View Full Version : GOOD widely available £500 integrated amps...
OK, I stand here with my wrists firmly slapped and with humble pie ready to eat...
On the NEW market (NOT used), what £500 integrated amp would you consider. My first choice of the Brio R is well documented, as are the reasons why I like it (plenty of dealers and after sales backup/customer care), but what else is actually out there able to do the job properly and in an involving way?
Anyone heard the current Cambridge Audio ones, or do Harman Kardon do a £500 model like a scaled down HK990? Plenty of good choice for a grand or more, but £500? NAD used to do good cheapies, the bigger ones worse if anything (sloppy music delivery) and the Chinese? Roksan Kandy k2 was a horrible powerhouse that couldn't hold a tune of it tried (not that an amp is supposed to do anything of the sort, but you lot know what I mean). What are the Chinese Audiolabs like as well as a Cyrus all alone and without add-ons?
Over to you, and hopefully there's plenty to be learned by myself as well as everyone else :)
P.S. Do perspex cased products only available mail order on ebay count?????
Spectral Morn
23-01-2013, 17:55
There won't be much I guess.
I am out of touch a little with the bottom end of the market but Cambridge Audio, NAD, Marantz, Onkyo and Rega must be the only companies making anything in and around that price, that is sold in UK dealers.
Sad days when I first became an audio enthusiast (seeking to unlock my music more) and then the trade in retail one could buy a Rotel or Nad, Marantz too amp for about £100, Wharfedale, Celestion or Goodmins speakers for about £80 and a turntable say Ariston Q Deck for £150. The dealer would throw in some cables and bobs your uncle a pretty good separates system for modest money. Now days not possible except S/H.
Have MF abandoned this sector of the market?
Arcams were a bit bland at thid price point as I remember. Any idea if current issue models are any better?
Talk Electronics used to have a good reputation and fared rather better than the cable "offshoot" that helped spawn them in the beginning.
Spectral Morn
23-01-2013, 18:02
Have MF abandoned this sector of the market?
Arcams were a bit bland at thid price point as I remember. Any idea if current issue models are any better?
Talk Electronics used to have a good reputation and fared rather better than the cable "offshoot" that helped spawn them in the beginning.
Yes MF have re amplification
Eagle owl
23-01-2013, 19:28
Save up a bit more cash and buy one of these http://shop.xtz.se/bild-ljud/xtz/forstarkare/rubrik_3
I don't own one but have read good reports on it.
Geoff.
Clothears
23-01-2013, 20:43
The new Creek 50A is out shortly at a touch over £500 (ie £550) which might fit the bill.
kenworthy100
23-01-2013, 20:44
Exposure 1010 retailing around £425
Dingdong
23-01-2013, 21:00
NVA AP20.
:ner:
If you think it's good enough?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/212450-beefing-up-nva-ap10p-amp-2.html
Phone up Glenn Croft and say: 'Glenn, mate, I've got £500 burning a hole in my back pocket and would like a basic line-only integrated valve amp. Don't care what the case looks like, so what could you build for me?'
I guarantee he could produce something to suit, and sonically, it would most likely piss all over any of the pish mentioned here - and with full service back-up, too! Widely available? Yes, because all you'd need to do is ask...! ;)
Marco.
Dingdong
23-01-2013, 22:58
If you think it's good enough?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/212450-beefing-up-nva-ap10p-amp-2.html
Okay, so that one looks as though it has been bodged up in a garage by a blind person. That's an old one though. Surely he must have figured out how to build summat proper by now. All his products can't be bodged up crap like that can they? ;)
If you think it's good enough?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/212450-beefing-up-nva-ap10p-amp-2.html
From the thread:
add to the above that there is absolutely no input filtering no input capacitor ( can be tricky ) and for every output transistor there is 470nf miller or stabilizer capacitors that between amplifier people are notorious as ...sonic killers ....
thermal run away, with poor heatsink ,no ventilation ,absence of fuse ,poor choice of output devices no thermal compensation, and higher rail voltage is a bomb construction
all family of darlingtons BDV66-67 TIP 142-147 BDW 83-84 will suffer from thermal runaway even if a proper VBE multiplier exists on the circuit if the amp is pushed ....imagine how is going to be without it
smoky regards
sakis
And there's more:
here is pictures of bigger NVA ..toasted cause the user wanted to make a ""burn in "" to his brand new speakers and he thought that was ok to keep the amplifier working with music to a modest level of 30% for a period of 24 hours .
amplifier boards completely toasted
both of main power transformers toasted ( since the amp had no fuse )
both woofers toasted
a total damage over 2.000 euro ..as about the construction i see it as a total mess with or without the telephone cables .....Obviously not a device that you are supposed to pay almost 1000 euro ...that is a ripoff
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/324/nva1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/nva1.jpg/)
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9347/nva2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/nva2.jpg/)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9388/nva3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/nva3.jpg/)
Nice and neat and safe, eh?
Oh dear! Are those 'unmentionable' prototypes, too? :lol: :lol:
RD: "It wasn't me who made those, honest guv - somebody bodged them..." Aye, and all our heads zip up at the back!!
Marco.
