View Full Version : A cable thread for Rega system owners.
Hello folks, thought I’d put this post up for the benefit of any Rega Brio-R, DAC or RS series loudspeaker owners out there who may be keen to optimise the much discussed 'synergy' which happens when one puts Rega bits together in a system with sympathetic cable choices.
Warning – This is subjective type thread, if you’re not keen on threads about cables and synergy then probably best to look away now.:lol:
So now we’ve got that out of the way I’ll post my thoughts on my recommendations for the best bits of wires to get your Rega kit singing…
Interconnect – Rega Couple (Clone)
The IC I’m currently using is a homemade clone of a Rega Couple which I bought off a member here for 15quid if I remember rightly. It uses Klotz AC110 cable and Puresonic RCA plugs which are widely available and reasonably priced.
http://www.studiospares.com/cable-guitar-/klotz-ac110-guitar-cable-metre/invt/544590/
http://www.puresonic.com.tw/web/RCA%20plugs.htm
Before I settled on these I tried cables from Monster, Belkin, QED and Chord.
Speaker Cable
For this I settled on the excellent value Rega Quattro Cable from these guys, it comes as a bi-wire cable and is easily split for single wiring. I connect bare wires directly to the binding posts on amp and speakers.
http://www.lintone.co.uk/special-offers/rega-quattro-fsc-speaker-cable-2169-148-3202.php
Before settling on these I tried Chord Carnival Silver Screen, Supra 79 I had lying around, some of the mid-priced Gale stuff from Richers I used to have in my kitchen system and some thick non-descript ‘professional low noise audio cable’ which I was sent with some ebay stuff I’d bought. I’ve not had the means to try the much adored Tellurium Q Black which have been suggested but they will be tried at some point.
Mains Cables
For the mains I settled on some homemade clones of Rega’s own high end mains cables which are apparently shipped with the flagship Osiris amplifier. All the stuff came courtesy of MCRU and rather than post links I’ll just say they were made from Lapp cable, Martin Kaiser Brass Plated IECs and MK brass plated toughplugs. Pretty straightforward construction with the braid connected at the ground pin of the plug end, used a bit wire casing and solder to connect to the earth cable and keep the job tidy. The cable ends were tinned with a little solder so the small pins got a good grip. For the DAC I use a cloverleaf IEC to C5 adaptor also supplied by MCRU.
I also tried some other homemade cables made from Black Rhodium Fusion Cable, Kaiser Silver Plated IECs and MK silver plated tough plugs. Also tried the stock Rega cables the components came with.
Other Bits
As my laptop is my main source and have now collected quite a few HD tracks I added a Musical Fidelity V-Link II. The Rega DAC has a fine USB input but this just seemed to bring out the best of everything from the DAC. For those interested my USB cable is a mid-priced gold plated thing from maplin, the Digital Coaxial is an old bit of 75ohm Monster Cable I’ve had for 20 year.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-linkii/
Finally a few thoughts on set up
Through trail and error I found the Brio R sounded best when plugged directly into the wall, all the other components were connected to my Tacima Mains Conditioner. The RS3 speakers responded well to being placed on those granite worktop savers available for £7 a piece from Argos. They also responded well to being slightly tilted back, not too much though. I have the side firing woofers pointing outwards.
I’ve tried to avoid saying this had more bass and that was more bright etc etc as its such a subjective area. These are just things I’ve found worked best for me and I’m grateful to Gaz and Brian for their advice. They have some further tweaks of their own which I’m sure they will be kind enough to post here for the benefit of other Rega users. They’ve experimented with lots more options than I have and I’ve only gained from their experience and contribution.
To sum up if you’re buying a Rega system like mine, Brio-R, Dac and RS series speakers then you are probably spending anywhere between £1200-£2000 on your components depending on where you get them from. All of the tweaks mentioned above can be achieved for approx £150 which seems very reasonable. My system has never sounded better.
Gaz n Brian, over to you… fill your boots!:cool:
Ali Tait
29-01-2013, 10:14
Biggest improvement I've heard in a Rega system was swapping in some TQ Black. Never heard a cable make such a difference in a system.
hifi_dave
29-01-2013, 10:48
Rega have a complete new range of incons and speaker cables on the way. First up is a 'new' Couple using different cable and plugs and a flattish speaker cable. All designed/developed by Rega.
Rega have a complete new range of incons and speaker cables on the way. First up is a 'new' Couple using different cable and plugs and a flattish speaker cable. All designed/developed by Rega.
Just when you think you've got it cracked eh...:lol:
Seriously interested in this Dave, please keep us informed of what you are hearing from them.
hifi_dave
29-01-2013, 11:53
As usual with Rega, details are scant to say the least.
They have been working to develop cables for some years as they have never had a 'range' or even any cables which have been in production for any length of time.
The new couple uses a cable which is different to the current one but just how will have to wait until I have it in my hands. The plugs are custom for Rega. Price is £98 for 1 mtr pair.
The speaker cable is flattish and £14.98 per mtr. 250 strands of OFC, 4 mm square section and that's it. Both cables are German made I believe but don't quote me on that.
Very soonish will be the Elicit-R amp, Saturn-R CD player and Aria MM/MC phono stage.
