View Full Version : Swap my Stanton 681EEE MkIII for other MM cartridge?
Stanton 681EEE MkIII Moving magnet Cartridge
I purchased the above on here about 18 months ago from Andy (Tarzan), but after several tries, have not really got on with it. When I bought the cartridge, it had "10 - 20 hours" on it and I have added no more than another 10 hours during the few times I've used it. It's a wee bit too tall to get the VTA spot on with my RB300 with Michell VTA adjuster.
I believe the current new price of the Stanton to be about £100.
I'd like to swap the Stanton for either another MM cartridge (anything considered) or a Nagaoka MP11 or MP15 stylus (low hours)
http://www.simister.com/public/stanton.jpg
The Stanton comes boxed with stylus guard, clip-on stabilizer/brush, 3g headshell weight and instructions. No mounting hardware. The earthing-strap has been removed to stop ground loops with grounded tonearms.
So - anyone fancy a swap? Let me know what you have.
I have a NOS Goldring G820 but I should mention that it has a spherical stylus so it will probably be a bit of astep down from the Stanton. On the plus side it has seen no vinyl as yet since I bought it to fit to the Jelco arm I am buying from Shuggie along with his LAD TT, and I'm not due to receive either of those until after Scalford next month.
Thanks Dave. I'll certainly consider that one - can you wait a few days whilst I see what other folks may have?
Of course, I'm in no hurry to see the Goldring dance out the door ;)
mad-moon
07-02-2013, 18:19
Stunning cart...I'm using an older 680e..which is als a cracking cart...used a nagaoka cart a while back..an aluminium bodied cart...can't think of the model..but found it too bright...personally...I'd be keeping the 681eee..
Stanton 681EEE MkIII Moving magnet Cartridge
I purchased the above on here about 18 months ago from Andy (Tarzan), but after several tries, have not really got on with it. When I bought the cartridge, it had "10 - 20 hours" on it and I have added no more than another 10 hours during the few times I've used it. It's a wee bit too tall to get the VTA spot on with my RB300 with Michell VTA adjuster.
I believe the current new price of the Stanton to be about £100.
I'd like to swap the Stanton for either another MM cartridge (anything considered) or a Nagaoka MP11 or MP15 stylus (low hours)
http://www.simister.com/public/stanton.jpg
The Stanton comes boxed with stylus guard, clip-on stabilizer/brush, 3g headshell weight and instructions. No mounting hardware. The earthing-strap has been removed to stop ground loops with grounded tonearms.
So - anyone fancy a swap? Let me know what you have.
How about an original Shure SC35C ?
This is not a current version with non US stylus, it is a US sourced one .
I'll get pictures up tonight when I get back from work, assuming your interested that is.
How about an original Shure SC35C ?
This is not a current version with non US stylus, it is a US sourced one .
I'll get pictures up tonight when I get back from work, assuming your interested that is.
Thanks - another one to consider. I'll make a definate decision after the weekend.
Your choice guv'nor, but to swap what was a top end cartridge at a similar price to a V15, Ortofon m15e Super or ADC XLM (from memory) for a cheapo Nagaoka?
The prices of cartridges these days is stupid, many having increased in price way out of inflationary considerations, whereas the 681EEE is now little more in price than a "budget" model (AT120E), let alone the Nagaoka, which was in MP11 form, a good value cheapie...
Good luck with the swap, but please don't under-value it. marco's right on this one especially ;) it's a refined and slightly restrained cartridge, rather than a "showy" one :)
I have a triple E and the Nag MP11 and have to say I prefer the MP11 although the MP50 beats 'em both into a cocked hat, although so it should given the price difference. That is on a standard SL1200, your mileage may vary.
Rare Bird
09-02-2013, 08:56
I might have said this beefour but my fav Pickering cart was the High Compliance 'XLZ-7500S' with 'PLZ'.. sounded great
http://www.pickeringuk.com/XLZ7500.html
http://www.pickeringuk.com/plz.html
Your choice guv'nor, but to swap what was a top end cartridge at a similar price to a V15, Ortofon m15e Super or ADC XLM (from memory) for a cheapo Nagaoka?
The prices of cartridges these days is stupid, many having increased in price way out of inflationary considerations, whereas the 681EEE is now little more in price than a "budget" model (AT120E), let alone the Nagaoka, which was in MP11 form, a good value cheapie...
Good points, well made Dave. :)
Some 'old stalwarts' have certainly remained tightly fixed to their prices of many years ago (or at least not gone crazy). Personally I was never a fan of the MP11, which cost me itro of 18 quid from 'HifiMarkets' (remember them?) back in the early 80's. That was the same price as a Grado F3E+ which was a much better cartridge IME. Used in a variety of turntables, I could never gel with the MP11. Shame the later Grados have gone a little smooth'n'cuddly - the older ones were a riot, if a little uncouth at times.
