Roksan Xerxes & Tabriz Zi

[julesd68]

Would appreciate some thoughts on the original Xerxes with Tabriz Zi - has anyone heard one? Specifically would like to know about it's style of presentation and tonal balance - what I can expect ? Cheers. :)

[Stratmangler]

Couldn't tell you how it sounds, but I recollect reading that a serious fault with many original Xerxes was a sagging mdf top-plate.

[hifi_dave]

You will find as many people liking the Roksan as like the LP12. It has it's fans and you should hear before you buy.

They do have problems with sagging top plates, so beware.

[kenworthy100]

I owned a Xerxes Tabriz zi, Goldring 1042 for about 20 years and sold mine a couple of months ago to a friend who had always wanted one.

The presentation is quite hard to describe, I had previously owned a Sondek and didn't like the bloating in the bass end, when I heard a Xerxes I could hear bass notes clearly and vocals had a clarity without harshness, it had an amazing soundstage, detailed without being fatiguing. From Led Zeppelin to unaccompanied Bach violin music timing was excellent.

As with everything the decks are getting older, some Xerxes suffered an unfortunate problem with the top board sagging, this can be remedied with a spacer under the main bearing (Roksan supply a kit, mine sagged about 1mm but remained stable for 10 plus years), the early XPS 1 power supply was troublesome, the XPS2 was more reliable and subsequent offerings have been much better.

[julesd68]

John that is most helpful indeed!

I'm going to PM you about a few other details if that's ok ...

[steveledzep]

I had an original Xerxes with Tabriz Zi and MC25FL for about ten years. I changed it last year but retained the arm and cartridge.

Mine suffered from plinth sag and I purchased the bearing shim kit from Roksan. This lifts the platter away from the top plate, but because it is sagging towards the rear you have to jack up the plinth at the rear in order for the platter to be level.

A few years ago there was a guy in Ireland selling Xerxes top plates. I purchased one. He listed quite a number and I suspect they were seconds because the screw holes to mount the bearing were slightly askew. An easy thing to correct though. I had the deck with this top plate for about 3 years and it didn't sag.

Mine was an early model and i had the original XPS 1 power supply. It failed a number of times. There are two large resistors in the box that get very, very hot and fry the other components within. A friend of mine, handy with a soldering iron, moved these resistors to the rear of the box and mounted them externally on a heatsink. I had no further troubles after that. I can probably find a photo if you are interested.

I sold the deck on eBay last year and the new owner is delighted.

[julesd68]

Thanks Steve, all good to know.

If you can find an example with minimal sag, does that mean it's not likely to sag any more?? :eyebrows:

Any idea how the RB300 compares to the Tabriz on the Xerxes? It must sound better than it looks ...

And interested to know how are you finding the Gyrodec in comparison ...

[steveledzep]

Originally, my Xerxes had an SME 3009 SII arm. So arm and platter was quite a weight, no wonder the top plate sagged. Don't know if other factors may contribute, room temperature or humidity for instance ? I'm unable to say when a top plate becomes stable. My new one was, but only ever fitted with the Tabriz.

When I sold it, I sourced an RB250 off eBay and fitted an AT95E that I had here as a spare. When I set it all up to try before listing for sale, I was very surprised how the RB250/AT95 combination sounded. On that basis, I think an RB300 with good cartridge will do the Xerxes proud.

My Gyrodec is an indulgence of a longing for one ever since I saw my neighbour's about 30 years ago. I'm not that discerning a listener (getting on now) but I don't regret changing to the Gyro, neither would I refuse to have my Xerxes back. Both delight !

[julesd68]

Yes the Gyrodec is a tidy looking deck - quite pricey now aswell with decent arm and psu ...

I'll try to keep an open mind about the RB300!

[Audioman]

Yes the Gyrodec is a tidy looking deck - quite pricey now aswell with decent arm and psu ...

I'll try to keep an open mind about the RB300!

I auditioned the Gyro (basic AC ps) v the original Xerxes in the mid 90's. Conclusion was the Gyro was the better sounding deck. No worries about saggy top plates.

Paul.

[kenworthy100]

John that is most helpful indeed!

I'm going to PM you about a few other details if that's ok ...

No problem, reply sent this morning.

J

[The Grand Wazoo]

I auditioned the Gyro (basic AC ps) v the original Xerxes in the mid 90's. Conclusion was the Gyro was the better sounding deck.

Apart from the date (I was a bit earlier) that was my experience exactly.
Although the Xerxes had some clever aspects to it's design, it wasn't really particularly clever to rely on a cantilevered piece of veneered MDF not to fail. The fix is a bodge which obviates the original design principle, is it not?

[chris@panteg]

I always found the Xerxes a bit bright and zingy , I have Richard Black review from hifi choice 1991 , he was less than impressed with a Xerxes/ Artemis / Shiraz , still in the right system ? I remember Alvin Gold being it's biggest supporter and he probably still is .

[hifi_dave]

Apart from the date (I was a bit earlier) that was my experience exactly.
Although the Xerxes had some clever aspects to it's design, it wasn't really particularly clever to rely on a cantilevered piece of veneered MDF not to fail. The fix is a bodge which obviates the original design principle, is it not?

There are a couple of 'fixes' but they are not complete IMO. Putting shims under the platter seems a bit of a bodge and then you need to tilt the plinth to level the platter. The only complete fix is to replace the whole top plate but I'm not sure that is offered.

[julesd68]

The dreaded sag isn't really an issue if you can find a good example that hasn't been used with a high-mass tonearm, of which there seem to be plenty.

I'm looking at other options but in value-for-money terms I think the Xerxes deserves serious consideration.

[Audioman]

The dreaded sag isn't really an issue if you can find a good example that hasn't been used with a high-mass tonearm, of which there seem to be plenty.

I'm looking at other options but in value-for-money terms I think the Xerxes deserves serious consideration.

Why not look for a used Xerxes 10 or 20, which were redesigned to eliminate this problem, if you like the Roksan sound ? The 10 must be approaching 15 years old now and is pretty similar to the current model.

Paul.

[julesd68]

hi Paul,

I love the look of the 20 but way out of my price range sadly.

The 10 sounds an excellent idea but not seen any of these on the second-hand market so far ...

[Audioman]

hi Paul,

I love the look of the 20 but way out of my price range sadly.

The 10 sounds an excellent idea but not seen any of these on the second-hand market so far ...

There was one on Gumtree but it's now gone. They must be good as people don't appear to be selling them. Emporium have a new TMS3 for £4.5K which is much less than half retail !

[Pete The Cat]

I run an original Xerxes just for the hell of it as well as a Garrard 401. I'm in the camp of both are good, simply different (eg the 401's bass is untouchable, the Xerxes crisper at the top end). The Xerxes had an RB300 and the combination worked together well and now has an Origin Live RB300 which is an improvement. I feel it's an under-rated deck at the moment and if you get one with no / minimal sag and a working PSU you can feel pleased with yourself.

Pete

[Audioman]

I run an original Xerxes just for the hell of it as well as a Garrard 401. I'm in the camp of both are good, simply different (eg the 401's bass is untouchable, the Xerxes crisper at the top end). The Xerxes had an RB300 and the combination worked together well and now has an Origin Live RB300 which is an improvement. I feel it's an under-rated deck at the moment and if you get one with no / minimal sag and a working PSU you can feel pleased with yourself.

Pete

Agree as a used buy it's underpriced because of the sag issue. If this is more than marginal I can imagine it being a serious even terminal problem as parts are not availablle. That is why Roksan offered a conversion kit to reduce cost when the Xerxes 10 came out. Production of the original deck stopped some time before I believe when this problem became apparent on early decks.

[Spectral Morn]

Probably my least favourite turntable to set up in any version be it vintage or more recent and not one for the amateur to tackle as frankly it will tax the expert.

There are major designs flaws and issues, some of which have been touched on all ready, the sagging top plate being the biggest and I agree with Chris the repairs to sort this are a major bodge and very hard to do. Other issues are: getting any finger grease on the inner platter as it affects the speed (so you need to wear gloves), levelling the plinth may leave you with the platter not level so you may need to adjust the horizontal settings on the bearing (nightmare to do). The tolerance on the bearing is such that even under pressure it takes the platter ages to go down, there are no access holes in the platter to give you access to the back level adjuster to level the plinth, so you have to remove the inner platter, spindle assembly. I could go on but I won't.

The deck is open , detailed, fast and articulate and sits just to the leaner side of neutral so in the wrong system it could be bright.

I hate the Zi arm, the intelligent counterweight is a nonsense that may have good engineering about it but in reality its swinging counterweight eventually can cause the stub it sits into to move and the weight setting goes off - a very common problem I encountered re these decks going out of tune. When cueing the arm it will depending on cart height bang of the turntables top plate as well.

The Roksan Nima is a lovely arm though.

