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Covenant
21-03-2009, 14:35
I am the last person who should start this thread but I thought it would be useful to pull together some comments from other threads. (Stan, Mods and anyone else-please correct anything I have got wrong)
Stan has provided a very high quality dac which is designed for easy modding especially with regard to the op-amps which are socketed. The stock NE5532P works fine but to put it in context are 62 pence each at Digi-key.
The replacement op-amps that I have seen mentioned to date are:
LM 4562 (recommended by Stan)
OPA2132
OPA2134
THS4032
LME4970HA (circular unit, might involve cutting legs)

The 4562 costs less than 10 for a pair from ebay. Trailer has noticed an improvement with this one as have I-fitted it today.
So lets see some more suggestions and feedback. Dont forget to detail cost and where the parts are available from.

sponge
22-03-2009, 10:28
The 4562 costs less than 10 for a pair from ebay. Trailer has noticed an improvement with this one as have I-fitted it today.
So lets see some more suggestions and feedback. Dont forget to detail cost and where the parts are available from.

I have ordered the THS4032 from Farnell (3 in case I fry one :)) and am currently running with the OPA2132. Further info to follow...

Can you please elaborate on how the 4562 is sounding with some comparisons if poss. It will also help if you say what phones you are using to run the tests.

Ken

Covenant
22-03-2009, 11:12
Great, please keep us all informed on the new op-amp.
This is my reply to someone who asked the same question by pm:
'A definate improvement in the soundstage and complex music is presented in a way that all the instruments are clearly recognisable. There is a clarity to higher notes that is really superb.
For a tenner its a no-brainer.'

Covenant
22-03-2009, 11:16
Oh sorry should have mentioned headphones. At the moment I am not using any-I had a bad experience getting some fake earphones from Ebay but I have managed to get my money back. I dont want to spend a lot as I dont like headphones very much. (But I want to see how good the headphone amp is!)

trailer
22-03-2009, 12:35
Changing out the standard op-amps for the 4562's to me was a significant improvement.

I have found more detail and a much wider sound-stage. The biggest improvement was in the treble and the mid range. For example, cymbals sound more natural and less "splashy" (have a listen to the opening of Radioheads "Airbag" off "OK Computer"), and there is more "lifelike presence" to instruments such as a kick drum and an acoustic guitar. The bass seems more refined too. Even for someone who likes a lot of bass it is still there but more controlled.

I'd be interested to hear what other think too with their op amp experiences.

drumlins4ever
22-03-2009, 14:38
Ordered a few sets of different opamps and should have them next week , will post my findings.

kbuech
22-03-2009, 19:41
I know digits are digits, and USB uses a "handshake" to confirm data is sent. NEVERTHELESS, I changed a perfectly fine standard USB cable for a U.S. $30 Belkin Gold Series USB Shielded 2.0 cable, which is well-shielded, 20 AWG wire, that has gold-plated connectors and is yet very flexible .

Hooked the A end up to my Mac computer , and the B end to my Beresford TC-7520. My Lord. What a difference. It is much more easy to listen to at higher volume without any strain. Notes are richer, and it is easier to pick-out the musicians in the soundstage. Things sound effortless now, and must have been a bit strained/distorted with the standard cable.

Voodoo? I'll trust my own ears.

Cheapest darn upgrade yet for me.

YMMV.

Kurt

Spur07
22-03-2009, 20:19
alright lads,

I've never done any mods in my life, but this thread has got me interested in changing the op amps on my 7510. Is it literally pull out old amps and plug in new ones, and if so, how many will I need to get? Any picture guides knocking around? - bear in mind I have all the technical know-how of paris hilton, or that bird in flashdance!:scratch:


kbuech,

I'm not surprised regarding USB upgrade. when I recently upgraded my Mac the change from USB 1 to 2 bought huge rewards.

NRG
22-03-2009, 22:45
Unfortunately no. The 7510 opamp is surface mount and needs a good eye and steady hands with a soldering iron to replace it...

tizer2000uk
23-03-2009, 19:13
Don't bother unsoldering the opamp, the easiest way is to use a stanley knife. Press against each leg one at a time with the tip of the blade and the knife will cut straight through it, you dont need to use alot of pressure and it will beat the frustration of trying to remove it using the iron alone.

When it comes to soldering the new opamp in place give the following video a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qYG95bbz8

If you have the chance practice on an old unwanted circuit board to get comfortable.

If using solder feels too tricky, buy some solder paster and make light work of the job.

Covenant
23-03-2009, 21:58
Or sell the 7510 and buy a 7520!

Gazjam
24-03-2009, 18:50
Would THIS be a suitable OpAmp, there seems to be a couple of different types.
Thanks.

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=111 (an "NA" Type - is this suitable?)

And is it just a case of popping the two existing amps out and popping the LM4562's in their place?
IS it just these two amps to be replaced on the output board (I think) or is there more to it?

http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opamps.jpg

trailer
24-03-2009, 19:04
Would THIS be a suitable OpAmp, there seems to be a couple of different types.
Thanks.

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=111 (an "NA" Type - is this suitable?)

And is it just a case of popping the two existing amps out and popping the LM4562's in their place?
IS it just these two amps to be replaced on the output board (I think) or is there more to it?

http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opamps.jpg

Yes on both accounts.

sponge
24-03-2009, 19:09
OK, I have fitted the THS4032's and I must say they are the best opamp so far. Using with my K701's, the sound is smoother and more fluid than the standard NE5532P's and even tops the OPA2132, which I like very much. Detail is still there but never overstated which encourages you to keep listening on and on. Trouble is it also tempts you to crank up the volume!
Don't believe that some say the K701 is lacking in bass - The combination of 7520 DAC with THS4032's in the headamp brings out the bass perfectly to my ears.

Swapping to Senn HD600: Gosh! The power - No problem driving the Senn's here! The sound - Smoother than a smooth thing - Not quite the detail of the K701's but nothing is missed - This is a sweet conbination - I could listen to this all night, every night.

The THS4032's are definitely keepers - I don't know how I could improve on them - Unless you guys know otherwise...:)

Ken

Gazjam
24-03-2009, 19:28
Yes on both accounts.

Thanks Trailer!

StanleyB
24-03-2009, 19:58
The THS4032's are definitely keepers - I don't know how I could improve on them - Unless you guys know otherwise...:)
I don't know of a better opamp for either the TC-7520 or the TC-7510. The best soundstage, separation, and top & bottom. But these are not easy to get chips. i.e. you can't pick them up from eBay as far as I know.

trailer
24-03-2009, 21:03
I don't know of a better opamp for either the TC-7520 or the TC-7510. The best soundstage, separation, and top & bottom. But these are not easy to get chips. i.e. you can't pick them up from eBay as far as I know.

You can get them from RS for 4 each or so. It's the interface boards that seem to be harder to find.

StanleyB
24-03-2009, 21:15
You can get them from RS for 4 each or so. It's the interface boards that seem to be harder to find.
Luckily I can get the chips for free;). The boards can be bought from http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/tirna_electronics/

Stratmangler
24-03-2009, 21:15
Unfortunately no. The 7510 opamp is surface mount and needs a good eye and steady hands with a soldering iron to replace it...

You're not joking - I ordered 2 LM4562's to complete the mod21part2 on my 7510, just in case of a fryup or some other mishap, and managed to fix one of them to the board off angle, and ended up cutting the legs and winging it into the bin.

I also managed to disconnect (snap) some of the wires off on one end of the ribbon cables (yes, both of them) which stopped a couple of the inputs from being selectable. Thankfully both cables are now stripped back a few mm and resoldered, and all is now working properly. Note to self - don't be so bloody hamfisted in future !:doh:

I am more than pleased with the results though - music just "sounds right".
Music sounded good before the mods, but the whole mod21 thing has lifted my 7510 up into a different league.

Chris:champagne:

Stratmangler
24-03-2009, 21:19
The THS4032's are definitely keepers - I don't know how I could improve on them - Unless you guys know otherwise...:)

I'm not ripping my 7510 apart again to find this out how good they are, but I am definitely intrigued.

Chris:lolsign:

Covenant
24-03-2009, 21:36
You can get them from RS for 4 each or so. It's the interface boards that seem to be harder to find.

The picture on RS shows an op-amp without 'legs'. Is this what the interface board provides?

trailer
24-03-2009, 22:03
Luckily I can get the chips for free;). The boards can be bought from http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/tirna_electronics/

Excellent. Thanks

Getgaff
24-03-2009, 23:03
Stan's 7520 is only my second DAC having previously owned the 7510 Mk6/3 with MOD21.

Tweaking does appeal to me (wolf in sheep's clothing and all that) despite my complete and utter ignorance of all things electrical, so I largely rely on the expertise and experience of others.

For a measly 8.99, I swapped out the original 7520 opamps with the recommended LM4562NA at the weekend. While I can't (yet) claim to hear the same improvements as others (limited perhaps by my modest system/listening time/etc), I did notice a distinct improvement with bass control and timing.

Following on from other comments here on AoS, I've now ordered from the same Ebay seller a pair of LME49720HA opamps to try out. And shortly after ordering them I received the following email,

"Hi Gareth

Many thanks for the purchase – I’m sure you’ll be impressed with these opamps.
Everyone and his dog appears to be buying LM4562/LME498720 to upgrade their Beresfords! Even Stan himself bought some today ;)
Of course I can form them – I’ll try and do you some special ‘low profile’ versions although there is a limit as I need to be careful not to short any of the legs against the metal casing.
I’ll get them posted off tomorrow.
Please let me know that you have received them safely, and others know how good they are, by leaving feedback.

Cheers
Simon"

One question though, and with reference to my aforementioned ignorance, will the LME49720HA metal caps short if they come into contact with the DAC lid?

drumlins4ever
24-03-2009, 23:24
Luckily I can get the chips for free;). The boards can be bought from http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/tirna_electronics/

Thanks for the link but which type board would i use ?

Great thread by the way

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 03:07
You need the 8 pin SOIC to DIL boards.

rhmjmango
25-03-2009, 11:16
You need the 8 pin SOIC to DIL boards.

Is this the board i need to use the THS4032.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Surface-Mount-Converter-SOIC-8-JEDEC-NARROW-DIL-adapter_W0QQitemZ360138275698QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?hash=item36 0138275698&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

Some more questions
- Is it oke to change both standard opamps with the THS4032 or just one?

- I noticed that there are different types of the THS4032 that can be purchased. Do i need the THS4032CD or the THS4032ID? Seen on the site of Farnell.

- Has there any soldering to be done to mount the THS4032 on the board?

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 11:27
Hi,

This is my first post here. I was recommended this forum by Stan when I was looking for info on swapping the case of my 7520 for a silver one. That's something I may look into later. For now I'm interested in trying a few opamp's and also running my 7520 from a battery.

As the current theme is opamps I'll stick to that subject for now.

The THS4032 is also available from Farnell for 4.63. There are two models, the CD and the ID. The THS4032CD is the standard model with the THS4032ID being tolerant of a wider ambient temperature range and not really worth the extra cost.

I think this is the adapter that is required LINK (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Surface-Mount-Converter-SOIC-8-JEDEC-NARROW-DIL-adapter_W0QQitemZ360138275698QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?hash=item36 0138275698&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1121|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18). It looks like Farnell sell a similar product but it's over 4 times the price.