Beat me to it Rich, cheers for taking the time to start ther thread off. :)
Brian and I have similar Rega Kit, main difference is my RS3 speakers but his Rega's share the same house sound.
Between us we've tried all sorts of stuff and we always "sanity checked" the results with each other. We listened to the changes in each others systems too. I'll add to Rich's thoughts below;
Interconnect – Rega Couple (Clone) The IC I’m currently using is a homemade clone of a Rega Couple which I bought off a member here for 15quid if I remember rightly. It uses Klotz AC110 cable and Puresonic RCA plugs which are widely available and reasonably priced.
Had a loan of a set of the Clone cables from Rich, sounded great. An improvement actually over my Mark Grant HD2000's in my Rega system.
Was surprised at that to be honest, but I think its a case of system dependancy and its interesting that Brian thought the same when he heard the comparison.
Compared to the original Rega Couple cables though...we felt they were not quite as good. Not a lot in it, but they were better.
I was happy to pass on the 2000's without thinking I was compromising on sound anywhere.
I use the official Rega Couple cables and have no desire to change.
Speaker Cable
For this I settled on the excellent value Rega Quattro Cable from these guys, it comes as a bi-wire cable and is easily split for single wiring. I’ve not had the means to try the much adored Tellurium Q Black which have been suggested but they will be tried at some point.
Oh..speaker cable. Now there's a thorny one!
In my system, I originally had Mogami 2972 recc'ed to me by the dealer who sold me the RS3's. Sounded great, overall sound really open dynamic and musical. Then Ali Tait came along...:D
Dac bake off at mine, Ali had brought his TQ Black for me to hear.
When we plumbed it in ALL THREE OF US just looked at each other, not believing the level improvement this speaker cable had made.
Everything was better - everything. The RS3's now sounded like a more expensive set of speakers, a couple of levels up in fact.
Everything was just.....right.
Brian of course wanted a set, but we wanted to find out if we could get the "TQ Effect" with a cheaper cable, perhaps Rega's own for the "Rega Synergy?"
We tried the Quattro...good but the magic was missing. Not night and day difference but you could tell something had been taken away and you missed it.
Brian tried Black Rhodium cable, again nothing oin the TQ but I think (and Brian can confirm) that he preferred it to the Quattro?
Nope, TQ Black for Rega speakers is the way to go, Brian got himself a set and hasn't wanted to change since.
Rich, maybe David Brooks at MCRU can do you a loan set for a couple of weeks or whatever? No harm asking, Dave's a good guy.
Mains Cables
For the mains I settled on some homemade clones of Rega’s own high end mains cables which are apparently shipped with the flagship Osiris amplifier.
I bought an official Rega cable to try (was using a couple of Frank's (Effem) Krystal Kables Titans.
The Rega was better so Brian and I set about recreating them.
Brian had ordered some Lapp cable from MCRU and made me a clone cable to try using a silver plated plug and Wattgate IEC I had lying unused.
He was making up cables for himself at the same time, trying out different plugs, IEC's etc. For an indication of how good the Rega clone cable was in a Rega system it bettered Brian's DIY Furutech monster, gold plated plug,IEC and Furutech silver plated power cable.
I could see he was disappointed after having built it, but was happy to know he could build better for a lot cheaper! :)
Interestingly, he found standard brass plugs, not silver, rhodium plated or whatever made the best sounding cable...
With this in mind, I questioned the use of MK Toughplugs in the cable.
Without plated pins its just a normal plug really, with the crappy wee grubscrews connecting the wire to the pins.
I tried using the older style MK Smartplugs, which have MUCH better internal biding post type internal connects you can really screw the cable down with. This improved the sound of the cable over the Toughplugs.
Other Bits
I added a Musical Fidelity V-Link II. The Rega DAC has a fine USB input but this just seemed to bring out the best of everything from the DAC.
I too used a VLink II, running USB from server to SPDIF to the Dac.
A good upgrade though Rich is to use the VLink 192.
It uses completely different circuitry inside, USB chips different, proper Galvanic shielding the whole schmeer. Its noticably better sounding, even on 16/44 stuff.
If you have a lot of HD tracks you owe it to yourself to have a listen if you can.
A good usb and digital cable are vital of course if your using a converter and (unfortunately) adds another two steps in the chain as well as costing more.
The Rega USB input though is EXTREMELY good we found, the only snag is that it only does up to 16/48 which is not ideal if you have a lot of HD music.
That said, if your playback software allows you to downsample anything over 16/48 (I use JRiver) it still sounds tremendous.
Brian was using a Vlink II (not a 192) and actually prefers the sound of the USB input.
I was over at his last week and updated his Jriver software and applied a few new system tweaks and its the best I've heard his system sound...wonderful system.
Finally a few thoughts on set up
Through trail and error I found the Brio R sounded best when plugged directly into the wall, all the other components were connected to my Tacima Mains Conditioner. The RS3 speakers responded well to being placed on those granite worktop savers available for £7 a piece from Argos. They also responded well to being slightly tilted back, not too much though. I have the side firing woofers pointing outwards.
The Rega amp and Dac are unfussy about where they sit. As an experiment I sat them on the carpet and there was no difference I could hear. Good solid (and heavy!) casework.