Okay, so that one looks as though it has been bodged up in a garage by a blind person. That's an old one though. Surely he must have figured out how to build summat proper by now. All his products can't be bodged up crap like that can they? ;)
It seems like much of the earlier output from NVA was 'knocked up' in the crudest way by someone who at that point either didn't know any better, didn't care, and/or was satisfied with the principle of 'out of sight, out of mind'! :rolleyes:
You have to remember that this was 1993, not 1973, when RD was still learning his craft, so what excuse is there for such shoddy workmanship from any experienced, commercial amplifier manufacturer? Naim gear (and the output from other high-end amplifier manufacturers then) didn't look THAT bad inside. Quite frankly, the quality of construction of these NVA amps is disgraceful.
There is no other word for it.
I've seen far better work here from many DIY-ers!! Yes, his kit is made much better now (thank fook), but that's no excuse for the existence in the public domain, in any era, of the disorderly shambles, seen above :nono:
The burning question is why wasn't the equipment he made in 1993 built to the same standard as this (part of a current MK2 A80):
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3706/nva4current.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/nva4current.jpg/)
I don't see any reason, other than apathy, why someone who is clearly capable of producing neat and tidy work, made such a mess of building this shambolic (and arguably unsafe) entity, no matter how long ago it was produced:
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9388/nva3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/nva3.jpg/)
Answers on a post card please to: 'Jim'll Fix It'.
Marco.
Dingdong
24-01-2013, 08:37
I guess that's why the panels are glued on. I'd be shocked if I opened summat up and it looked like that.
Are they still picky about cables as well?
Apparently, he glues them together because it sounds better that way! :doh: :mental: :lol:
Protection circuitry (with fuses) also appears to remain against Mr Dunn's religion, hence why what happens was described by Sakis, on the thread on DIY Audio... See post #19: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/212450-beefing-up-nva-ap10p-amp-2.html#post3028899
I wonder if his current stuff is built with even a modicum of professionalism and safety in mind? One would HOPE so, surely??
Marco.
The theory goes that since speaker cables add some inductance of their own, why place an inductor in the amp itself? Naim don't fit one on most (but not all) of their classic stuff as well. What then happens is that the onus is firmly on the end user to use the correct and recommended cables with the product if a blow-up or bonfire is to be avoided. Maybe NVA users are sensible enough to follow the correct wiring procedure, but it's a heck of a responsibility on the manufacturer to ensure that they do.
For a £500 integrated, likely to be used with all manner of dire anciliaries, I'd want it to be safe as houses and, if it fails, it goes down without taking the speakers with it!!
Do Myryad still make integrated amps? The stuff they introduced in the mid 90's was really good and harked right back to the good things an A&R A60 used to do, since both were designed by the same chap. The amps had proper short-circuit protection too, as did Audiolabs.
Dingdong
24-01-2013, 08:50
Apparently, he glues them together because it sounds better that way! :doh: :mental: :lol:
Marco.
Maybe it helps to keep the magic smoke in as well.
For a £500 integrated, likely to be used with all manner of dire anciliaries, I'd want it to be safe as houses and, if it fails, it goes down without taking the speakers with it!!
Too right, mate! Safety should be any professional amplifer manufacturer's No 1 priority. NO RISKS, in that respect, no matter how supposedly small, for the sake of optimising sound quality, should be taken. Mr Dunn appears to have a rather blasé attitude towards safety!
What then happens is that the onus is formly on the end user to use the correct and recommended cables with the product if a blow-up or bonfire is to be avoided.
Automatically expecting your average 'Joe' to comply with the above, IMO, is asking for trouble, especially when items eventually fall into the second-hand market and potentially into the hands of less experienced users.
Marco.
I hate to bring them into it here, but this is one factor why a notorious active speaker manufacturer abandoned separates a few years ago, since inappropriate use caused all manner of warranty headaches and supplying dealers weren't as indoctrinated as Linn/Naim ones used to be, and probably still are. And my gawd were we patronising - still comes out occasionally, doesn't it? :(
Given how long NVA has been trading if there was any safety risks of the sorts being suggested then they would either be out of business or have a terrible reputation for reliabilty by now. As neither is the case then I suspect the amp pictured above is possibly another (or the same) 'not for re-sale' prototypes and therefore atypical. There was another thread about this a while back and it was taken down. Rightly IMO.
No, I believe they're all like this, as our engineer confirmed a few years ago when he had one or two for service (ask hifi dave too, he has some very interesting tales to tell). Untidy wiring is one thing, but as long as nothing is overloaded in workaday use and the wires aren't touching where they shouldn't be, it's not an issue. Preferring not to use screws and aluminium cases though, when there's so much in the distortion produced to mask such fripperies/benefits? as thermal glue and plastic cases, is another matter entirely I fear.
I'll stick to me Croft thanks - the bloke's nice too ;)
No, I believe they're all like this, as our engineer confirmed a few years ago ;)
Except they're not as Marco has already posted a picture of the internals of an A80 earlier in the thread and that does look a nice and tidy professional job. I've no interest in defending RD and he is out of order with his shilling accusations but let's play fair.
To return to the OP - intergrateds around £500 -I will put a shout in for the XTZ I am currently trialing - it's 780 euros and I have no idea what that is in real money but I can tell you now it is bloody brilliant. And not underpowered like most amps are.
istari_knight
24-01-2013, 13:18
I really don't want to get involved in this but that amplifier "Sakis" is talking about is from 2011 [see post #25] not the 90's as some people have stated.