As to pricing, it does shock me how the firms - who are huge concerns knocking out hundreds of the little blighters at a time - charge so much for them, relative to what they used to cost. Yen/£ exchange and inflation can only be responsible for so much.
Back to the Stanton - would be an interesting comparison to put this up against a 'modern' 100 quid cartridge, especially bearing in mind would the Stanton should cost now if it followed a similar level of price inflation to its original peers. :)
I only had an old original 681EEE stylus, carelessly stored but "new" and couldn't really be a*sed about it until Marco, in his *way,* "insisted" I give it a proper re-evaluation. When I started at KJ in 1974, the V15 III wasn't hugely well thought of and the ADC XLM and 681EEE were the cartridges of choice for most of the sales guys (this is before the moving coil re-invasion, let alone the AT20SLa, which ruled for a while along with the sharp toned JVC X1 [X1, Z1? the Shibata one anyway :)]).
Anyway, I bought a cheap 680 body, mounted it up in the Dual 701 (a period turntable for these cartridges), set to 1.2g or thereabouts (I'm not mental over these things) and was genuinely surprised how good it was. The bass reproduction in the 701 is just a little soft, but it is quite well defined and easy to live with, the mid is lovely and clear and the treble, rather than being bland and dulled/rolled off as Colloms suggested in a couple of iffy, negative reviews, was certainly restrained, but clear and easy to adjust to IMO..
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0546.jpg
I suspect an AT440MLa would be a modern equivalent at todays prices and the two would be polar opposites I reckon. The AT150 has a much finer stylus and cantilever, but I remember how good the original 881S's were (now THAT would still really hold up today I think) and this would be interesting - I don't know if the internals of the 680 and 880 series were similar or different, as the 981's were apparently..
Hope you all haven't fallen asleep by now, but that's why I think the 681EEE deserves a better quality swap - maybe for a 2M Blue at least, if not the bronze.........
dantheman91
09-02-2013, 14:47
i have one of them. Nice cartridge
Gents - many thanks for your comments; they are most welcome and are steering me towards a re-think here.
Taking a step back, I have four cartridges here (all second hand):
Nagaoka MP11, the Stanton, Shure M75ED2 (with new generic stylus) and an untried Ortofon VMS20EC2 (don't trust the stylus).
I really like the Nagaoka even though it's not the last word in detail, it's unfailingly musical and doesn't draw attention to itself. The thing that worries me is that I don't think the stylus is in it's first flush of youth and am at the point where I would like to get a replacement lined up. This is why I said I would be happy with a new stylus (NP11 or NP15) for the Nagaoka as a swap for the Stanton.
The Shure is my next favourite, but I find it a bit rolled off at the top and slightly one-note in the bass compared to the Nagaoka. It also emphasises sibilants slightly - something I seem to be somewhat sensitive to. Maybe a better stylus (Ed Saunders?) would help here.
Now the Stanton. It seems more extended and more detailed than both the Shure and the Nagaoka, but my main problem with it is sibilance - no matter what I do, I find it over-emphasises sibilants to an unacceptable degree. My copy of Steely Dan 'Gold' - a half-speed mastered copy on MCA Audiophile - is one of the first things I play when I've changed something on my turntable, and Deacon Blues really shows this up ("Learn to work the SSSSSSSSSSaXXXXXXophone...").
Now it could be that the Stanton is the better cartridge and is showing up a problem that the Nagaoka is masking, but I don't know what that might be?
Have you tried listening to the Stanton without the brush Kieth?
Have you tried listening to the Stanton without the brush Kieth?
Yes Dave. In fact I've not tried it WITH the brush...
Cheers,
Keith
I had a similar issue with the EEE which I eventually put down to not being able to level the thing out in a Sumiko headshell without using two mats to get the height, which introduced other issues. I still have it and may revisit it at some point. Agree with your comments re the MP11 - I think in truth it is just the better all-rounder.
Yes Dave. In fact I've not tried it WITH the brush...
Cheers,
Keith
Might be worth trying it with the brush perhaps? ;)
Might be worth trying it with the brush perhaps? ;)
That's just what I thought when I typed my reply... :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Keith
Try the brush but I doubt it will improve things. Have you got VTA, VTF and alignment absolutely bob on? I was forever adjusting with this cart but there is a sweet spot, It is just finding it.
mad-moon
10-02-2013, 14:47
chuck the brush in the bin...
Yes Dave. In fact I've not tried it WITH the brush...
Cheers,
Keith
chuck the brush in the bin...
...but not before you have discounted it from the equation ;)
mad-moon
10-02-2013, 14:54
Try a Grado cartridge.. one of the prestige range..I'm using an older Grado GC at the mo on a Decca unipivot arm..it is a lovely cart..
DON'T chuck the brush in the bin - PLEASE send it to me, since I have a Zero 100 awaiting such a device - the 681EEE works well in the Zero 100 BUT ONLY with brush attached.......
