PDA

View Full Version : Mike's ever changing system...



Pages : [1] 2 3

Mike
29-03-2009, 15:57
Here's a quick piccy of how my system looks at the moment.

There is still much fiddling to be done! :eyebrows:



http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7812/p3292947.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-03-29

jon1
29-03-2009, 16:02
Here's a quick piccy of how my system looks at the moment.

There is still much fiddling to be done! :eyebrows:



http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7812/p3292947.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-03-29



Nice one mike ....I know you said you where going to bulldoze your room around ..But did you need a crane to lift those electrosatics in:eyebrows:



jon

pjdowns
29-03-2009, 16:23
mmmm,

Nice Martin Logan's. How do you rate them ? I have considered the Vantage !!!!

Spectral Morn
29-03-2009, 16:51
Here's a quick piccy of how my system looks at the moment.

There is still much fiddling to be done! :eyebrows:



http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7812/p3292947.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-03-29

BIG.......VERY BIG......HUGE.....MASSIVE.....ENORMOUS.....GIGANTI C.....;)

That reach out and touch soundstage must be on your lap....in fact is there even room to sit and listen.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Regards D S D L

PS My wife says hello.

Beechwoods
29-03-2009, 17:44
Blimey.

scoobs
29-03-2009, 18:20
Strewth Mike! I bet your soundstage is rather full on and positively fizzes with life! Would love to hear that. Nice one.

Mike
29-03-2009, 18:49
Well, err, actually it's not very good to be brutally honest.

Mr Liang gets tired and emotional under the strain in to time at all! :lol:

There is a good point though; the sound-stage. Those ML's paint an amazing three dimensional picture and just hang it in the air in front of you. But the high end is a bit on the soft side (that'll be the 2 ohm HF impedance) and the bass is not under control at all. The whole thing is all a bit 'woolly'.

An amplification rethink may be in order if I want to make the most of them. :scratch:

Beechwoods
29-03-2009, 18:56
Options options options. It's all a fun part of the process! I'll be interested to see what conclusions you come to. Will valves be man enough for the job?
:uhho: :sofa:

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
29-03-2009, 20:51
Mike

Those ML's look quite familiar seem to have seen them somewhere before :)

Andy - SDDW

Darren
29-03-2009, 20:59
An amplification rethink may be in order if I want to make the most of them. :scratch:

I bet it's back to solid state for you Mike. The pair of logans that I had only sounded any good with some serious current passing through them.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
29-03-2009, 21:52
Mike

If you want a loan/buy this 52 kg beast :smoking:;

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/AudioAMaestro.jpg

Let me know, I know it drives the ML's no probs,

170W into 8 Ohms
625 W into 2 Ohms


Andy - SDDW

Mike
29-03-2009, 22:23
Let me know, I know it drives the ML's no probs,

170W into 8 Ohms
625 W into 2 Ohms


Andy - SDDW

Bejeezus! :uhho:

Erm, yes please. :)

Not sure my back can take much more of this malarkey! :D

Mike
29-03-2009, 22:25
I bet it's back to solid state for you Mike. The pair of logans that I had only sounded any good with some serious current passing through them.

Sadly (?) that may well be the case... A nice valve pre-amp might help soothe the pain though. :)

Mike
29-03-2009, 23:34
Will valves be man enough for the job?
:uhho: :sofa:

I'd like to think so Beechy... but I fear my pockets may not be deep enough for such 'hollow state' beasties that might be up to the job. :(

Ali Tait
30-03-2009, 08:21
Mike,if you have an active pre,try using that to drive the Liang.See if that improves things,as the driver stage is underrun in this amp.When I get round to coming over with the 813,I could bring the MF A370 too,so you can see which is more suited,valves or sand.I think you will be quite shocked by the Audioromy though! :)

Mike
30-03-2009, 16:48
I think you will be quite shocked by the Audioromy though! :)

I hope so Ali. :)

But I've a feeling these things might need something more akin to an arc welder up em! :eyebrows:

jon1
30-03-2009, 16:52
Mike i have a few spare amps you can try ...from mono blocks to a three channel amp....and quad 405 fully upgraded:eyebrows:



jon

A.N.
30-03-2009, 17:08
ime, you dont need super wattage solid state to drive logans properly. they do need current and lots of it, but watts are a different matter. i drove my logans with a 35w valve amp and they sounded superb. you've got a great pair of speakers there, nice 1. :)

Mike
30-03-2009, 17:52
ime, you dont need super wattage solid state to drive logans properly. they do need current and lots of it, but watts are a different matter. i drove my logans with a 35w valve amp and they sounded superb. you've got a great pair of speakers there, nice 1. :)


Indeed, hence my quip about 'arc welders'! ;)

Shame I just sold my 35W valve amp then! :lol:

To be fair, I bought them with full knowledge that the panels could well be on their last legs, but at the price they we're going for I'd have been an idiot to turn them down. If I have to fork out for new ones I'll still have a cracking pair of 'static' hybrids for a very reasonable price, even if I end up paying Absolute Sounds' prices. :)

Darren
30-03-2009, 21:31
ime, you dont need super wattage solid state to drive logans properly. they do need current and lots of it, but watts are a different matter. i drove my logans with a 35w valve amp and they sounded superb. you've got a great pair of speakers there, nice 1. :)

But did they have much loudness and dynamic capability AN? All the Logans I've heard have been terribly inefficient and I cant see 35w providing much in the way of headroom. ( Genuine question by the way - I'm not trying to wind you up or rubbish your experience)

Ali Tait
31-03-2009, 08:54
Not sure how the ease of drive differs to my ER Audio statics,but I would guess they are broadly similar,and the 813 drives them with what I can only describe as disdainful ease.Volume is never past 10 o clock.Quoted power is 45w,but I reckon more like 30 ish.

A.N.
31-03-2009, 14:15
But did they have much loudness and dynamic capability AN? All the Logans I've heard have been terribly inefficient and I cant see 35w providing much in the way of headroom. ( Genuine question by the way - I'm not trying to wind you up or rubbish your experience)

definately, even more so than driven with 2 of my old linn lk280's. an icon audio drove them ok too, although volume was limited as was the bass. didnt have the grip. my aerius i's dropped to 1.7ohms (iirc) and it really wasnt a problem for the unisis. great amp imo :)

pulsestudio
01-04-2009, 21:37
Hi Mike, where are you based mate?? I have a 1000VA dual mono block Avondale amp, all homebrew, with 22,000uF on each rail and a current reserve of around 10A per channel, it kicks out 80 watts of sheer musical pleasure, if you want to have a bake off with it let me know, and if it's not too far I could pop round with it, towing it my trailer to your place, it weighs in at a fair rate too, are you familiar with the Avondale amps??
It has such a huge in-rush current even with a 30 amp surge guard arrester fitted I have to power it up with the speakers disconnected, or voice coils hit the opposite wall,
I am in Oxfordshire.

Paul

Mike
01-04-2009, 22:57
Hi Paul,

Many thanks for the offer, but I'm up in the north east on the edge of the Cleveland hills. A bit too far away I think!

Cheers...

jandl100
02-04-2009, 22:09
I run my ML CLSiiz full range stats with a Bel Canto eVo4 power - 400wpc of hefty class D. It sounds superb to my humble ears. :)

Mike
03-04-2009, 14:33
Hey!... there's a bit missing!

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2199/p4032970.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-04-03


I'm off to Scotchland for a week or so on holiday, and while I'm away the motor unit is visiting Vantage Audio for it's own little sojourn.

Hopefully it'll be back within a couple of weeks fully serviced and with a bit of a rework of the PSU! :)

I'll report all in due course. ;)

Ali Tait
03-04-2009, 15:12
Whereabouts are you holidaying Mike?

Mike
03-04-2009, 15:49
Whereabouts are you holidaying Mike?

I can't remember the name of the place Ali! :lol:

Somewhere just north west of that big pond where Nessie lives. :)

Spectral Morn
03-04-2009, 16:10
Hi Mike

Have a good time. Not the Black Isle, Beauly, Cromarty? I love that part of Scotland. Alas no Easter holiday for Mr & Mrs Dalek Supreme this time. Money to tight to mention. We usually go this weekend for a week. Twice a year every year for the last 10 years. We have a friends marriage to go to in sept so we will spend some time in Edinburgh and then up to where you are going.....thats the plan anyway.

Say Hi to Nessie.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/62/Skarasen.jpg/250px-Skarasen.jpg

and her masters

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_26rsJj4ta3o/STJcTnNkM7I/AAAAAAAAAIc/77_o5OKALzc/s320/Zygon.jpg



Regards D S D L

Prince of Darkness
03-04-2009, 18:04
Quite friendly fellows, those Zygons.:)

DSJR
03-04-2009, 18:16
...Another video to educate my son with. We had the Robots Of Death last week and after some kicking and screaming, he loves it....

"...Please don't throw hands at me...."

Spectral Morn
03-04-2009, 18:56
Any excuse to slide the better Dr Who stuff in....:sorry:


Have a good time in Scotland and watch out for that STING of the Zygons. Wrong time of year for midges.



Regards D S D L

Mike
06-06-2009, 16:57
A few small changes to the MH system... :)


http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2295/p1263341.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-06


http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4614/p1263342.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-06

Must fix those bloody skirting boards and redecorate the room sometime...

Beechwoods
06-06-2009, 17:03
Um... does the cork have any special function, Mike?

Mike
06-06-2009, 17:04
Obviously! :eyebrows:

Marco
06-06-2009, 17:16
I love the funny wee speakers on either side of your rack!

Marco.

Mike
06-06-2009, 17:20
I love the funny wee speakers on either side of your rack!

