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong... :D

[twotone]

Acrylic mats have an upper-mid brightness, which is fine if that's what your system needs to balance it.

I've got one of these Inspire Acri Mats on my TT (AR The legend) I bought the TT with it.

What would normally be on the TT, a rubber mat, if so would it be worth getting one to try?

Thanks

Tony

[Clive]

I've got one of these Inspire Acri Mats on my TT (AR The legend) I bought the TT with it.

What would normally be on the TT, a rubber mat, if so would it be worth getting one to try?

Thanks

Tony
I was originally responding to the comment about the mat maybe being acrylic. I see now that the mat being discussed is not acrylic or if it is it's "blown acrylic". The only decent thing to do is get the original Achromat.

If your AR platter rings then rubber can be good. Sometimes it deadens the sound as well as the ringing. I can't say what it'll do for your deck.

[seoirse2002]

Ive said it befoe and Im saying it again....go out to a local charity shop and buy the lightest and cheapest old vinyl that you can....clean it up as much as poss and use it as a mat....Ive tried it with heavy vinyl and medium too but the really light cheapo type (ktel etc.) works best.....and it wont cost you anything to give it a try:)

[twotone]

Thanks Clive.

[nat8808]

So anyone doing their own 'Acromat' isn't breaking any patents except for the name. They must cost pence to make.

It's made from a foamed vinyl material that is readily available for use as other things - can't imagine they came up with the chemical formula and had a petrochemical company produce sheets of it, can you? Not just for record mats..

So then can you patent simply using a material for something? Of course if has a design to it, other than being circular, which couldn't be copied. Doubt it would be pence though. And how much does it cost to get loads of acrylic discs made, and can they patent that? Just a circle with hole in the middle.

Personally I don't think you can patent the use of a readily available material cut into a simple shape. Think you could only patent a more complicated design.

In my view, SO many hifi accessories are nothing more than using a certain industrial material that someone has come across in some work sphere and then decides to get cut to a certain shape and sold at a massive profit. Was looking at some £1400 speaker platforms that someone had the other day - just inch thick laminate pieces with some indentations CNC'd for the ball bearings. Torlyte - a paper honey-combed desk making material you can buy in massive sheets and just close the ends with formica strips. Celestion's AlphaCrystal (R) is Jesmonite (TM), an arts material. Corian used to be equally unknown when hifi companies claimed it to be special.. Townshend thingy-sinc metal sheeting with bike inner tubes.

You pay a massive premium for being an audiophile.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well this part can be true:


You pay a massive premium for being an audiophile.

But you can patent the specific use of a material in an application if no-one else has beaten you to it.

[nat8808]

Well this part can be true:



But you can patent the specific use of a material in an application if no-one else has beaten you to it.

Are you sure? Then can you sell the same thing but not specifiy what people do with it?

If I make a 12" disc of acrylic with a hole in the middle then I can patent it as a place mat whilst someone else holds a seperate patent for the exact same thing but as a TT mat?

I could understand a particular shape being patented if it's not a regular shape like a circle.

Also, with the Acromat, it would also mean that any sign maker cutting out a circle would also be breaking a patent

"Sorry mate, we don't do 'O's or 'Q's for that matter, just in case"

[nat8808]

I've been bored obviously..

Don't think either mat can be patented other than by their look: the indent and sticker.

Info from Intellectual Property Office:


What is a Registered Design?
Legal definition of "design"

A Registered Design is a legal right which protects the overall visual appearance of a product or a part of a product in the country or countries you register it.

For the purposes of registration, a design is legally defined as being "the appearance of the whole or part of a product resulting from the features of, in particular, the lines, contours, colours, shape, texture or materials of the product or ornamentation."

This means that protection is given to the way a product looks. The appearance of your product may result from a combination of elements such as shapes, colours and materials.

References to texture and materials does not mean that protection may be granted for the feel of a texture, or what the product is actually made from; only that these features may influence what the overall product looks like.Equally, design registration cannot protect non-stylised wording (ie. basic text), the way something works, or the idea or concept behind a product.


Is your design dictated by the product’s technical function or dimensions?

In some circumstances we may object to your design being registered because the functionality or necessary form and dimensions take away the freedom of the designer to be creative.

Technical function

Sometimes the shape and appearance of a design is solely dictated by the function it must perform, e.g. a key for a lock. We will object to your design if there is only one possible way for the product to look as a result of its technical function.

Necessary form and dimensions

Sometimes a product must be produced in its exact form and dimensions in order to be mechanically connected to, or fit in, around or against another item (eg. a wing for a car). We will object to your design if this is the case.

That's true for a record mat. The design is dictated by its form and function - 12" circle with spindle hole in the middle.