I can't speak for the series 3, but the original was anything BUT sibilant, the tracking being as good as the Shure v15 III for the most part. What's the diamond like? have you checked it for stuck on crunge? The AT605 cleaning fluid is great for de-coking a clogged up stylus and seems quite safe.....
morris_minor
10-02-2013, 18:51
Keith - I have a Grado Prestige Gold1 with about 15 hours on the clock that I'm not getting on with. Do you fancy a swap with this?
http://p-mount.net84.net/sony_ps-x600/IMG_6474-1.jpg
Of course, there's always the wee beastie below although I can't vouch for how many hours are on it. It does still sound nice and fresh however ;)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/900IGCCloseUp.jpg
Keep that one and have a new diamond grafted on instead when the time comes. A paratrace should upgrade it beautifully I reckon and I believe the suspension lasts well enoug to make this a good idea I think...
I am going in a completely different direction Dave, or at least I will be soon after Scalford ;)
Rare Bird
10-02-2013, 21:08
Aye i'm going a complete different direction anorl owt for the easiest, i get pished orf with the shyitty hobby :rfl:
mad-moon
11-02-2013, 05:32
Now this cart is a legend...Goldring 900 igc....drool...Now I'd swap the stanton for this one...hee-hee..
Of course, there's always the wee beastie below although I can't vouch for how many hours are on it. It does still sound nice and fresh however ;)
http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af316/Sgtgrash/Hifi%20Stuff/900IGCCloseUp.jpg
Unfortunately one needs be a Greek hero and embark on an epic quest of the Gods to find suitable replacement stylii for one, unless bottomless pockets are de rigeur, in which case a quick trip to ESCO will rsuffice.
Rare Bird
11-02-2013, 11:54
This is the problem with a lot of stonkingly good old MM cartridges the lack of original replacement styli!
Ive been scratching my head for days trying to think of a good un that has NOS Styli availability without breaking the bank. I don't trust compatables no matter how good people say they are.
Low Mass Arm/High Compliance combo's regardless how bigger a believer i am in it, i'll be taking a more can't care less attitude now. As long as my records sound good to me, who gives a hoot about technicaties! i spend far too much time farting about with details..
DON'T chuck the brush in the bin - PLEASE send it to me, since I have a Zero 100 awaiting such a device - the 681EEE works well in the Zero 100 BUT ONLY with brush attached.......
Dave - IF I end up keeping the Stanton AND I find the brush doesn't help, then I'll gladly post the brush off to you
I can't speak for the series 3, but the original was anything BUT sibilant, the tracking being as good as the Shure v15 III for the most part. What's the diamond like? have you checked it for stuck on crunge? The AT605 cleaning fluid is great for de-coking a clogged up stylus and seems quite safe.....
Stylus looks perfectly clean - my favourite way to clean a stylus these days is to CAREFULLY swipe a dry sliver of 'Magic Sponge' (melamine foam) back to front over the stylus tip a few times - very effective in removing crud. Also, I never play a record that hasn't been cleaned at least once on my Moth RCM, so the stylus hardly ever picks up anything.
Try the brush but I doubt it will improve things. Have you got VTA, VTF and alignment absolutely bob on? I was forever adjusting with this cart but there is a sweet spot, It is just finding it.
Alignment is spot on using a Vinyl Engine 'Rega Stevenson Arc Protractor'. VTA is a tiny bit 'rear end down' when measured by a bubble-level. My Rega RB300 with Michel VTA adjuster won't quite go high enough to get it absolutely level. I've go a spare blank armboard that I made that's a bit thicker than the one I'm using now - it just needs drilling to take the Rega - that should give me enough height to get VTA spot on. I've tried the full recommended range of VTF values (set using digital scales) and have experimented with different anti-skate settings, but still can't eliminate the silibance.
All, The discussion here has prompted a re-think on my part.
I will give the Stanton another try when I next have some spare time as I now feel that there is either something else wrong that is emphasising sibilance in my set-up or that there is a fault with the Stanton. In either case, I feel it not appropriate to go ahead with any swap, so offer is for now withdrawn.
Many thanks for all your swap offers and sorry for messing you about.
. VTA is a tiny bit 'rear end down' when measured by a bubble-level. My Rega RB300 with Michel VTA adjuster won't quite go high enough to get it absolutely level. I've go a spare blank armboard that I made that's a bit thicker than the one I'm using now - it just needs drilling to take the Rega - that should give me enough height to get VTA spot on. e.
I'd do it - I think that is the source of the problem.
Oh FFS fellas. Just gently squeeze the rear of the 680 body up towards headshell a touch. The effin' bracket is such soft metal, you can align the thing with ease without messing around with tonearm height ;)
http://www.simister.com/public/gbh.jpg
mad-moon
12-02-2013, 08:58
:lol:
http://www.simister.com/public/gbh.jpg
Rare Bird
12-02-2013, 10:55
All Techy owners should have one :D
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