It may well be yet another prototype but judging by the internal pictures scattered over the internet its typical of the brand.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/pa264910-1.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/DSC00415.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/AP50---1.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/110.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/100_3412.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/2u4oa6a.jpg
... That lot is from page 1 of Google search.
Also worth a read if you can be arsed: http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.tforumhifi.com/t12867-nva-diego-nardi-e-gli-audioti&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.tforumhifi.com/t12867-nva-diego-nardi-e-gli-audioti%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DTsN%26tbo%3Dd%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&ei=3jEBUZvGFeWN0QHWtIGQBg&ved=0CDcQ7gEwAA
From that thread: Power supply to the outer limits, possibilities that go in swinging high end working to the limit, no outbound protection (eye to the first problem you will smoke woofers), a plate on the bottom and on top of that are not connected to ground, wiring ridiculous, components attached with glue Shocked and relative ability to repair close to zero without breaking all precisely because of the mounting of all components (with a kind of cement, attaches them to chemenefregaammé ...
Get the tester, put it in AC and controls the offset output. And if it is high value, begins to worry: there are no protections in output of any kind!
In short, Nardi talks about technique, not a feeling of listening.
PS photos of the two printed circuit boards pulled out (with great difficulty due to the strange bonding with glue) seem to be made with pen in hand Laughing Welding without even clean flux residues from the card! Do not know I had Krell and mark levinson (plus a lot of other stuff less valuable), but they were built and assembled in a professional manner, and not arraffazzonata style "installation after the first lessons of school electronic radio elettra of turin" and in any case, had protection against DC output ...
It would appear anyone that opens one of these things is to put it mildly... shocked.
In fairness, some of those pics look ok, especially the simpler ones and no worse than Glenn's finest in all honesty. It's the more complex ones at higher prices that look a bit awry from first look, although the Quad and Naim method of routing and tyeing all the wires together has its downside too, espcially when Naim tie the signal and ground wires together (signal wires screened or not)...
How many of you have tried the XTZ amp?
In fairness - Croft Micro 25 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_25.jpg
Croft Series 7 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_Series7.jpg
"Better components is less if not no components!" is the mantra I understand, and if it can be done, then go for it is what I say :)
Hi Martin,
Given how long NVA has been trading if there was any safety risks of the sorts being suggested then they would either be out of business or have a terrible reputation for reliabilty by now.
With the best will in the world, that's most likely due to the fact that NVA produce amps in relatively small quantities. Having spoken with some industry experts about this matter, in their opinion, the fact that there have been relatively few incidents of dangerous malfunction so far in NVA amps, such as those shown above, is most likely due to the relatively small amount of units currently in public circulation.
Had NVA amps been made in their tens of thousands (or more), than thousands (or less) then, in their opinion, the likelihood of incidents of electrical failure would’ve been far greater.
This is due to the law of averages and because the poor construction quality and electrical instability of the circuit of the NVA amplifiers, shown above, (caused in fault conditions by the abnormal operating conditions that can sometimes occur as a result of user error), due to the circuit's lack of in-built protection against failure, could easily lead to subsequent damage, not only of the amplifiers themselves, but to any speakers that they were connected to, as indeed has happened.
I am simply expressing the professional opinion of established audio designers and industry professionals, and putting this information into the public domain, in order for people to make up their own minds on the matter.
Marco.
In fairness - Croft Micro 25 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_25.jpg
Croft Series 7 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_Series7.jpg
"Better components is less if not no components!" is the mantra I understand, and if it can be done, then go for it is what I say :)
Indeed - and both of the above Croft designs look WAY more professionally made than what was shown inside earlier versions of NVA amps!
The current NVA designs, such as I showed a picture of earlier, appear to be much better. The question is, why couldn't RD have built ALL his kit that way from day one??
There is simply NO excuse, as I'm reliably informed that his amplifier designs are pretty basic, and so do not exactly require a knowledge of rocket science to build!! :exactly:
Marco.
Dingdong
24-01-2013, 16:04
In fairness, some of those pics look ok, especially the simpler ones and no worse than Glenn's finest in all honesty. It's the more complex ones at higher prices that look a bit awry from first look, although the Quad and Naim method of routing and tyeing all the wires together has its downside too, espcially when Naim tie the signal and ground wires together (signal wires screened or not)...
How many of you have tried the XTZ amp?
In fairness - Croft Micro 25 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_25.jpg
Croft Series 7 (from Walrus site)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/croft_Series7.jpg
"Better components is less if not no components!" is the mantra I understand, and if it can be done, then go for it is what I say :)
One too many volume controls on Croft stuff for me. I've heard the XTZ and it's excellent value for money imho. Lot of amp for yer money.
Buy your Croft in Germany, a few of them come with only one volume control :)
Croft used to do some amps with single volume controls in the Eminent era, and Marco uses a "race tuned/blueprinted" one of this generation daily. For whatever reason, Glenn is happy to use a stereo input selector, yet insists on twin volume controls for whatever reason. At least the control knobs he now uses are quite easy to align and, if i can be a8sed one day, and after my preamp has been updated, I may well invest in a nice pair of stepped attenuators, since my power amps have adjustable gain and I can use the Croft volume controls turned well up, giving ample control.