The amp responds more than the Dac to changing power cables, it really likes good clean power fed to it.
All my kit is polugged into a Belkin PF30 power conditioner apart form the amp, which is plugged directly into the wall socket.
Having replaced my wall sockets with unswitched Crabtree ones, I noticed a marked improvement in the amp, not so much in the Dac.
The Dac sounds better plugged in to the PF30.
The RS3 speakers are unfussy about siting, but you get more from them when they are absolutely level and (in my room) tilting them back a few degrees so the tweeters are firing slightly upwards.
This was not a free tweak, it cost me 20p to sit 4 five pence pieces under the front spikes! :)
Having the bass units firing outwards was a no brainer in my case, having them inwards collapsed the soundstage and a lot of the clarity was lost.
So there you have it, I think we are pretty much sorted with the setup of our Rega systems...
though I hear on the grapevine Brian's working on a new mains block...Brian? :D
Hope there's some useful info in amongst my ramblings! :cool:
Be interesting to hear the new Rega Iconnect, thanks for the heads up Dave.
As usual with Rega, details are scant to say the least.
They have been working to develop cables for some years as they have never had a 'range' or even any cables which have been in production for any length of time.
The new couple uses a cable which is different to the current one but just how will have to wait until I have it in my hands. The plugs are custom for Rega. Price is £98 for 1 mtr pair.
The speaker cable is flattish and £14.98 per mtr. 250 strands of OFC, 4 mm square section and that's it. Both cables are German made I believe but don't quote me on that.
Very soonish will be the Elicit-R amp, Saturn-R CD player and Aria MM/MC phono stage.
brian2957
29-01-2013, 15:07
Yup , just when you think you've got it sorted along comes another set of new cables :doh: TBH with you I'm really happy with my system at the moment so not sure I'll change for a while . Thanks for the write-up guys , makes interesting reading , and thanks to Rich who started us out on this journey by providing us with the Rega clone . I have to say I agree with most of what has been written in both posts . Where to start :scratch: After testing quite a few USB cables we found the Furutech Formula 2 USB cable to be the best at a ' sensible ' price . Similarly the legendary Rega synergy kicked in with the installation of the Clone interconnects. These can be made using the Klotz AC110 cable and the Neutrik Profi RCA plugs. As Ali and Gary say the TQ black provided a substantial upgrade over the Quattro and ( IMO ) better Black Rhodium Twist speaker cables , taking us all by surprise. Lastly the Rega mains cable provided us with another surprise upgrade . We decided to try and replicate the mains cable using the Lapp 100 CY cable , however the cable which we received was thicker ( and better sounding ) than the cable used by Rega in their current mains cable . After much plug swapping we eventually arrived at the MK safety plug ( unplated ) and the Martin Kaiser IEC plug ( also unplated ) which Rega use in their mains cables at present.
I must emphasise here that we cannot underestimate the effect of synergy in all this , and the beauty of these changes is that they are relatively cheap and transform the Brio R / DAC combo.
I'm currently testing a new type of mains block with the Regas which I will post on if it's an improvement.
Thanks to Gary ( Gazjam ) and RichB for posting their thoughts . If any of you Rega owners out there have any ideas to share we would very much like to hear them.
Cheers for filling in the blanks guys, clearly we all agree that the much discussed 'synergy' happens and when it comes to Rega the enhancements can all be done on a modest budget increasing the overall bang for the buck we get from our systems. Hence I hope this thread might serve as a useful reference for other Rega owners. Given the reviews the amp and dac got there must be plenty of them out there.
Like Brian I will be now resting on my laurels for a while with only future tweaks being replacement plug sockets when I come to decorate in the next few weeks. A set of TQ Blacks and a V-Link 192 might turn up later in the year if I get curious again, for now though I'm quite content.
brian2957
29-01-2013, 16:05
Very happy with my system at the moment Rich . Try the unswitched Crabtree sockets mate . The improvements were far from subtle in mine and Gary's system , a cheap upgrade IMO .
I'm content too...(ish) :)
Will want to try the new Rega I/C but thats about it.
wee tee cee
29-01-2013, 18:55
really interesting thread, Brian had mentioned his thoughts about silver plugs when you guys brought the rega kit over. changed over the silver mains plugs on my power leads back to brass just for fun......quite different sound! synergy at play-very probably.
you get to know your own set up to the point that a ten quid mains plug shifts the sound noticeably. strange hobby this,great fun playing about with man stuff.
good to hear the rega boys are pulling resources and enjoying the music more....
Hi,
Great thread for Rega-holics! ;)
Many thanks to Brian, who gave me a nudge to get my cables sorted..:)
Just ordered up the Klotz cable and Neutrik Profi connectors to make myself a Couple Clone - should be interesting to compare them with my MG1500 HDs. Total inc P+P was £34 ish.
Any recommendations for digital coax cables?
Not sure if a change from my Belkin speaker cable to the Rega FSC would be worth it. What do you reckon?