Marco.

Very heavy, rare and expensive. You wouldn't believe how long they took to make or how old they are. Make your 'vintage' Tannoys look like like wee young seedlings! :smoking:

Marco
06-06-2009, 17:27
Did you get hungry half-way through the project and eat them? :eyebrows:

Marco.

lonergan2468
06-06-2009, 18:51
Well, err, actually it's not very good to be brutally honest.

Mr Liang gets tired and emotional under the strain in to time at all! :lol:

There is a good point though; the sound-stage. Those ML's paint an amazing three dimensional picture and just hang it in the air in front of you. But the high end is a bit on the soft side (that'll be the 2 ohm HF impedance) and the bass is not under control at all. The whole thing is all a bit 'woolly'.

An amplification rethink may be in order if I want to make the most of them. :scratch:

Martin Logans have destroyed many a transistor amp, they can dip down to 1 Ohm. I find that mu NAD C275 drives them well indeed.

Mike
06-06-2009, 19:14
Funny you should say that! I've been reading all about this and having a bit of a think. :)

Seems I've been barking up the wrong tree with this. My current understanding is that this 2ohm (or less) issue with ESL panels is at high frequencies where the impedance is almost purely resistive. And indeed valves are rather better at coping with this that transistors!

The problem valves struggle with, and where transistors cope better, is reactive loads at low frequencies. Such as the coil on the back of a cone moving about in a strong magnetic field. And the gubbins in the crossover of course!

My thoughts these days are occupied with ideas of bi-amping the Logans with a mix of valves for pre amp and the power amp feeding the panels, and the Audio Analogue on bass duties (fed from the same pre)... :smoking:

Anyone?

lonergan2468
06-06-2009, 19:32
I want to try my sons modified Quad 405 mono bridged amps with the QuestZ, and might do this tonight as his pre is away for upgrading. The op of the quads is 200 wt in to 8. I recall a few months back I was using Audiolab 8000M monoblocks x 4, and was having a bit of a boogie, turned around and one power amp was up in flames! I find the system a tad brightish and this gets to me, or am i just getting older and hearing is changing. The quads are warmer, and they drive his TDL Studio 0.75m very nicely indeed. Any advice before I baege in to his bedroom and take his Quads.

Mike
06-06-2009, 19:38
Give it a go! :eyebrows:

lonergan2468
06-06-2009, 19:44
Give it a go! :eyebrows:

YESSSSS; I will:idea:

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
06-06-2009, 20:24
My thoughts these days are occupied with ideas of bi-amping the Logans with a mix of valves for pre amp and the power amp feeding the panels, and the Audio Analogue on bass duties (fed from the same pre)... :smoking:

Anyone?

Mike

I would give that a try to be honest, you could get the best of both worlds.

The control of the Solid State and the openness and delicacy of valves.

The big bonus for you would be having the Audio Analogue (I wonder which nice man you got that from then :)) and the level control it has, you can then level match the different amps with not too much trouble.

Let me know when you are doing it and I'll be round for a listen. As a trial I could alway bring the Almarro round.

As for your soft top end, what about a try of the Super Tweeter I have and aren't currently using. Might be worth a play with.

Andy - SDDW

Mike
06-06-2009, 21:28
I wonder which nice man you got that from then :)

Indeed!

This place is rapidly turning into a retirement home for old Donkeys... :lol:

Beechwoods
06-06-2009, 21:30
I wish I had a mate with such great taste in gear he wanted to get rid of!

Mike
06-06-2009, 21:31
As for your soft top end, what about a try of the Super Tweeter I have and aren't currently using. Might be worth a play with.

It'd be interesting to try that TBH. I've got a couple of things to try with the crossovers and some panel 'refreshment techniques'(!) too.

Should be entertaining I think... :)

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
06-06-2009, 22:29
Mike

Just drop by and pick them up when you are ready.

Andy - SDDW

Primalsea
07-06-2009, 07:06
Hi Mike,

If the top end is a bit soft have you tried adjusting the feet so that the panels of the ML's are vertical? The panels are very directional and ML design them so that they tilt backwards which send most of the treble over your head. Tilting them forwards so they point straight at you makes a huge difference.

Be careful if SS amps on these as well. The huge ones which can easily delivery loads of current will be OK but smaller ones can get very hot as they cant handle the high load at high frequencies. I know cause I nearly blew an amp in such a way!!

lonergan2468
07-06-2009, 10:53
I am seriously thinking of getting a Valve power amp to run mu Martin Logans. There is still something annoying me in the treble area. Mind you I do have michell cones undernrath them and then they are on granite plinths. Think I will remove the Michell cones. But any advice on a valve power amp suitable to run the Quest Z please, not too expensive. Thanks. Currently I am selling a pair of ATC SCM19 which are new, I did not like tham, and this should help fund a new power amp.

DSJR
07-06-2009, 11:22
I know the Studio 0.75M's very well and know what can happen on the end of a SINGLE 405-2, let alone a bridged pair.....

Firstly, bridged amps, like my Crowns, which give 105W each bridged, DON'T tolerate low impedance loads (you need to "double mono" them for that) and as the 405's and mine don't like 4 Ohm loads in standard form, this doubles to a minimum of 8 Ohms when bridged.

As the TDL's are a fairly good 8 Ohm load as I recall, there won't be electrical probs.

The ONE thing that the TDL 0.75m's DON'T like is prolonged high level listening. As part of the design, the mid and top are pulled well down in level to further extend the impression of bass. Fine for orchestral music but on prolonged loud R&R the bass unit may go open circuit as happened to a client of mine, who ignored my plea to spend a couple of hundred extra and get the Studio 1m instead. This is only a problem as TDL no longer exist as they were, although Lockwoods may do repairs (I'm not sure) and the drive unit designer (and builder possibly), Clive Gibson of Musical Technology fame, is no longer in the domestic audio side I understand.

Good, working and carefully restored Quad 303's and 405-2's can sound lovely if working within their limits (i.e. with older speakers as modern boxes are often 4-6 Ohm's these days) and have a sweet natured spatial ease which is more "valve" than "Naim" if you understand my comparison. The 405 was limited by its current limiting and small casework to be honest, removing or reducing the current limiting causing the poor thing to over-heat.

P.S. The Audiolab 8000M's were usually supremely well behaved and reliable, working best with smoother interconnects. if one of yours blew up it could just have been old age and a weak rectifier bridge or similar (I've seen enough Linn Valhalla kits explode in my time, due to 24/7 running for fifteen to twenty years).

Primalsea
07-06-2009, 11:26
Hi Tim,

I use a WD88 with my ML Aeon-i's which go down to 1 ohm at 20 Khz. The amp doesn't have to be a monster like an Audio Research D250 (which by the way sounds very good), I used a WD KEL84 with no problems either and it certainly had very good bass.

Its more to do with the amp being designed to drive reactive and heavy loads, not how much power they have. To be fair many amps with the 845's, 300b's etc are often designed with the valve choice in mind and everything else is compromised in order to use that particular valve. This is not to say they are all poor amps you just need to find the ones that where designed to drive the load.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
07-06-2009, 11:30
Hi Tim



I was the previous owner of Mike's Sequel's. I ran them with a couple of amps;

Audio Analogue Maestro which is SS. The massive beast that Mike currently uses.
Almarro 50125 Valve amp. Not a cheap option. but a viable option that works extreamly well as Mike can testify.
Both amps drove the Sequel's very well without any problems due to the wicked impedance curve of the speakers. There were advantages and disadvantages with both, that could be solved with Mike's suggestion of Bi-Amping with SS and Valves.

Andy - SDDW

lonergan2468
07-06-2009, 11:39
I know the Studio 0.75M's very well and know what can happen on the end of a SINGLE 405-2, let alone a bridged pair.....

Firstly, bridged amps, like my Crowns, which give 105W each bridged, DON'T tolerate low impedance loads (you need to "double mono" them for that) and as the 405's and mine don't like 4 Ohm loads in standard form, this doubles to a minimum of 8 Ohms when bridged.

As the TDL's are a fairly good 8 Ohm load as I recall, there won't be electrical probs.

The ONE thing that the TDL 0.75m's DON'T like is prolonged high level listening. As part of the design, the mid and top are pulled well down in level to further extend the impression of bass. Fine for orchestral music but on prolonged loud R&R the bass unit may go open circuit as happened to a client of mine, who ignored my plea to spend a couple of hundred extra and get the Studio 1m instead. This is only a problem as TDL no longer exist as they were, although Lockwoods may do repairs (I'm not sure) and the drive unit designer (and builder possibly), Clive Gibson of Musical Technology fame, is no longer in the domestic audio side I understand.

Good, working and carefully restored Quad 303's and 405-2's can sound lovely if working within their limits (i.e. with older speakers as modern boxes are often 4-6 Ohm's these days) and have a sweet natured spatial ease which is more "valve" than "Naim" if you understand my comparison. The 405 was limited by its current limiting and small casework to be honest, removing or reducing the current limiting causing the poor thing to over-heat.

P.S. The Audiolab 8000M's were usually supremely well behaved and reliable, working best with smoother interconnects. if one of yours blew up it could just have been old age and a weak rectifier bridge or similar (I've seen enough Linn Valhalla kits explode in my time, due to 24/7 running for fifteen to twenty years).

As far as I know he bought the 2 405 Quads from a guy in e Bay who repairs and makes modifications. I used them last night on my Martin Logans, and they were ok, quite fast. The only problem that I have lately is just something in the treble that I find uncomfortable, even with the NAD C275BEE. As I mentioned in my previous post I will remove the Michell cones from underneath.

