View Full Version : Bang and Olufsen
Audio Al
17-02-2013, 10:22
Bang and Olufsen
During my time on the forum I cant recall any comments on the above equipment
When I was young this equipment cost fortunes
Is it no good ? overpriced for what it is ? inferior quality
Lots for sale on ebay etc
Curious to see what your opinions are :)
jandl100
17-02-2013, 10:26
Adam 'Beobloke' (now there's a clue as to his tastes!) had an all B&O system at last years Scalford Show, in a tiny room!
Nice, pleasant sound.
You couldn't really call it hi-rez in the audiophile sense, because it wasn't!
I'm sure the large B&O speakers had a lot to do with the overall presentation.
Laidback is probably the best single word descriptor.
Smooth, no sharp edges to the sound at all.
Interesting to listen to, but I wouldn't want to live with that system, personally.
But I feel sure that individual B&O components have their own story to tell. :)
Rare Bird
17-02-2013, 11:03
I have no time for them. Models i like were
Beogram 1000/1001
Beogram 1202
Beogram 3000 (Thorens 'TD124')
Beolab 5000 Amplifier
Beomaster 5000 Tooner
I have no time for them. Models i like were
Beogram 1000/1001
Beogram 1202
Beogram 3000 (Thorens 'TD124')
Beolab 5000 Amplifier
Beomaster 5000 Tooner
Sorry, this is going to sound like an exact repeat of a post earlier Rare Bird.. I'm not stalking, it's a coincidence I promise.
So you DO have time for them, in fact you like their following models:
Beogram 1000/1001
Beogram 1202
Beogram 3000 (Thorens 'TD124')
Beolab 5000 Amplifier
Beomaster 5000 Tooner ??
(Rare Bird: "I hate it! Except that I like some of it." )
Thing is that B&O are marketed as a lifestyle brand, expensive, look flash etc
Essentially though, they are mostly all-in-one systems. Basically it's what the hifi enthusiast wants to escape from. It's buy and forget stuff, hence you're not going to get much talk about it on forums.
That's not to say that there aren't some good peices there from their past and maybe their modern stuff sounds good? Who knows..
Rare Bird
18-02-2013, 07:52
Sorry, this is going to sound like an exact repeat of a post earlier Rare Bird.. I'm not stalking, it's a coincidence I promise.
What ever :rolleyes: You need to start being less serious. Why would i list half a dozen models if i had no time for em? ;)
If you seek information about B&O products have a look here http://www.beoworld.org/
Beobloke
18-02-2013, 08:58
If you seek information about B&O products have a look here http://www.beoworld.org/
And here - http://beocentral.com/
Bang and Olufsen
During my time on the forum I cant recall any comments on the above equipment
When I was young this equipment cost fortunes
Is it no good ? overpriced for what it is ? inferior quality
Lots for sale on ebay etc
Curious to see what your opinions are :)
Ah, B&O. Well, obviously because it all looks nice, it's got to be rubbish, hasn't it? Sadly, it's a lot more complicated than that.
Firstly, yes, it looks nice but those sleek exteriors hide some very clever technology which is generally very well built. B&O have always excelled at the technical side of things but their aim with all of this has never been to produce the ultimate sound, rather the best combination of sound, style and user experience. Remember that this is the company that brought the linear tracking turntable to the mass market, fine tuned Dolby's HX recording system for consumer use and then licensed it back to Dolby, and has one of the most advanced loudspeaker test facilities in Europe. Their current flagship speakers are 4 way, have 2500W of amplification per speaker and, with a press of the button on top of them, send out test tones and, with the aid of an internal microphone and DSP circuit, tune their bass output to the room!
As to the main questions:
Can you buy better sound for less money? Yes, certainly with the new equipment. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of secondhand bargins to be had.
Is it any good? Like most companies, B&O have made their fair share of duffers. They have also made plenty of good stuff that people know about, and there are a few 'sleepers' in the range. As Andre says, the original Beolab 5000 amplifier and Beomaster 5000 tuner are stunners - my own Beomaster 5000 tuner was actually bought new by the BBC in 1968 and spent 40 years in Broadcasting House monitoring the output of GLR!
I also love dearly the 8000 system that I showed at Scalford Hall last year that Jerry mentioned. Maybe it isn't the last word in razor-sharp resolution but it's just so damn NICE to listen to! Again, the play the radio through one, there always seems to be something worth listening to on"
As a final thought, more than a few 'anti-B&O' types I have encountered have never actually sat down and listened to a B&O system. Their responses can be quite interesting when they finally do...
One of the linear tracking TTs is featured in the film Dawn of the Dead (1978)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077402/?ref_=sr_2
I've been tempted to buy one for many years, they do look super cool.
For years B&O gear was unfairly dismissed as "Habitat Hi-Fi": imaginative styling and good looks, but a 'triumph of style over substance'.
This is unfair. As others have mentioned earlier B&O products not only looked good but were also very good sound wise. Certainly the decks and electronics cited by André. I have a B&O Beomaster1700 tuner. It not only looks good but sounds good as well.
Their early cassette machines and CD players were also very well regarded. And I would just love to get my hands on a B&O MMC20E cartridge.
Back in the late '60s I was interested in B&O gear (their cartridges in particular) and remember a friend of my parents, who on seeing me looking at their brochure said "Oh I couldn't have anything with the name 'BO' on it in the house" (! :eek:). So there are some people who are misled by labels. (For my part, I could never have a fridge by the Swedish manufacturer SMEG).
Finally B&O may be regarded a "lifestyle" hi-fi, but then so too is Linn.
Aren't their best days behind them, though? I get the feeling that, like many other companies, B&O produced their most revered and best sounding products 30-odd years ago.
