My new 12" Tannoy Monitor Golds

[Gerard124]

450 miles driving on Wednesday and I'm now the proud owner of 12" Tannoy Monitor Golds in Chatsworth cabs.

When I got them home I had a few teething problems with one driver (cone rub) but with some guidance I repositioned the spider and all is now o.k.

Built one new cabinet on Friday, still some final sanding and waxing to do.

I've maintained the internal dimensions of the Chatsworth - but the cabinet is built up using double layers of 18mm ply glued and screwed together for each side.

I will take some better pictures later - these are naff :

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/gedlup/Thorens%20TD%20124/IMG_1388_zpsa688e7c0.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/gedlup/Thorens%20TD%20124/IMG_1391_zps6b5e89e8.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/gedlup/Thorens%20TD%20124/IMG_1388_zpsa688e7c0.jpg

[DSJR]

Is there no hope at all for you people? :lol: :respect:

What state are the Chatsworth cabs in? Are they as solid as RFCC found in his, or are they a bit resonant and, well, "boxy?"

Good luck with the build. I reckon you'll share many happy hours of music reproduction together :)

[Reffc]

Lovely speakers...welcome to the Tannoy club!

Obvious question...how do they they sound?!

36mm ply cabs should be heavier than the Mansfield cabs (mine are a 2-man lift now that the plinths are completed and damped out) and stiffer too. What are you padding the internals out with and what crossovers are you using with them?

[Gerard124]

Is there no hope at all for you people? :lol: :respect:

What state are the Chatsworth cabs in? Are they as solid as RFCC found in his, or are they a bit resonant and, well, "boxy?"

Good luck with the build. I reckon you'll share many happy hours of music reproduction together :)

The Chatsworths are pretty shot - hence the quick start on new cabs.

[Gerard124]

Lovely speakers...welcome to the Tannoy club!

Obvious question...how do they they sound?!

36mm ply cabs should be heavier than the Mansfield cabs (mine are a 2-man lift now that the plinths are completed and damped out) and stiffer too. What are you padding the internals out with and what crossovers are you using with them?

They sound gorgeous - even though I'm listening to one new cab and on 40 year old Chatsworth this afternoon.

We are going to construct cab no.2 on monday, then wax em up.

I need to research padding and get some ordered.

Crossovers are originals.

[Reffc]

If they sound good, perhaps worth leaving the crossovers as-is although there's an obvious place for improvements over the originals. For wadding, I use this stuff:

http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/cabinet-parts-accessories/dedshete-wadding-acoustic-foam-gasket-ls35a-loudspeaker-cabinet/acoustic-damping-wool.html

It's 75% long lambswool so ideal for the job.

Also well worth replacing the original speaker binding posts with something like the CMC silver plated copper ones (£13 per pair) and the internal wiring from crossover to 4 pin plug if it's the original 0.5mm lighting flex.

[wee tam]

also , if you can raise them 12/14 inches they really open up , imho , get the centre at head hight

[Gerard124]

also , if you can raise them 12/14 inches they really open up , imho , get the centre at head hight

I was thinking the very same thing last night !

[wee tam]

what size is your footprint ? shame you are so far away , i have a pair of solid metal (30 kg) stands with a top plate of 21 x 15 inch you could have tried

[wee tam]

though having said that you are in the manchester area so less than 150 miles

[walpurgis]

Good man! As was said, "welcome to the Tannoy club". You'll hear faults, because Tannoys are not perfect, but once you've tuned your ear to them, you will unfortunately (or fortunately?) find that nothing else will do. It happened to me and I'm pretty sure several other AOS members.

Keep us posted on your progress.

(by the way if you aren't using the old grille cloths from the Chatsworth can I buy them from you? I have a Tannoy project they would be handy for)

[Gerard124]

Thank you - I doubt any speaker is perfect, but these are very enjoyable to listen to.

I'm pretty sure the grill cloths are glued to the front baffle?

[Gerard124]

what size is your footprint ? shame you are so far away , i have a pair of solid metal (30 kg) stands with a top plate of 21 x 15 inch you could have tried

If we decide to raise I will probably knock up a matching ply box and weigh it down with a concrete block inside.

[walpurgis]

I'm pretty sure the grill cloths are glued to the front baffle?

The grille cloths may be glued at the edges, but are more likely to be stapled from behind the baffle which if I remember unscrews from behind.

Geoff.

[julesd68]

Tannoys are not perfect, but once you've tuned your ear to them, you will unfortunately (or fortunately?) find that nothing else will do.

Gentlemen, not having heard any, do vintage Tannoys have a "house sound" as such?

[Reffc]

Gentlemen, not having heard any, do vintage Tannoys have a "house sound" as such?