DSJR
07-06-2009, 11:46
I was never hugely happy with hybrids like the ML's, although they have improved steadily with each incarnation. The bass unit crosses over right in the middle of the midrange and I think I'd trade bass extension with bass "speed." They also seemed to need fairly big rooms and/or damping behind them, otherwise you get cancellations with reflecions from the back wall. When KJ did up their large dem-room some years ago, the reflective back wall had sound deadening material placed upon it, covered by a form of wax paper to retain a little bit of "life." ML's apparently sound amazing in this room and plenty are sold from there.

Ali Tait
07-06-2009, 12:10
Mike,I'll have to get round to bringing the 813 round to try on the ML's.We can sort it out on Saturday if you're still going?

lonergan2468
07-06-2009, 16:17
Mike,I'll have to get round to bringing the 813 round to try on the ML's.We can sort it out on Saturday if you're still going?

Bring round to my place please for my Quest Z:eyebrows:

Primalsea
07-06-2009, 18:05
Hi Dave,

You are right about ML's not always having the best integration between panels and cones. Thing is they are really designed for American homes with large rooms. In a large room the distance you will be from the speakers help to hide this a little more than is the average UK home which tends to have much smaller rooms so you tend to be a lot closer to them.

Also the cabinets (IMO) tend to be on the very limits of lowest volume that will work with the cone drivers. This tends to limit bass speed a little. This one of my few quibbles with my ML's; the bass is no where near as good as my DIY speakers with over a 100 Ltrs of volume with no bass ports.

Ali Tait
07-06-2009, 19:28
Tim,whereabouts in the world are you?

lonergan2468
07-06-2009, 20:25
Tim,whereabouts in the world are you?



Ealing area, West London

Ali Tait
07-06-2009, 21:02
Bit far away then! I'm in Leeds and Dunfermline.

Joe
07-06-2009, 21:34
Are you twins?

Mike
11-06-2009, 19:49
Time for a bit of attention to these.... :)

Can you tell what it is yet?

And, how many problems can you spot? :eyebrows: ;)

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8515/p1273344.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-11

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6219/p1273345.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-11

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6370/p1273349.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-11

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9228/p1273348.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-06-11


:smoking:

Spectral Morn
11-06-2009, 21:43
IT BE BLEWED UP... quite a bit of damage there Mike. Is the board okay ?

Bit of a project..... What happened ?



Regards D S D L

Marco
11-06-2009, 21:45
That spongy thing on the bottom R/H corner of the first photo isn't folded properly.

Marco.

Ali Tait
12-06-2009, 08:15
Are you twins?

LOL no,I work up in Scotland and have some weekends at my place in Leeds where I keep my main system and I get to see my daughter who lives in Leeds.

Mike
12-06-2009, 08:48
IT BE BLEWED UP... quite a bit of damage there Mike.

Nope... still working! :)

Marco
12-06-2009, 14:11
What about that spongy thing? It won't sound right unless that bit's straight.

Marco.

Mike
12-06-2009, 16:56
What about that spongy thing? It won't sound right unless that bit's straight.

Marco.

But no-one's said what it is!... maybe it's supposed to be like that! :eyebrows:

Marco
12-06-2009, 17:08
Aye! The secret lies in dat spongy-poo...

Marco.

DSJR
12-06-2009, 18:24
Just get a bigger resistor rating, or stand it further off the board. perhaps you could drill some holes in the board above this resistor to allow the heat to rise away from it?

Dunno otherwise... I love these boards where there were once loads of extra comonents and over development or costing, they all get removed, leaving empty spaces (unless there's a version stuffed with caps ;))

Marco
12-06-2009, 18:27
Yes, Dave, but what's your view of the spongy bit? It needs to go over to the left slightly, I feel.

Marco.

Mike
17-06-2009, 16:00
They're the crossover & PSU boards from the Martin Logans.

Yes, it's those 5R 50W resistors (the gold ones) that are causing some concern, neither the function nor implementation seems very elegant.

Basically they provide a 3 dB cut in bass output by being switched in via an unimpressive, er, switch complete with nasty little push on spade connectors. Closing the switches just bungs them in parallel with the bass speakers and drops them from 8ohm to around 4ohm. The 50W rating seems rather marginal too, judging by the acrid stench that alerted me to the problem in the first place!

Must be a better way.....

Like bi-amping for instance! :) Using the Audio Analogue, which obviously has it's own volume control, means I can dial in as much (or little) bass as I want.
Sorted! :gig:

The other thing is, the components are all looking a bit old and tired so a rebuild with nice fresh bits, especially caps, can only be a good thing.

Also, note the two resistors that run perpendicularly to those gold coloured ones in the first and second pictures. Spot anything? :eyebrows:

Primalsea
18-06-2009, 22:19
Don't worry about the mysterious markings on the PCB showing components that were never fitted. That board is just the voltage step up for the membrane and probably went into many models. As these speakers don't need as much voltage on the membranes as others it doesn't need as many components.

Mike, you might have a classic case of someone replacing the knackered resistors and not bothering to find out what knackered them. Possible those white ones are of a higher wattage so they don't get as hot. If this is the case take care as the problem will still be there and just using higher wattage resistors cause the standard ones keep burning out is NOT a proper repair.

Marco you are right about the sponge. Its a special Audiophile Sponge that channels gravaton particles into the enclosure to maker it heavier. It also repels electrons and polarises morons.;)

Marco
18-06-2009, 23:01
Marco you are right about the sponge. Its a special Audiophile Sponge that channels gravaton particles into the enclosure to maker it heavier. It also repels electrons and polarises morons.


Fort it was summart shpecial... Still reckon it could be straightened a bit though and moved over to the left to maximise on the channelling of them gravaton particle thingys.

Marco.

RobHolt
19-06-2009, 00:32
They're the crossover & PSU boards from the Martin Logans.

Yes, it's those 5R 50W resistors (the gold ones) that are causing some concern, neither the function nor implementation seems very elegant.

Basically they provide a 3 dB cut in bass output by being switched in via an unimpressive, er, switch complete with nasty little push on spade connectors. Closing the switches just bungs them in parallel with the bass speakers and drops them from 8ohm to around 4ohm. The 50W rating seems rather marginal too, judging by the acrid stench that alerted me to the problem in the first place!

Must be a better way.....



Jesus wept, what a dreadful way to reduce bass output!
As if the amplifier hasn't got a hard enough job driving a low capacitive load it gets that thing shunted across the output.

Definitely go the bi-amp route.

Another option would be to use some parametric eq if only one amplifier were available.

Mike
19-06-2009, 07:17
Mike, you might have a classic case of someone replacing the knackered resistors and not bothering to find out what knackered them.

Indeed!


Jesus wept, what a dreadful way to reduce bass output!

Indeed, again!




:)

DSJR
19-06-2009, 07:28
Someone like Ash may well bemoan the dreadful design, but as these things were most often sold with over-kill Krells that will drive almost anything thrown at them, it didn't matter... It's now that they're in their second and third lives that the problems start.

Mike
19-06-2009, 08:15
Well, the AA Maestro will deliver 600W into 2ohms (continuous) and cheerfully melt half the crossover. So I guess I don't need a Krell at the moment! :)

DSJR
19-06-2009, 08:32
Anyone ever tried the QMI (Quatre) gain cell - 200W into 8, 400W into 4 and 800W into 2. I've NEVER heard passive Isobariks sound so good before or since....... It even made B&W 801's sound serious!

Primalsea
19-06-2009, 16:03
Dave,

Are you saying there is someone else out there who doesn't like the 801's? I read a few rave reviews in the mags and then got to hear a pair. I thought they were terrible!!

Ali Tait
19-06-2009, 16:44
Not dissing your speakers Mike,I'm sure they sound great (I've never heard ML's) But looking at these pcb's alongside the retail cost of of the speakers,it doesn't say much for the value of commercial gear!

Mike
19-06-2009, 17:14
Funny you should say that, Ali. The devil on my shoulder is telling me I should go and do something entirely different! :eyebrows:

The ML's were very, very cheap though....

Ali Tait
19-06-2009, 21:23
Yep,get some full range statics and a direct coupled amp.It's the ultimate!:)

Marco
19-06-2009, 21:38
801s are TERRIBLE things - all bass and top end with nothing in between. Phat and toppy in the extreme. The ultimate 'boom 'n' tizz' speakers for deaf, wide-bottomed, American 'audiophiles' who like that sorta thang.


Yep,get some full range statics and a direct coupled amp.It's the ultimate!


Naw it iznae, wee man! :lol: :eyebrows:

Marco

Primalsea
20-06-2009, 07:33
ML's are designed for the American market and the level they are placed at most buyers would have very large rooms. I would guess the 3db cut in the bass was an after thought for the overseas markets like the UK where the average room is much smaller. To be fair ML's are well made and well designed on the whole. However the newer models seem to be getting more and more expensive and I'm nor sure the performance is increasing.

Mike
20-06-2009, 09:09
I would guess the 3db cut in the bass was an after thought for the overseas markets like the UK where the average room is much smaller.

I'm quite sure it is, Paul. The US version has the same switch, but in that case it provides a 2dB lift to the bass.

Ali Tait
21-06-2009, 22:08
801s are TERRIBLE things - all bass and top end with nothing in between. Phat and toppy in the extreme. The ultimate 'boom 'n' tizz' speakers for deaf, wide-bottomed, American 'audiophiles' who like that sorta thang.