Frankly I dreaded getting one into service as I knew it would be a challenge and take time. In fact I came close to throwing one out the front door of the shop I worked in once and that was brand new just in for demo a Xerxes 20 if I recall right I could not get the bloody thing level I ended up having to adjust the bearing :eek::steam: not acceptable in my opinion.

So from me its a big thumbs down.

The Gryo deck in its various guises was a joy to work on and only once in awhile did I get one that taxed my set up skills. Re sound it has more weight and scale than a Xerxes but still has an open and detailed sound.


Regards Neil

[hifi_dave]

Well, that says it all, far more robustly than I was prepared to go but all true. Not only all that but we rarely sold one up against an LP12 of the day - both of which were comprehensively trounced by the Notts Space Deck and that was pretty much, plug and play. Why would you put yourself through it ?

[RobbieGong]

Hi Jules, I've followed your thread and the resulting posts keenly and can only draw one conclusion - the Xerxes is out :eek:. My advise would be that the thread proceeds with advise sought re: recommendations for a great deck within your budget (Could you remind us what that is), with a fast and detailed presentation, similar to the Xerxes that will bring the best out your Tannoy Chatworths :)

[julesd68]

The cat's out the bag!

Yes, I do have some Tannoy Chatsworths to play with but haven't got them set up just right yet, although initial tests have been promising.

I think the best thing is for me to start a new thread and detail precisely what I'm looking for.

[julesd68]

Probably my least favourite turntable to set up in any version be it vintage or more recent and not one for the amateur to tackle as frankly it will tax the expert.

So from me its a big thumbs down.

Thanks for all the info Neil - you obviously know the deck very well so I think that I will heed your advice at this stage!

[Audioman]

I knew the Roksan had issues in set up but had no idea they were that bad. Surprised they haven't sorted out this on the new versions. Looks like the sensible choice for Julian is going to be between Mitchell and Notts Analogue then. I can't see why either won't suit a Tannoy based system. Glad I never bought one.

Paul.

[hifi_dave]

Thanks for all the info Neil - you obviously know the deck very well so I think that I will heed your advice at this stage!

Do you really need to ditch the Source ?

[julesd68]

That's a good question David.

My concern with the Source is that its potent bass abilities are slightly overwhelming in my system. My treble just isn't sparkling and that's what I want to get back, whether it's with a new arm or new deck ...

I have been considering other possibly more suitable arms before ditching the Source. I have the possibility of one of the original Odyssey tone-arms. Maybe a uni-pivot is another option to get a slightly faster sound.

[Pete The Cat]

...I thought it was just down to me being slow and perfectionistic when it took me 3 weekends to set up :doh:

Actually there is one other catch not previously mentioned. The belt pulley is mighty close to the inside edge of the platter.

Nonetheless it didn't seem to bother Inspector Morse :)

Pete

[Audioman]

That's a good question David.

My concern with the Source is that its potent bass abilities are slightly overwhelming in my system. My treble just isn't sparkling and that's what I want to get back, whether it's with a new arm or new deck ...

I have been considering other possibly more suitable arms before ditching the Source. I have the possibility of one of the original Odyssey tone-arms. Maybe a uni-pivot is another option to get a slightly faster sound.

Perhaps trying a brighter cartridge with a leaner bass may be a good starting point such as AT. Then maybe go for a Hadcock or SME M9 or why not the relatively inexpensive Roksan Nima?

[hifi_dave]

...I thought it was just down to me being slow and perfectionistic when it took me 3 weekends to set up :doh:

Actually there is one other catch not previously mentioned. The belt pulley is mighty close to the inside edge of the platter.

Nonetheless it didn't seem to bother Inspector Morse :)

Pete

I thought he had an LP12 with his Quad gear..:scratch:

[Audioman]

I thought he had an LP12 with his Quad gear..:scratch:

The Rok was featured in the very first episode in which the fictional manufacturer turned out to be the murderer. I think it featured briefly in 2 or 3 episodes after. Later Morse appeared to have changed to Cassette. I'm actually sure they kept changing the hi-fi you saw in his house so it's possible an Lp12 was substituted at some stage. Typical lack of continuity between episodes and series. At least they kept the same Jag or did they have a couple spares?

Paul.

[hifi_dave]

At one time I used to supply the Beeb with loan 'vintage' equipment for all manner of who-dunnits and sit-coms. They used to pay quite handsomely for a brief loan and often, the equipment would only feature for a second or two and often cut out completely.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm actually sure they kept changing the hi-fi you saw in his house so it's possible an Lp12 was substituted at some stage. Typical lack of continuity between episodes and series.

Sounds spot on for normal behaviour in many hi-fi casualties! I think they probably got their research right.