Just to add that the Klotz AC110 is an excellent double screened coax cable, dearer than the Van Damme equivalents (actually quite expensive compared to that which Chord and others use for their basic wires), it's very low capacitance (70pF/m) and has a refined and Top End style of presentation, making most cheap interconnects sounding scrappy with treble "hash," to put it bluntly. I cannot in the slightest prove it, but I do feel that this cable got better with some use, livening up a little, in the same way I felt that my MG HD1500 interconnects tamed a little with use - probably bunkum, but that's how I feel ;)
The reason for mentioning this is because Rega "voiced" their line source products using these cables and IMO it makes sense to use them for now, in the same way that the classic Arcam CD players from twenty years or so ago (Alpha 5 - 9etc) were finalised using Audioquest interconnects, which they imported back then (we found the mid priced "Quartz" model suited them well).
I'm not saying you can't do better than a "Couple" style interconnect (AC110 with Neutrik Pro plugs), but since professional engineers rate this cable I'd give it serious consideration.
As for speaker cables, I wasn't a fan of the original Rega tape style cables (transparent with a green text and stripe from memory) and don't know the current Quattro well at all, but my choice when I sold Rega was the Cable talk 4.1 (not the 3.1) and related Excel 4, which I now use myself and also the green hosepipe Concert 2.1. The Excel 4 lives on in customised form as the current Talk (Electronics) 3 cable for £4 per metre and again, this works well.
Canetoad
09-02-2013, 16:49
Any recommendations for digital coax cables?
Martin I have a Mike Homar WBT cu coax cable going spare at the moment. I bought the same item off Marco with WBT ag plugs and use that now. PM me if you are interested. :)
Hi,
Great thread for Rega-holics! ;)
Many thanks to Brian, who gave me a nudge to get my cables sorted..:)
Just ordered up the Klotz cable and Neutrik Profi connectors to make myself a Couple Clone - should be interesting to compare them with my MG1500 HDs. Total inc P+P was £34 ish.
Any recommendations for digital coax cables?
Not sure if a change from my Belkin speaker cable to the Rega FSC would be worth it. What do you reckon?
Hi Martin,
I have it on good authority that the klotz ac110 also makes a very good digi coax. I intend to make some up myself for that purpose. As for how the quattro compares to the Belkins I say go for it. Its a ruddy good cable for much cheapness and I rate it highly having tried a few others. Some say the belkin is flat sounding. I am currently using their silver series Rca for coax though as my monster cables were too lively n bright.
Martin I have a Mike Homar WBT cu coax cable going spare at the moment. I bought the same item off Marco with WBT ag plugs and use that now. PM me if you are interested. :)
Yes, I saw that you got that cable - was kicking myself that I missed it. :doh:
PM sent,
Just received the Klotz cable - no sign of the RCAs though :(
If I decide to use some klotz cable for the digital interconnect, is there a min length and do I need some special connectors? :scratch:
Thanks for the PM Bernie, still mulling it over ATM.
cheers,
Rare Bird
12-02-2013, 14:08
I used to make all my Synthesizer Jack leads up with Klotz, they has a loverly soft & flexible coating to the main jacket that cuts really easy, is your wire like this?
I used to make all my Synthesizer Jack leads up with Klotz, they has a loverly soft & flexible coating to the main jacket that cuts really easy, is your wire like this?
It looks like nice quality stuff, although I wouldn't say it was particularly soft or flexible. Certainly less flexible than my VanDamme cables.
brian2957
12-02-2013, 14:49
They say 1.5m is the minimum recommended length Martin .
They say 1.5m is the minimum recommended length Martin .
Thanks Brian.
I've now made up my couple clones and I like the results. Seems to work well with the Brio-R and Dac, maintaining the smooth but punchy presentation :D
Unfortunately, I didn't order enough of the Klotz cable to make up a digital interconnect :doh: and now Bernie has sold his MIke Homar IC :doh:
Definitely not going to sell my Brio-R though :mental:
Martin I have a Rega digi interconnect made up with the Klotz cable.
Sitting in my spares bag.
1.5m I think.
Interested?
Martin I have a Rega digi interconnect made up with the Klotz cable.
Sitting in my spares bag.
1.5m I think.
Interested?
Hi Gary,
Yup, definitely interested in buying a ready made one (at the right price :eyebrows:) Funnily enough, Brian just PM'd me to say he thinks he may have a spare one too. Looks like I could be spoilt for choice!
Incidentally, what's the recommended connector for digital use? I keep reading about the need to keep the impedence to 75 ohms or the bits and bytes will come out in the wrong order :scratch: or something like that!
Cheers,
Had a look Martin, have it here if you want it.
Had a look Martin, have it here if you want it.
Cool, what sort of dosh are you looking for, inc delivery?
Cheers,
Hi, I'd also be interested in the the klotz digi cable if anyone is getting rid.
Cool, what sort of dosh are you looking for, inc delivery?
Cheers,
Dunno Martin, :scratch:
£35 delivered?
If you are looking to offload any 'Couple' ICs or clones also let me know.
Cheers
I used to stock "Rega Clone" Klotz/Neutrik Profi IC's but stopped making them due to lack of demand. I would be happy to start making these again for sale if there is sufficient demand for them or on the basis of one-off orders. Just let me know (I was charging £55 per 1m set). It doesn't make the best digi cable by the way. It may approximate to 75 Ohms but the combination of spiral shielding and deviation from 75 Ohms makes it a poor choice. you could end up utilizing a fair amount of data redundancy when transmitting digital signals. There are far better alternatives if on a budget such as the Van Damme 75 Ohm cable.
Sounds fantastic in an all Rega System though :)
Rich,
if Martin is passing on the Klotz digi cable you can have it mate.
Rich,
if Martin is passing on the Klotz digi cable you can have it mate.
Cheers Gaz, Brian and I have sorted something out
brian2957
21-02-2013, 08:42
I used to stock "Rega Clone" Klotz/Neutrik Profi IC's but stopped making them due to lack of demand. I would be happy to start making these again for sale if there is sufficient demand for them or on the basis of one-off orders. Just let me know (I was charging £55 per 1m set). It doesn't make the best digi cable by the way. It may approximate to 75 Ohms but the combination of spiral shielding and deviation from 75 Ohms makes it a poor choice. you could end up utilizing a fair amount of data redundancy when transmitting digital signals. There are far better alternatives if on a budget such as the Van Damme 75 Ohm cable.
Cracking interconnects . Even for non Rega systems . Saw off some very expensive opposition . A steal at this price .Have to disagree regarding the Klotz digital cables Paul . I was using one in my system and again it was the best of the bunch . I only stopped using it because I discovered that I preferred the Rega DAC USB input.
I used to stock "Rega Clone" Klotz/Neutrik Profi IC's but stopped making them due to lack of demand. I would be happy to start making these again for sale if there is sufficient demand for them or on the basis of one-off orders. Just let me know (I was charging £55 per 1m set). It doesn't make the best digi cable by the way. It may approximate to 75 Ohms but the combination of spiral shielding and deviation from 75 Ohms makes it a poor choice. you could end up utilizing a fair amount of data redundancy when transmitting digital signals. There are far better alternatives if on a budget such as the Van Damme 75 Ohm cable.
Now I'm totally confused :scratch:
Has anyone directly tested the klotz against the usual budget suspects, such as the Belden, van damme with canare, neutrik, wbt etc connectors?
I'd have thought that the connectors make as much difference as the cable. It seems the crimped canare connectors are hailed as the best for use on budget digital ICs. Can get canare/Belden for around £20 delivered.
I'm going for a lie down now...:scratch:
LittleTone
21-02-2013, 23:23
It doesn't make the best digi cable by the way. It may approximate to 75 Ohms but the combination of spiral shielding and deviation from 75 Ohms makes it a poor choice. you could end up utilizing a fair amount of data redundancy when transmitting digital signals.
Have to agree with Paul/reffc on this one.
As a result of reading that the Rega Clone can make a good digital cable; I tried mine, which is fitted with WBT Cu plugs ----- it sounded poor; nowhere as
good as my MG2000HG, Chord Opticord or via USB
Tony
Rega have some new interconnect and speaker wires coming. The former I have no idea about, but the Rega badged plugs look suitably posh and the wire a nice off-white and flexible too :rolleyes: The speaker cable promises to be a 4mm stranded copper, but beyond that I have little info at present.
Regarding digital interconnects and matching, this may not apply now, but there used to be a fact that many transport outputs and DAC inputs (SPDIF anyway) were anything but 75 ohm.
It doesn't make the best digi cable by the way. It may approximate to 75 Ohms but the combination of spiral shielding and deviation from 75 Ohms makes it a poor choice. you could end up utilizing a fair amount of data redundancy when transmitting digital signals.
Have to agree with Paul/reffc on this one.
As a result of reading that the Rega Clone can make a good digital cable; I tried mine, which is fitted with WBT Cu plugs ----- it sounded poor; nowhere as
good as my MG2000HG, Chord Opticord or via USB
Tony
Thanks Tony,
Funnily enough, I was considering these as an upgrade to my trusty Chord Opticord :rolleyes:
:cool:
LittleTone
22-02-2013, 11:17
For what it's worth; might be interesting to somebody.
I applied the Triode mod to my Squeezebox yesterday which converts the USB socket on the Squeezebox to an audio output which can therefor be connected to the Rega DAC's USB input.
Although there are limitations as Gazjam states earlier in this thread;
'The Rega USB input though is EXTREMELY good we found, the only snag is that it only does up to 16/48 which is not ideal if you have a lot of HD music'. If like me, most of your music is 16/44 FLAC then its worth experimenting. It's all reversable if it don't suit. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Regards
Tony
Hello Tony, apologies for hi-jacking a little. I notice you use a separate power supply to your Squeezebox. Do you find this makes a difference even though you are feeding to the Rega DAC? I ask because I use the Duet to a Rega DAC and assumed improvements would only come if the power supply was to a Touch without a separate DAC. I had, therefore, not considered changing my Duet power supply. Thanks.
LittleTone
22-02-2013, 12:46
Hi Andrew
A very good question. The only comment I will make is that after reverting back to the original SMPS after running it for a week or so, there was I felt a detriment to the SQ.
You'll really have to try it to see if it makes a difference.
Have a word with David @ MCRU
Thanks Tony. No harm done if I can get one to try, and return it if I don't hear a difference. Cheers, Andrew.
Rega have some new interconnect and speaker wires coming. The former I have no idea about, but the Rega badged plugs look suitably posh and the wire a nice off-white and flexible too :rolleyes: The speaker cable promises to be a 4mm stranded copper, but beyond that I have little info at present.
Regarding digital interconnects and matching, this may not apply now, but there used to be a fact that many transport outputs and DAC inputs (SPDIF anyway) were anything but 75 ohm.
Because I tend to take the perfectionist view, I'll offer some "perfectionist" advice:
SPDIF is not exactly 75 Ohms...that is correct. It cant be because it's based upon standard phono geometry and since the conductor spacing is critical to the impedance rating, the SPDIF are lower (54 Ohms-ish).
HOWEVER...this is over a very short distance in comparison with the length of the cable, so whilst some redundancy in theory may be taken up at the connections, each data stream usually contains sufficient redundancy for this to not matter....at all. Getting the wrong cable is a different kettle of fish. Use a cheaply made cable (many chinese imports) which can and do deviate (poor quality control and design) and just 0.25mm difference between core and shield throws out the impedance, effectibely causing drop out in data which the DAC has to try a interpolate for when reproducing the sine wave.
Whilst the output sine wave is perfectly formed, it may contain erroneous data as the result of interpolation of missing data. In extreme cases, the signal can simply drop out completely.
Short barrelled RCA connectors and a decent quality true 75Ohm cable are perfectly fine for almost perfect data transmission.
There are perfectly good budget 75 Ohm cables and the EU/uK specifications for cable manufacture mean that they cannot call a cable 75 Ohm if it isn't! Cables like the Klotxz AC110/Legrange (Rega Couple) make reasonable interconnects (There is MUCH better cable available for little more cost wise) and whilst it may approximate to 75 Ohms and work in a digital system, you may not be getting the best out of the data transfer unless a true 75 Ohm cable is used. As mentioned, spirally wound shields are not the best for two reasons:
1. Bending these cables eventually results in gaps forming in the spiral and digital cables need effective shielding, so use braided and not spiral wound shields for digital data transfer;
2. Movement of the spirally wound shield during bending can cause deviations in conductor spacing sufficient (and remember, just 0.15mm is enough!) to render the cable outside of a true 75Ohm performance.
Use a higher quality braided shield 75 ohm cable. If you want to go budget, then use an RG59/U cable available off the reel at you local DIY store. It makes better digital cable than the Klotz and is cheaper.... this for DIY applications.
If buying a good digital cable, look for a good quality 75 Ohm coax, braided shield and short bodied firm fitting RCA connectors. Job done.
I dunno Paul, nowt wrong with AC110 a bit of burning in won't cure - OOOPS! I'm not supposed to believe in this am I - the cable CAN'T be any good if it needs running in :eek:
I'll get me coat - but first, are you willing or able to suggest some better (than AC110) OEM coax cable for impoverished numpties like me to try for making up interconnects please?
...but first, are you willing or able to suggest some better (than AC110) OEM coax cable for impoverished numpties like me to try for making up interconnects please?
Just what I was thinking...;)
I dunno Paul, nowt wrong with AC110 a bit of burning in won't cure - OOOPS! I'm not supposed to believe in this am I - the cable CAN'T be any good if it needs running in :eek:
I'll get me coat - but first, are you willing or able to suggest some better (than AC110) OEM coax cable for impoverished numpties like me to try for making up interconnects please?
For making IC's on a budget it's fine David. I could suggest loads of various cables from Van Damme, studiospares, Sharkwire etc etc and all would make adequate DIY interconnects. All I was stressing in this thread was that it doesn't make the best digital cable because it simply isn't a suitable cable for that application. the alternatives on a budget would all do the job for analogue interconnects equally as well as each other. They just need to be well screened, of acceptably low capacitance if used for phono applications, and a sensible construction.
What is of greater importance to the DIY interconnect maker (and if it isn't, it ought to be!) is what connectors are used and how well they are terminated.
Contrary to popular belief there is really very little advantage in using Canare style crimp RCAs and here's for why:
1) a decent solder joint using quality solder is every bit as reliable electrically and providing that decent strain relief is afforded to the connection, then its perfectly adequate mechanically;
2) to undertake a crimped joint PROPERLY you need to buy a crimping tool and that needs to be added to the cost of buying the connectors, so it's not the cheapest alternative by any means
3) the few crimp style RCA plugs currently available in my humble view are not great quality and as with a majority of RCAs at the budget end of the range are made from materials such as brass or similar alloys, thinly plated, and with the usual sprung collars made from pressed metals with no rounded edges (so they are more prone to wear your sockets compared with better made alternatives).
Use whatever cable you like at your budget for analogue interconnects, but for best results use good quality connectors. These should fit well, be made of highly conductive materials, use quality dielectrics, be screened (ie no plastic barrels) and have decent standards of gold plating as a minimum.
The rest is up to your soldering skills and cable preparation....and patience!
The above is all in my own view and I have looked into and tested just about every commercially available RCA plug on the market at significant cost when developing my own cables. I use the connectors that I do for good reason.
If people have specific queries, then please feel free to PM me or to contact me via my website and I will only be too happy to help advise your further.
Thanks Paul, I rather misunderstood I think where analogue interconnects are concerned :)
Thanks for your insights Paul on the best choices for digital connections. There is some really valuable knowledge here and I'm inclined to agree with you that whilst the klotz cable makes an excellent choice for an connecting a Rega amp and DAC (and other components) it does not necessarily translate into the best choice for digital coax.