I have a couple of questions about this combination:

Should the adapter board be plugged into the existing IC socket or should the existing socket be removed and the new socket soldered in place?
Also, the THS4032 data sheet mentions that it should be heatsinked via it's underbelly to the ground plane. As the adapter board won't really allow this, are we likely to run into overheating problems?

Thanks.

sponge
25-03-2009, 11:34
Just a quick update following the THS4032 installation.
The paranoia factor got the better of me regarding decoupling caps. This was mentioned in the previous thread by Leo. So I decided to fit an additional 0.1uF ceramic across pins 4 and 8 of the opamp. It's not easy and I found the best way was to form the cap leads slightly and solder it directly to the chip pins lying the caps body on top of the chip.

However, the difference is well worth the effort - The sound is "cleaner", sharper and more dynamic.

If anyone is considering this opamp upgrade, I recommend fitting the decoupling caps from the start, believe me, you won't regret it.

For info, I got the THS4032's from Farnell at 4.63 GBP + VAT and the BrownDog adapers I already had from cimarrontechnology.com p/n 970601 at $2.39 + postage. Ceramic caps from pretty well anywhere - Dirt cheap.

Ken

sponge
25-03-2009, 11:44
Should the adapter board be plugged into the existing IC socket or should the existing socket be removed and the new socket soldered in place?
Also, the THS4032 data sheet mentions that it should be heatsinked via it's underbelly to the ground plane. As the adapter board won't really allow this, are we likely to run into overheating problems?

Thanks.

The adapter board plugs directly into the existing socket.

I have had the THS4032's running for quite a while now - they run warm but not hot - I would say overheating wont be a problem. Of course, if the chip is unstable, it will tend to get hotter.

Ken

trailer
25-03-2009, 14:15
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7397/picture018large.jpg

Well I've gone from the standard op-amps. Had the LM4562NA's in for a week or so now. Like I have said they were a big improvement over the standards.

Next step was to try out a pair of LME49720's and I've stuck them in this morning.

First impressions. The sound is a bit "leaner" and more "airier" than with the 4562's. I'll let them run in some more.

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 14:41
Looking great that:smoking:. I might need to copy that picture and put it on my site when I add a 'mod' page.
All you need now is a couple of post 1K competitors to burn out:eyebrows:.

STan

Covenant
25-03-2009, 15:08
Is this the board i need to use the THS4032.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Surface-Mount-Converter-SOIC-8-JEDEC-NARROW-DIL-adapter_W0QQitemZ360138275698QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?hash=item36 0138275698&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

Some more questions
- Is it oke to change both standard opamps with the THS4032 or just one?

- I noticed that there are different types of the THS4032 that can be purchased. Do i need the THS4032CD or the THS4032ID? Seen on the site of Farnell.

- Has there any soldering to be done to mount the THS4032 on the board?

Have a look at Ebay item 260351823827-I think its the one required.

chrism
25-03-2009, 15:10
Can the THS4032 be used in the 7510 6/4 model? It looks to be a surface mount type but not certain of the leg spacings.

Also not certain about the difference with the THS4031? Is it something to do with single / dual amplifiers - not sure which the 7510 needs?

Regards

Chris

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 15:11
Those metal encased opamps do look awesome, nice work!

Sponge mentioned that a 0.1uF ceramic between pins 4 and 8 make an improvement. Is this something that will improve all of these opamps? Also, would any different value or types of caps work better? A 0.22uF poly cap for example? Please excuse my ignorance, I'm new to this electronics lark. :)

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 15:23
Can the THS4032 be used in the 7510 6/4 model? It looks to be a surface mount type but not certain of the leg spacings.

Yep. You'll need to solder a 100nF decoupling cap between pin 4 and pin 8 as well. The same goes for the LM4562MA.

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 15:25
Those metal encased opamps do look awesome, nice work!

Sponge mentioned that a 0.1uF ceramic between pins 4 and 8 make an improvement. Is this something that will improve all of these opamps?
Yep.



Also, would any different value or types of caps work better? A 0.22uF poly cap for example?:)
Nope

rhmjmango
25-03-2009, 16:04
Just a quick update following the THS4032 installation.
The paranoia factor got the better of me regarding decoupling caps. This was mentioned in the previous thread by Leo. So I decided to fit an additional 0.1uF ceramic across pins 4 and 8 of the opamp. It's not easy and I found the best way was to form the cap leads slightly and solder it directly to the chip pins lying the caps body on top of the chip.

However, the difference is well worth the effort - The sound is "cleaner", sharper and more dynamic.

If anyone is considering this opamp upgrade, I recommend fitting the decoupling caps from the start, believe me, you won't regret it.

For info, I got the THS4032's from Farnell at 4.63 GBP + VAT and the BrownDog adapers I already had from cimarrontechnology.com p/n 970601 at $2.39 + postage. Ceramic caps from pretty well anywhere - Dirt cheap.

Ken
Would it be possible to show a pic of this mod?

drumlins4ever
25-03-2009, 16:05
Been trying out the LM4562NA for the past few days and i really like em.

An improvement on the stock chips, very wide soundstage , great separation between instruments and very smooth, everything just seems right with them and i'd be happy to live with em long term.

Popped in a pair of OPA2132PA this morning to try out.

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 16:11
Yep.


Nope

Thanks.

Just out of interest, how come the 100nF cap wasn't included in the 7520's original design if it helps all the opamps? :)

sponge
25-03-2009, 16:16
Would it be possible to show a pic of this mod?

I'll try - I've never posted a picture yet. Leave that with me...

Just a quick question for Stan - Have you tried mixing Opamps? I have at the moment an OPA2132 in the left socket and a THS4032 in the right hand socket (as viewed from front) - Sounds good to me - Both chips are running cool but it's only been powered up for about 30mins. I'm not going to damage anything am I?

Thanks - Ken

Spectral Morn
25-03-2009, 16:20
Thanks.

Just out of interest, how come the 100nF cap wasn't included in the 7520's original design if it helps all the opamps? :)

Hi HighFidelityGuy.


Welcome to AOS nice to see you getting stuck in. It would be really cool if you could pop into the Welcome section and say hi to everyone, and maybe you could tell us a little bit about yourself and the kit you use and what kind of music you like.

On AOS we love to see photos of the kit everyone is using, so if you can it would be great if you could pop some into the Gallery.

I am sure everyone can't wait to get to know you and enjoy your contributions.:)


Regards D S D L

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 16:43
Hi HighFidelityGuy.


Welcome to AOS nice to see you getting stuck in. It would be really cool if you could pop into the Welcome section and say hi to everyone, and maybe you could tell us a little bit about yourself and the kit you use and what kind of music you like.

On AOS we love to see photos of the kit everyone is using, so if you can it would be great if you could pop some into the Gallery.

I am sure everyone can't wait to get to know you and enjoy your contributions.:)


Regards D S D L

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome. I'll dig out my camera and see what I can do. :)

Thanks.

sponge
25-03-2009, 17:26
Would it be possible to show a pic of this mod?

OK, here goes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3384769693_771e61ee3e_m.jpg

Sorry about the photo quality.
Here is the mounted and modded chip installed in the DAC.

Ken

rhmjmango
25-03-2009, 18:21
OK, here goes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3384769693_771e61ee3e_m.jpg

Sorry about the photo quality.
Here is the mounted and modded chip installed in the DAC.

Ken

:)Nice! Thanks. This makes the mod. more clear to me.
I am not that much into electronics so i was wondering what does this cap do technically? (apart of enhancing the sound quality)
By the way, did you do this mod on both op-amps?

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 18:27
Just out of interest, how come the 100nF cap wasn't included in the 7520's original design if it helps all the opamps? :)There is. It's the one marked MLC10 in the picture posted by Ken:). But the specs recommend that the 100nF is as close as possible to pin 4 and 8. So that's what the '0.1mF mod' is all about;). You are adding a 100nF as close as possible to pins 4 and 8. The one on the main PCB is not close enough once you start adding an adapter PCB. The distance from say pin 4 on the surface mount IC and the appropriate leg on MLC10 is now several mm longer. And that extra track increase is suddenly an obstacle/nice short length of RF aerial. Putting an extra cap in circuit and closer to the chip even things out again.

STan

chrism
25-03-2009, 18:46
Thanks Stan,

Just about to order a THS4032 from RS and not certain about the 100nK decouling cap spec. Is there a specific one that I should go for.

Should I order anything else for the 7510 6/4 whilst I am at it and have the lid off? (easy mods only though as I am a beginner).

Regards

Chris

sponge
25-03-2009, 18:52
:)
I am not that much into electronics so i was wondering what does this cap do technically? (apart of enhancing the sound quality)
By the way, did you do this mod on both op-amps?

At the basic level the cap(s) remove any unwanted noise, spikes etc from the power rails - And yes, the mod is done on both chips.

sponge
25-03-2009, 18:59
not certain about the 100nK decouling cap spec. Is there a specific one that I should go for.

Chris

The ones I used I had in my spares box - They were originally from Digi-Key part number 399-4328-ND. There are plenty others that would do the job though.

Ken

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 19:02
Thanks Stan,

Just about to order a THS4032 from RS and not certain about the 100nK decouling cap spec. Is there a specific one that I should go for.

Should I order anything else for the 7510 6/4 whilst I am at it and have the lid off? (easy mods only though as I am a beginner).

It's 100nF ceramic.

If you are a beginner I wouldn't try changing the opamp in the 7510. A few beginners have ran into troubles:(.

rhmjmango
25-03-2009, 19:05
Talking about a 0.1uF ceramic cap. I do not know what to look for on the farnell website. Can anybody help me out? Thanks!

chrism
25-03-2009, 19:07
Hi Stan,

Beginner but handy with the old iron so happy to have ago. If I wreck it it will give me a good excuse to buy a 7520 ;)

Regards

Chris

rhmjmango
25-03-2009, 19:10
Getting warm!
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=399-4328-ND

leo
25-03-2009, 19:12
A few beginners have ran into troubles:(.


Yes, its easy to end up with a knackered dac

sponge
25-03-2009, 19:16
Talking about a 0.1uF ceramic cap. I do not know what to look for on the farnell website. Can anybody help me out? Thanks!

Try part no 114-1775 from Farnell - Good quality Vishay cap at 35p for 5 :)

Ken

chrism
25-03-2009, 19:20
Am I right in thinking that Farnell is 20.00 min order or am I reading the small print wrongly. RS online does not appear to have this though.

Regards

Chris

leo
25-03-2009, 19:21
OK, here goes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3384769693_771e61ee3e_m.jpg

Sorry about the photo quality.
Here is the mounted and modded chip installed in the DAC.

Ken


Nicely done there Ken! should help prevent any issues

leo
25-03-2009, 19:24
One thing to remember if others are fitting the ceramics, don't over heat or sharply bend the legs, these caps are pretty fragile

drumlins4ever
25-03-2009, 19:39
As an idea
I think it may be interesting after a month or so when everyone has become acquainted with the various opamps to run a favorites poll.

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 19:41
There is. It's the one marked MLC10 in the picture posted by Ken:). But the specs recommend that the 100nF is as close as possible to pin 4 and 8. So that's what the '0.1mF mod' is all about;). You are adding a 100nF as close as possible to pins 4 and 8. The one on the main PCB is not close enough once you start adding an adapter PCB. The distance from say pin 4 on the surface mount IC and the appropriate leg on MLC10 is now several mm longer. And that extra track increase is suddenly an obstacle/nice short length of RF aerial. Putting an extra cap in circuit and closer to the chip even things out again.