They do Julian. Each driver (ie monitor Golds or HPD series) has it's own distinctive attributes, and the different cabinet designs also have their own respective dynamics. Overall, those things aside, I would describe the Tannoy house sound in a number of ways: Effortless, big scale, fluid and natural mid range (voiced very nicely for the human voice), and imaging that many other loudspeaker designs simply cannot match. Their flaws are related to three main issues from what I've seen and heard:

1. The implementation of the concentric tweeter...there is a noticeable lift just above the crossover point which makes amp matching...interesting! The magnitude and impact is hugely marked between different driving amplifiers but it can be tamed to be virtually unnoticeable (not quite, but to relatively unobtrusive levels). This comes about because of a combination of things such as the horn loading, the impedance dip at 1 to 1.5KHz followed by a sharp rise at 2KHz. How the amplifier behaves or controls the speakers in this region largely dictates whether it'll be a good match IMHO;

2. Cabinets: Many domestic vintage cabinets were poorly made even by the standards of the day. They were large boxes, often made of thin chip board, often not braced and poorly internally damped. A handful of models (including some of the studio models like the Mansfields) were made more robustly and suffered less cabinet colourations. Best bet is to start from scratch and make new cabinets up to original plans using Birch ply. Tannoy did in fact publish some of their cabinet plans which sort of suggests (as with Garrard decks and available plinths) that whilst you could go out and buy the model of the day, it was probably better to make your own up!

3. crossovers: Design was good as Tannoy knew how they wanted their drivers to sound but component quality was from the industrial components of the day and hifi grade components didn't exist. Not an issue in reality for some components as (for example) I have tested all the original resistors in my crossovers and they're either spot-on or within 5%. Later vintage ones used polyprop caps which are actually ok but the treble energy controls were poor quality affairs and give rise to large fluctuations between units. They are best bypassed if not consistent (can be tested between speakers using a multimeter). Internal wiring is very poor quality (0.5mm lighting flex) and best replaced.

Those are what I have found to be the main culprits with mine but I don't know if these things apply universally (others may wish to comment).

The other differences are between the units. The two most commonly found units are the MG's and the HPD's. the HPDs are simply Monitor Golds which have had lighter and stiffer cones used and uprated voice coils. Combined, these allow a higher power handling (65w). Monitor Golds I've heard sound very sweet through the mid range but have lacked a little bass punch, partly due to the cabs no doubt but partly because their self resonance is higher than that of the HPDs. The HPDs are regarded by many as the better sounding drivers across the board and have a more dynamic and punchy sound. Some prefer the presentation of the MGs though and they are in high demand which keeps used prices very high. HPD's are fetching about twice what they did just a year or two ago so the gap is closing.

There are also Reds, Silvers and very rare (and expensive) Blacks. Of these, the Reds seem to be very popular.

That's about as well as I can generalise between them and their house sound/traits.

[walpurgis]

I concur generally with Paul's observations.

One thing which makes pepperpot Tannoys so addictive (to some. Like me) is not just the great imaging, but also the amazing midrange depth. The compression horn tweeter does something (within the dual concentric configuration) that I've not heard on any other moving coil speaker. It seems totally transparent to what is on the recording, you get a sense that you are hearing deeper into the mix than with other speakers. This is of course tremendously dependant on the other system components being suitably complementary (Class A or valves and a good, clean source).

Also, the SRM and LRM series, semi-professional monitors should definitely be included along with the Tannoys Paul mentioned, as they truly have the real Tannoy sound.

[julesd68]

Thanks for your insights Paul and Geoff.

If I can try and draw a parallel - I used to love my old Quad 406-2 for its most amazing midband quality. It was unbeatable on classical and acoustic music. Problem was, it tried to portray the rock music I listen to in the same "rose tinted" and lush way and after a while this just didn't work for me. I kept thinking I was missing out on the real excitement and drive of the music, and I was right ... Are Tannoys sufficiently neutral to rock out when required or are you always aware of a certain vintage / nostalgic warmth to them?

[Reffc]

Thanks for your insights Paul and Geoff.

If I can try and draw a parallel - I used to love my old Quad 406-2 for its most amazing midband quality. It was unbeatable on classical and acoustic music. Problem was, it tried to portray the rock music I listen to in the same "rose tinted" and lush way and after a while this just didn't work for me. I kept thinking I was missing out on the real excitement and drive of the music, and I was right ... Are Tannoys sufficiently neutral to rock out when required or are you always aware of a certain vintage / nostalgic warmth to them?