Based upon my own trial and error I have found the sweetest bits of wire I have used to be:
Monster Interlink - a 20 year old 1m piece of their 75ohm labelled wire which formed part of the first proper set of interconnects I bought with a separates system years ago. It is terminated with short all metal plugs which are gold plated.
Belkin Pure AV silver series - yes this a half of the famed set of budget interconnects previously discussed on here. Not quite as bright sounding as the monster interconnect but perfectly detailed and 75 ohm rated if I'm correct ( have long since discarded the packaging).
I've also borrowed one of the van damme digital cables you have mentioned from my brother in law who uses the throughout his home studio. I now see why this is a popular choice for home studio builders as it sounds very 'flat' to me... Just what he's looking for but I guess not exciting enough for HiFi, or my personal tastes.
Finally I acquired a diy coax made from klotz with gold plated connectors from Brian. (Cheers for the quick delivery by the way). I've spent the evening listening with this cable connecting my v-link to the DAC. Unfortunately I have been underwhelmed by the cable and it stands as my least favourite. This is no reflection on the maker who has done a good job .I'm putting this down to my own expectation bias and hoping that the 'synergy' effect would keep on giving as it did with my IC, mains, and speaker cable choices. Sadly this didn't materialise and I now think that the synergy stops here. The presentation was somehow less exciting, less detailed and to my ears not as clean as all of the others.. I guess I just had to know for myself and this was a cost effective way of scratching the itch.
As this thread was opened to give our insights to Rega owners I'll sum up by saying this... If its a 'flat' studio type of sound you enjoy then go for the van damme. But if this is really what you're after then there are probably other components more suited to you than Rega. If it is a more musical and interesting type of sound you are after then this can be had with the more mainstream HiFi type coax brands, and there are plenty of budget options to choose from. I suppose by not spending heaps on a particular cable you can try a few and it is definitely worth experimenting with.
@MartinH
I still have the klotz digi cable?
Interested?
Hi Gary,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
After reading the pretty negative comments by Anthony, Paul and Richard, I think I'll have to pass on this one, I'm afraid.
Cheers,
No problem Martin, hadn't read any comments, just catching up with forum stuff after a weekend at Bristol.
Agree with Rich that its best to try to hear different cables in your system, even better if you can borrow a set.
Not used the Klotz digi cable for a while, just thought I'd offer as there was some interest in it. :)
brian2957
25-02-2013, 11:39
I really liked the Klotz , but didn't have anything to compare it to . The only reason I stopped using it and sold my V-Link was because I tried , and preferred , the USB input on the DAC .
I've bought one of the Bristol mains cable kits from MCRU. This uses an ordinary IEC connector. The Rega DAC I hope to use it with uses an IEC C5 connector. Three things, I wonder why Rega designed the DAC in a way that makes it impossible to use their own upgrade power lead without resorting to an adapter? Is it possible to get a screw fit C5 connector so as to avoid using the adapter? and finally and perhaps more importantly, does the adapter defeat some of the benefits of the upgrade mains cable. Thanks.
brian2957
07-03-2013, 21:45
I tried to get plug but was unable to find one . IMO the adaptor has little or no effect and you will still get a worthwhile improvement using the Lapp cable.
Thanks Brian. P.S. I new adaptor was right but spell check made me loose my nerve and go all American. I must trust myself in future.
I meant lose, crikey the irony of it, I blame it on doing ITA at infant school.
I've bought one of the Bristol mains cable kits from MCRU. This uses an ordinary IEC connector. The Rega DAC I hope to use it with uses an IEC C5 connector. Three things, I wonder why Rega designed the DAC in a way that makes it impossible to use their own upgrade power lead without resorting to an adapter? Is it possible to get a screw fit C5 connector so as to avoid using the adapter? and finally and perhaps more importantly, does the adapter defeat some of the benefits of the upgrade mains cable. Thanks.
Yes, with the adaptor it is still an improvement (i've tried a few mains cables with it). It is however a more subtle improvement on the DAC than on the Rega amp but still worth the money. Ask Dave at MCRU if he can supply one.
As to why Rega designed it this way I can only guess that it was due to the limitations of the half size case they use rather than some conspiracy to stop people using after market cables as some have suggested.
hifi_dave
08-03-2013, 10:07
I doubt Rega have the time and inclination to dream up any conspiracy, especially when they have their own add on mains cable..:doh:
I doubt Rega have the time and inclination to dream up any conspiracy, especially when they have their own add on mains cable..:doh:
Precisely what I think Dave but it has been suggested in other places.:mental:
brian2957
08-03-2013, 15:58
Wouldn't worry too much Andrew . Just plug in and enjoy this excellent DAC :)
Wouldn't wory to much abot the speling ither mait . I new wot yu ment :lol:
Thanks all. I had not heard any of the conspiracy theories. It just struck me as odd that their own upgrade cable is not compatible with their DAC and whether they thought an upgrade here was not required or beneficial. For ten pounds and a few minutes it seems worth a go. I never considered it for the amp (Mira) but will try it after what you say RichB.
hifi_dave
08-03-2013, 19:15
There is an awful lot of crap on the www. Don't believe all you read.
