Cartridge advice please

[ThELiZ]

Hi guys,

I currently have a Technics SL1210 Mk2, Jelco 750D, Timestep PSU, Isonoe feet and Funk Firm Achromat. I really like the TT, more so the the RP6 I used to own.

But, I haven't found a cartridge that I am overly happy with yet. I used a DL110 a long time ago, and remember liking it for its tone and weight to the music, but not really digging up enough detail to satisfy long term.

I have been using an Ortofon 2M Black for a few months, but have just moved that on because it wasn't warm enough, sounding a bit analytic for my tests. The detail retrieval was excellent, but the overall tone wasn't for me. Maybe a mismatch with the arm? Who knows.

The sound I am after is a wide soundstage, warmth, rich textures, detail (but not bright) and good punch. I do like to also have good bass depth and weight. Hmm, sounds like I am after the perfect cartridge! I definitely don't want a boring sound, and overly warm, just the right amount

I am running Totem Arro speakers, Naim Nait XS amplifier and Pure Sound P10 phono stage.

So, here are the options I would like your advice on

1. Nagaoka MP500 (I can get this for £400 in the States when I visit next week)

2. Denon DL103R (+ swap the P10 for suitable phono stage, probably Arkless modified CA 640p. It really is very good)

3. Benz Micro Ace SH (a bit too expensive at £575, but have heard good things)

4. Audio Technica AT33EV (can purchase this for £330 from the States. Also would need the Arkless modified 640p)

So... Those are the options. Which do you think?

[DSJR]

The Nait XS isn't the last word in refinement especially in the treble and I wonder if the P10 is correctly matched to it im-pedance wise???????

The 2M Black is probably the best fixed coil cartridge at the moment and should give you what's there on the vinyl with no emphasis to speak of. getting the setup of the fine diamond tip right is paramount though to best sonics.

I think the MP500 may be unstable in the Jelco and I don't think bass richness was ever a feature of the models above the MP11/110?

The Benz is well liked around here...

The AT's tend to be balanced for Japanese vinyl and many of them when used in the UK and US? can sound toppy.

Dynavector 20X2???????

[ThELiZ]

I did wonder the same with regards to the P10 and Nait XS match. I'm not sure if they are a good match.

I reckon I will try and shift it on and get an Arkless 640p that can be matched to whatever cartridge I buy.

How would you describe the sound of the Dynavector?

At the moment, the Benz is looking good.


Thanks for your input.

[hifi_dave]

Nothing wrong with the P10 into Naim. I wouldn't change that because of any theoretical mismatch.

The Ortofon 2M range is on the thin, analytical side and that's what you are hearing.

[julesd68]

The Ortofon 2M range is on the thin, analytical side and that's what you are hearing.

In which case you would love an MP-500 - I used to have an MP-50 and it kept me very, very happy for a long time.

[hifi_dave]

Sold bucket loads of Nagaoka back in the 80's but then the prices were very reasonable.

[ThELiZ]

Thanks for the replies.

Such a shame demos of cartridges are rare. I am buying blind and can only rely on what I hear.

Maybe the Dynavector 20x2H or the Benz Ace SH into my P10 are the best options for now, or the MP500.

Tough decisions!

[worrasf]

Dynavector 20X2???????

:thumbsup:

Spoken like a gentleman Dave ;)

Steve

[worrasf]

Maybe the Dynavector 20x2H

I have a 20x2L in my Technics/Jelco 750 and just love it
Steve

[ThELiZ]

Right, I think I've made a decision... Maybe.

Option 1: Keep the P10 and get the 20x2H

Option 2 (the 'balls to the wall' approach): Sell the P10, buy a P75 and 20xL.

Obviously option 2 is more expensive, if I cannot find a 2nd hand P75. What would you do?

[hifi_dave]

I'd recommend keeping the P10 and choose a cartridge to suit your ears.

[ThELiZ]

Maybe the 20x2H then? I really can only go on other's opinions. I have no way of hearing any of these carts before I buy.

Maybe more reading will be necessary to get an insight into the different carts.

[oceanobsession]

Well ive had a denon dl 103 and audio technica 33ptg with valve phono,
The denon has more body but less smooth at the top and a little grainy in the vocal, but great for the money, the audio technica 33 ptg beats it in every other way but it lacks body in the mids.

[julesd68]

Adam,

I would buy either the MP-500 or the AT cart since you can get such a good deal on them in the States - it's a no brainer - you can sell them on with ease and not lose any money if you don't like them ... Or you could even buy both, and just sell the one you don't like!!

[ThELiZ]

Thanks for your input. Mid range body is not something I would be happy to sacrifice, tbh. Sounds like the AT carts may not be good for me. Saying that, I did hear the AT33EV on Dave Cawley's Evo Timestep TT at the Bristol Show. Through some Denon AH-D7000 (which I own), it sounded great. Huge bass, detail, and great texture... But, this could have been the great match with his SME 309, also the AH-D7000 are very warm with huge bass.

[ThELiZ]

Adam,

I would buy either the MP-500 or the AT cart since you can get such a good deal on them in the States - it's a no brainer - you can sell them on with ease and not lose any money if you don't like them ... Or you could even buy both, and just sell the one you don't like!!