STan

Thanks for taking the time to explain that so thoroughly, it's really helped me understand what the cap is for. :)

sponge
25-03-2009, 19:46
Am I right in thinking that Farnell is 20.00 min order or am I reading the small print wrongly. RS online does not appear to have this though.

Regards

Chris

You are probably right at that - Welcome to the world of DIY electronics! ;)

Ken

Covenant
25-03-2009, 19:54
Any one fancy a group buy for the THS4032 as its a minimum 20 order?

Getgaff
25-03-2009, 19:58
Am I right in thinking that Farnell is 20.00 min order or am I reading the small print wrongly
No minimum order for me - just ordered 5 x 114-1775 for 2.07 inc vat and delivery.

Getgaff
25-03-2009, 20:00
Try part no 114-1775 from Farnell - Good quality Vishay cap at 35p for 5
0.36p each - minimum order of 5.

sponge
25-03-2009, 20:11
0.36p each - minimum order of 5.

Ooops, sorry - I'm going to have to start wearing these specs!!

Ken

fault151
25-03-2009, 20:13
Guys anyone have a link to buy a LME4970HA op amp,i looked on ebay buy said nothing available.

freddiecas
25-03-2009, 20:29
if you already have a LM4562 in your 7510 6/4 Mod 21 part 2 is it worth changing it for a THS4032?

Getgaff
25-03-2009, 20:32
Guys anyone have a link to buy a LME4970HA op amp,i looked on ebay buy said nothing available.

This the seller I used,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=110361929525&Category=3272

leo
25-03-2009, 20:32
Guys anyone have a link to buy a LME4970HA op amp,i looked on ebay buy said nothing available.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LME49720HA-OPAMP-LME49720-LM4562-LM4562HA_W0QQitemZ110361929525QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparat es?hash=item110361929525&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

leo
25-03-2009, 20:33
Snap:lol:

Getgaff
25-03-2009, 20:37
:doh:

HighFidelityGuy
25-03-2009, 20:56
Ah I was wondering why I couldn't find any info on the LME4970HA, it's actually the LM4562HA, how odd. :scratch:

They're 20.30 from Farnell, so that ebay source is nearly 50% cheaper. Nice find!

kalozois100
25-03-2009, 21:48
if you already have a LM4562 in your 7510 6/4 Mod 21 part 2 is it worth changing it for a THS4032?

This is definately a question i would like answered too as i also have the above mods you mention in the 7510..........yeah is it worth it or not? :confused: The LM4562MA already seems a very good performer.

StanleyB
25-03-2009, 22:08
This is definately a question i would like answered too as i also have the above mods you mention in the 7510..........yeah is it worth it or not? :confused: The LM4562MA already seems a very good performer.
The THS4032 is far more of a performer in the TC-7520. I wouldn't advise carrying out any more surgery on the PCB through a repeat removal of the TC-7510 opamp. Disaster possibilities such as track damage are higher than 66.6%. On a fresh PCB you stand a better chance of success.

HighFidelityGuy
26-03-2009, 11:33
I've just ordered a pair of LME4970HA's and some of the adapter boards needed for the THS4032. I'll be ordering the THS4032 form Farnell at a later date along with some other bits I need for other projects I'm working on. I'll let you all know what I think to them.

sponge
26-03-2009, 11:53
Oh no - I seem to have a problem. :(

Last night the TC-7520 headphone amp with THS4032's was playing fine, so I replaced the cover and left the unit playing with a looped CD into my K701's.

This morning when I had a listen, I hear a VERY faint "crackle" on quiet passages - Only when music is playing and not noticeable on louder passages. It's not the source as the same thing happens when playing the same track via CD (optical) or Squeezebox (coax).

I suspect a bit of instability with the THS4032's - But which one?

Perhaps Stan can help here - I am aware the 4032 is not unity gain stable so maybe this cannot be fixed if one of the opamps is acting as a buffer. Pity really as I love the THS4032 sound signature.

Have any of you guys trying the THS4032 noticed anything similar?

Ken

kalozois100
26-03-2009, 12:14
The THS4032 is far more of a performer in the TC-7520. I wouldn't advise carrying out any more surgery on the PCB through a repeat removal of the TC-7510 opamp. Disaster possibilities such as track damage are higher than 66.6%. On a fresh PCB you stand a better chance of success.

Statistics always get my attention Stan!! - and i hadn't realised the risk for repeated opamp changes although i am kicking myself I didn't install an adapter for opamp rolling for the 7510 at the time of changing the opamp . Still it sounds very good as it is so i am thankfull the mods went well with no side effects. one suggestion for 7520 owners is how much i like the audio signature of the black gate caps in the mods for the 7510 that the LM4562MA drive. Is this feasible for the 7520 aswell??

HighFidelityGuy
26-03-2009, 12:50
Oh no - I seem to have a problem. :(

Last night the TC-7520 headphone amp with THS4032's was playing fine, so I replaced the cover and left the unit playing with a looped CD into my K701's.

This morning when I had a listen, I hear a VERY faint "crackle" on quiet passages - Only when music is playing and not noticeable on louder passages. It's not the source as the same thing happens when playing the same track via CD (optical) or Squeezebox (coax).

I suspect a bit of instability with the THS4032's - But which one?

Perhaps Stan can help here - I am aware the 4032 is not unity gain stable so maybe this cannot be fixed if one of the opamps is acting as a buffer. Pity really as I love the THS4032 sound signature.

Have any of you guys trying the THS4032 noticed anything similar?

Ken

Hmm, that's a bit worrying. Perhaps they are over heating? Would it be possible for you to check how hot they are and report back?

sponge
26-03-2009, 13:06
Hmm, that's a bit worrying. Perhaps they are over heating? Would it be possible for you to check how hot they are and report back?

Well, I have the cover off the TC-7520 at the moment and the chips are well within their temp range - Only warm to the touch and the unit has been powered up for quite a while.

This is so annoying as the sound (to my ears) is superb - It drives the K701's effortlessly.

Ken

Covenant
26-03-2009, 13:44
Could you swap back the old op-amps just to make sure its not something else?

HighFidelityGuy
26-03-2009, 13:58
Thanks for the update.

I've just been comparing the THS4032 with the original NE5532 and I noticed that the NE5532 needs up to +/- 22V while the THS4032 only needs up to +/- 16V. I don't know if this has anything to do with it. I guess it depends on what voltage the 7520 is giving the chip. I guess Stan is the best person to answer this. Any idea what's causing this Stan?

sponge
26-03-2009, 13:59
Could you swap back the old op-amps just to make sure its not something else?

Yep, tried that already - Problem goes away with the original 5532's.

Just noticed something else - When the Squeezebox changes tracks, I hear a slight "click" in the phones - This didn't happen with the 5532's.

sponge
26-03-2009, 14:08
Thanks for the update.

I've just been comparing the THS4032 with the original NE5532 and I noticed that the NE5532 needs up to +/- 22V while the THS4032 only needs up to +/- 16V. I don't know if this has anything to do with it. I guess it depends on what voltage the 7520 is giving the chip. I guess Stan is the best person to answer this. Any idea what's causing this Stan?

Those voltages are the maximum - The minimum working voltage is considerably less - 10V (+/- 5V) for the THS4032 for example.

Ken

trailer
26-03-2009, 17:55
Well I've had the LM49720's in for a day now. Took a bit to get them running I think. More so than the 4562's and I suspect they might not be fully ran in yet.

Compared to the 4562's they are more revealing of the recording. More clinical I would say. Some recordings I think "much better", then others are a bit "erm, OK". Like I said I think this might be due to the revealing nature of the 49720's and the quality (or lack of) of the recording.

I'm going to persevere. (And I might get some 4032's :cool: )

rhmjmango
26-03-2009, 19:00
Some people on the web like the LME49860 very much so i had a look at the catalog of National.

http://www.national.com/cat/index.cgi?i=i//305

I wonder if the specs. of this opamp make it possible to use in the 7520.
Can anybody comment on this opamp?

Oke i've found the answer, i read they have the same quality specs as the the LM4562! Just higher voltage loads.

HighFidelityGuy
26-03-2009, 20:02
Some people on the web like the LME49860 very much so i had a look at the catalog of National.

http://www.national.com/cat/index.cgi?i=i//305

I wonder if the specs. of this opamp make it possible to use in the 7520.
Can anybody comment on this opamp?

Oke i've found the answer, i read they have the same quality specs as the the LM4562! Just higher voltage loads.

It appears to be pin compatible so I think it should work. The LME49860NA version would be the one to go for as it's the right package type.

Farnell sell it HERE (http://uk.farnell.com/national-semiconductor/lme49860na/op-amp-hifi-audio-dual-44v-dip/dp/1433173)

The specs seem almost the same as the LM4562 and the LME49720 but the LME49860 has a higher max voltage rating.

Stratmangler
26-03-2009, 23:53
I am more than pleased with the results though - music just "sounds right".
Music sounded good before the mods, but the whole mod21 thing has lifted my 7510 up into a different league.

I should have learned by now to keep my mouth shut by now - I keep on forgetting (sign of stupidity, maybe ?) - but I keep getting caught out by the running in period required by components.

I've had the 7510 with the recently done Mod21 stage2 upgrades running for 48 hours or so, and the sound has gone from brilliant to ok, defined to grungy, generally great to good to passable to poor, and back again, sometimes within the space of an hour.

As I am typing things sound fantastic, but I am expecting a change for the worst before things eventually stablise and bed in.

Here's hoping for stabilisation sooner, rather than later:cool:

Chris:)

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 09:50
Just a little confused from trying to combine all the info on the THS4032's - in order to use these you need an adaptor board but do you also have to solder in an additional cap?

Cheers
Dan

tizer2000uk
27-03-2009, 10:00
I have noticed clicks and pops on various tracks with the LM4562's (MP3's) With lossless files I dont have any problems. I think any anomalies on tracks might be due to them being bad recordings and the LM4562's ability to dig up alot of detail.

trailer
27-03-2009, 10:01
Just a little confused from trying to combine all the info on the THS4032's - in order to use these you need an adaptor board but do you also have to solder in an additional cap?

Cheers
Dan

Aye.

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 10:04
Cheers Trailer much appreciated.

Think I might start with giving some LM4562's a go and see how I get on from there:)

Cheers
Dan

trailer
27-03-2009, 10:23
Cheers Trailer much appreciated.

Think I might start with giving some LM4562's a go and see how I get on from there:)

Cheers
Dan

No problem. Make sure you get the LM4562NA.

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/yp53_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 10:26
Will do, Cheers!:)

chrism
27-03-2009, 15:27
LM4562NA for the 7520 and LM4562MA for the 7510 - just to be clear.

Any news on the problem reported with the THS4032 - I am waiting to buy one.

Regards

sponge
27-03-2009, 16:01
Any news on the problem reported with the THS4032 - I am waiting to buy one.

Regards

I's still awaiting some feedback on the problem - I am living with it at the moment as the sound is so good, but it niggles and is a bit distracting.:(

Ken

trailer
27-03-2009, 16:04
Have you both got the Pin4/8 cap fitted?

sponge
27-03-2009, 16:07
Have you both got the Pin4/8 cap fitted?