Oh yes....pick the right ones and they will rock as hard as any out there! MGs are a great choice for Classical/Jazz/Blues/acoustic and cab dependant, they can rock too. HPDs have quicker transient response (lower cone inertia), higher power handling and do everything the MGs do (although the mids aren't quite as sweet) but they can rock hard! Think about where they were used and for why...recording studios used them for mastering everything from classical to hard rock. The voicing is a little softer with MGs and you need to pick your cabinets with care...research is the key. Some cabs will way out perform others with identical drivers and cross-overs fitted.

I would argue that for rock or more hard charging music, the 12 inch monitors are possibly better suited than the 15 inch monitors.

[julesd68]

Sounds like Tannoys are an itch I definitely need to scratch ...

Only thing that scares me is that they aren't exactly plug 'n play - to get the best out of them there needs to be some major tweakery required which I don't have the skills to undertake.

Anyway when funds are forthcoming I think it will be a shoot-out between Tannoys and big Ushers ... :)

[Marco]

The HPDs are regarded by many as the better sounding drivers across the board and have a more dynamic and punchy sound...

{COUGH}!! ;)

The rest was good, though! :) Welcome to the Tannoy club, Gerard :cool:

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Thanks for your insights Paul and Geoff.

If I can try and draw a parallel - I used to love my old Quad 406-2 for its most amazing midband quality. It was unbeatable on classical and acoustic music. Problem was, it tried to portray the rock music I listen to in the same "rose tinted" and lush way and after a while this just didn't work for me. I kept thinking I was missing out on the real excitement and drive of the music, and I was right ... Are Tannoys sufficiently neutral to rock out when required or are you always aware of a certain vintage / nostalgic warmth to them?

Nothing really "lush" so to speak about Tannoys (you need a pair of Maggies or Sonus Fabers for that).

They can sound warm and smooth depending on setup, but when it comes to 'kick ass' drive and grip they seriously take some beating. Back when the MGs and HPDs were in production, if you had a high quality disco or wanted top sounds in a dance/music hall or club, the choice was usually Tannoys or JBLs.

I remember going to a disco back then and being knocked out by the fact the guy was using six 15" Monitor Golds in huge cabinets, which sounded incredible, really visceral!

[Gerard124]

Welcome to the Tannoy club, Gerard :cool:

Marco.

Thanks Marco, I don't think this is a club I will be leaving anytime soon :)

[Gerard124]

Second cabinet built today.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i33/gedlup/Thorens%20TD%20124/DSC_0013_zps4d18ff27.jpg

[Tarzan]

:stalks:, looks lovely mate:).

[Reffc]

:stalks:, looks lovely mate:).

+1


You "knocked" a cab up in an evening? :youtheman:

Great work!

[Gerard124]

:stalks:, looks lovely mate:).

Thanks, glad you like them :)

[The Black Adder]

Very nice, Sir... Amazing sound.

Have you updated the crossovers at all?

[Gerard124]

+1


You "knocked" a cab up in an evening? :youtheman:

Great work!

My Brother-in-Law "knocked" up 2nd cab on Monday.

It took about 6 hours using only a universal hand saw, a jig saw, wood plane electric sander and electric screwdriver :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Gerard124]

Very nice, Sir... Amazing sound.

Have you updated the crossovers at all?

No, although previous owner had a faulty capacitor replaced in one crossover.

[The Black Adder]

Ah... well. If you decide to update them it can be done for less than £100. Saying that if they sound great then leave em be. If all of the original caps are still up to scratch then that is very cool unless your like me... tinker! tinker! ahem... re-build... lol

If you have the original switches in use I can honestly say that taking them out of the circuit will be a very worthwhile update.

[Gerard124]

Ah... well. If you decide to update them it can be done for less than £100. Saying that if they sound great then leave em be. If all of the original caps are still up to scratch then that is very cool unless your like me... tinker! tinker! ahem... re-build... lol

If you have the original switches in use I can honestly say that taking them out of the circuit will be a very worthwhile update.

Probably a bit soon to be tinkering as I only picked these up last week.

I find the idea of removing the original switches intriguing - how easy is this to do and is it reversible?

[The Black Adder]

As far as I know it's relatively easy and it can be reversed as the switches just run in to the crossover so. It's just a matter of wiring the crossover to flat (if preferred).

Plenty of stuff on the net about it. Also, join the yahoo Tannoy group, chances are there is someone there who has already done it.

But... if you want to keep the crossovers original and maybe sell them on then that would easy fund a fully updated re-made crossover. Or buy a fully made plug n play one, a guy on ebay sells them and they are supposed to be quite good.

Thinking about it, I would go for the latter as the original MG gold crossovers are quite sort after.

Anyways, live with them for a while, a good little project in a few years maybe... :)

[Gerard124]

Anyways, live with them for a while, a good little project in a few years maybe... :)

Yes, just live with them - that can't be too difficult!