Hi Julian,

Thanks for the great advice :). I think you may be on to something here!

I think I may be able to try both and sell one on here for not much loss.

The only issue is that if I try both of those carts, with my current phono stage (P10), I am limited to trying out the MP500 only.

[vacdac]

There seems to be an 'Elephant in the room' that you're somewhat oblivious to Adam.

Seems obvious to me that if you want to explore LOMC carts that an SUT is what you need. Particularly as you already have an excellent valve phono stage & Puresound even offer a matching SUT for this phono stage.

In the case of H.O. moving coil carts in general, their low output brethren are pretty much always more capable & in the case of H.O. variants, I haven't heard one yet that betters its low output sibling.

I have an AT33EV meself & its an excellent cart which is a great match on the Jelco SA750d & it sounds really good through a decent valve stage + SUT.

[julesd68]

The sound I am after is a wide soundstage, warmth, rich textures, detail (but not bright) and good punch.

This is exactly what my old MP-50 sounded like - but you don't have to take my word for it - Macca has it now, so ask him what he thinks!

If you can get a new MP-500 for £400 that is superb. I would try this first - if it doesn't rock your world then sell it and go down the low output MC + SUT route.

[ThELiZ]

Regarding 'The elephant in the room', I have been putting off the idea of a SUT, as I have no real clue as to what to look for. The thought of using a MC capable phono stage interested me far more.

Right, I think I will stick with my original plan and try out the MP500. Like you say, Julian, I can always move it on.

Thanks for your input.

[walpurgis]

SUT every time in my book!

I have three good ones and use them with a Graham Slee ERA Gold V with great results.

I haven't heard it, but the Pure Sound SUT that matches the P10 seems popular these days and is not overpriced.

I generally use ZYX MCs, but they are not to everyone's taste as they are very revealing.

I've not used them, but I gather that Shelter MCs offer a more euphonic type of sound which I expect would be nearer your taste, although I believe either ZYX or Shelter are likely to offer a noticeable step up in quality over the DL-103/DL-103R or any version of the AT-33.

I liked the DL-103R I had, but the ZYXs utterly wiped the floor with it!

[worrasf]

Right, I think I will stick with my original plan and try out the MP500.


Just to throw another curved ball at you - if you are going to "park" the idea of LOMC/SUT and stick to MM (and why not) then you really should also consider a Decca. I also use a rebuilt Decca blue in my Technics/Jelco - phenomenal dynamics. As many on AoS will tell you they can be tempremental but when they work boy do they work.

Steve

[walpurgis]

Yes, Deccas are certainly spectacular. Not the easiest cartridge to live with though.

I've owned several Deccas and find my ZYX R100 H2 offers a somewhat similar approach, with speed and dynamics, plus amazing transparency.

[Macca]

[QUOTE=julesd68;417877]This is exactly what my old MP-50 sounded like - but you don't have to take my word for it - Macca has it now, so ask him what he thinks!

[QUOTE]


'tis true, the MP50 has a little bit of everything, one of the best all rounders I have owned.

[zenmaster]

Yours was the first post I have read that described the 2m blk in that manner. Of all the carts you mentioned, the 2m should be the least "analytical" of all mm's. I wonder if something else isn't going on with your system. I run my 2m with the tail down just a hair and the sqared up proper to the groove. It is a fairly sensitive cartridge to alignment. Of course I am on the back nine and my hearing isn't what it used to be but I don't see any of the carts you mentioned as an improvement. I think the lomc/sut route will get you what you are looking for but I can't help but think you can get more out of that 2m.

[RobbieGong]

Yours was the first post I have read that described the 2m blk in that manner. Of all the carts you mentioned, the 2m should be the least "analytical" of all mm's. I wonder if something else isn't going on with your system. I run my 2m with the tail down just a hair and the sqared up proper to the groove. It is a fairly sensitive cartridge to alignment. Of course I am on the back nine and my hearing isn't what it used to be but I don't see any of the carts you mentioned as an improvement. I think the lomc/sut route will get you what you are looking for but I can't help but think you can get more out of that 2m.

Absolutely couldn't agree more Bernard ! The 2M Black when set up right is a stunning cart which the guys here know I've said so many times. It is very sensitive to alignment and doesn't take any prisoners if you dont take time to set it up properly with time and with a mindset for meticulous - but it is so worth it. I've even read where Ortofon have mentioned something about a system with easy or good vta adjustment is recommended. It's known that the Black is sensitve to alignment / proper set up (check the net). Hence I have to have on the fly vta because after all else has been done this is my final perametre. It takes time but I can just hear when she's right. When she isn't she can sound wrong - maybe analytical, laboured, even dull, but when she's 'right' - My Gosh !! :D ( you'll know that all those positive reviews and accolades wernt lying, trust me on that !! :)

[ThELiZ]

Soooo... I went and bought a Lyra Delos. Once I have it up and running, I will post my findings :)

[Tarzan]

Soooo... I went and bought a Lyra Delos. Once I have it up and running, I will post my findings :)


Mmmmmm:popcorn: