View Full Version : World Design Pre2 pre-amp - Review / Blog
jandl100
25-03-2009, 08:07
Got this on eBay for £230-something delivered. Arrived yesterday. Many folks seem to rave about World Design kit, and I've had my lovely Meitner solid state pre for, oooh, it must be months now, so I couldn't resist when this little pre came along! :)
As many folks here will know, these usually come as kits from WD (although they will make them up for you for a fair price). This was a kit one and to my barely competent eye seems to have been well put together. Just as well I didn't try to build a kit as it needs someone who'se actually competent with a soldering iron and can be trusted not to burn his house (and probably the rest of the neighbourhood) down as part of the kit construction process :lol:.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/WDpre2f.jpg
More inputs & outputs than an AV receiver! :scratch:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/WDpre2r.jpg
And here is what it is up against in Chateau Jerry, my Meitner PA6i, hailing from Canada ....
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/MeitnerPA6i.jpg
Call the WD Pre2 a valve amp, though? One little ecc82 sitting pretty in the middle of the pre-amp module and that's it! :confused:
Solidly made, quite hefty, and looks dead cool on the rack. A little bit of blu-tack over the searchlight beam (aka the blue LED) and all is OK. :)
One slight oddity, maybe, is that sound only issues forth when the little switch in the middle of the fascia is on 'tape' rather than 'source'. Did the guy wire that up wrong or are my expectations wrong? Whatever, seems to work AOK with the switch flicked downwards.
The sound? Well, if I'd had to guess which was the valve pre from the sound I'd have chosen the Meitner solid state. The WD Pre2 is really explicit, with very tightly focussed images and quite an 'exciting' sound - I suspect there is a slight treble edge, although this calmed down after a half hour or so (or maybe I got used to it). Clarity in abundance. Female vocals are a real treat! I played a mono LP of a string quartet, and for the first time didn't hanker after stereo to help separate out the four instruments - the WD pre laid it all bare in mono. Nice, and very impressive.
I don't know what make the valve is yet, but a little tube rolling might not go amiss here (good fun anyway!). Perhaps a vintage Mullard? (I've my eye on one on eBay ).
Really enjoying this on my first few hours listen, as it seems to complement my Bel Canto eVo4 power amp which is a tad on the warm/'musical' side of the fence. But can I live without remote control of volume .... ? ;)
You got the Pre2 and PSU for quite a decent price. To be pedantically accurate the Pre2 is WAD, not WD. WAD folded, the guys running it seemed to vanish. WD was then set up by Peter Comeau, he has introduced the Pre3 which is also a twin triode stepped down by an output transformer.
The Pre2 could be a little picky about placement, the OPTs in the Pre2 tended to pick up hum, often people would place the PSU a considerable distance away from the Pre2. If you have no hum then either it matches your system well or the Pre2 has been turned into a cathode follower. The coupling capacitor in the Pre2 impart quite a lot of character to its sound so it would be useful to know what it has.
jandl100
25-03-2009, 09:06
Coo - way too technical for me, Clive! :confused:
Cathode follower? Dunno. :scratch: I plan to open it up to get at the valve - I could take a photo, would that help?
What sort of sonic 'character' do you mean?
There is certainly negligible hum. :)
Is the Pre2 heavy? If it has the original output transformers in there with the original circuit it will quite heavy. If it's lighter than the PSU then it's been modified. Most likely it's original. Many people who build these try different coupling capacitors, paper-in-oil sound very different polypropylene. Polyprop can be accurate or solidstate-like depending on your point of view. Likewise paper-in-oil can be lush and atmospheric or dull depending on system matching and your preferences.
jandl100
25-03-2009, 09:17
The pre is def significantly heavier than the PSU. Would a pic help elucidate the situation?
It sounds original. A pic might help id the coupling cap, unless you can spot it and say what type it is. I believe the originals had orange coloured capacitors.
Ali Tait
25-03-2009, 17:49
Gimme a shout when you come to sell it Jerry! :)
Gimme a shout when you come to sell it Jerry! :)
Ignore him Jerry...
It's my turn! :)
Ali Tait
25-03-2009, 18:40
I was first!! :lolsign:
jandl100
25-03-2009, 18:41
Highest bidder? ;)
I was first!! :lolsign:
But you already have more amps than fingers and toes! :lol:
Spectral Morn
25-03-2009, 19:34
Got this on eBay for £230-something delivered. Arrived yesterday. Many folks seem to rave about World Design kit, and I've had my lovely Meitner solid state pre for, oooh, it must be months now, so I couldn't resist when this little pre came along! :)
As many folks here will know, these usually come as kits from WD (although they will make them up for you for a fair price). This was a kit one and to my barely competent eye seems to have been well put together. Just as well I didn't try to build a kit as it needs someone who'se actually competent with a soldering iron and can be trusted not to burn his house (and probably the rest of the neighbourhood) down as part of the kit construction process :lol:.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/WDpre2f.jpg
More inputs & outputs than an AV receiver! :scratch:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/WDpre2r.jpg
And here is what it is up against in Chateau Jerry, my Meitner PA6i, hailing from Canada ....