Naw it iznae, wee man! :lol: :eyebrows:

Marco

How do you know? Have you ever heard statics run by a direct coupled amp?? :eyebrows:

aquapiranha
22-06-2009, 07:58
How do you know? Have you ever heard statics run by a direct coupled amp?? :eyebrows:

Could Marco be referring to B&W 801's??? :confused:

Ali Tait
22-06-2009, 11:22
I was referring to his earlier comment about me saying statics and direct coupled amps are the ultimate.Ok,a bit tongue in cheek,but it's certainly far and away the best sound I've ever heard.I'll start a thread and post some pics of the prototype amp when I get back from Glastonbury

Marco
22-06-2009, 11:47
Ali (and Mike), forgive me, as it's just my opinion, but any system with electrostatics in the equation, despite their obvious talents in certain areas, for me is fundamentally flawed (for what I value in music). It's just personal taste, guys, nothing more :)

I'm not an imaging freak, for starters. Scale/'physicality', 'scary dynamics' and overall naughtiness, are much more my thing (amongst lots of other stuff) - most of which in my experience so far, statics don't do. Sparks tend to fly before that happens! I like a 'live gig' type of sound (but also too with an element of subtlety) :fingers:

So there's got to be high-efficiency 15" dual-concentric drivers in huge cabinets, and a 'meaty' P/P amp at the helm, before I start to get a stiffy!! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Yes, Steve, I HATE B&W 801s for reasons specified!

Mike
22-06-2009, 14:33
No probs Marco...

A bit like I'm not too much of a fan of moldy old flappy paper cones that have been around longer than my dad! :lolsign:

Marco
22-06-2009, 14:42
Hehehehe... {Sssh} Don't mention 'saddlebags' :eyebrows:

Marco.

Ali Tait
22-06-2009, 16:24
Marco/Mike if you're coming to Owston you'll get a chance to hear the amp.In most ways it sounds better than anything I've heard before.A little bass light at the moment,but that's just due to the too small chokes being used.Correct ones will be ordered from Sowter.

Marco
22-06-2009, 16:29
Sounds good, matey :)

Should I bring some of my shpeshial moozik, and the 1210, like I did the last time? :eyebrows:

Marco.

Ali Tait
22-06-2009, 16:35
The more gear the better as far as I'm concerned Marco.Look forward to hearing the Tannoys.

Mike
22-06-2009, 16:53
Maybe my TT will be working again by then too...

Must find out what the hell is going on with it! :scratch:

Marco
22-06-2009, 17:18
It'll have grown a beard by now!! :lolsign:

Ali, the Tannoys are way too big to lug around anywhere, so those sadly won't be in the equation. Anything else though is a possibility :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
22-06-2009, 18:19
Ok,bring what you can Marco.Be interesting to try the techie through the static amp.

DSJR
22-06-2009, 18:26
Dave,

Are you saying there is someone else out there who doesn't like the 801's? I read a few rave reviews in the mags and then got to hear a pair. I thought they were terrible!!


The QMI days were thirty years ago when the original 801's came out. I've kept in touch with these and think they got worse if anything as the years went on - my personal view, nothing more... If you want to know why many early CD's sounded horrid (loads of "glare") look no further.

My Decca mastering engineer friend had to master an early period Marian Faithful compilation early on and, not being a pop or rock person, eq'd the tapes to sound good on 801's. he got his free disc in time and on a reasonable HiFi with Harbeth HL5's (very genteel up top) he couldn't believe the sssibilant, tinny noise he'd made. he never eq'd anything after that unless absolutely necessary.

Marco
22-06-2009, 19:20
Dave,

They rank amongst the most unmusical speakers I've ever heard - shockingly bad for their utterly ridiculous price tag!

In fact, I'm struggling to think of *any* B&W speakers I'd give house room... :scratch:

Marco.

Mike
04-07-2009, 09:02
Well, the Martin Logan's crossovers have been given a bit of a rebuild with some nice fresh Soniqs PPX polypropylene caps and uprated resistors and it's done them a power of good! :)

The bass has tightened up nicely, though theres still a bit too much of it, and the mid and treble is tons better. Much more open and and sort of 'free breathing', if you see what I mean? There was a bit of a question mark hanging over the ESL panels where there seemed to be a bit of an imbalance between the two, but there's not even a hint of it now, a definite bonus! - There's life in the old dogs yet!

Still not sure about the bass though... not yet as tight and punchy as I'd like. :scratch:



Enough speaker fiddling for now though, time to get the TT back together and plumbed in! :gig:

Primalsea
05-07-2009, 16:54
Hi Mike,

Have you tried sticking some socks into the bass ports?? Sometimes sealing them up airtight can help, sometimes not.. it all depends on the speaker in question.

Mike
05-07-2009, 17:13
Hi Paul,

No ports mate... sealed boxes on the Sequels. ;)

It's a problem with the room as much as anything else, all the loudspeakers I've had in this room have produced similar results to some extent or other; loose and boomy bass!

It's pretty square at 3.9M x 4.1M and quite prone to it.

*Edit* Also!... there's no getting round the fact they're too big for the room! :D

Dr. Flicker
07-07-2009, 15:06
Might be a bit too obvious, but have you considered the Aragon 4004?

Designed to drive low impedance speakers, plenty of muscle (high bias to class A), very musical, superb build/design quality (Mondial/Krell team) and known for excellent bass control. On top of it, goes for bargain prices.

Spectral Morn
07-07-2009, 16:08
Might be a bit too obvious, but have you considered the Aragon 4004?

Designed to drive low impedance speakers, plenty of muscle (high bias to class A), very musical, superb build/design quality (Mondial/Krell team) and known for excellent bass control. On top of it, goes for bargain prices.

Indeed.... Excellent amplifier, from about 20 years ago, and Aragon as a company is about to be reborn very soon....I can't wait. Nice suggestion Dr Flicker. Mike you should have a look for one.


Regards D S D L

Mike
07-07-2009, 16:09
have you considered the Aragon 4004?

Not really,

TBH the problem I'm having is with loudspeaker/room interaction, I already have enough power to entertain the whole street and melt the crossovers!

Cheers...

Mike
07-07-2009, 20:26
Hmmm... I think I've had an epiphany, or a brain fart. Take your pick! :eyebrows:

Anyone want to buy a pair of Martin Logan Sequel II's or an Audio Analogue Maestro Integrated? :)

Primalsea
08-07-2009, 10:05
Hi Mike,

In theory you should have tight bass but not as low as a ported speaker. Usually closed boxes that are too small for the speaker results in a boost in the bass mostly around 100hz to 300hz. This might be the problem but I would have thought that ML made them with a flatish responce.

Have you seen this

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/anti-mode.htm

You could run the bass with a 2nd amp using this to sort the room boom out???????

Mike
08-07-2009, 16:53
In theory you should have tight bass but not as low as a ported speaker.

Yep, that's what I'd expect too! :scratch:

I've no shortage of low bass, it's rather plentiful in fact, it's the "tight" bit that's the problem, what I'm getting is actually a bit slow and ponderous to be brutally honest.

It's a shame really because the panels are sounding rather wonderful since the crossovers where done. I might pull the bass drivers out and have a wee poke about inside, I've noticed the cabs are more than a bit 'lively' so maybe some attention to damping might improve things.

On the other hand, there are 'other ideas' going round my head atm! ;)

Beechwoods
09-07-2009, 18:12
On the other hand, there are 'other ideas' going round my head atm! ;)

They wouldn't have anything to do with 12" Ferrograph drivers would they Mike :scratch::scratch::eyebrows:

Mike
09-07-2009, 18:23
Wwweeeelllllll..... sort of. But not in the way I think you mean! :)

Beechwoods
09-07-2009, 18:30
I'm completely boggled! Sounds like it's going to be interesting though :fingers: :fingers:

Mike
09-07-2009, 18:48
Well, I'd love a pair of these: http://audio-database.com/FERROGRAPH/speaker/s1-e.html I've been looking (on & off) since hearing Adam Smith's at Scalford Hall.

(http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/baron103/HiFiWigwamBakeOff#5308304367441993714)

They're like rocking horse shit though!

Thoughts at the moment seem to involve big drivers and open baffles. Not necessarily DIY though (but probably will be), another great speaker I've heard in recent times were Andy's (SDDW) Dali Skyline 2000. I've been keeping an eye open for those too, same problem!

There aren't enough defecating rocking horses in this world! :lol:

I've got a feeling thought that whatever I do, the bloody room will do it's best to piss on my bonfire. I'll go and frown at it for a bit, that should help!

Ali Tait
09-07-2009, 19:10
Mike,you could try OB's along the lines of Nick's James D designed ones.Drivers are reasonable and they seem to be fairly immune to room effects.Sound damn good too.

Mike
09-07-2009, 19:17
Hi Ali,

I've been looking around at OB's quite a bit. Have you ever seen any with ribbon tweeters by any chance?

Ali Tait
09-07-2009, 20:32
I haven't but I'm sure it could be done quite easily.Perhaps a PM to Scott?

Mike
09-07-2009, 20:36
Just a daft thought about making some Skyline clones... quite where I'd lay my hands on a pair of 40" ribbons though, is another matter! :confused:

Ali Tait
10-07-2009, 08:37
Dunno,but some other ribbon could be used I reckon.Scott or Dave are the peeps to ask!

Mike
19-07-2009, 20:14
Hmmmm....

I think I might fancy having a go at something like this: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Modulus.html

Mike
21-07-2009, 22:19
New arrival due at chez H any day now. :)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1031/009ura.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with Canon PowerShot A400 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+A400&make=Canon) at 2009-07-21

aquapiranha
21-07-2009, 22:22
Nice!