Yes - See post #43.

trailer
27-03-2009, 16:14
Ok, I'm getting some 4032's next week.

I've been listening to the 49720's again this afternoon. That's 48 hours in the 7520 now.

Firstly things seemed to have changed for the better. A definite improvement on the 4562's. Bass is deeper and there is much more detail and clarity of individual instruments. Not quite as big a soundstage but I'm being picky on that one.

Covenant
27-03-2009, 16:18
Just a suggestion (and I know nothing about electronics)-could you get hold of another THS4032 and try it without the capacitor. That would tell you if its been damaged by heat when soldering or possibly a dry joint is causing the crackling.

sponge
27-03-2009, 16:56
Just a suggestion (and I know nothing about electronics)-could you get hold of another THS4032 and try it without the capacitor. That would tell you if its been damaged by heat when soldering or possibly a dry joint is causing the crackling.

OK, that's a thought - I have a spare chip and some BrownDogs - I'll give it a try. As a matter of fact, if I swap the two opamps around, the crackling gets a little worse, which could suggest one of them is a bit iffy.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll keep you posted.

Ken

rhmjmango
27-03-2009, 17:04
I will also roll in a LME49720HA to find out the difference with the LM4562HA.

I saw this seller on ebay.
'We recommend using Black Gate (or similar) capacitors on the power rails for these opamps'.
I wonder if he means connecting pin 4 and 8 with the fore mentioned cap.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LME49720HA-LM4562HA-TO-99-AUDIOPHILE-OPAMP-PAIR_W0QQitemZ280312407075QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Au dioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparates?h ash=item280312407075&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 17:08
I guess the cutting down process should be relatively straight forward with some wire cutters etc so you can get them into the case of the 7520?

trailer
27-03-2009, 17:20
I will also roll in a LME49720HA to find out the difference with the LM4562HA.

I saw this seller on ebay.
'We recommend using Black Gate (or similar) capacitors on the power rails for these opamps'.
I wonder if he means connecting pin 4 and 8 with the fore mentioned cap.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LME49720HA-LM4562HA-TO-99-AUDIOPHILE-OPAMP-PAIR_W0QQitemZ280312407075QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Au dioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparates?h ash=item280312407075&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18
Have a look here:

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/yp53

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 17:44
You should be on commission Trailer, just ordered a pair of 49720's for 12.49 shipped and have asked the seller to trim them down for me as he says he will do in the ad:)

trailer
27-03-2009, 18:04
You should be on commission Trailer

I wish!

rhmjmango
27-03-2009, 18:24
You should be on commission Trailer, just ordered a pair of 49720's for 12.49 shipped and have asked the seller to trim them down for me as he says he will do in the ad:)

You ordered the metal HA version right? Then the price is not right for a pair of these opamps. Am i right!:scratch:

trailer
27-03-2009, 18:26
You ordered the metal HA version right? Then the price is not right for a pair of these opamps. Am i right!:scratch:

Aye that's right. That's the price for one.

rhmjmango
27-03-2009, 18:29
Have a look here:

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/yp53

I know, i ordered one. What confuses me is their advice.

*We recommend using Black Gate (or similar) capacitors on the power rails for these opamps.

Who can comment on this recommendation?

mwahahaha
27-03-2009, 18:37
You ordered the metal HA version right? Then the price is not right for a pair of these opamps. Am i right!:scratch:

Sorry yes I meant I bought them for 12.49 each - worded that one very badly:doh:

sponge
27-03-2009, 18:50
The story so far:

I have replaced one of the THS4032's with a spare and all seems to be OK at the moment. I have not (as yet) fitted a decoupling cap - I'll see how it goes after a burn-in. Perhaps the chips are very picky and i've just fitted a good 'un.

I really do like the sound of there opamps with the K701's - They do very little wrong - Everything is there and in full control - Superb!

Ken

rhmjmango
27-03-2009, 22:46
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7397/picture018large.jpg

Well I've gone from the standard op-amps. Had the LM4562NA's in for a week or so now. Like I have said they were a big improvement over the standards.

Next step was to try out a pair of LME49720's and I've stuck them in this morning.

First impressions. The sound is a bit "leaner" and more "airier" than with the 4562's. I'll let them run in some more.

Trailer, which op-amp is for the headphone, left or right one i the picture?

StanleyB
27-03-2009, 23:30
The right one.

STan

sponge
28-03-2009, 12:43
Well, the replacement THS4032 has been running for a good few hours now and there's no sign of the previous "crackling" problem. I think if the problem still existed it would have shown itself by now.

I say it again - This is a superb opamp - It works really well with the K701's and the sound is just to my liking, plenty detail, punchy and a huge soundstage.

The moral is: If you want to try the THS4032, get one or two spares just in case of problems with stability.

BTW guys - What headphones are using with your opamp experiments?

Cheers - Ken

rhmjmango
28-03-2009, 12:56
Alessandro's MS1 modified to MS1000

leo
28-03-2009, 13:01
too much heat when soldering SMD op-amps can cause some internal damage.
It does not take a lot for those tiny legs to heat up

sponge
28-03-2009, 13:08
too much heat when soldering SMD op-amps can cause some internal damage.
It does not take a lot for those tiny legs to heat up

Thats true Leo - It's likely to have been when I was soldering the decoupling cap - I did get a blob on one of the legs which needed cleaning off...

Covenant
28-03-2009, 14:51
Well, the replacement THS4032 has been running for a good few hours now and there's no sign of the previous "crackling" problem. I think if the problem still existed it would have shown itself by now.

I say it again - This is a superb opamp - It works really well with the K701's and the sound is just to my liking, plenty detail, punchy and a huge soundstage.

The moral is: If you want to try the THS4032, get one or two spares just in case of problems with stability.

BTW guys - What headphones are using with your opamp experiments?

Cheers - Ken
So, with a bit of luck, it may not be necessary to add the cap which makes the whole exercise more appealing!

FireFly
28-03-2009, 15:09
OK, I am warming up :lolsign:

What is difference between 7510 and 7520 models?

For op-amp rolling check link bellow. I agree 110% with this.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/little-dot-mk1-opamp-rolling-304261/

Sign-up at www.linear.com and ask for some free samples :eyebrows:
LT1364 is good choice, way better than LM4562.

sponge
28-03-2009, 15:15
So, with a bit of luck, it may not be necessary to add the cap which makes the whole exercise more appealing!

I think it's a "suck it and see" thing. It's no problem to try it without the caps and fit them if needed - Just be warned that too much heat can cause trouble. As I said, the problem I had was probably due to spending too much time cleaning up a solder blob when I was fitting a cap.

mwahahaha
28-03-2009, 15:25
So, with a bit of luck, it may not be necessary to add the cap which makes the whole exercise more appealing!

Definitely - Stan what are your feelings on the additional cap?

I take it without the cap the overheating risk is higher?

Covenant
28-03-2009, 15:28
This is fascinating....
So we have a new kid on the block, the LT1364.

One of the mods or Stan should tell us if its suitable-some details:
GBP 70MHz
Slew-Rate 1000V/μs
Supply Voltage 2.5 → 15V
Package SOIC8
CMRR 76dB
Function Unity-gain stable, voltage-feedback
Operating Temperature Range -40 → +85C
Settling time ns to % 50 → 0.1
V Offset mV 1.5

Avilable from RS for about 5 each.

StanleyB
28-03-2009, 18:00
Definitely - Stan what are your feelings on the additional cap?
It's a must.

StanleyB
28-03-2009, 18:08
So we have a new kid on the block, the LT1364.

One of the mods or Stan should tell us if its suitable-some details:
GBP 70MHz
Slew-Rate 1000V/μs
Supply Voltage 2.5 → 15V
Package SOIC8
CMRR 76dB
Function Unity-gain stable, voltage-feedback
Operating Temperature Range -40 → +85C
Settling time ns to % 50 → 0.1
V Offset mV 1.5


The THS4032 has a V offset of 0.5mV and a CMRR of 100dB

mwahahaha
29-03-2009, 10:50
It's a must.

Thanks Stan, do you fancy adding an accessory to your online store of the opamp, adaptor board and soldered cap?;)

Also how's that power supply getting along - weren't you testing a sample a while back?

apmusson
29-03-2009, 13:46
Thanks Stan, do you fancy adding an accessory to your online store of the opamp, adaptor board and soldered cap?;)

Also how's that power supply getting along - weren't you testing a sample a while back?

I'd be up for that too.

apmusson
29-03-2009, 14:26
Thanks Stan, do you fancy adding an accessory to your online store of the opamp, adaptor board and soldered cap?;)

Also how's that power supply getting along - weren't you testing a sample a while back?

Id be up for the THS4032 / board / cap combo I meant.

Covenant
29-03-2009, 16:42
So what about this one Stan?
The OPA2111KP available from Farnell at about 15 and looks like it doesnt need the interface which is putting me off a bit:

OP AMP, DUAL, LOW NOISE
Amplifiers, No. of:2
Gain, Bandwidth -3dB:2MHz
Slew Rate:2V/s
Voltage, Supply Min:10V
Voltage, Supply Max:36V
Case Style:PDIP
Pins, No. of:8
Temperature, Operating Range:-40C to +85C
Bandwidth, Gain:2MHz
Base Number:2111
Current, Iqc Max:9mA
Temp, Op. Max:70C
Temp, Op. Min:0C
Time, Settling:10s
Voltage, Input Offset Max:5mV
Voltage, Supply +Nom:18V

Any problem just fitting one?

trailer
29-03-2009, 16:46
So what about this one Stan?
The OPA2111KP available from Farnell at about 15 and looks like it doesnt need the interface which is putting me off a bit:

OP AMP, DUAL, LOW NOISE
Amplifiers, No. of:2
Gain, Bandwidth -3dB:2MHz
Slew Rate:2V/s
Voltage, Supply Min:10V
Voltage, Supply Max:36V
Case Style:PDIP
Pins, No. of:8
Temperature, Operating Range:-40C to +85C
Bandwidth, Gain:2MHz
Base Number:2111
Current, Iqc Max:9mA
Temp, Op. Max:70C
Temp, Op. Min:0C
Time, Settling:10s
Voltage, Input Offset Max:5mV
Voltage, Supply +Nom:18V

Any problem just fitting one?

Have you tried the LME49720 yet?

Covenant
29-03-2009, 17:09
Not yet Trailer, the only one I have tried up to now is the 4562 which sounds great in my system. I am tempted to buy one of each as its unlikely I will use headphones much.

trailer
29-03-2009, 17:19
It seemed to take a while for the 49720's to run in but I definitely prefer them now to the 4562's.

I've got some 4032's coming in the next day or two so I'll let you know how I get on with them too.

Covenant
29-03-2009, 17:34
Great-I wish they gave them names rather than numbers-I have to read back on the thread to remember which one is which.
A sticky with a list of them and peoples opinion would be very useful.

FireFly
29-03-2009, 17:58
The THS4032 has a V offset of 0.5mV and a CMRR of 100dB

You can also compare THS4032 vs. LT1469.
CMRR of 100 dB vs. 112 dB
Or compare PSRR, or....