It's not really "odd" that Rega's own upgrade mains cable is not compatible - they use entirely different sockets, so the upgrade cable simply doesn't fit. The present arrangement has been chosen because of space limitations. There is no "conspiracy".
There is an awful lot of crap on the www. Don't believe all you read.
It's not really "odd" that Rega's own upgrade mains cable is not compatible - they use entirely different sockets, so the upgrade cable simply doesn't fit. The present arrangement has been chosen because of space limitations. There is no "conspiracy".
exactly right :)
its a clover leaf adapter you need, I have them c £5 each
i have sold £300 mains leads fitted with the adapter to use on the rega dac and it makes a massive improvement, the £10 diy kit with an adapter works well too, a no brainer really as long as you can wire a plug!
brian2957
08-03-2013, 22:12
I've used these cables on a Rega Brio R , a Rega Dac ( with clover leaf adaptor ) , and now a music server and a valve amp . In all applications they've proved to be a significant upgrade . At this price they can't be beaten for value for money IMHO .
I've used these cables on a Rega Brio R , a Rega Dac ( with clover leaf adaptor ) , and now a music server and a valve amp . In all applications they've proved to be a significant upgrade . At this price they can't be beaten for value for money IMHO .
Well someone will have some complaint to make eventually mate :lol:
brian2957
08-03-2013, 22:21
I'm only passing on my experience mate . If I find something which is good value for money I will pass it on to forum members . As ever it's their individual choice to accept my recommendations or not . Surely at this price it's worth a punt :) Can't please everybody all of the time buddy .
Just noticed that Rega have updated the cables section of their website to include the couple 2 interconnect and the Duet speaker cable. From what I've gathered from the PFM discussion of these the interconnect again goes for around 90 quid and the speaker cable is around 15 a metre. So given the theme of this thread was budget alternatives and clones who's got the beef on these?
The new gear would have to be significantly better for me to start spending that kind of cash as the upgrade cost would be a couple of hundred. I'd rather put that towards the new Mira!
I guess most Rega dealers will be able to demo the old vs new cables quite easily, and also compare the merits and vfm of upgrading the cables vs upgrading the amp.
As said before, the Couple 2 isn't anything like the appearance of the original Klotz based one and neither does it use the Neutrik Pro plugs. Obviously a desire to rid the market of the clones we can make ourselves for £30 or so (cables and plugs at retail prices including some P&P as well).
I want to try the well liked Epiphany Acoustics interconnect, which may (or may not) make an alternative to the loved (on here) MG HD1000, which is an outstanding buy still for fifty notes or less IMO.
Well a quick update. The other week I picked up some black rhodium twist 2x5m as they were a bit of a bargain from MCRU. I've been running them in the main system for a few days and whilst I was initially impressed with the way they resolved the music and seemingly widened the sound stage I've put the Rega quattro back in. I'd have to agree with much of what Jerry said about these in his review, the hint of treble grain and overall loss of bass depth when compared to the Rega was enough to make me switch back. They are a decent cable and would suit many systems, I think they are better than the van dammes for the money and will add a bit excitement to a dull sounding system but this is a problem I don't have. So, perhaps unsurprisingly, I'd still maintain the best value cable for a Rega system is a Rega without spending TQ black money which I don't think I could ever justify for the lengths I need.
BTW, MCRU did a good deal on these and they were delivered quickly. The quality of the z-plug terminations was good and if it were based on look then they'd certainly win over my quattro with screw fit banana plugs.
Been using z plugs for years now :)
nbaptista
20-09-2014, 18:33
The speaker cable is flattish and £14.98 per mtr. 250 strands of OFC, 4 mm square section and that's it. Both cables are German made I believe but don't quote me on that.
Do you have anymore information about the Rega Duet?Is it a German cable and if so what?
hifi_dave
22-09-2014, 09:21
Nothing, other than it's custom made for Rega.
I was using silly priced Kimber Monocle XL speaker cable in my system and wondered about the Rega Duet. In it went and in it stays. Just gets out of the way of the music making. Great cable! System sounding better than ever. Of course that is for this month. :rolleyes:
hifi_dave
21-01-2018, 11:53
Rega Duet is a very good and reasonably priced cable.
Mains Cables
For the mains I settled on some homemade clones of Rega’s own high end mains cables which are apparently shipped with the flagship Osiris amplifier. All the stuff came courtesy of MCRU and rather than post links I’ll just say they were made from Lapp cable, Martin Kaiser Brass Plated IECs and MK brass plated toughplugs. Pretty straightforward construction with the braid connected at the ground pin of the plug end, used a bit wire casing and solder to connect to the earth cable and keep the job tidy. The cable ends were tinned with a little solder so the small pins got a good grip. For the DAC I use a cloverleaf IEC to C5 adaptor also supplied by MCRU.
I also tried some other homemade cables made from Black Rhodium Fusion Cable, Kaiser Silver Plated IECs and MK silver plated tough plugs. Also tried the stock Rega cables the components came with.
Would like to try a budget orientated Rega mains clone like this chap made for himself. Does anyone have one to sell or would be willing to build?
There was more to the Rega cable than just that...but Dave' s wire wasn't a million miles off. :)
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