Mike
21-07-2009, 22:32
Hope so. :)

Don't think it'll be too long before I start altering it's giblets though... :eyebrows:

Spectral Morn
21-07-2009, 23:21
New arrival due at chez H any day now. :)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1031/009ura.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with Canon PowerShot A400 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Canon+PowerShot+A400&make=Canon) at 2009-07-21


Melodyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy......NICE....very NICE Not sure if it will drive the Martin Logan's or not. We wait with bated breath for your write up Mike.



Regards D S D L

Mike
22-07-2009, 07:13
Not sure if it will drive the Martin Logan's or not.

They're on borrowed time anyway. :)

Marco
22-07-2009, 08:35
Aye, lose that 'static pish and get yersel some big Tannoys... ;)

They'll lurve the Melody!

Marco.

Mike
23-07-2009, 19:28
It's here!

Absolutely spotless and gleaming like new. Two sets of valves included with it as well! :)

Spectral Morn
23-07-2009, 22:04
It's here!

Absolutely spotless and gleaming like new. Two sets of valves included with it as well! :)

Write up of this amp please for SOG as soon as your system is settled enough to allow it. I will remind you from time to time....;):)


Regards D S D L

Mike
24-07-2009, 16:39
Bollocks... It doesn't fit in the rack! :doh:

Mike
24-07-2009, 19:57
i drove my logans with a 35w valve amp and they sounded superb.

Take a chocolate Noddy and go to the top of the class! :)

They sound brilliant with the 50W Melody!... I expected the panels to sound great with valves (and they do!) but I wasn't expecting the bass to be improved. :scratch:

It could be that the Melody is putting out less bass energy than the Audio Analogue (that's my guess, anyway) but the overall effect is a big improvement in overall presentation. I'm well pleased! :carrot:

They still don't quite have the 'slam' I'd like in the bottom end, but they're VERY listenable! :):):)

Spectral Morn
24-07-2009, 23:00
Take a chocolate Noddy and go to the top of the class! :)

They sound brilliant with the 50W Melody!... I expected the panels to sound great with valves (and they do!) but I wasn't expecting the bass to be improved. :scratch:

It could be that the Melody is putting out less bass energy than the Audio Analogue (that's my guess, anyway) but the overall effect is a big improvement in overall presentation. I'm well pleased! :carrot:

They still don't quite have the 'slam' I'd like in the bottom end, but they're VERY listenable! :):):)


Good news Mike..... write up please at some point.



Regards D S D L

Mike
15-08-2009, 15:00
I'm feeling all excited! :carrot:

There should be some new arrivals at chez H within the next week!... "Can yer tell wot it is yet"? :eyebrows:

<Clue#1> Two boxes.

Marco
15-08-2009, 16:45
Bet it's the Denon monoblocks! ;)

Marco.

Mike
15-08-2009, 16:47
Nope. :)

aquapiranha
15-08-2009, 16:50
Bel Canto

Mike
15-08-2009, 16:57
Nope.

It's good, this. a bit like 'I-Spy' only harder! :)

<Clue#2> Two wooden boxes.

Primalsea
15-08-2009, 18:07
My my my Neil, That's a very bulbus head you have:) Do you show that to all the boys on the forums!

Mike, Glad to see things are still moving along the road of audio nirvana! It is , as usual set with all sorts of peaks and troths though.

I've had only 1 problem with my system which is that every now and again the media PC would stammer a bit. I thought is was some processes running in the background that would hog the CPU. It turns out that on almost every album loaded there has been a data corruption on at least 1 track at the time of ripping to the hard drive. Took me a while to spot it always happens on the same tracks on the same places:(

I now have to dig out the CD's and re rip those tracks!:steam::steam:

Cant even think about looking at something else until I fix this. Truth be told I've been distracted by other things they all seem to conspire against me.

Buts that's enough about me, What I meant to say was that its good to see your puppy like excitement when something new is coming.

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:12
Hi Paul,

Haven't seen you around much recently. Glad to see you're back again. ;)

All sorts of stuff has been changing in my system lately, and still is!

Folk here are rubbish at playing guessing games though... :lol:

Beechwoods
15-08-2009, 18:20
Well since you've decided to keep the Martin Logans, my thought for Ferrograph 12" woppers is for nought :)

You haven't gone and got yourself 2 disco decks have you?!

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:22
*Sigh* Not even close...

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 18:25
Yammie NS-1000M's perchance??:lolsign:

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:27
Cheat! Cheat! :steam:

You peeked!......... (OK, so I posted summat over on the WD forum ;))

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 18:31
Hee hee!

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:33
I'll be picking these up sometime next week while I'm off work. :)



http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8365/ns1000mnt6.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9251/ns1000mhighmidyk9.jpg



You can probably see why I was asking about 'Piano gloss black'!

Personally I like the colour... But I'm worried that Mrs H might take 'a different view'. I've not shown her a picture, once they're in the house it's too late to say no!
<evil laugh> HaHaHa! :exactly:

Beechwoods
15-08-2009, 18:39
Cor

:stalks: :stalks:

Big !!

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 18:41
Not a quiet colour are they! I'll have to come over sometime with the 813.I reckon it would be a good match for those.

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:46
Not a quiet colour are they! I'll have to come over sometime with the 813.I reckon it would be a good match for those.

No, hardly shrinking violets!... Yeah, I bet they'd get on like a house on fire (!) with 813's :)

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 18:49
A weekend next month maybe?

Mike
15-08-2009, 18:52
Sounds good, Ali! :)

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 18:58
Ok jog my memory next month.

Marco
15-08-2009, 20:03
At last you've got some proper speakers!! :eyebrows:

Red is the new Magnolia, don't you know? We've just installed a beautiful free-standing enamelled cream colour cast-iron bath in our new (black & white) bathroom with a very similar red painted base (with chrome ball and claw feet) to that used on your speakers... It always amazes me how some people are scared of colour - everyone goes for the boring 'safe' option!

Nice one, matey - hope they hit the spot for you :)

Marco.

Alex_UK
15-08-2009, 20:09
I do love a shy & retiring speaker - but these ain't them, are they! :eyebrows:

Hope they give you what you want - are they replacing the ML's? I thought you'd relented?

Anyway - more importantly - good luck harmonising them into domesticity - that could be quite a challenge when she sees them I suspect! :sofa:

Mike
15-08-2009, 20:25
Hope they give you what you want - are they replacing the ML's? I thought you'd relented?

Still keeping the ML's. :)

DSJR
15-08-2009, 20:25
NS1000's? been there, owned that and replaced them with Epos ES14's.......

They're funny speakers those Yamies. they can sound superb in one setup and synthetic and dead in another. I'd like to hear them again on a modern setup though, although I didn't once miss them once the ES14's moved in.

Mike
15-08-2009, 20:25
Ok jog my memory next month.

Eh?... about what? :scratch:

:lolsign:

Ali Tait
15-08-2009, 20:42
A good time for me to come over!

Mike
15-08-2009, 23:09
Ooer... 'There may be trouble ahead' (sing it!). Just showed Mrs H the pics.

Her reaction was entirely as I predicted! :lolsign:

I'd better start looking more seriously at getting a 'piano gloss black' type finish! Eek! :eyebrows:

Spectral Morn
15-08-2009, 23:23
Ooer... 'There may be trouble ahead' (sing it!). Just showed Mrs H the pics.

Her reaction was entirely as I predicted! :lolsign:

I'd better start looking more seriously at getting a 'piano gloss black' type finish! Eek! :eyebrows:


Just showed the pick to my wife and her blank look said it all really. I once saw a set ravaged by a dog...the dog lived, the speakers didn't. The phone called went thus " You love dogs don't you?, You wouldn't hurt a dog ? "The woofer just got the woofer.................." The owner Jim was not happy, this was back in 1987 ish.


Regards D S D L

Alex_UK
15-08-2009, 23:30
good luck harmonising them into domesticity - that could be quite a challenge when she sees them I suspect! :sofa:

Hate to say "I told you so" but...! ;)

Mike
15-08-2009, 23:36
NS1000's? been there, owned that and replaced them with Epos ES14's.......

They're funny speakers those Yamies. they can sound superb in one setup and synthetic and dead in another. I'd like to hear them again on a modern setup though, although I didn't once miss them once the ES14's moved in.

That's OK then... I own some ES14's too! ;)

Mike
15-08-2009, 23:38
Hate to say "I told you so" but...! ;)

Ah, but now she's getting used to the idea. ;)

At least I won't get them 'inserted into me' when I bring them home! :lol:

Marco
16-08-2009, 06:41
Ooer... 'There may be trouble ahead' (sing it!). Just showed Mrs H the pics.

Her reaction was entirely as I predicted! :lolsign:

I'd better start looking more seriously at getting a 'piano gloss black' type finish! Eek!

Ach, grow some cohonas and tell her "I'm having them and you'll like them!" :eyebrows:

I still think they look cool - nothing wrong with a bit of colour, you dull people :ner:

;)

Marco.

Primalsea
16-08-2009, 08:26
Big Red Shiny......


Oops wrong listing

Mike
16-08-2009, 13:11
Ach, grow some cohonas and tell her "I'm having them and you'll like them!" :eyebrows:

I have, and it's cost me a dog! :lol:

Beechwoods
16-08-2009, 16:02
Incoming or outgoing?

Mike
16-08-2009, 16:20
Incoming... Ollie the 8 month old staffy has already arrived.

The little sod will be having his spuds disconnected ASAP!!!

Beechwoods
16-08-2009, 16:26
Ollie :) Great name. Our cat's called Ollie!

Oops. Thread drift. Slap wrist!

Alex_UK
16-08-2009, 18:14
Let's just hope that after all that Ollie doesn't take a special liking to your new speakers!

Mike
21-08-2009, 17:01
Never mind Ollie...