I am not listening to datasheets, I am only reading datasheets :lol:
But I am listening to music, not datasheets.
I don't like op-amps at all :lol: Not LT, not OPAs, not LM, not.....

Ordered TC-7520 today from you :eyebrows:

Rather give some more details about power supply, PSRR figures and DAC chip used to turn me on and to prepare me on wild orgy with TC-7520 :smoking:

leo
29-03-2009, 18:10
I've ordered both of those LT devices to try in the differential to line out of my Sabre dac

I'll have to keep an eye on the DC offset though because I don't use any coupling caps

apmusson
30-03-2009, 11:14
I've ordered a pair of LM4562s on ebay after the good reports. I'd also like to test the THS4032s, but can't face learning getting a soldering iron and learning how to solder..

trailer
30-03-2009, 11:32
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Tirna-Electronics-Ltd__W0QQ_armrsZ1

This guy will do the soldering for you if you send him down the op-amps.

StanleyB
30-03-2009, 13:12
Rather give some more details about power supply, PSRR figures and DAC chip used to turn me on and to prepare me on wild orgy with TC-7520 :smoking:
In that case you gonna hate the TC-7520. It is not a trend follower of component specs. Even your high quality digital music files might sound analogue from a time when vinyl was king, instead of sounding like high quality digital audio files. You might even get to like USB audio, which is not a smart thing to repeat amongst audiophiles with expensive CD players...

Stan

FireFly
30-03-2009, 19:09
Stan, don't worry, I don't judge anything just by technical specifications. It is just curiosity.

I have bad habbit to rip apart & exchange parts in my audio gear after few days of listening. And it is very easy to work if schematic is available :)

chebby
30-03-2009, 20:20
I have had the TC-7520 for a couple of months now and it sounds superb. Very pleased. Thanks Stanley.

I use it with optical connected to a Panasonic DMR-EX78 DVD/HDD/Freeview recorder for DVD and TV sound and for Freeview radio, and have the USB connected to a laptop system for iTunes (lossless & 256k AAC) plus internet radio, BBC iPlayer youtube etc. All the usual settings on Windows/iTunes/Quicktime etc optimised according to my 'bible' on such matters, Benchmark Media Wiki.

I read with interest about the suggested LM4562NA upgrade and have invested my 7.49 today.

I am not at all skilled with soldering iron but I can cope with slotting two opamps into 8 pin adaptors! (I did the same on an old Firestone Audio Fubar II USB/Supplier set-up with a Burr Brown OPA2107AP and it sounded great afterwards.)

I already love the 'class-A' type sound of the TC7520. Smooth, detailed and spacious and 'forgettable' (in the nicest sense :) of course).

I has been suggested to me (on another hifi forum) that the LM4562NA op-amp upgrade will make the soundstage even bigger and provide more detail. I hope this is not at the expense of what I like about it already. I don't want to start 'hearing' it.

Looking forward to them being being delivered in the next few days.

I have also been advised to give the LM4562NA's up to 100 hours to 'run-in'. I don't normally give any credence to anything non-mechanical having a 'run-in' period so would like to hear from you on this matter. (I am prepared to have my mind changed.)

Oh yes....

Hello everyone. I am new here.

apmusson
30-03-2009, 21:04
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Tirna-Electronics-Ltd__W0QQ_armrsZ1

This guy will do the soldering for you if you send him down the op-amps.

He has done the whole thing for me. Ordered the THS4032CD opamps, supplied the caps and SOIC to DIL boards and soldered it together. Total cost inc p&p = 19.70.

Will let you know how it works out when I get it.

Ade

trailer
30-03-2009, 21:11
Excellent. It'll be interesting to hear others findings sound wise with different op-amps.

Covenant
30-03-2009, 21:24
I have had the TC-7520 for a couple of months now and it sounds superb. Very pleased. Thanks Stanley.

I use it with optical connected to a Panasonic DMR-EX78 DVD/HDD/Freeview recorder for DVD and TV sound and for Freeview radio, and have the USB connected to a laptop system for iTunes (lossless & 256k AAC) plus internet radio, BBC iPlayer youtube etc. All the usual settings on Windows/iTunes/Quicktime etc optimised according to my 'bible' on such matters, Benchmark Media Wiki.

I read with interest about the suggested LM4562NA upgrade and have invested my 7.49 today.

I am not at all skilled with soldering iron but I can cope with slotting two opamps into 8 pin adaptors! (I did the same on an old Firestone Audio Fubar II USB/Supplier set-up with a Burr Brown OPA2107AP and it sounded great afterwards.)

I already love the 'class-A' type sound of the TC7520. Smooth, detailed and spacious and 'forgettable' (in the nicest sense :) of course).

I has been suggested to me (on another hifi forum) that the LM4562NA op-amp upgrade will make the soundstage even bigger and provide more detail. I hope this is not at the expense of what I like about it already. I don't want to start 'hearing' it.

Looking forward to them being being delivered in the next few days.

I have also been advised to give the LM4562NA's up to 100 hours to 'run-in'. I don't normally give any credence to anything non-mechanical having a 'run-in' period so would like to hear from you on this matter. (I am prepared to have my mind changed.)

Oh yes....

Hello everyone. I am new here.
Personally I dont think much running in is required for op-amps, its capacitors that bed in after a period. Welcome by the way!

StanleyB
30-03-2009, 21:43
The LM4562NA for the 1st IC and the THS4032 for the 2nd seems a good combination on my rig. I might mod my personal unit with a WM8716 and a few minor tweaks I have had in mind but just can't find the time to try out.

Stan

Covenant
31-03-2009, 07:18
Farnell has a WM8716 on its site but its got 24 pins-not that one surely?

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 08:00
Nope. You need the 28 pin version.

sponge
31-03-2009, 08:09
Farnell has a WM8716 on its site but its got 24 pins-not that one surely?

It's a Wolfson DAC - I assume Stan plans to replace IC2 - The PCM1716E. An interesting mod - I for one look forward to Stan's verdict on the swap.

Also interesting is Stan's suggestion of a LM4562NA in the 1st opamp socket. Just by coincidence, I have a couple on order (I wanted to see what all the fuss was about) - So I'll give it a try.

Ken

Covenant
31-03-2009, 08:19
I have just ordered one LME49720HA. That should satisfy my op-amp curiosity for a week or so!

Gazjam
31-03-2009, 08:24
It's a Wolfson DAC - I assume Stan plans to replace IC2 - The PCM1716E. An interesting mod - I for one look forward to Stan's verdict on the swap.

Also interesting is Stan's suggestion of a LM4562NA in the 1st opamp socket. Just by coincidence, I have a couple on order (I wanted to see what all the fuss was about) - So I'll give it a try.

Ken
The first op amp socket and the second....

Which one does what?

I take it the first (the LM4562 one) is for the main Dac Output and the second is the eq phones one?
I.e best to use Lm4562 for the main Dac output?

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 09:10
It's a Wolfson DAC - I assume Stan plans to replace IC2 - The PCM1716E. An interesting mod - I for one look forward to Stan's verdict on the swap.

I did it on a TC-7510, but the TC-7510 PCB needs a few other mods before it works properly. I have done it on one early TC-7520 but abandoned the use of the WM8716 in the production version for cost reason. It would have added about 10 to the price of the TC-7520 from the factory floor to the end-user.

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 09:13
The first op amp socket and the second....

Which one does what?

I take it the first (the LM4562 one) is for the main Dac Output and the second is the eq phones one?
I.e best to use Lm4562 for the main Dac output?
The one above the headphone socket is the line output opamp. The one above the volume control is the headphone opamp.

Experiment and see which opamp combination sounds more pleasant. Since I mentioned the THS4032 a lot of people have tried that.

trailer
31-03-2009, 09:29
I did it on a TC-7510, but the TC-7510 PCB needs a few other mods before it works properly. I have done it on one early TC-7520 but abandoned the use of the WM8716 in the production version for cost reason. It would have added about 10 to the price of the TC-7520 from the factory floor to the end-user.

Is the WM8716 a straight swap (ie no further mods) in the 7520 Stan?

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 10:05
Is the WM8716 a straight swap (ie no further mods) in the 7520 Stan?
It's a direct replacement. If the U$ had been 2 to the it would have been used in the TC-7520.

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 10:09
It's a direct replacement. If the U$ had been 2 to the it would have been used in the TC-7520.

What improvements to the sound quality does the WM8716 make?

rhmjmango
31-03-2009, 10:10
Originally Posted by Covenant http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=39583#post39583)
So we have a new kid on the block, the LT1364.

One of the mods or Stan should tell us if its suitable-some details:
GBP 70MHz
Slew-Rate 1000V/μs
Supply Voltage 2.5 → 15V
Package SOIC8
CMRR 76dB
Function Unity-gain stable, voltage-feedback
Operating Temperature Range -40 → +85C
Settling time ns to % 50 → 0.1
V Offset mV 1.5


The THS4032 has a V offset of 0.5mV and a CMRR of 100dB

So what are you saying Stan.:scratch: Do you expect problems using this opamp in the TC-7520? Should i give it a try?

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 10:17
What improvements to the sound quality does the WM8716 make?
None I can think of. But a lot of people want the latest DAC chip before they part with their money;).

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 10:19
Originally Posted by Covenant http://theartofsound.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=39583#post39583)
So we have a new kid on the block, the LT1364.

One of the mods or Stan should tell us if its suitable-some details:
GBP 70MHz
Slew-Rate 1000V/μs
Supply Voltage 2.5 → 15V
Package SOIC8
CMRR 76dB
Function Unity-gain stable, voltage-feedback
Operating Temperature Range -40 → +85C
Settling time ns to % 50 → 0.1
V Offset mV 1.5



So what are you saying Stan.:scratch: Do you expect problems using this opamp in the TC-7520? Should i give it a try?

I expect problems. Slew rates of 1000V/uS are sources of HF oscillation. I stay away from those high speeds when it comes to audio circuits.

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 10:27
None I can think of. But a lot of people want the latest DAC chip before they part with their money;).

Ah, I see. Personally I don't mind as long as a good chip has been used and most importantly it's been implemented properly. I'll stick with the existing one. Thanks. :)

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 12:20
My pair of LME49720HA just arrived. It looks like it's going to be a bit tricky to attach the 100nF cap but I'll see what I can do.

Does it matter if one of the cap's legs touches the metal can?

trailer
31-03-2009, 12:23
My pair of LME49720HA just arrived. It looks like it's going to be a bit tricky to attach the 100nF cap but I'll see what I can do.

Does it matter if one of the cap's legs touches the metal can?

I'm not using the cap on my 49720's.

Covenant
31-03-2009, 12:36
Please correct me if I am wrong about this. The LME49720HA does not require a cap because it is not separated from the socket by an interface board. The capacitor that is already fitted is adequate.

trailer
31-03-2009, 12:42
That's what I thought. Hence no cap.

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 12:46
Hmm, when I asked a few days ago if all of the replacement opamps would benefit from the cap, Stan said yes. Could you please clear this up Stan?

StanleyB
31-03-2009, 12:54
Hmm, when I asked a few days ago if all of the replacement opamps would benefit from the cap, Stan said yes. Could you please clear this up Stan?
I suggest that you refrain from doing any sort of repairs or mods if you are not familiar with the requirements regarding opamp power supply decoupling.
For reference, see the manufacturer's datasheet of the component you intend to use, and also read up about it ' The Art Of Electronics' by Horowitz and Hill.