However, I'm open to be educated differently! :)
Just how relevant are B&O products in today's marketplace for buyers of high-end audio equipment, keen on getting the biggest 'bang for their buck'?
Marco.
Beobloke
18-02-2013, 12:54
Aren't their best days behind them, though? I get the feeling that, like many other companies, B&O produced their most revered and best sounding products, 30-odd years ago.
However, I'm open to be educated differently! :)
Just how relevant are B&O products in today's marketplace for buyers of high-end audio equipment, keen on getting the biggest 'bang for their buck'?
Marco.
To be honest Marco, no-one who wants the most bang for their buck would ever have bought a new B&O item!
I find myself a little saddened by their current range as little of it appeals to me. They have gone majorly into digital music and most of their new items are based around this, with at least four of them being iPad/iPhone/streaming based all-in one units. Their televisions are still superb, although hugely expensive but, for me, their biggest problem was the death last year of designer David Lewis, who has styled most of their equipment for the last 30 years or so. Some of the new items they have come up with since then are truly hideous IMHO, particularly the WW2 Gas Mask holder that is the Beolit 12!
Frankly,the only things that I really like from their current range are their active loudspeakers, which also happen to sound good as well. I still think the aforementioned Beolab 5s are some of the best speakers I have ever heard and once you factor in the 4 way design, the DSP and built-in 24/96 DACs, the 15" bass drivers and the 5000W of amplification per pair then suddenly their £13,500 price tag doesn't seem quite so absurd.
Those speakers would certainly be interesting to hear, although I'm not sure they'd quite be my thing. The reason I mentioned about 'bang for buck' was because of what the OP asked when he started the thread:
During my time on the forum I cant recall any comments on the above equipment
When I was young this equipment cost fortunes
Is it no good ? overpriced for what it is ? inferior quality
Given your comments of: "To be honest Marco, no-one who wants the most bang for their buck would ever have bought a new B&O item!", and as AoS is populated mainly by those who value very highly the concept of 'SPPV', I thought that this factor was relevant and explains why the subject of B&O kit doesn't come up much here! :)
Marco.
Beobloke
18-02-2013, 14:35
No, it's a fair question but I was just pointing out that new stuff is best avoided if value for money is top priority!
In vintage terms, it's very different as there are more than a few absolute belters out there that can be had for very small money indeed, including:
(1) The Beomaster 5000 tuner Andre and I mentioned earlier - mine cost me £150
(2) One of their later radial tracking record decks Beogram (1800/2000/5000/RX2) can be had for around £100 or so with a good cartridge and I personally think sounds better than a budget Rega/Pro-Ject.
(3) Their last vinyl-cassette-radio music centres (Beocenter 7000/7002/7007/7700) are unloved due to their size and weight but the latter has full two way remote control, full seven day timer programming and the same cassette mechanism as the Beocord 8000! Current going rate - £50 or so.
(4) Best of all, I can even name one of their cassette decks which will wipe the floor with a low to mid end Nakamichi when properly set up and yet can be had for £30. :eyebrows:
Noted, Adam... What about reliability and the availability of spare parts for the above items, should anything crucial decide to go pop? :)
You see, that would be a MAJOR concern for me. Being someone who wouldn't have a clue how to fix anything that went wrong, when I buy vintage gear, I need to have the piece of mind of knowing that whatever equipment I was using could be fixed by someone, in the event of a problem.
I would be *seriously* pissed off if I had to give up using a piece of equipment that I'd grown to love the sound of because it was now irreparable..... I don't 'do' nightmare situations like that! :nono:
Remember that, unlike Andre and you, any equipment I own becomes an integral part of my system for a very long time. I don't collect old gear for the sake of it.
Marco.
And I would just love to get my hands on a B&O MMC20E cartridge.
I have just checked my desk drawer for my spare.... not there... argh I hope that I did not give it to my brother when I donated him my Beogram 2200.
That kid Looses everything
Beobloke
18-02-2013, 16:40
Noted, Adam... What about reliability and the availability of spare parts for the above items, should anything crucial decide to go pop? :)
You see, that would be a MAJOR concern for me. Being someone who wouldn't have a clue how to fix anything that went wrong, when I buy vintage gear, I need to have the piece of mind of knowing that whatever equipment I was using could be fixed by someone, in the event of a problem.
I would be *seriously* pissed off if I had to give up using a piece of equipment that I'd grown to love the sound of because it was now irreparable..... I don't 'do' nightmare situations like that! :nono:
Remember that, unlike Andre and you, any equipment I own becomes an integral part of my system for a very long time. I don't collect old gear for the sake of it.
Marco.
Marco,
Ask most repair centres and they won't touch B&O because they're "so complicated"! The fact is, however, that one you've figured out how to take the things apart (which admittedly, can be something of an art form...), they are made of exactly the same capacitors, resistors and ICs as any other items of the era. Yes, there are a few microcomputer control chips running things in the higher specification designs but failure of these is extremely rare and usually only the result of a lightning strike or power surge which would kill anything that was plugged in at the time, regardless of what name it had on the front panel.
In summary, parts availability is no worse than other similar vintage equipment and much better than most. Equally, service information is easily available and B&O Service Manuals are very thorough, not just a circuit diagram and a parts list on a couple of sheets of badly photocopied A4 paper.
Why, what have you got your eye on?! ;)
Rare Bird
18-02-2013, 17:00
Marco:
The repair things is one of the reasons i stick to the eara of equipment i do. I wouldnt touch an amp with IC's with a barge pole. Any old amp i have chosen from back then can easily be repaired. I favour Idler wheel decks like the Lenco cos they never break down, their aint owt to break down really :lol:
What ever :rolleyes: You need to start being less serious. Why would i list half a dozen models if i had no time for em? ;)
It was said in humour .. :rolleyes:
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