I've killed my phono stage! :(

DSJR
21-08-2009, 17:14
There's only one "Ollie" as far as I'm concerned and he was a total one-off. I've never known another puss like him -

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/OllieSep2006cropped.jpg

DSJR
21-08-2009, 17:19
P.S. The NS1000's I had came with some grilles which did all sorts of nasties to the sound. I notice these red ones have no fittings for the grille "pegs." Does this mean they're early ones?

Talking aesthetics, I had these when single (with black grilles for backup).

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/ATCs1993croppedandresized.jpg

Before these, I had ATC SCM 20's in red piano lacquer with black grilles. The friends who bought them from me had them sprayed gloss black in a high class car body-shop, so they could sell them on (they did, very easily).

Mike
21-08-2009, 17:24
*PING*... <sound of penny dropping>

A while ago I said:



Time to ring EsCo!...

It needs a re-tip. There's that unmistakable 'edgy buzz' most noticeable on vocals and piano. Some of it is probably set-up, which is a bit rough and ready at the moment, but the tell tale signs are there.

It's not too far gone though and I can tell that I'm going to like this cartridge. Looking at the little trace thing that's in the box there's much less of a treble lift than the other AT cartridges I've had (which isn't many TBH), just a touch of it right at the very top. Bass sounds very clean and detailed too, I'm going to enjoy this once it's sorted. :)


HERE (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3310&highlight=ART1&page=3)

I'm now thinking there may be nothing wrong with the cartridge after all!
Maybe what I was hearing was just the phono stage getting ready to die?... It may sound odd, but that'll be good news, believe it or not!

I've a feeling I know what the problem might be! :eyebrows:

"Nurse!... pass me my tools. I'm going in"!

Mike
21-08-2009, 18:20
Sorted!.... still not sure about this ART1 though. :scratch:

Anyway, here's some new pretty bits. :)


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9104/p1013744.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-08-21

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 18:27
Very nice!! Construction looks very different to conventional ecc's.How do they sound?

DSJR
21-08-2009, 18:36
Come on, we all want to know.

They look like the insides of late Mullard/Philips TV tubes - well, that's what they're based on :)

Mike
21-08-2009, 18:39
Another pretty bit...

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4971/p1013752.jpg
By shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/shian7), shot with u30D,S410D,u410D (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=u30D%2CS410D%2Cu410D&make=OLYMPUS+CORPORATION) at 2009-08-21

Mike
21-08-2009, 18:40
Very nice!! Construction looks very different to conventional ecc's.How do they sound?

A bit underwhelming so far, but they've only been running for half an hour or so. ;)

And there's a question mark over my cartridge.

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 18:44
I can see both your hands on the floor in the pic of the amp,so what did you take the picture with??? :lolsign:

Mike
21-08-2009, 19:16
I can see both your hands on the floor in the pic of the amp,so what did you take the picture with??? :lolsign:

Skill! :eyebrows:

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 19:29
:lol:

Marco
21-08-2009, 20:30
A bit underwhelming so far, but they've only been running for half an hour or so.

And there's a question mark over my cartridge.


If you put them in an application where they're liable to work (i.e. where everything is 'sorted'), you'll be more likely to hear their considerable benefits... :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Marco
21-08-2009, 21:17
Incidentally, the smoothing caps in my Croft were today upgraded from Jensen electrolytics to these bad-boy premium films from Obbligato (with many thanks to Duncan! :)):

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/catalog/34/obbligatopsucaps

All I can say for now is..... :wow:

Next will be the coupling caps, which will upgraded from Ducati polyproplenes to these Mundorf Supremes:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/mcap_supreme.html

Should be interesting... I must say that I'm getting right into this modification malarkey! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:21
Incidentally, the smoothing caps in my Croft were today upgraded from Jensen electrolytics to these bad-boy premium films from Obbligato (with many thanks to Duncan! :)):

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/catalog/34/obbligatopsucaps

All I can say for now is..... :wow:

They're, erm... OK. ;)

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 21:22
Best couplers I've heard are SCR teflons.I found Mundorfs very good but a little hard and tinkly at the top end.

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:23
If you put them in an application where they're liable to work (i.e. where everything is 'sorted'), you'll be more likely to hear their considerable benefits... :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Maybe so... time will tell!

Marco
21-08-2009, 21:28
They're, erm... OK. ;)

No, they're much better than that - trust me! :eyebrows:

It think with all these things it depends on the application and the sonic signature of your system :)

Ali, got a link for where the SCR's are available from? I heard the Mundorfs in Dunc's system (as I did the Obbligatos) and they were fantastic - no "hard and tinkly" top end whatsoever :cool:

Like I said, there are so many variables with this stuff that nothing is a 'given'!

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:35
No, they're much better than that - trust me! :eyebrows:

It think with all these things it depends on the application and the sonic signature of your system :)

I've used Obbligato's before, they're OK... But, you can get them cheaper than that, and there are better to be had. ;)

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:37
Ali, got a link for where the SCR's are available from?

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/scr_teflon.html

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:45
I've used Obbligato's before, they're OK... But, you can get them cheaper than that, and there are better to be had. ;)

For your perusal... http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/diy-hifi-supply50_Capacitors_W0QQ_fsubZ109675017QQ_sidZ3160 9237QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 21:55
Well it was the Mundorf silver/oils I tried.Thanks Mike,you beat me to it.Not cheap but worth it IMHO.

Mike
21-08-2009, 21:57
Good caps those SCR's from what I've heard from anyone who's tried them... yet to have the pleasure myself though.

Marco
21-08-2009, 22:04
I've used Obbligato's before, they're OK... But, you can get them cheaper than that, and there are better to be had.

Well, if you heard the sound eminating from my system at the moment matey, once you picked yer jaw up off the floor you might manage some meaningful words... :eyebrows:

The Obbligatos in the Croft are nothing short of stunning! :trust:

Oh, and I paid £60 'delivered' for the two I've got. I bought mine from Duncan.

Ali, cheers for the link. Didn't know Nick stocked the SCRs. I'll check 'em out :cool:

Marco.

Marco
21-08-2009, 22:10
Just had a look at the SCRs - can't use 'em unfortunately, as I need 40 (or min 22) μF and 160V.. Also, in terms of dimensions they can't be any bigger than 105mm x 60mm.

Any other suggestions? Mikey, is there anything suitable in that link you posted? Bearing in mind that I generally prefer polyproplenes to paper in oils :)

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 22:15
Mikey, is there anything suitable in that link you posted? Bearing in mind that I generally prefer polyproplenes to paper in oils :)

Marco.

I prefer Poly's too! :)

What value are you looking for?

Marco
21-08-2009, 22:16
Scroll up... ;)

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 22:44
Voltage? :ner:

Mike
21-08-2009, 22:44
Oops... silly me! :lolsign:

160V?... seems a bit on the low side TBH!

Marco
21-08-2009, 22:57
Could be a bit higher I suppose... That's the figure that Dunc mentioned. The Clarity Cap MRs in the Tannoy crossovers are 'slightly over-specced' at 630V (as that's the only voltage they're available in)! :eyebrows:

Sounds bloody fab, though. There's obviously a bit of leeway with these things!

Anyway, got any suitable suggestions? The Mundorfs are winning at the moment...

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:03
How about... http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/diy-hifi-supply50_Capacitors_W0QQ_fsubZ109675017QQ_sidZ3160 9237QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

Obbligato again, non too cheap though. Same supplier you linked to earlier.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:05
The Clarity Cap MRs in the Tannoy crossovers are 'slightly over-specced' at 630V

Same as the Soniqs SAX type AFAIK. Excellent caps, I use them in my phono stage and ML crossovers. ;)

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:07
How about... http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/diy-hifi-supply50_Capacitors_W0QQ_fsubZ109675017QQ_sidZ3160 9237QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

Obbligato again, non too cheap though. Same supplier you linked to earlier.


Bah!... link has gone silly. Gimme a min.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:08
Try this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Obbligato-Premium-47uF-250V_W0QQitemZ260308600702QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVinta ge_Electronics_R2?hash=item3c9b9a077e&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

Marco
21-08-2009, 23:16
That's a good one, Mike. I'll defo give those some serious consideration. You mentioned Soniqs SAX... Would they make anything suitable, I wonder? :)

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:21
Soniqs SAX are available in 39uF 630V, or Soniqs PPX in 47uF 250V.

If you like the clarity caps (Soniqs are made by the same folk) you could go for the 'SA' or 'ESA' range depending on how much you want to spend.

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap.html

Marco
21-08-2009, 23:33
Thanks, Mikey, I looked at those earlier but the depth was too big...

I can't have them any bigger than 60mm deep and 105mm long. I think the ESAs and MRs are 65mm deep.


Soniqs SAX are available in 39uF 630V


Do you know what the dimensions are of those? :)

The values are fine, if they'll fit! Does it matter that the voltage is much higher?

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:42
Do you know what the dimensions are of those? :)

The values are fine, if they'll fit! Does it matter that the voltage is much higher?

Marco.

Not sure, they only quote dimensions up-to 22uF for some reason... http://wduk.worldomain.net/acatalog/SONIQS_SAX_range.pdf

The voltage will certainly matter if the cap is rated too low. Higher is fine. ;)

Are you sure about these capacitance values?... seems rather high for coupling caps. :scratch:

Marco
21-08-2009, 23:48
Yeah, that's what Dunc said, but then he looked at the circuit in the Croft and mentioned something about them having to be that high because of the phono stage, to filter out rumble or something like that, if this makes any sense...

The Ducati ones in there at the moment are 40 uF...

Regarding the size of the soniqs, I suppose if I contacted World Designs they'd know the dimensions?