Stan

Covenant
31-03-2009, 13:14
Pssst Leo-can you help here?:mental:

apmusson
31-03-2009, 13:40
He has done the whole thing for me. Ordered the THS4032CD opamps, supplied the caps and SOIC to DIL boards and soldered it together. Total cost inc p&p = 19.70.

Will let you know how it works out when I get it.

Ade

The guy who is soldering my THS4032CD to the 'SOIC to DIL' boards wants to know whether I need round or square pins (see email below)

"We can supply them with round or square pins.
Round is smaller & allows them to be plugged into a turned pin IC socket but
on some plugboards the round pins sre too small to be reliable on the
plugboard & need to be plugged into a turned pin IC socket which in turn is
plugged into the breadboard. Square pins are ideal for plugging into a
breadboard but are too big for a turned pin IC socket. They can be forced
into a leaf spring IC socket but it's not an elegant solution.

Which do you want. Square(0.9mm diagonal) or round (0.5mm diameter)?"

Can anyone advise which I need? I assume its the round pins?

Thanks

Ade

sponge
31-03-2009, 13:48
Which do you want. Square(0.9mm diagonal) or round (0.5mm diameter)?"

Can anyone advise which I need? I assume its the round pins?

Thanks

Ade

OK, the pins on the BrownDog adapter I have used are 0.5mm round. Hope this is what you need.

Ken

apmusson
31-03-2009, 13:53
OK, the pins on the BrownDog adapter I have used are 0.5mm round. Hope this is what you need.

Ken

Thanks Ken. Thats just what I needed to know.

leo
31-03-2009, 14:59
Pssst Leo-can you help here?:mental:

I'm afraid I can't offer any solid answers because I don't own the TC-7510 or 20 so don't know how any of these replacement op-amps react in this particular unit, all I can do is offer advice on things maybe worth trying
For all op-amps I try in any of my own gear I check for instability/oscillations,temp issues or any nasties, read the spec sheet to make sure its at least got half a chance to work in the particular application

Some of the faster higher bandwidth types like video rated op-amps usually require much more care and tend to be less suited as a drop in replacement, sometimes they will work fine yet sometimes require additional work, it may sound ok for a while but that does not guarantee its not suffering from some HF oscillation
Some op-amps are also not suited to be used at unity gain

LM4562 is a device rated for Hi-Fi audio and its unity gain stable, of course care should still be applied but you have more chance of getting stable results with this one than some of the other higher spec types

Without droning on too much more :doh:
I think the metal can LM4562 should be ok ,the onboard bypass ceramic should be adequate and should not need an additional one, looking at the pic apart from the socket the cap looks close to the pins(unless theres some weird long track) , ideally (If it was me) if the thing measures ok and I was sure this op-amp is the one I want to keep not wanting to try others I'd go as far as removing the DIL socket and soldering the op-amp direct to the pcb.

Covenant
31-03-2009, 15:11
Thanks Leo,
Assuming an op-amp did cause HF oscillation would removal and replacement with a more basic one solve the problem or is it possible to do permanent damage?

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 15:53
Thanks guys, I'll leave the caps off for now and see what happens.
I've formed and trimmed the legs of my 49720's to make them as short as possible and I'll fit them tonight. I'm going to borrow an antistatic wrist strap and mat from work just to be on the safe side.

The wife's working late tonight so I get lot's of uninterrupted listening time. Perfect timing. :cool:

leo
31-03-2009, 16:00
Thanks Leo,
Assuming an op-amp did cause HF oscillation would removal and replacement with a more basic one solve the problem or is it possible to do permanent damage?


Depends, mainly the damage would be to the op-amp internally, if an op-amp starts to suffer from bad oscillation it will over heat, continued use whilst over heating can make the op-amp go noisy, sound distorted or hissy.


Problems to the circuit outside of the op-amp can be things like burnt resistors, damaged regulators etc, if the op-amp oscillates it can put much more strain on the supply, causes the whole thing to ring like buggery
Some cases the thing feeding the op-amp or being fed from the op-amp may get damaged, things should be better protected though if input and output coupling caps are used

trailer
31-03-2009, 16:28
I've been running 4562's and 49720's for a week each, with no cap, constantly with no issues.

Covenant
31-03-2009, 16:53
I'm afraid you are the guinea pig then Trailer!
If you experience any problems please report back asap.

trailer
31-03-2009, 16:58
Aye,

"NOW YOU TELL ME!!"

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

leo
31-03-2009, 17:17
Somebody needs to make a FAQ or sticky thread;)

mwahahaha
31-03-2009, 17:43
OK well the 47920's are now in - bit of a struggle straightening the legs to get the little buggers in the sockets but I got there eventually!

One thing - how hot are they meant to get? After a couple of minutes the one on the right if you're looking at the DAC from the front was very hot to touch after I unplugged the DAC just to check they were both securely seated.

cheers
Dan

trailer
31-03-2009, 18:01
OK well the 47920's are now in - bit of a struggle straightening the legs to get the little buggers in the sockets but I got there eventually!

One thing - how hot are they meant to get? After a couple of minutes the one on the right if you're looking at the DAC from the front was very hot to touch after I unplugged the DAC just to check they were both securely seated.

cheers
Dan

No idea. I just put the lid back on. Nothing on fire as of yet. How are you finding the sound?

mwahahaha
31-03-2009, 18:04
A little leaner as you found although I think that is because there's more going on at the top end which is good. A more spacious sound than the original. Not a "night and day" change but I didn't expect that at all - just a refinement of what was there already.

Overall - a very happy camper!

trailer
31-03-2009, 18:09
I found that they took a good few days to settle down. I don't know why. Maybe it was just me getting use to them, but they certainly get more refined. And the bass is LOW

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 18:12
OK well the 47920's are now in - bit of a struggle straightening the legs to get the little buggers in the sockets but I got there eventually!

One thing - how hot are they meant to get? After a couple of minutes the one on the right if you're looking at the DAC from the front was very hot to touch after I unplugged the DAC just to check they were both securely seated.

cheers
Dan

I've had my 47920's installed for about an hour now with the DAC playing through my amp and my headphones to run both opamps in and they are only slightly warm to the touch. Perhaps this is something to do with the impedance of your headphones if they're quite high or low or something? :confused: I don't know much about driving headphones as I prefer not to use them.

On the subject of the 47920's, I'm liking the sound so far. I've not noticed a massive difference yet but I think that's because my speakers aren't good enough to make a critical comparison. I should be getting some new ones soon though.

I have noticed a little more detail overall and more punch to the bass.

Gazjam
31-03-2009, 19:06
with the LM4562NA I found an obvious and immediate difference.

As in different sound signature kind of difference.

As time went on it became better and better (and more different from the original sound)


Agree that a sticky about best Op Amp to use, various mods would be good. Perhaps even a Poll or two?

trailer
31-03-2009, 19:11
with the LM4562NA I found an obvious and immediate difference.

As in different sound signature kind of difference.

As time went on it became better and better (and more different from the original sound)


Agree that a sticky about best Op Amp to use, various mods would be good. Perhaps even a Poll or two?
Aye I went from the 4562s to the 47920s so the night and day wasn't there as going from the 4562s from the standards. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 4032s sound in comparison though.

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 19:14
I've just noticed that due to the 47920's being taller than the original opamps, they may slightly touch the inside of the lid when I replace it. Is this bad?
If it's bad all put a strip of insulating tape under the lid. If it doesn't matter, I may put a blob of heatsink paste on top of each one to help them dissipate heat through the case.

apmusson
31-03-2009, 19:26
Aye I went from the 4562s to the 47920s so the night and day wasn't there as going from the 4562s from the standards. I'm looking forward to seeing how the 4032s sound in comparison though.

I've ordered the 4562s and the 4032s. I will get them both in time for the weekend. Which ones should I start with? Stan mentions using both types (one in each IC socket). I might do the same - use the 4032 for the headamp and the 4562 for the static line out circuit and route that through my Graham Slee Solo Headamp.

What do you think?

Ade

mwahahaha
31-03-2009, 19:29
I've had my 47920's installed for about an hour now with the DAC playing through my amp and my headphones to run both opamps in and they are only slightly warm to the touch. Perhaps this is something to do with the impedance of your headphones if they're quite high or low or something? :confused: I don't know much about driving headphones as I prefer not to use them.

On the subject of the 47920's, I'm liking the sound so far. I've not noticed a massive difference yet but I think that's because my speakers aren't good enough to make a critical comparison. I should be getting some new ones soon though.

I have noticed a little more detail overall and more punch to the bass.

Oh god now you've got me worried! Might check them again after I get home tonight see how they are:confused:

I don't use headphones so that doesn't explain it? Maybe I damaged the opamp whilst installing it and that has resulted in the heat? I'll compare them both when I get home.

sponge
31-03-2009, 19:45
Oh god now you've got me worried! Might check them again after I get home tonight see how they are:confused:

I don't use headphones so that doesn't explain it? Maybe I damaged the opamp whilst installing it and that has resulted in the heat? I'll compare them both when I get home.

Personally, I'd try swapping the opamps around - ie. the one in socket 1 swap with the one in socket 2 and vica-versa and see if the problem moves with the opamp. If it does then check there isn't a short circuit to the can with one or more of the legs. If that's clear, pop the original 5532 in the hot opamp socket and observe again.

Ken

HighFidelityGuy
31-03-2009, 20:05
Hmm, according to Stan the opamp an the right is for the headphone output, so something doesn't seem right. Saying that, the one on the right is slightly warmer than the one on the left in mine but then I have headphones connected. I'd definitely do what Ken said to be on the safe side.

mwahahaha
31-03-2009, 21:39
Just got home and whipped the lid off and all was well. I reseated the hot amp before I went out and maybe I hadn't got it in 100% correctly. Anyway just rolling a few tunes through the dac and will unplug everything and have another check before I go to bed.

I don't use the headphone amp anyway (Yet!) so only really need the one anyway if one is damaged.

mwahahaha
31-03-2009, 22:02
OK well after a few mins of tunes the headphone amp opamp is very hot again.

I've taken it out and put one of the original ones back in just as a control.

The main opamp is fine though so perhaps I have a dud? I'll see how the original fares after 10 mins or so.

Covenant
01-04-2009, 06:44
with the LM4562NA I found an obvious and immediate difference.

As in different sound signature kind of difference.

As time went on it became better and better (and more different from the original sound)


Agree that a sticky about best Op Amp to use, various mods would be good. Perhaps even a Poll or two?

Best 10 you have spent Gaz?

apmusson
01-04-2009, 09:49
Best 10 you have spent Gaz?

Just installed my 4562s. My first listen (20 minutes - quick test) left me with a smile on my face. The 4562s seem to create a more 'solid' sound (drums had more depth) and also an improvement in separation. I shall carry on testing them for a few days and then try the 4032s on the heapamp circuit.

Big improvement for 10 imho.

Ade

StanleyB
01-04-2009, 10:12
Once the original opamps are replaced for the LM4562 or THS4032, the TC-7520 ends up having one of the best non-discrete output stages in a DAC out there.

Gazjam
01-04-2009, 11:42
Best 10 you have spent Gaz?

Dunno,
there was that Belgian hooker that one time...... :eyebrows:

and it was 8.99, so even better.