Yup, there are no dual-mono pots on my C-X. I use a DACT stereo stepped attenuator, which is remarkably accurate, sonically, as it uses surface mount resistors, which have a much shorter signal path than the conventional resistors used in other stepped attenuators, see here for info:
http://www.dact.com/html/attenuators.html
I think the one I've got was about £150.
It's interesting comparing the sound of my modded Charisma-X with that of the 25RS, as it is fundamentally the same: both amps have the recognised signature of a Croft, and the rather infectious musicality and communicative qualities, renowned of the brand, with my amp sounding weightier, more expansive and tonally sweeter, due to its use of octal valves (6SL7s), as opposed to the lighter and slightly more 'peppy' sound of the 25RS, with its ECC83/ECC99 tubes, in the line stage.
I'll go into this in more detail when I post separately on the matter elsewhere, once I've completed my comparisons.
However, the interesting thing is that with all the changes I've made to my C-X, from stock, (DACT stepper, for Alps Blue Beauty, Seiden input selector, for some unbranded item, SCR Teflon-film smoothing caps, for Ducati electrolytics, Mundorf Tubecap polypropylene-film PSU caps, for Jensen electrolytics, not to mention various expensive NOS Mullard/Sylvania and RCA tubes, for the Russian and Yugoslavian items that were in there originally, the 'voicing' of both my amp and the 25RS is remarkably similar!
Now, whilst I know that the sonic performance of my modded C-X is now vastly superior to what it was when I first got it (it sounds like a totally different beast), and so genuine upgrades have been achieved there, it's interesting that Glenn and I have ended up creating two preamps which, despite having totally different circuits and components sound so much alike, in terms of how they 'connect' the listener to the music, without creating the amusical 'hi-fi sound' often found in many of today's so-called 'high-end' designs, some of which cost many thousands of pounds.....
What's fascinating about this is that my preamp contains items that Glenn is known to HATE with a passion: namely stereo stepped attenuators and polypropylene capacitors! However, I feel certain that if he heard my preamp, next to the 25RS, he'd very quickly alter his views on both those items! This goes to prove the old adage of 'it's not what you've got, but how you use it'!! ;)
Kudos, of course, also has to go to Glenn for managing to end up with a similar sound with the 25RS, by using good quality, but distinctly non-boutique components, as I've achieved by spending rather more money on all the bits that make up my Charisma-X.
There are a few lessons to be learned there I think... :)
Marco.
Phone up Glenn Croft and say: 'Glenn, mate, I've got £500 burning a hole in my back pocket and would like a basic line-only integrated valve amp. Don't care what the case looks like, so what could you build for me?'
I guarantee he could produce something to suit, and sonically, it would most likely piss all over any of the pish mentioned here - and with full service back-up, too! Widely available? Yes, because all you'd need to do is ask...! ;)
Marco.
OK Marco, Now you've got my attention.:stalks:
I've always wanted to to try a Crofty. Tell me more.
Hi Rich,
Well, the process shouldn't be open to abuse, but aside from the equipment that Glenn produces commerically, when he has time, prior to agreement, he also builds bespoke designs to order, which *could* start from as little as £500, for a line-only integrated valve amp, in a very basic casing, from somewhere like Maplins, to the sky's the limit, if your pockets are deep enough!
Bear in mind however, that at the bottom end of that scale what you would end up would no doubt sound superb, but it would be no looker!! And even then, he'd probably only entertain doing it if he wasn't too busy making the stuff that his dealers rely on to sell.
However, he's only a phone call or an email away, so if you're interested in any of this, contact him through the Croft website and find out what is or isn't possible. One thing's for sure, Glenn is a top bloke and very approachable (unlike certain other people in the industry), so you'll always receive a polite answer, even if it is unfortunately a 'no' :)
Marco.
Marco, you checked first with Glenn this was ok?
Maybe he'd welcome the work but maybe not! :)
I've been hammered with offers to build audio servers "on the side"...they say no such thing as bad publicity, but hey....
Just sayin' dude, no offence meant.
Nope, I didn't ask him. I'm simply expressing the existence of a possibility. I know Glenn well enough to know that he'd be willing to help if he can, and if he can't, he'll give you a polite 'no'. Simples.
Therefore, there's no harm in asking! :)
One thing's for sure, if he would be willing to do it, £500 or so spent with him would result in an amplifier that would totally outperform any of the mass-produced commercial varieties!! ;)
I like to encourage people to go down the bespoke route, and own something hand-built by an artisan, and British, rather than simply buying the same old boring 'usual suspects', mass-produced in China, from the likes of Richer Sounds.
If we want to try and change the state of the current hi-fi industry, then we need to start thinking outside the box, rather than pandering to what the media tells us we should be buying and becoming nothing but sheep!
Marco.
I hear you mate and its good encouraging folk to explore alternatives.
Some Manufacturer's "think differently" too and its always good to have guys like Glenn Croft, Rega etc doing their thing giving us the choice.
Otherwise its just supermarket white bread...and who wants that? :)
I include NVA in this group by the way, they are doing their thing too and theres folk that like that.
Plenty of room for us all, its down to personal choice I guess which road we go.
A mate of mine had an AP20?