Marco.

Mike
21-08-2009, 23:59
to filter out rumble or something like that, if this makes any sense...

Not really! :lol: The coupling cap in my phono stage, for example, is 0.1uF which gives just about no roll-off at LF, changing it to half, or quarter, that value produces a 'significant' LF filter.

But I'll take it 'as is'... I've not seen the circuit.

40uF is a queer figure. Not an 'off the shelf' value I think. :scratch:

Marco
22-08-2009, 00:27
Dunno, Mikey, but that's what's in there at the mo, so it must be right...

I've sent WD an email regarding dimensions for the Soniqs so we'll see how I get on...

I defo like the Clarity Cap stuff, though, so I hope that I can end up using those :)

Marco.

Mike
22-08-2009, 00:33
Clarity Cap... Soniqs... same thing. :)

Oi loikes em. ;)

Mike
22-08-2009, 00:37
All this talk of caps is making me want to get into the giblets of the Melody... I know there's some Jensen PIO's in there, maybe a bit more 'speed' could be had?!? :eyebrows:

Then there's... Arrgh!... stop me! :lolsign:

Marco
22-08-2009, 00:40
Clarity Cap... Soniqs... same thing.

Oi loikes em.


Yeah, me too. They're very clear (no pun intended!) and neutral sounding - not 'smooth and syrupy' at all like some paper in oils. I like components (and valves) that appear to have very little sonic signature, which for me is what it's all about :)

I'm lovin' these Obbligatos, though, as smoothing caps. They're defo doing something magical in the Croft... Maybe it's mainly because I've ditched electrolytics (which were in before) for film-types? Dunc reckoned electrolytics are shit in comparison.

Marco.

Mike
22-08-2009, 00:42
Maybe it's mainly because I've ditched electrolytics (which were in before) for film-types? Dunc reckoned electrolytics were shit in comparison.

Hell yes!... couldn't agree more! :)

Marco
22-08-2009, 00:49
LOL. I'm glad that he seems to know what he's doing... :)

What he liked about the Obbligatos was their very low dissipation factor, which he reckons is significant and highly influential in terms of sound quality:


Obbligato Power Cap 47uf/500v: 0.00015!


The Clarity Cap/Soniqs also have a very low dissipation factor. I went for the MRs in the Tannoy crossovers because of that and because of their research into resonance in the windings of capacitors and the virtual elimination of it. This seems to give them the edge in terms of performance.

Have you read the PDF file on the Hi-fi Collective page? Most interesting!

Off now to listen to a few more tunes, then beddy-byes :smoking:

Marco.

Mike
22-08-2009, 01:01
There's endless fun to be had with this 'tweakage' lark... s'why my system will never be finished! :eyebrows:

Capacitors, in particular, are an endless barrel of laughs. They definitely have a 'sell by date', especially electrolytic, and popping some nice fresh ones in can make a real eye popping difference. Great stuff! :smoking:

Even plain old resistors can make a significant improvement in the right circumstances.

I'd imagine a few well placed polypropylenes would make all the difference to your system, what with it having those crusty old Lockwoods hanging of the end of it! :D

Seriously though... there's much mileage in fiddling with giblets! ;)

Cheers, & night night...

Ali Tait
22-08-2009, 08:42
I was going to say the same thing re. the cap values,seems strange.Marco,you could use some leads to allow you to site the caps somewhere else in the case perhaps? That would allow larger caps.

Marco
22-08-2009, 09:11
Hi Ali,

That's what we had to do with the Obligatos, so unfortunately there's no more room in the case to put the replacement coupling caps other than where the originals are situated now :)

Re: values - dunno, I guess you'd have to see a circuit diagram to 'suss' Glenn's design methodology...

Maybe 40 uFs were all he had in his box? :eyebrows:

Anyway... The Soniqs are looking good, if they'll fit. I'm just waiting now on word back from WD.

Marco.

Mike
22-08-2009, 12:10
Anyway... The Soniqs are looking good, if they'll fit. I'm just waiting now on word back from WD.

Dont ya just know theyre gonna be the same size as the Clarity's! :eyebrows:

Marco
22-08-2009, 12:37
Indeed - maybe I could just buff a wee bit off them? :eyebrows:

Marco.

DSJR
22-08-2009, 20:32
Perhaps dear old Glenn knows exactly what caps to fit - the ones it came with??? ;)

It would be interesting to see whether his new £350 preamp is anywhere near as good as your fancy modded-to-hell preamp Marco?

Marco
22-08-2009, 23:38
Hi Dave,

Who knows? I would never be so bold as to predict such a thing ;)

One must remember that ALL commercial hi-fi equipment is built to a price - and this is where some judicious component modifications can transform already very good gear into something truly and utterly exceptional.

Trust me, that is what my CX is fast becoming! :cool:

Marco.

Marco
23-08-2009, 00:07
Very interesting video interview here from Paul Dodds of Clarity Cap, outlining the difference tackling resonance makes in the windings of capacitors:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2008/05/27/aes08-if-the-cap-fits-it-must-sound-better/

It's yet another example where industry standard measurements don't tell the full story in terms of the sonic properties of components! ;)

The proof of the pudding is of course in the listening (in your own system) and the Clarity Cap capacitors (particularly the MR range, as used in my Tannoy crossovers) are superb and give a massive improvement in performance.

Having had a good think now, I'll probably put these ESAs in the Croft as coupling caps to upgrade the Ducatis:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/claritycap_esa.html


CCESA-530 33uF 630V 65 x 65


33uF is fine, as is the voltage, and 65mm is fine lengthways... I've got 60mm to play with, depth-wise, in terms of being able to shut the case, so I'm sure that I can devise some jiggery-pokery to overcome the extra 5mm...

In the worst case scenario I'll use the bugger with the lid off! For me, as always, performance comes first and foremost... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Ammonite Audio
23-08-2009, 10:13
Trust me, that is what my CX is fast becoming! :cool:

Marco.

Very cool indeed! But I'm sure you meant something else altogether:)

http://www.lanciaflavia.it/annunci/public/img-1182420482.jpg

DSJR
23-08-2009, 10:51
I still think the real challenge is to take the shortcomings of standard components into account and then come up with a giant killer, as these fancy caps will almost certainly have different characteristics to the standard ones and will affect the circuit spec slightly.

As with top notch motorised tin boxes like the Ford Focus/Fiesta, it's when you can get great results from not much that really counts, rather than just chucking money at something and hoping you've got it better, as most "Foo-Fi" seems to do. I mean (apologies for my clumsiness), what is it that makes a fancy stepped attenuator better than the standard pot? It must be measurable and if, for example, the capacitance is slightly different, then this could be taken into account elsewhere so that the standard component is as good. Quad did this with the II power amps, as an ex-manager of mine found out when he tried to make his own II clones. The capacitance of the internal cabling was used as part of the circuit by Peter Walker and altering the layout made it worse apparently.

I'm not trying to spoil anyone's fun, but this is where an objective approach IN ADDITION to extensive listening is important. WHY do these fancy caps and attenuators sound better and if it cannot be measured conventionally, find a method that shows up the differences..... That's how we progress IMO.

Marco
23-08-2009, 11:19
LOL... Or just use your ears like I do, Dave! If it sounds better then it *is* better, is my motto ;)

I agree with this:


I still think the real challenge is to take the shortcomings of standard components into account and then come up with a giant killer...


The difference is though I'm not an equipment designer (like Glenn). I'm an end user after the best possible audio performance. As good as Glenn's designs are (and they are exceptionally good for the money), they are not by any means 'maxed out' or a 'done deal', which indeed one wouldn't expect for the price. This also applies to the designs of almost any other manufacturer.

It's the reason why adopting a D.I.Y approach with hi-fi is so rewarding, as once the right circuit has been established, one can then fill the design with the best components available for their intended appliction (should one be able to afford to do so) which would be completely prohibitive in terms of cost for most commercial manufacturers, resulting in equipment that is truly exceptional, rather than merely very good.

This is where I'm 'at' now with hi-fi, as I'm fortunate enough to have a network of friends who are kind and skilled enough to wield a soldering iron on my behalf. I simply buy the necessary 'bits', and they pop 'em in - for me this is a win-win scenario of the highest order. The resulting SPPV is nothing short of incredible :)

There is no question whatsoever that the Takman stepped attenuator, Obbligato caps (and soon-to-be-fitted CC ESA coupling caps), together with all the NOS valves (and others) I've fitted to the Croft, has raised it's performance quite considerably, whilst retaining the core design implemented by Glenn and the inherent 'musicality' renowned of Croft equipment. The circuit is what ultimately matters - the 'supporting cast', in terms of components used, merely enhances its efficacy.

Remember that if Glenn didn't think that there was any mileage in modifying his equipment, he wouldn't be offering such a service himself now! ;)

It was he who fitted the off-board PSU for my CX (Charisma-X, Shuggs :eyebrows:) and converted it from valve regulation to mosfet, both of which were not part of the original design, which proves (as with the further mods I've had carried out) that there are significant rewards to be reaped by going the extra mile, and go the extra mile is something I shall always do with hi-fi... My perfectionist nature demands it.

Marco.

anthonyTD
24-08-2009, 14:41
the best cap to use is wait for it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
NO CAP AT ALL!!!
one of the main reasons the soul amplifiers and soul-mate pre-amplifiers are so special, they are fully directly coupled, ie: no capacitors in the signal path!
hence no capacitor charging effect, no capacitor vibration problems, no capacitor DC leakage problems,etc, etc.:eyebrows:
A...

anthonyTD
24-08-2009, 14:44
LOL... Or just use your ears like I do, Dave! If it sounds better then it *is* better, is my motto ;)

I agree with this:



The difference is though I'm not an equipment designer (like Glenn). I'm an end user after the best possible audio performance. As good as Glenn's designs are (and they are exceptionally good for the money), they are not by any means 'maxed out' or a 'done deal', which indeed one wouldn't expect for the price. This also applies to the designs of almost any other manufacturer.