[The Grand Wazoo]

You obviously weren't that bored(!) as you didn't find this info from Patent Office:


Abstract of GB2415824 (A)

Sound reproduction apparatus comprises a turntable 1 having a surface 4 for supporting a disk record 10 has at least a region 18 of the surface 4 made from a material which has a plurality of voids and an acoustic impedance which is matched to that of the record 10. Such a support surface material provides advantageous dampening properties. The material of the region 18 may be a foamed material such as foamed PVC, may be less rigid than the remainder of turntable 1, and may have a thickness of between 2 and 6 mm. The entire turntable (fig 2, 1) may be made from such a foamed material, having a plurality of voids.

[nat8808]

I didnt find that at the time, though had since..

A very dubious patent IMO!

If you read that and then read his expired patent from the 80s, they differ only by virtue of this extra layer of the material with plurality of voids which may be this or that (vague) then mentions brand names meaning the material already exists and isn't part of the patent, only using it in this particular situation is.

However, read the description of the patent and the claim within, and it is about a system as a whole with the foamed PVC as part of this system - not the foamed PVC mat as a separate entity. And yet the system being described is in the main exactly as his previous patent which expired in 1989 and is now prior art because of that expiration. It even refers to that expired patent to get the key for the diagram (cos it's virtually the same).

As I read somewhere, patent offices aren't concerned with invalidity or accession - that's only the concern of legal proceedings of people's own private time and money.

I.e. I think Arthur's been using a dubious patent to scare people out of copying rather than it being valid - a strong sounding threat of legal action is often more influential than real action.. Think Teknomat tried to sell one, although they made it look the same too which might have been a branding copyright issue.

Odd too that FunkFirm's address includes EPS in it who are a plastics cutting company.. I wonder if FunkFirm would sue them for making stylised letter Os that happend to be 12" in diameter with a 7mm centre hole for a sign? Wonder what would happen if asked them for hundreds to fit out stores of "Oooooooo" The Plumbers around the country, haha.

[JazzBones]

This turntable mat business is very intriguing. How would it affect a TT mat made of felt as used by Linn, Rega etc, and the first manufacturer to use felt cut 12" diameter with a 7.2mm centre hole? I would imagine it would be impossible to obtain a patent on this? So I can't see how one could seek a patent on any other material used for vinyl support, ie cork, plastic etc. Where I can see a patent being applied is on the Oyaide mat which has a specific hole pattern machined into its design.

[nat8808]

That's how I see it too..

I would have only thought complicated designs would be patentable, like Sony's mat that had some kind of oil sandwiched inside - found that patent the other day too, didn't check if it had expired.

With the FunkFirm patent, I can see it working if the original idea was to make a deck with a platter that had a top layer of foamed PVC, whether removable or not, have that as your deck design and patent that as a whole. However, the patent was applied for in 2004, granted in 2007. I can see a lot happening in 3 years, including a change of marketing plan and need for steady cash flow besides the more risky, expensive deck sales - wasn't the Achromat one of Funk Firm's first products along with the PT upgrades? - but by then you're stuck with the original patent or have to apply again, living with the risk that it will be successfully challenged before it's granted - quite likely given the prior art of all other basic platter mats, including label indentations and it being just a necessary shape to fit the purpose etc etc. An already granted patent, valid or not, will easily scare off weaker (read less wealthy! ) competition and keep you relatively safe.

Personally I think you can make a basic mat of any material and sell it without risk - just comes down to cost/competition in the end which can only benefit the consumer.

The hifi world isn't so into the competition driving down prices model though - audiophiles often hate paying cheap prices for things as they then feel it can't possibly work if it's not expensive enough! Cheap is the realm of the great hi-fi unwashed!

[nat8808]

Searching patents is fantastic for the DIYer, i've been discovering.

There are a couple of good turntable design patents from Jack Disdale of the University of Cranfield who came up with the Townshend Rock turntable concept which Townshend then put into production - the patent for the paddle etc shows it was designed by him. A nice oil bearing there too with direct drive.

Came across a related New Scientist article about university inventions which mentions that the Rock was originally designed at the university to be made with a granite/epoxy concrete but it was too expensive to manufacture so they settled on cheaper plaster instead.. Would be interesting to make one with Granitan as it was then called. The oil bearing design was also meant to be part of it but for some reason the patent on that was a problem so ended up with a ballbearing design. All compromises any DIYer doesn't have to make.

[JazzBones]

........ All compromises any DIYer doesn't have to make.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. Failure won't kill you and successes will save you a lot of money and give huge job satisfaction to boot. I'm sure in the age when audiophiles made their own equipment and modified commercially available products such as the vinyl spinner no one gave a hoot about whether the mat they came up with was patterned or not. Guess we have lost the fun factor when we 'rolled our own'.