We heard a couple of amps against it (even a Mini T) and they all had good qualities when comparing them..
He uses a Brio-R now.
Yup, I getcha, Jerry. So the Brio, to his ears, was better than the AP20? Don't let RD find that out or he'll blow a fuse (which will be one more than he's ever fitted on any of his equipment)! :D
Incidentally, I won't entertain responding to the drivel he's writing on his site (to appease the sensibilities of his two sycophantic fanboys), other than to point out that I've tried quite a few of the supposedly 'superior' stepped attenuators, shown on the HFC website that he's linked to, the best of which was the Glasshouse Takman, and the DACT was demonstrably better in my Croft preamp, and agreed as such by not only me, but three other listeners present!!
So, as usual, Mr Dunn talks largely through (an ignorant) hole in his arse! :lolsign:
The fact is, DACT stepped attenuators, or indeed any other types of volume pot, perform differently, sonically, depending on the circuit they are used in, so if he doesn't like the DACTs with his amps, that's fine, but it won't be because of any 'inferiority' of the DACT, in its function as a high-quality stepped attenuator, but rather the lack of sonic synergy with the circuits he uses!!! Dear old Dicky frequently espouses the importance of synergy, when designing equipment, but then chooses to dismiss the concept when it doesn't suit his argument - priceless!! :lol:
Also the blinkered fool says: "The Dact uses inferior quality switch, it use cheap inferior quality surface mount resistors". How on earth can that be the case when the one I use costs just as much as the supposedly 'superior' stepped attenuators that he recommends??? :doh:
Let me make my position on the matter crystal clear:
There is no universally 'best' anything in audio, and that includes stepped attenuators. I use the DACT ones, and proclaim them as excellent, simply because they work very well with my preamp, and have outperformed other ones I've tried. In other applications and systems, the opposite may be true, which is why you have to suck these things and see!
I shall say no more on the matter and simply let RD continually dig himself into holes that make him look even more stupid than usual!!!
Marco.
brian2957
25-01-2013, 13:17
Marco, you checked first with Glenn this was ok?
Maybe he'd welcome the work but maybe not! :)
I've been hammered with offers to build audio servers "on the side"...they say no such thing as bad publicity, but hey....
Just sayin' dude, no offence meant.
Aye I'm sitting listening to the server you built me mate . I've been using it now for nearly a year without a glitch and it's sounding fantastic . Thanks for coming over yesterday and updating the software for me . It has been a substantial upgrade for very little outlay . My system is sounding superb as I write this. :cool:
I'm currently using the little Rega Apollo R and Dac pair, supplied by the ever helpful Dave at Radlett.
These are both amazing products and I can't understand how Rega can produce them for the money.
If the Brio R follows in the footsteps of this pair, it could be all the amp anyone would require. Rega deserve huge success with these little boxes.
Rob
hifi_dave
25-01-2013, 16:47
The Brio-R certainly does.
Put any of those products in a fancy case with chunky front panel and all the high-end jewellery and you couldd sell them for £5K a piece.
Canetoad
25-01-2013, 17:02
I'll be getting a 2nd hand Brio-R on Monday and am looking forward to having a listen to it. You guys better not be winding me up! :lol:
hifi_dave
25-01-2013, 17:23
I'll be getting a 2nd hand Brio-R on Monday and am looking forward to having a listen to it. You guys better not be winding me up! :lol:
Oooooooops
Sorry to strip her again Alex (:eyebrows:) and she's not as prim as you'd think, but this one has to be on me :lol:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Brio_R_zps8f6cd43c.jpg
Oh look - a proper amp, rather than one that was thrown together with sticky-backed plastic and squeezy bottles! :D
Marco.
julesd68
25-01-2013, 17:42
I'd certainly be interested to hear the Brio - in terms of sheer musicality my old NVA AP50 was leagues ahead of anything else I've heard in this kind of price range. Reliability was rock solid too ...
Bakeoff, what bakeoff??????
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 19:05
The one RD is constantly challenging you to!
Marco n Gaz,
I think were all on the same page as far as the quality we expect for our hard earned goes. This is why I love my all Rega system so much, it just gets better by the day and has responded brilliantly to the well thought out tweaks Gaz and I have discussed at length. (Thanks for all your advice on these mate). On its own and with bog standard cables an all Rega system is something special, with the right cable choices it becomes something outstanding.
The reason I asked about Croftys is that I do have 3 separate music systems and had always considered that one day I'd try a quality well made valvey amp in one of them (none of your explosive chinese made ebay jobbies please). All the better if that amp is made in good old blighty and the builder has some pedigree I reckons.
£500 would represent the kind of wedge I'd be prepared to pay for a new amp (as a happy Brio-R owner I know what kind of quality that much can buy so the bar is set pretty high) Hence I was curious when Mr Croft's amps were mentioned (This is a thread about £500 amps after all). That is what got my attention. Anyway I'll have to quit the tabs and cut out the drinking if I'm to afford any more gear :rolleyes:
Cheers for the advice though and if i do find myself with a spare half grand anytime soon I might just give Mr Croft a call.
Sorry to strip her again Alex (:eyebrows:) and she's not as prim as you'd think, but this one has to be on me :lol:
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Brio_R_zps8f6cd43c.jpg
Can I get a 'Hell Yeah!'