It's the reason why adopting a D.I.Y approach with hi-fi is so rewarding, as once the right circuit has been established, one can then fill the design with the best components available for their intended appliction (should one be able to afford to do so) which would be completely prohibitive in terms of cost for most commercial manufacturers, resulting in equipment that is truly exceptional, rather than merely very good.

This is where I'm 'at' now with hi-fi, as I'm fortunate enough to have a network of friends who are kind and skilled enough to wield a soldering iron on my behalf. I simply buy the necessary 'bits', and they pop 'em in - for me this is a win-win scenario of the highest order. The resulting SPPV is nothing short of incredible :)

There is no question whatsoever that the Takman stepped attenuator, Obbligato caps (and soon-to-be-fitted CC ESA coupling caps), together with all the NOS valves (and others) I've fitted to the Croft, has raised it's performance quite considerably, whilst retaining the core design implemented by Glenn and the inherent 'musicality' renowned of Croft equipment. The circuit is what ultimately matters - the 'supporting cast', in terms of components used, merely enhances its efficacy.

Remember that if Glenn didn't think that there was any mileage in modifying his equipment, he wouldn't be offering such a service himself now! ;)

It was he who fitted the off-board PSU for my CX (Charisma-X, Shuggs :eyebrows:)
and converted it from valve regulation to mosfet, both of which were not part of the original design, which proves (as with the further mods I've had carried out) that there are significant rewards to be reaped by going the extra mile, and go the extra mile is something I shall always do with hi-fi... My perfectionist nature demands it.

Marco.
yes,
but who's idea was it that prompted you to ask glenn to do these mods???:eyebrows:
A...

anthonyTD
24-08-2009, 14:54
LOL... Or just use your ears like I do, Dave! If it sounds better then it *is* better, is my motto ;)

I agree with this:



The difference is though I'm not an equipment designer (like Glenn). I'm an end user after the best possible audio performance. As good as Glenn's designs are (and they are exceptionally good for the money), they are not by any means 'maxed out' or a 'done deal', which indeed one wouldn't expect for the price. This also applies to the designs of almost any other manufacturer.

It's the reason why adopting a D.I.Y approach with hi-fi is so rewarding, as once the right circuit has been established, one can then fill the design with the best components available for their intended appliction (should one be able to afford to do so) which would be completely prohibitive in terms of cost for most commercial manufacturers, resulting in equipment that is truly exceptional, rather than merely very good.

This is where I'm 'at' now with hi-fi, as I'm fortunate enough to have a network of friends who are kind and skilled enough to wield a soldering iron on my behalf. I simply buy the necessary 'bits', and they pop 'em in - for me this is a win-win scenario of the highest order. The resulting SPPV is nothing short of incredible :)

There is no question whatsoever that the
Takman stepped attenuator, Obbligato caps (and soon-to-be-fitted CC ESA coupling caps), together with all the NOS valves (and others) I've fitted to the Croft, has raised it's performance quite considerably, whilst retaining the core design implemented by Glenn and the inherent 'musicality' renowned of Croft equipment. The circuit is what ultimately matters - the 'supporting cast', in terms of components used, merely enhances its efficacy.

Remember that if Glenn didn't think that there was any mileage in modifying his equipment, he wouldn't be offering such a service himself now! ;)

It was he who fitted the off-board PSU for my CX (Charisma-X, Shuggs :eyebrows:) and converted it from valve regulation to mosfet, both of which were not part of the original design, which proves (as with the further mods I've had carried out) that there are significant rewards to be reaped by going the extra mile, and go the extra mile is something I shall always do with hi-fi... My perfectionist nature demands it.

Marco.
stepped attenuators, again not a croft endorsed idea, i wonder where that upgrade idea originaly came from:eyebrows:
all i am saying here is, [in jest i might i add] that you tell the whole story, give someone else some credit from time to time!
A...

DSJR
24-08-2009, 15:00
My system isn't good enough to warrant all this twiddling and, to be honest, I'd rather leave the preamp I have as it stands - the 5841a's have transformed it - I was one who found the "Mega Micro" Glen did (and the simpler Series 4 preamp with the Octal valves) too rich and fruity sounding...

What I would like to do is to take the new preamp with his latest power supply thinking and breathe on that. I had an idea that the circuits were simpler these days and designed from the off with the FET regulation. Twin, calibrated stepped attenuators would be an excellent idea (as long as they will fit side by side) I reckon.

The one thing I reckon we'd all agree on is that Glenn seems to get the fundamentals right with a balanced perspective on his designs. he doesn't NEED fancy bits and bobs to get them to work at all...

Mike
27-08-2009, 22:30
Anyway, enough about fiddling with Marco's giblets...

I'm off to collect the NS-1000's tomorrow! :) :gig:

Marco
28-08-2009, 08:24
Yee-hah! :smoking:

Let's hope that yer missus doesn't crown you with them when she claps her peepers on those lurvely red cabinets! :eyebrows:

Marco.

SPS
28-08-2009, 08:37
Anyway, enough about fiddling with Marco's giblets...

I'm off to collect the NS-1000's tomorrow! :) :gig:

nice speakers...

i have a pair they are good...

i found mine worked best with 5 watt se triode amp
thats not what you read though...

my first pair where connected for 3 months with my first lowthers with a quick change switch before i sold them, i had to be sure, i got £500 10 years ago for them

Mike
29-08-2009, 02:34
Well, it's been a long day... But they're here! :)

Actually, they're out in the car and they can stay there till I've had some kip! night night. :goodnight:

Mike
29-08-2009, 10:13
... so I'm reliably 'informed'. She may have a point! :doh:


http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8885/p1013891.jpg
By Shian7 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/Shian7) at 2009-08-29

There can be only one!

... well, one pair, that is. :eyebrows:

Beechwoods
29-08-2009, 10:29
Just a little sound reinforcement...

Mike
29-08-2009, 11:39
Bejeezus!!!

These things are efficient! Very powerful sound with bugger all on the volumes knob. :trust:

Anyone know the sensitivity of em? :)

Marco
29-08-2009, 11:44
I think they're 90db, Mikey. Oi loikes 'em (especially in red)! :)

Marco.

Mike
29-08-2009, 12:00
I think they're 90db, Mikey. Oi loikes 'em (especially in red)! :)

Marco.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was higher, TBH. :smoking:

On the other hand, I'm used to the power sapping requirements of the ML's now, so you may well be right. Then again, they seem even more efficient than the Castles I had, they we're quoted as being 89 but the only test I read measured them at 91... But 'audio memory' is a funny old thing. ;)

Anyway, they is sounding pretty marvellous just plonked on the floor where you see em in the photo. I've still to move all the crap out of the way and get 'em into position yet! :)

The room's a bloody tip as usual! :lol:

Jonboy
29-08-2009, 13:25
I have always facied a pair of these, heres a link for you with specs etc
http://www.thevintageknob.org/YAMAHA/NS1000/NS1000.html#

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
29-08-2009, 15:38
Mike

Very nice indeed.

When's my invite going to arrive for a listen :).

Have fun.

Andy - SDDW

Mike
29-08-2009, 15:43
Very nice indeed.

Very RED indeed. More like! :eyebrows:

DSJR
29-08-2009, 16:16
I replaced NS1000's with ES14's similar to the ones also pictured. The 14's weren't as good on the Linn and Nakamichi amps (probably 'cos the ES14's are more revealing - they're certainly less coloured!), but truly came into their own with valve equipment..

DSJR
29-08-2009, 16:22
I think they're 90db, Mikey. Oi loikes 'em (especially in red)! :)

Marco.

They did fine-tune the bass department a little as the eighties went on, according to the multitude of HiFi Choice tests done - practically each speaker group test featured a fresh or updated review of them, and the bass became a shade more extended in later samples, meaning, I suspect, that the efficiency may have dropped a couple of db in the process.

Also, the "flat" position on the controls gives a pronounced upper-mid response hump and it was found that a mid position of "10 o'clock" and a treble setting of "11 o'clock" gave the smoothest setting if the speakers were to be used a little way out from a back wall.....

Alex_UK
29-08-2009, 17:01
How do you remember all of this stuff Dave - impressed, as always, by your knowledge.

Mike
29-08-2009, 21:46
Oh cock!

These yammies are starting to show up all manner of 'issues' further upstream. :doh:

twelvebears
29-08-2009, 21:57
Always the way Mike....

Beware the microscope. You may not always like what it shows you......

ATCs are much the same.

twelvebears
29-08-2009, 22:00
Personally I'd stick with NS1000s and work out the kinks elsewhere.

Love the gloss red finish btw.

If it's not too rude, how much did they cost you?

Alex_UK
29-08-2009, 22:04
Oh cock!

These yammies are starting to show up all manner of 'issues' further upstream. :doh:

As long as it's not how crap your cables are... :lolsign:

Mike
29-08-2009, 22:07
Personally I'd stick with NS1000s and work out the kinks elsewhere.

Love the gloss red finish btw.

If it's not too rude, how much did they cost you?

1 - I'm going to. :)

2 - I'm not too shure... :scratch:

3 - £900... which might be a bit OTT, but I wanted them! ;)

Mike
29-08-2009, 22:08
As long as it's not how crap your cables are... :lolsign:

There are no digi cables in my system. Yet! ;)