StanleyB
01-04-2009, 12:04
Dunno,
there was that Belgian hooker that one time...... :eyebrows:

and it was 8.99, so even better.
Was that EURO or Belgian Francs?

chebby
01-04-2009, 12:33
LM4562NA (x2) arrived this morning.

10 minute job (mostly ensuring the kitchen work surface was as dust free as possible with a clean microfibre duster and finding my old antistatic wrist-strap and attaching it to the earth connection under the sink and getting the little plastic cap from the TC-7520 box to cover the exposed fibre optic connector).

Swapping the opamps was very easy due to the sockets (thanks).

All connected back to the hifi and the bass improvement was immediate. Nothing subtle. I spent an hour or two listening to 'Sinatra at the Sands' and Pearl Django and Bucky Pizzarelli. (iTunes Lossless and 256kbps AAC via USB from laptop system.)

Now I am watching the Sopranos episode "Mr Ruggerio's neighborhood" from season 3 (the one with the great mixture of Mancini's "Peter Gunn" theme and "Every Breath you take" by The Police) with my Panasonic DVD/HDD recorder connected via optical cable to the DAC.

Finer detail and better bass. It has not lost the class-A type character that I so enjoy with the TC-7520.

I will not be doing any further upgrades. I like the neatness of the Beresford supplied PSU and dislike the size and look of the Maplin unit. (Looks tacky and is too big with more wires.)

I am certainly not going to start soldering anything. No experience or training.

I have been urged by 'Gazjam' (in another forum) to wait for the new opamps
to run-in. They sound fine right now so if they get better then that is a bonus. The rest of the TC-7520 has been playing for many hours every day for almost 2 months so I am sure it is 'run-in' by now. I honestly cannot say I listen for such things.

As someone said, it is all about the music. The nicest thing about the TC-7520 so far has been the way it disappears. (Even my wife loves listening to the Archers on Freeview radio via the DAC or the Omnibus repeat on iTunes and likes how natural and easy and open it sounds. I won't tell her about the upgrade and see if she notices anything different in the next few days.)

StanleyB
01-04-2009, 13:24
LM4562NA (x2) arrived this morning.

10 minute job

Swapping the opamps was very easy due to the sockets (thanks).


Just consider that you would have had to send the DAC away and fork out at least 200 quid before you could get a set of LM4562 fitted to the DAC of one of my nearest priced competitors:eyebrows:. And after spending at least 400 for that DAC plus its upgrade I have not yet come across any A/B tests that puts the performance of the TC-7520 below it, or any other DAC for that matter. The only mention of sorts is that done my JLAND100 about his 3 box solutions DAC.

Covenant
01-04-2009, 13:38
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=c&action=display&thread=4040&page=1#47590
Crappy review of the 7520 by a Cyrus fan. As usual price not a factor.

StanleyB
01-04-2009, 13:55
The shocker was that some of them were modified, but he had no idea which ones. Is it the same Cyrus DAC that was judged to be not much better than the TC-7510 by a well respected HIFI magazine not so long ago?

Covenant
01-04-2009, 14:07
I wouldnt know Stan as its about two years since I bought a hifi mag! Much more information on forums such as this. As you said he just casually throws in the fact that some of the dacs are modified but he doesnt know by whom, what was done and how much was spent.
The sad thing is many people will go and spend too much money on an inferior product as a result.

drumlins4ever
01-04-2009, 15:22
Over the last few weeks i have been testing the following opamps with the 7520.

LM4562NA
OPA2132PA
OPA2134PA

And have decided to stay with the LM4562's, put them back in today, the others are very nice too but i just love the 4562's soundstage, presence and bass .


Proac 110
Harman Kardon HK680
Beresford TC-7520
Airport Express / Macbook
CA 640C Azur

Covenant
01-04-2009, 15:55
I have installed one LME49720HA today and got terrible distortion. Sounded like the PA at a working mens club after ten pints of Guiness.
Thought I had done something wrong and put back the 4562-brilliant sound.

Is it possible I have a duff one?

mwahahaha
01-04-2009, 16:09
I have gone back to the original opamp in the headphone section and the 49720 in the line section as the other 49720 was getting really really hot I didn't want to leave it in and risk damaging the dac.

trailer
01-04-2009, 16:51
I have installed one LME49720HA today and got terrible distortion. Sounded like the PA at a working mens club after ten pints of Guiness.
Thought I had done something wrong and put back the 4562-brilliant sound.

Is it possible I have a duff one?

Are you sure you have it aligned correctly?

Covenant
01-04-2009, 17:37
Not sure. The top of the cap wasnt level but I suppose some of the legs may have been bent more than others. It really sounded bad and I was scared I was going to do some damage leaving it in.
Think its worth trying again?

sponge
01-04-2009, 17:41
... I shall carry on testing them for a few days and then try the 4032s on the heapamp circuit.

Big improvement for 10 imho.

Ade

I'm sure you will like the 4032's - I certainly do.

Just out of interest - How does the 7520 sound now you have the LM4562's installed compared to your Slee Solo headamp? I seem to remember you saying it was a close call even on the stock 5532's (or was the someone else).

Cheers - Ken

trailer
01-04-2009, 17:55
Not sure. The top of the cap wasnt level but I suppose some of the legs may have been bent more than others. It really sounded bad and I was scared I was going to do some damage leaving it in.
Think its worth trying again?

The tab on the cap should be aligned so that it is pointing towards pin8

sponge
01-04-2009, 18:10
I have installed one LME49720HA today and got terrible distortion. Sounded like the PA at a working mens club after ten pints of Guiness.
Thought I had done something wrong and put back the 4562-brilliant sound.

Is it possible I have a duff one?

Check that none of the IC's legs are shorting to the can. I believe that the can is internally connected to -ve supply rail.

Ken

apmusson
01-04-2009, 18:14
I'm sure you will like the 4032's - I certainly do.

Just out of interest - How does the 7520 sound now you have the LM4562's installed compared to your Slee Solo headamp? I seem to remember you saying it was a close call even on the stock 5532's (or was the someone else).

Cheers - Ken

I have decided to sell the Slee. Its a great headphone amp, very well made with a rich and detailed sound, but for what I want the 7520 is fantastic. I dont know whether its Stans design or shortened signal paths, but the sound I'm getting from my Sennheiser HD650's is outstanding.

The 4562 opamp upgrade has pushed the 7520 up a level sound qualitywise. Different people have different preferences when it comes to sound quality but I am intending to get together with a colleague of mine who has an expensive DAC and Amp combo... I've told him of my experience with the TC7520 & Slee and we're both keen to do some comparisons. Just waiting for him to confirm a date.

Ade

Covenant
01-04-2009, 18:36
Check that none of the IC's legs are shorting to the can. I believe that the can is internally connected to -ve supply rail.

Ken

I think I will leave it until tomorrow-enjoying the music too much tonight.

tizer2000uk
01-04-2009, 21:41
Well I have been listening to both of these for a short while now and thought I would post my findings:

LM4562NA - A definite night and day difference above the stock opamps, nice character that favors vocals, really makes them stand out of the mix while retaining a great balanced and detailed sound, pianos sound like pianos, cellos like cellos and so forth.

THS4032CD - Very neutral sound which reigns the vocals back in, as a result it brings far more detail out of the material than the LM4562's. This naturally results in having to turn the volume up a bit more :) and because of this cymbals, high hats and drums leap out of the mix far more than they used to, not overly but they now have a satisfying thwack and on some material can feel like your head is indeed inside the drumkit, much more so with Grados than Senns and other similar cans. Not used the extra cap yet so can't comment on this although I shall probably give this a try later on. I think the LM4562 is a great opamp if your system is closer toward the budget scale or needs help with the vocal range. The THS4032 on the other hand would suit a very revealing system or high end headphones, cheap cans sound pretty ropey with them.

I have also noticed on alot of material that you can get a sense of the size of the recording venue with the THS4032's that I dont get with the others, its very subtle to the ear but major enough that the brain notices the change

A word of warning for DIYers tho, I put one of LM4562's in the wrong way and it now ceases to work, luckily I get them for free so there is no loss to me, it just means I have 3 instead of 4.

apmusson
01-04-2009, 21:50
The THS4032 on the other hand would suit a very revealing system or high end headphones, cheap cans sound pretty ropey with them.

Thanks for your descriptive review - I'm really looking forward to trying them now.

tizer2000uk
01-04-2009, 22:33
It has also got to be said the THS4032's have so far been the less fatiguing of the group by quite a margin. I could quite happily sit here until the sun comes up with this particular one...Every song I have so far fed this thing has sounded....right!

Question for Stan: Without consulting the spec sheet, what other mod would be needed with this opamp to quieten the slight 'pop' when opening a track?

StanleyB
02-04-2009, 06:40
Question for Stan: Without consulting the spec sheet, what other mod would be needed with this opamp to quieten the slight 'pop' when opening a track?
No idea as yet. I'll have to fit a set of THS4032 in mine again and listen out for the pop you hear.

Covenant
02-04-2009, 07:58
The tab on the cap should be aligned so that it is pointing towards pin8

Ok I am all ready to have another go. Found the tab you mentioned. Is pin 8 bottom right or bottom left?

trailer
02-04-2009, 08:37
Ok I am all ready to have another go. Found the tab you mentioned. Is pin 8 bottom right or bottom left?

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/3356/picture020small.jpg

Covenant
02-04-2009, 09:05
Thanks Trailer, much appreciated. I had put my opamp in the wrong way around-I used your photo from earlier in this thread but my sockets were 180 degree reversed from yours.
As a result I have damaged the op-amp which plays at very low volume and there is some distortion on the optical input.
So I have reverted to the 4562 which is fine. I will probably leave it a while before messing with more op-amps. :doh:

trailer
02-04-2009, 12:59
Right,

I decided to get the original DAC chip put back into the 7510 (otherwise modded with some Black Gates and a 4562). I plugged it back in today and had a listen, compared to my 7520 with the 49720s in.
It still sounds very good indeed. The only thing I would say is that the sound doesn't seem as big. A little thinner if anything. I preferred the 7520.

Through the mailbox this morning came the 4032s from Tirna Electronics.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8921/picture023large.jpg

I left the 7510 playing for a bit whilst I changed out the opamps in the 7520.
Plugged the 7520 back in and fired up some tunes.

I can safely say that the 4032's bring out the best in the 7520 so far. No question. More natural sounding with all the detail still there. One minor point is that the bass doesnt seem to go as low but I think it is more controlled now.

apmusson
02-04-2009, 14:14
Right,

I decided to get the original DAC chip put back into the 7510 (otherwise modded with some Black Gates and a 4562). I plugged it back in today and had a listen, compared to my 7520 with the 49720s in.
It still sounds very good indeed. The only thing I would say is that the sound doesn't seem as big. A little thinner if anything. I preferred the 7520.

Through the mailbox this morning came the 4032s from Tirna Electronics.

I left the 7510 playing for a bit whilst I changed out the opamps in the 7520.
Plugged the 7520 back in and fired up some tunes.

I can safely say that the 4032's bring out the best in the 7520 so far. No question. More natural sounding with all the detail still there. One minor point is that the bass doesnt seem to go as low but I think it is more controlled now.

Wow thanks for the write up and picture. I'm really looking forward to getting my 4032s from Tirna Electronics - hopefully they'll arrive tomorrow.