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 19:34
Have to agree about cable choices. When I took my TQ cables over to Gary's, the difference they made to his Rega system was nothing short of astonishing. I have never before or since heard a cable make such a difference in a system. I still don't understand how or why.
The one RD is constantly challenging you to!
First I've heard of it. Is he offering to send an amp with all suitable cables to hifi dave then? Happy to give it a try there.
Marco n Gaz,
I think were all on the same page as far as the quality we expect for our hard earned goes. This is why I love my all Rega system so much, it just gets better by the day and has responded brilliantly to the well thought out tweaks Gaz and I have discussed at length. (Thanks for all your advice on these mate). On its own and with bog standard cables an all Rega system is something special, with the right cable choices it becomes something outstanding.
The reason I asked about Croftys is that I do have 3 separate music systems and had always considered that one day I'd try a quality well made valvey amp in one of them (none of your explosive chinese made ebay jobbies please). All the better if that amp is made in good old blighty and the builder has some pedigree I reckons.
£500 would represent the kind of wedge I'd be prepared to pay for a new amp (as a happy Brio-R owner I know what kind of quality that much can buy so the bar is set pretty high) Hence I was curious when Mr Croft's amps were mentioned (This is a thread about £500 amps after all). That is what got my attention. Anyway I'll have to quit the tabs and cut out the drinking if I'm to afford any more gear :rolleyes:
Cheers for the advice though and if i do find myself with a spare half grand anytime soon I might just give Mr Croft a call.
You should hear the Brio with the power cable I built today for it.... :eek:
same Lapp cable, different plug and IEC...nice.
Last couple of days I've tightened everything up, fitted Crabtree switchless sockets, levelled the speakers and fitted new diy mains leads.
Rega Stuff sounding better than ever.
Rich, Brian and I all have very similar Rega systems and we've been trying out different tweaks, cables etc.
Thinking of getting our info together and posting something on here, sure it will be useful for others out there. :cool:
Have to agree about cable choices. When I took my TQ cables over to Gary's, the difference they made to his Rega system was nothing short of astonishing. I have never before or since heard a cable make such a difference in a system. I still don't understand how or why.
Aye, they're on my list. I know others rate them highly and would love to hear how they compare to the Quatro cables for myself. Adding the right mains cable and interconnect also takes this mid level combination to amazing levels of performance. (Unlike the speaker cables these were huge improvements for small money I found)
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 20:07
Well the Mogami cable Gary was using sounded good until we swapped the Black in. It sounded broken by comparison after that.
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 20:09
First I've heard of it. Is he offering to send an amp with all suitable cables to hifi dave then? Happy to give it a try there.
Dunno. Possibly. He did say he'd put his amps up against similarly priced alternatives and let a panel of peeps decide which is best.
The one RD is constantly challenging you to!
What his resident thickness from Epping doesn't seem to grasp is that shying away from comparing amps, for fear of the Rega losing (perish the thought), has got nothing to do with it :rolleyes:
Dave, or many other people for that matter, would likely rather stick pins in their eyes than share the same room as Mr Dunn, and I believe that this key factor was part of the deal. It's a bake-off, either at his place or a neutral venue, where his presence is part of the package. He's not sending any of his amps anywhere.
How he can think that all the snide remarks, insults and unjustified persecution Dave has been subjected to could be brushed under the carpet and forgotten like that, for the sake of conducting an amp bake-off, is beyond belief and ably demonstrates that Mr Dunn has no grasp of reality - that's the actual reality, not the twisted version masquerading as such inside his deluded head.
You spend time in the company of people that you like. Life's way too short to mingle with dickheads!!
Marco.
I thought you guys did well biting your tongues so long tbh.
In "real life" nobody would have gotten away with that.
No need for it, its just hifi ffs.
@Rich
Brian had the Quattro and we compared it against the TQ Black in my system.
It was very good bit not near the TQ.
As Ali said..the TQ Black with the RS3's are a bit special mate.
Get a chance to hear a set, but only when you have the spare moolah, as you'll want to buy them.
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 21:22
Aye, I still remember sitting there with this WTF expression on my face. The really annoying thing is, they make nowhere near such an improvement in my own system.
brian2957
25-01-2013, 21:32
Yup I was there that day Ali . That was a WTF moment . Sorry Rich but good as the Quattros are they are not nearly as good as the TQ blacks . I had to buy a set of TQ blacks too , to replace the Quattros. It's the only non-Rega designed cable in my system .
Aye, I still remember sitting there with this WTF expression on my face. The really annoying thing is, they make nowhere near such an improvement in my own system.
.
Could be Ali as you said that valve kit isn't as open to cable changes?
I thought you guys did well biting your tongues so long tbh.
In "real life" nobody would have gotten away with that.
Indeed, Gary. That's the thing... If you did that, you'd get a slap - and you'd f*cking deserve it!! More to the point, how can you 'switch off' the effect of all that abuse, keyboard related or not, when you meet the person responsible for it?
I certainly couldn't. I'm simply not two-faced enough!! It's easy for RD to do, as he frequently lives in cloud-cuckoo land, or as he calls it "chronicling reality" - a twisted reality that only exists in his own head and perhaps that of his sycophants, who say one thing on his 'forum', to pacify his ego, and privately think something rather different.
Marco.
cant disagree with that Marco.
