View Full Version : Subsonic/Rumble Filter
Daniel75
08-02-2013, 15:11
Hiya,
Quick question - can "subsonic/rumble" filter be substituted by decent equalizer with high/low pass filters? It is essentially same thing? Or am I wrong?
Cheers
D
Dingdong
08-02-2013, 15:34
Does the equaliser have a setting for arounf 10Hz or less?
Daniel75
08-02-2013, 16:52
Does the equaliser have a setting for arounf 10Hz or less?
Im looking at one of the Behringer EQ's and it says:
This filter is preset on the FBQ1502 to remove all content below 25 Hz
So thats what I need?
FBQ1502 (http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FBQ1502.aspx)
Dingdong
08-02-2013, 16:55
It'll probably work.
Are you suffering with cone flap or something?
Daniel75
08-02-2013, 17:02
It'll probably work.
Are you suffering with cone flap or something?
Aye - I was playing some albums when I noticed that my woofer is moving like mad. Did some reading and it looks that subsonic filter is required (my amps do not have it)
D
A filter at 25Hz will likely have effects higher up the frequency range, it won't be a brick wall and even if it is there will be some "ringing". Without knowing the rest of your system it's hard to advise. A phono stage with an IEC filter is more what you need I suspect.
what TT are you using ? is it belt drive ?
Dingdong
08-02-2013, 18:03
Aye - I was playing some albums when I noticed that my woofer is moving like mad. Did some reading and it looks that subsonic filter is required (my amps do not have it)
D
Your woofer should move in and out. That's its job. If you are noticing the woofers moving in and out due to warps then filtering may be of help.
Rare Bird
08-02-2013, 18:04
Dan:
Sounds like something is wrong if your getting excessive cone flap..I don't think you have a Cartridge/Tonearm mismatch! but do you have a slighly higher compliance cartridge to try?
i got this , on the AR turntable , hence the question , belt drive , turned out just needed a good clean of the platter / motor pully , and the belt .
Mr Kipling
08-02-2013, 19:18
It'll probably work.
Are you suffering with cone flap or something?
These things can happen when you get to a certain age, Dan. Yer cone does tend to flap about a bit the older you get. . .
How have you got your turntable situated? Has it just started?
Rare Bird
08-02-2013, 19:21
Steve how cum you have an tash version of Beoman's Avatar?
Mr Kipling
08-02-2013, 19:30
André, on my last break at work I was a tad bored - and it came to me, in a blinding flash! What a Jolly Spiffing Wheeze, I thought! I was just going to run with Adam's for a day or two, but I think I'll give one or two others the same treatment.
Daniel75
08-02-2013, 19:31
haha cheers guys:lol:
At the moment its Rega Planar 3/Goldring 1012GX. Phono - Musical Fidelity VLPs so no subsonic filter at all. Speakers - Rega RS5
So belt drive. Everything clean and working fine from what I can see.
What striked me is not that woofers were working but how much they were moving. I only noticed it because I decided to take the grilles off the speaker:)
D
Rare Bird
08-02-2013, 19:33
André, on my last break at work I was a tad bored - and it came to me, in a blinding flash! What a Jolly Spiffing Wheeze, I thought! I was just going to run with Adam's for a day or two, but I think I'll give one or two others the same treatment.
What it was i thought your posts were infact Adam till the penny dropped :lol:
Mr Kipling
08-02-2013, 19:39
Oh, I don't have the smoothe-tongued devilry that Adam has.
Mr Kipling
08-02-2013, 19:50
Is it not feedback-coupled? Can you not try moving your deck and amp out of the room to see if it still happens?
The deck and arm combination you have shouldn't be a huge issue, BUT, the resonance between the two will be 10 or more db above the mean level. Cone Flap is very different to bass and is rather out of control, wasting power and possibly causing damage if not controlled.
Having a filter at 25Hz will certainly cure it if the equaliser is always used, but you run the risk of the bass reproduction being adversely affected. Quad engineered a sub 30Hz roll-off on the now ancient 33 and this was on both the phono AND line output, giving a kind of one-note-stunt-bass feel.
My off-beat solution to your problem would be to try a Shure Me97XE cartridge with its damper. The old 97HE worked and sounded a treat in Rega decks and any sub-bass hash was very well controlled by the damper, which doesn't really detract from the sonics IMO. The compliance of the HE was usefully lower than older Shures I remember and even without the damper being used, I reckon the arm-cartridge resonance should be under better control...