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/MeitnerPA6i.jpg
Call the WD Pre2 a valve amp, though? One little ecc82 sitting pretty in the middle of the pre-amp module and that's it! :confused:
Solidly made, quite hefty, and looks dead cool on the rack. A little bit of blu-tack over the searchlight beam (aka the blue LED) and all is OK. :)
One slight oddity, maybe, is that sound only issues forth when the little switch in the middle of the fascia is on 'tape' rather than 'source'. Did the guy wire that up wrong or are my expectations wrong? Whatever, seems to work AOK with the switch flicked downwards.
The sound? Well, if I'd had to guess which was the valve pre from the sound I'd have chosen the Meitner solid state. The WD Pre2 is really explicit, with very tightly focussed images and quite an 'exciting' sound - I suspect there is a slight treble edge, although this calmed down after a half hour or so (or maybe I got used to it). Clarity in abundance. Female vocals are a real treat! I played a mono LP of a string quartet, and for the first time didn't hanker after stereo to help separate out the four instruments - the WD pre laid it all bare in mono. Nice, and very impressive.
I don't know what make the valve is yet, but a little tube rolling might not go amiss here (good fun anyway!). Perhaps a vintage Mullard? (I've my eye on one on eBay ).
Really enjoying this on my first few hours listen, as it seems to complement my Bel Canto eVo4 power amp which is a tad on the warm/'musical' side of the fence. But can I live without remote control of volume .... ? ;)
Hi Jerry
How about an in depth comparative review between the two...just to put more flesh on the above post. I have a respect for Ed Meitner designs despite not having heard any. Your shared experience with both units could bring light to the eternal Valve VS Solid State pre debate. You write well go on give it a try. This is SOG after all.;)
Regards D S D L
Ali Tait
25-03-2009, 19:53
True Mike,but one thing I don't have is a decent pre!
True Mike,but one thing I don't have is a decent pre!
Bah!... sod it, I'll build one. ;)
Ali Tait
25-03-2009, 20:28
:lolsign:
jandl100
25-03-2009, 23:07
Hi Jerry
How about an in depth comparative review between the two...just to put more flesh on the above post. I have a respect for Ed Meitner designs despite not having heard any. Your shared experience with both units could bring light to the eternal Valve VS Solid State pre debate. You write well go on give it a try. This is SOG after all.;)
Regards D S D L
Hi Neil
Yep, I fully intend to do just that! You may note that I titled this thread Review / Blog .... i.e. an ongoing thread detailing my findings as I settle in with the wee beastie. :)
.... but, yes, the Meitner brand has a very strong following on t'other side of the Pond - which is why I was tempted to buy the pre-amp in the first place from Nick at the Emporium (top bloke, btw). I must admit that I have been very pleased with it indeed. It just seems to make music in a very natural and unforced way - quite unusual for a solid state pre, in my experience. And it's a lovely thing to look at, too - that woodwork is a thing of beauty.
More anon ..... ;)
Spectral Morn
25-03-2009, 23:21
Hi Jerry
I am looking forward to reading your blog/review,as it progresses....:)
Regards D S D L
jandl100
26-03-2009, 07:32
Interesting listening session last night.
The WAD pre2 is by no means having it all its own way. I didn't notice at first - funny how impressions grow and change their focus as you start to listen more to a component! - but the imaging thru the WAD doesn't quite have the focus and 'in the room' presence of the Meitner. Sound images of vocalists, for example, are larger and vaguer - more amorphous and less solid.
There's more openness and tautness to the sound overall though thru the WAD, in terms of temporal rez rather than spatial. Things seem to happen that bit faster.
Towards the end of the evening my attention began to be drawn toward the tonality/richness of the sound. I'm not quite sure what is happening there yet, but certainly some differences from the Meitner (which is quite a rich sounding & tonally vibrant device).
Interestingly, there seems at the moment to be more of a difference between the WAD and the Meitner when using LP rather than CD. LP sound definitely has more grip and tautness and interest thru the WAD. Same tt, same phono stage (see sig below). Just the line level pre has changed. I'm not sure what to make of that! :scratch:
Mornings are quiet here in Chateau Jerry, as swmbo is a late riser, so I'm about to pop the lid on the pre and have a peep at the valve. I'll take a photo of the innards whilst I am at it ....
jandl100
26-03-2009, 07:44
Well, that's a surprise ... the valve is a Sovtek 6922 / ecc88.
Hmmm. Any thoughts on that?
There's a Mullard ecc88 on eBay auction ending this evening ... ;)
And here's a pic of the innards .... Nice hefty looking trannies!