I couldn't sit there and stay schtum either.
Any chance the Bake Off suggestion was an olive branch?
I seriously doubt it, Gary. The exercise would merely be for him to try and prove a point and reaffirm his beliefs! :rolleyes:
One thing's for certain, he'd be on his best behaviour, but that's simply not enough to allow the endless diatribe he's carried out against both Dave and me on his 'forum' to be brushed aside and indulge in a false exchange of pleasantries, during a bake-off in his house or anywhere else, where you'd be saying one thing to his face, out of politeness, and thinking something else entirely.
I simply couldn't do that, as the experience would be false and far from enjoyable. I'm sure that's exactly how Dave feels, and why he would avoid any such bake-off like the plague! Besides, the Rega would win ;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
25-01-2013, 23:42
.
Could be Ali as you said that valve kit isn't as open to cable changes?
That may be true for various reasons, but my system doesn't use valves currently in the amp stage, which is where the cables are connected.
anthonyTD
25-01-2013, 23:45
Hi All,
I have just read through some of this thread and cant help think that the lunatics are starting to take over the asylum again!:doh:
IMHO and experience concerning surface mount components and its circuitry, from a designers point of view' when done right it has many positives over conventional components some of the obvious being, small size' thus less prone to being affected by vibration and mechanical stresses, also, they can be made more accurate, thus much better repeatability and tolerances, last but not least, the signal path can be greatly reduced which is something that has always been dictated by the size of conventional component layout etc. Now i am not' and never would state that one technology is better than the other as far as sonics are concerned, [unlike some who have agendas to suit their own limited capabilities] as i use both types of circuitry and components in my own equipment, what i can state from experience is, when done right' each can be equally satisfying as far as sonics are concerned, i would even go as far as to say, when combining their respected strengths' they can in fact compliment each other exceptionally.
The soul series of amplifiers i designed and produced from 2002 are hybrids and thus use the best of both technologies' valve and solid state [using mostly surface mount] they went on to achieve a 7 page review, by a very respected reviewer, in one of the top HI FI mags of the day, and also gained product of the year statues in 2003.
They are still being used in reference systems around the world by people who want and appreciate the best that both types of technology have to offer.
All i am trying to say here is' don't get blinkered by certain peoples agendas trying to reinforce the reasons they stick to their limited experience in electronic design, listen to everything you can with an open mind, and then' and only then decide if what your hearing and experiencing is right or wrong.:)
Anthony,TD...
That may be true for various reasons, but my system doesn't use valves currently in the amp stage, which is where the cables are connected.
Leaving the world of glowing bottles, Ali? Never thought I'd see that happen! :eek:
Marco.
Now i am not' and never would state that one technology is better than the other as far as sonics are concerned, [unlike some who have agendas to suit their own limited capabilities]...
:lol: Whatever could you mean? Didn't you know that housing an amp in a Tupperware box and gluing it together with Pritt was the new answer to Eco-design? But of course it's done for sound quality reasons only, yes siree - nothing whatsoever to do with what's cheap and easy to churn out quickly, or to hide the dodgy internals from unsuspecting users :nono:
The soul series of amplifiers i designed and produced from 2002 are hybrids and thus use the best of both technologies' valve and solid state [using mostly surface mount] they went on to achieve a 7 page review, by a very respected reviewer, in one of the top HI FI mags of the day, and also gained product of the year statues in 2003.
They are still being used in reference systems around the world by people who want and appreciate the best that both types of technology have to offer.
All i am trying to say here is' don't get blinkered by certain people's agendas trying to reinforce the reasons they stick to their limited experience in electronic design, listen to everything you can with an open mind, and then' and only then decide if what your hearing and experiencing is right or wrong.
Spot on, mate! :clap:
Marco.
Ali Tait
26-01-2013, 00:45
Leaving the world of glowing bottles, Ali? Never thought I'd see that happen! :eek:
Marco.
Whaaaat? No. I never have left, and never will frankly. Just currently, my amps are class D. Pre is WD Pre 3, yes a valve item. Through that plays my lovely AK dac designed and built by Nick. With valve output stage.
He's busy at the mo, but I'm hoping he'll find the time to finish the design of my direct coupled valve static amps, at least before the end of the year!
But at the same time, the dac he's working on will be a bit special methinks.
One thing's for certain, he'd be on his best behaviour, but that's simply not enough to allow the endless diatribe he's carried out against both Dave and I
'Dave and me' surely Shirley?
Yes, you're of course correct, Joe. Too much vino! :D
Now amended.
Marco.
LittleTone
26-01-2013, 10:23
Rich, Brian and I all have very similar Rega systems and we've been trying out different tweaks, cables etc.
Thinking of getting our info together and posting something on here, sure it will be useful for others out there. :cool:
Yes please guys.
As another member with a complete Rega system I'd be very interested in hearing your findings and recommmendations
Regards
Tony
Thanks Anthony, ALWAYS a good voice of reason. Good and bad in all of it and a great shame your gear has to cost so much, as I'm sure many here would love it, including me.