The main problem with all Rega decks is the siting requirememts. I suggest their excellent wall bracket, which has risen somewhat in price sadly, but does the job on bass reproduction on a suitably solid wall (away from corners of possible)...
:doh:my problem was due to ignorance and greeasy fingers ,if you get a bit of "sticky" muck on the pulley or belt , it transfers to both , so when spinning the leading edge (leaving the platter) tends to stick to each other , if it appears worse (between tracks in the silent bits) then a sure bet , wipe clean the pulley / inner belt , and platter it runs on , hope this works as its free , it did for me :)
hifi_dave
08-02-2013, 20:22
haha cheers guys:lol:
At the moment its Rega Planar 3/Goldring 1012GX. Phono - Musical Fidelity VLPs so no subsonic filter at all. Speakers - Rega RS5
So belt drive. Everything clean and working fine from what I can see.
What striked me is not that woofers were working but how much they were moving. I only noticed it because I decided to take the grilles off the speaker:)
D
Why don't you just put the covers back on and forget it ? After all, it wasn't/isn't causing you any trouble.
Mr Kipling
08-02-2013, 20:36
Why don't you just put the covers back on and forget it ? After all, it wasn't/isn't causing you any trouble.
W-H-A-T-!-!-?-!-!
:clap: yep flutter , woofers flapping out of phase :doh:
W-H-A-T-!-!-?-!-!
Daniel75
08-02-2013, 21:49
Cool. Ill start with wall mounting my deck - wanted to do this long time ago:) Then cartridge and/or phonostage with "subsonic" filter:)
Cheers guys
D
Flapping woofers should be avoided for several reasons.
- High subsonic output uses amplifier power and in the case of valve amplifiers can cause premature saturation in the transformers. It can also cause the bass drivers to bottom-out early in the presence of bass signals if played loud.
- It causes intermodulation distortion with two-way loudspeaker systems since the midrange sounds are being radiated from a moving driver plane! - which is just hopeless for good clean sound.
There is no excuse for not including sub 20Hz cut on a phono stage, and the gains will potentially far outweigh negatives. In fact with a good filter there are no negatives.
To the OP, if the Behringer sits in circuit normally, pull down the very bottom of the response. Your system will play cleaner and louder.
Rob
There is no excuse for not including sub 20Hz cut on a phono stage, and the gains will potentially far outweigh negatives. In fact with a good filter there are no negatives.
To the OP, if the Behringer sits in circuit normally, pull down the very bottom of the response. Your system will play cleaner and louder.
Rob
The problem is there aren't many good filters around. I find they lean off the bass.
Daniel75
15-02-2013, 09:46
Ill go back to my original question then - is there a place for equalizer in a hifi system? I googled this very question and it looks like another "do power cables make a difference" thing:)
From what I gathered EQs with low/high pass filters can act as "subsonic/rumble" filter. Equalization is an added benefit and Im quite curious to see what it can do.
So maybe Ill try and see. We suppose to trust our ears arent we? :)
Is anyone here using equalizers?
You are best trying it. One works in one system/room may not work in another. There are so many variables.
Audioman
15-02-2013, 13:56
Cool. Ill start with wall mounting my deck - wanted to do this long time ago:) Then cartridge and/or phonostage with "subsonic" filter:)
Cheers guys
D
Concentrate on cartridge/arm match and deck set up/isolation. IMO sub sonic filters rather spoil the sound of vinyl especially if you are using 'full range' speakers. Using a record clamp can help flap from warps. Also check speakers are not wired out of faze.
Paul.
mikamote
22-05-2013, 18:45
hi there,
there is very good active subsonic filter from
http://www.hormann-audio.de/
its called tuningmodul and i have it. it works great.
you can choose frequency and even enhance bass.
my seas excel w26 are like nailed.
i wish i could get rid of the rumble in the first place
but i have not found the solution yet.
hormann has a very good and very adjustable phonopre
as well supa 3.0. i am very happy with it.
i combined my denon dl103r with denon stepup au300lc
recently and that brought a lot of detail.
so i use the preamp just as mm preamp.
tt is a technics 1210 with a jelco750d.
best regards,
mika
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