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/WDPre2innards.jpg
Now that you've taken a photo I'm reminded that there is no coupling capacitor so that's one less thing to worry about!
Ali Tait
26-03-2009, 08:31
The Mullard would probably be quite an improvement over the Sovtek I should think Jerry.
Ali Tait
26-03-2009, 08:34
Or perhaps a Telefunken if you could find one at a sane price.Mind you,6dj8's are quite a bit cheaper than ecc82/3's
jandl100
26-03-2009, 08:42
Yep, I'll def bid on that Mullard and then see what else comes along.
Good fun, tube rolling! :)
Spectral Morn
26-03-2009, 09:28
Yes the Mullard is worth ago....You will find that the type and quality of valve will make a surprising difference to things like tonality. The New Sensor Tung-Sol reissue valves are worth a look too.
Regards D S D L
Ali Tait
26-03-2009, 10:13
Be careful though.There are a lot of fakes on ebay.
jandl100
26-03-2009, 10:27
Be careful though.There are a lot of fakes on ebay.
How do I tell?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320352975602
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260380989342&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:uk
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ECC88-6DJ8-MULLARD-NOS_W0QQitemZ310131333428QQihZ021QQcategoryZ39997Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:scratch:
Over on the WD forum there are a few folk saying good things about 'TJ Full Music' valves too... possibly one to consider?
Not sure if they do an ECC88 though...
How do I tell?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=320352975602
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260380989342&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:uk
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ECC88-6DJ8-MULLARD-NOS_W0QQitemZ310131333428QQihZ021QQcategoryZ39997Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:scratch:
Jerry,
The Langrex one is probably a safe bet, I've used them before and they seem pretty trustworthy.
Ditto - I agree. Langrex are cool :)
Jerry, before you go any further, why not send a PM to Steve Sheils (SPS) on the forum as he's got 1000s of quality NOS valves, probably some Telefunkens too, which will without doubt be better than anything you're looking at above.
I've bought loads of valves from Steve (at very good prices) and he tests them all before sending them to you, so you have the piece of mind of knowing that what you're getting works and also tests properly :smoking:
Just a thought, matey!
Marco.
jandl100
26-03-2009, 17:38
Thanks Marco - I've dropped SPS a PM along those line.
Nice one. Let us know how you get on :)
Marco.
Ali Tait
26-03-2009, 18:27
Hi Jerry,
Yes a reputable company like Langrex will be fine,though may cost a little more.The problem on ebay is the many unscrupulous people who rebrand valves and sell stuff as NOS when it is no such thing.To know something is genuine,you need to know the internal structure of the valve in the year it's claimed to be.A lot of stuff is touted as,say,40's or 50's NOS when it is much newer than that.A good thing about Telefunken for instance is that they were all manufactured with a "<>" stamped into the glass on the base,so it's easy to tell the genuine article.Obviously the usual applies as far as ebay sales are concerned-be suspicious of auctions that don't have good quality close-up photos of the valves,so you can have a good look!
jandl100
09-04-2009, 22:06
I've been doing a bit of tube rolling over the last week or so ....
The pre-amp takes a single ecc88 as standard, a Wammer kindly loaned me a vintage Mullard - I almost always like Mullards, but not this time and/or in this circuit! :scratch: Analytical to a fault - simply laid bare all of a recording's multi-mike trickery. There is such a thing as too much information after all!
Then an eBay search for ecc88 turned up a pcc88 (7DJ8 - a 7 volt version of the 6 volt ecc88/6DJ8). A bit of Googling turned up some comments on the US Upscale Audio site saying that pcc88 is usually (but perhaps not always) a drop in replacement for an ecc88 and is worth trying. The eBay valve was advertised as a Telefunken, but once it had been won, paid for and delivered it turned out not to have the Telefunken diamond on the base, so almost certainly a fake. Nonetheless it sounded absolutely fab - the best the pre-amp had sounded.
Then a yellow print Mullard ecc88 from Langrex. Yes, much better than the white print one I tried, but not quite up to the excellent standard of the fake Telefunken pcc88.
I'm now trying a Tesla pcc88 from Colomor. Yes! - even better than the "Telefunken" pcc88. :)
I'd strongly recommend anyone with an amp using ecc88 valves to try the pcc88 version as a direct replacement. They just seem to sound better! :smoking:
Spectral Morn
09-04-2009, 22:17
Very interesting Jerry
I wonder if the pcc88 would work in a Bat VK3i pre I am playing with at the moment. It uses 6922 which is an EEC88....ummmm. It also uses a pair of 6V6's as regulators.
I have some yellow label Mullards and White as well, but to be honest I am not that impressed with them. Everyone mostly raves about them. My Dad was/still is a ham/amateur radio user, and these date from when he used valve rigs. So date from the mid/late 50's to early 60's. I got his box of valves. Most used but some not, still in wrapping paper and boxes.
Regards D S D L
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