How did you know which way to plug in the circuit board? On the DIL OpAmp chips they have a small mark to indicate pin 1, but I cant see that on the circuit board and don't want to ruin the opamp?

Thanks

Ade

trailer
02-04-2009, 14:39
There's a small white triangle on the board adjacent to Pin 1

rhmjmango
02-04-2009, 15:19
I bought some adapters that are no good for the TC-7520. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Surface-Mount-Converter-SOIC-8-JEDEC-NARROW-DIL-adapter_W0QQitemZ360138275698QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET?hash=item36 0138275698&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1121|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18

The pins have a diameter of 0.9mm. It should be 0.5mm!

http://picasaweb.google.com/bbmango7/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCNj55YrSnYLOYg&pli=1&gsessionid=KEiXp560Gq8t3uDktjyWVw#5320113169436296 258

I will edit this post when the line-up in the pic is not right

sponge
02-04-2009, 15:45
There's a small white triangle on the board adjacent to Pin 1

Also, pin 1 solder pad on the adapter board is square - All the others are round.

rhmjmango
02-04-2009, 16:04
Is this the right adapter?
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=494

sponge
02-04-2009, 16:40
Is this the right adapter?
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=494

I don't think so - there may not be enough room to fit it, and it looks like the pins are separate.

Better - Get these:

http://cimarrontechnology.com/so8to8-pindipadapterpn970601.aspx

I only ever use these and have had no problems.

Good luck
Ken

FireFly
02-04-2009, 18:56
received my 7520 today.
Stan, can you provide some schematics or should I go my own way and do some reverse engineering?

apmusson
03-04-2009, 10:18
Just got my THS4032 and fitted them correctly (thanks for the info). They sound awesome in the 7520 and are the best I have tried. I am going to stick with them.

I do have one question though. The board and capacitor required for the THS4032 now stick up above the case fitting meaning that I can't refit the original case cover. Is this something I'm going to gave to live with or do you guys have any cosmetic solutions..

Ade

StanleyB
03-04-2009, 10:43
Just got my THS4032 and fitted them correctly (thanks for the info). They sound awesome in the 7520 and are the best I have tried. I am going to stick with them.

I do have one question though. The board and capacitor required for the THS4032 now stick up above the case fitting meaning that I can't refit the original case cover. Is this something I'm going to gave to live with or do you
If you are going to stick with them, then consider desoldering the IC socket I fitted for the 5532. Then solder in the THS4032 in its place. That way you can then close the case.

Stan

drumlins4ever
03-04-2009, 14:09
Through the mailbox this morning came the 4032s from Tirna Electronics.

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/8921/picture023large.jpg

I left the 7510 playing for a bit whilst I changed out the opamps in the 7520.
Plugged the 7520 back in and fired up some tunes.



Have you found any clearance issues when trying to put the top of the case back on ?

rhmjmango
03-04-2009, 14:34
ny of you notice a significant difference in the way the cab is soldered by 'Sponge' and how 'Trailer' soldered the cap????
It handles the job one way or the other i suppose!?

trailer
03-04-2009, 14:37
Have you found any clearance issues when trying to put the top of the case back on ?

I can't say I did. The 4032s actually are lower than the 49720s for me.

rhmjmango
03-04-2009, 14:39
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3459/3384769693_771e61ee3e_m.jpg

This is the one by Sponge

drumlins4ever
03-04-2009, 15:08
Just got my THS4032 and fitted them correctly (thanks for the info). They sound awesome in the 7520 and are the best I have tried. I am going to stick with them.

I do have one question though. The board and capacitor required for the THS4032 now stick up above the case fitting meaning that I can't refit the original case cover. Is this something I'm going to gave to live with or do you guys have any cosmetic solutions..

Ade

What board did you use ? (any Pics?) , it seems you are the first to have this problem.

apmusson
03-04-2009, 15:50
What board did you use ? (any Pics?) , it seems you are the first to have this problem.

Same board as trailer (from Tirna Electronics. I noticed that trailers amp board (containing the IC sockets) was lower against the Headphone socket. When I looked at mine I had a sticky pad between the headphone socket and the amp board, so I removed that which lowered everything by a couple of mm. However the caps still stick out over the case (see pic).

Ade

apmusson
03-04-2009, 17:06
I have managed to close the case of my 7520!

I kept looking at trailers pic and noticing that my amp board was much higher off the headphone socket than his was. I took out the amp board and then noticed that the all of the components had about 3 mm of wire sticking out from the solder and that this was preventing the board from being closer to the headphone socket. I snipped off the protruding wire and voila my THS4032 now (just) fits inside the case....

But when I tried it I got the crackle that was mentioned by other THS4032 users. Luckily I had 2 of them so swapped the Fixed Output OpAmp for the Headphone Amp. But be warned, the THS4032 does seem to be very sensitive..

Ade

sponge
03-04-2009, 17:33
ny of you notice a significant difference in the way the cab is soldered by 'Sponge' and how 'Trailer' soldered the cap????
It handles the job one way or the other i suppose!?

The difference is that I soldered the cap directly to the IC's pins and Trailer has soldered the cap to the adapter board pins.

HighFidelityGuy
03-04-2009, 19:40
I have managed to close the case of my 7520!

I kept looking at trailers pic and noticing that my amp board was much higher off the headphone socket than his was. I took out the amp board and then noticed that the all of the components had about 3 mm of wire sticking out from the solder and that this was preventing the board from being closer to the headphone socket. I snipped off the protruding wire and voila my THS4032 now (just) fits inside the case....

But when I tried it I got the crackle that was mentioned by other THS4032 users. Luckily I had 2 of them so swapped the Fixed Output OpAmp for the Headphone Amp. But be warned, the THS4032 does seem to be very sensitive..

Ade

I've just had a look at mine and I'll have the same problem. However I didn't just have a sticky pad under my amp board there was also loads of hot melt glue. I managed to carefully remove it all and get the board to sit a bit lower. I don't have any side cutters at home though so I'll have to wait till next week to trim the pins.

One thing to be careful of though is that there are two tall caps under the amp board which could short out pins if you lower the amp board all the way down. I put some tape over the caps to prevent this.

trailer
03-04-2009, 19:48
How are folk finding the 4032s soundwise?

apmusson
03-04-2009, 21:33
The sound of the THS4032 is (sorry for the Americanism) awesome. Best of the opamps I have tried (4562s and originals). Great dynamics, neutral and easy to listen to, Its all about the music with these beauties.

tizer2000uk
03-04-2009, 22:21
Definately my favorite opamp (THS4032) right now, unless someone can come up with something better I am very tempted to remove the DIL socket and solder these in place.

Also very tempted to upgrade the dac to a later Wolfson unit :)

Covenant
03-04-2009, 22:45
Stop it, stop it. I'm trying to forget about op-amps for a while. :doh:

StanleyB
04-04-2009, 06:11
When I mentioned that the THS4032 were the one I liked most and recommended, I didn't expect so many people to take me up on that:scratch:.
But I am glad you guys agree with me on the end results:).

Stan

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2009, 09:50
stan you have created a tweekers delight, there is no longer recession in the opamp manufacture sector

StanleyB
04-04-2009, 10:18
stan you have created a tweekers delight, there is no longer recession in the opamp manufacture sector

It's one way of getting people involved with the music from several angles;). I wanted to fit those surface mount THS4032 as standard, but a lot of people asked why I hadn't fitted a socket in the TC7510 so that folks could try out different chips. So in the TC7520 had to have a socket with at least a recognized decent chip as standard. If I had fitted a set of more expensive LM4562's instead and people wanted to try something else, then straight away you would have blown about 10 on the price of the TC7520 on a set of now redundant LM4562's. And fitting THS4032 in sockets is not the type of thing you do on any production line.

But there is more:eyebrows:. I am already experimenting with other mod possibilities that would be practical and relatively easy for the average electronic hobbyist to perform.

STan

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2009, 10:34
blimey,
if i were in your shoes i would offer uprgade packages to people. a little bubble wraped package containing a couple of opamps and various other electronic whosiwotsits with a small 'how-to'

btw did you get back the other dac?
and any news on thiat input duplicator thing?

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2009, 11:15
right, so i just hopped on this opamp upgrade parade
i was very happy with the sound from the standard ones but as people keep saying there are alternatives that areso much better i thouhgt id give it a bash
i have put in these 4562s
there is more bass and they seem a bit more grainy, is this normal, concidering they have only just gone in, or am i just hearing something thats not there through worry that i have broken it?

kalozois100
04-04-2009, 12:29
:wow:
Already 25 pages on modding the tc-7520!!! Congratulations Stan!:)

StanleyB
04-04-2009, 13:24
right, so i just hopped on this opamp upgrade parade
i was very happy with the sound from the standard ones but as people keep saying there are alternatives that areso much better i thouhgt id give it a bash
i have put in these 4562s
there is more bass and they seem a bit more grainy, is this normal, concidering they have only just gone in, or am i just hearing something thats not there through worry that i have broken it?

Probably just needs burning in.

sponge
04-04-2009, 13:54
But there is more:eyebrows:. I am already experimenting with other mod possibilities that would be practical and relatively easy for the average electronic hobbyist to perform.

STan

How about a quick release latch on the case lid? - These 4 screws are getting to me... :lol:

The Vinyl Adventure
04-04-2009, 14:06
yeah, it seems to be a bit better now, in fact it did seem to calm down pretty quick! i briefly dropped the other opamps back in and the grain was still there so i think i was just the track i was using and me listening a bit to hard i also am fairly certian in hindsight that it is coming from the amp
these new ones now just seem to sound a little bit more open and more realistic i guess, with a bit more depth yet control to the bass. does that sound about what i should expect?

kalozois100
04-04-2009, 14:35
How about a quick release latch on the case lid? - These 4 screws are getting to me... :lol:

I left out the screws and wrapped around the casing with electrical tape when i was modding the tc-7510. it keep the case in place just as well as screws and allowed fast access. when i finally finished the all mods i closed all with screws. just remember to keep screws in a safe place for later on...

Covenant
05-04-2009, 12:00
After living with the 4562 op-amps for a week or so I have decided that the bass is a bit heavy or one note-ish in my system. I must stress this is subtle and dependant on the type of music being played. Its probably due to using floor standing speakers in a small room. With standmounts these op-amps may be perfect.
Nevertheless I will be thinking of swapping them for something with better control of the lower frequencies.

trailer
05-04-2009, 12:02
After living with the 4562 op-amps for a week or so I have decided that the bass is a bit heavy or one note-ish in my system. I must stress this is subtle and dependant on the type of music being played. Its probably due to using floor standing speakers in a small room. With standmounts these op-amps may be perfect.
Nevertheless I will be thinking of swapping them for something with better control of the lower frequencies.

I like a lot of bass and loved the 4562's and the 49720's.

The 4032's control the bass MUCH better.

mwahahaha
05-04-2009, 12:06
I like a lot of bass and loved the 4562's and the 49720's.

The 4032's control the bass MUCH better.

Think I might give the 4032's a go now that we seem to have found the eBay supplier that will do all the prep work. I have found the 49720's just take a bit of the feeling out of the sound - this could be because the bass is a little loose and is overshadowing the uppers and the mid's. Some albums/tracks though sound much better with the 49720's - just depends on the recording/music genre.