Marco, I can't add anything to what you've already said. Glad to see there's still a small selection of NEW amps at this kind of price area, but it has been pointed out that theere's also a fair amount of great kit on the used market for around this money and it's this, that is causing the gradual annihilation of independant audio dealers. Those with long enough memories may be saddened to see that the once great (in Linn/Naim/Rega/Cedia terms) "Audio File" in Bishop's Stortford is now a Sevenoaks store, with loads of TV's in the window I'm told..
See Richards going to get a hold of a Brio-R for a listen himself?
Good man.
He admired the Brio's component count and value for money in comparison to guys like Naim, Linn etc, so hopefully he can be open minded again.
Entitled to his opinion of course, but hey I love the amp.
Fitted a new DIY mains lead with Lapp cable, Furutech Gold plug and Isotek Gold IEC.
It responded really well, sounding better than ever.
C'mon Richard, be open minded about it mate, mend some bridges!
Room for us all in 'ere.
From Richard's Forum (I'm not posting there)
Thanks Gazjam, I have always been open minded and completely honest with my listening, if something is better then it is better. I am not against Rega or that amp, if anything Rega is one of the least rip off companies that use retailer as their way to market - it is the retailers who are the rip-off merchants which is why Hi-fi Dave has to "employ" DSJR to do his shilling for him. It is the spamming and shilling I object to and has been what has been hi-lighted here. It creates an artificial market and people selling them 6 months on. A product should be left to naturally find its market, yes a few prompts from happy users are fine but not a professional shilling campaign. As for Marco he just joins in as it give him an opportunity to try and score some shots in our never ending warfare. AND as the accusations of shilling will stop when the shilling stops so the warfare with Il Duce will stop when he locked back in his hutch, and hopefully a more normal person emerges.
Please say there that if any AoS members wish to join in and listen (if we get too many we will have to have more than one session) and especially if they have the amp to save me buying one they are very welcome to attend and bring booze or such like - snacks provided. No one barred especially those that want to have a poke at me, they will provide the entertainment.
My image a AoS has been created by Marco and DSJR (and a couple of others) and they have motives to do that - reality has never been either of their strong points.
Quite Civilised response?
C'mon Richard, be open minded about it mate, mend some bridges!
Room for us all in 'ere.
Indeed... Fancy going down, Gaz? If not, it'll merely be his resident fanboys and him wanking each other off over whatever Tupperware amp he's made that has been designed to match his system, so the result is a foregone conclusion!
Incidentally, the thick short-arse, who works on the oil rigs, jam-rag or something, always makes me laugh, as he frequently writes the most incredible amount of bollocks:
For the simple reason - Any small NVA amp woulid piss all over il Duce & DSJR's shill ridden Rega Brio...
I think he's getting a little too overexcited, as first of all, I don't own a Rega Brio, and neither am I particularly bothered about the outcome of Tupperware-boy's bake-off.
I'm a bespoke-made valve amp man, so you'll excuse me if tedious little tests between budget solid-state amps hold little interest for me (;)) but I look forward to reading the prejudiced report (unless, Gaz, you go down) of said bake-off in due course!
Marco.
hifi_dave
26-01-2013, 15:38
WTF is that " hifi-dave has to "employ" DSJR " all about ???
Why am I being dragged into this ?
I've never, ever asked anyone to 'shill' for me and certainly never " employed" anyone for that purpose. Why would I, especially when there are more than enough great endorsements for most of the products I sell, on this and other forums.
Is that libellous ? Because if it is, I will be seeing my Solicitor next week.
Quite Civilised response?
No, not in the slightest. The amount of hypocrisy, lies and self-delusion there is astounding (but entirely predictable)!! :doh:
I suggest that we stop feeding the troll and leave him to the insignificance of his existence.
Marco.
Sorry Dude, sounds to me like a civilised response, albeit the personal digs at AOS members are a bit unecessary imo.
C'mon kids play nice and don't get so personal eh?
Ironic thing is that neither of you guys have even heard the Rega. :)
Cover my fuel Marco and I'll take my Brio down to the Bake-off.
I'll bring you back a biscuit, assuming Richard's not poisoned it ;)
Gaz.
Indeed... Fancy going down, Gaz? If not, it'll merely be his resident fanboys and him wanking each other off over whatever Tupperware amp he's made that has been designed to match his system, so the result is a foregone conclusion!
Incidentally, the thick short-arse, who works on the oil rigs, jam-rag or something, always makes me laugh, as he frequently writes the most incredible amount of bollocks:
I think he's getting a little too overexcited, as first of all, I don't own a Rega Brio, and neither am I particularly bothered about the outcome of Tupperware-boy's bake-off.
I'm a bespoke-made valve amp man, so you'll excuse me if tedious little tests between budget solid-state amps hold little interest for me (;)) but I look forward to reading the prejudiced report (unless, Gaz, you go down) of said bake-off in due course!
Marco.
Sorry Dude, sounds to me like a civilised response, albeit the personal digs at AOS members are a bit unecessary imo.
Not to mention, me, so how can it be civilised? Right enough, it's about as 'civilised' as you're ever likely to get from him.
Now, let's leave it there, please, as we're indulging the sad and deluded old git way more than he deserves!!
Ironic thing is that neither of you guys have even heard the Rega. :)
I've not heard it, but Snapper (David), who visited you last year, was very complimentary about every aspect of your system! :)
Also, the Rega kit that I have heard (Isis CDP and Rega DAC) have all hugely impressed me, therefore, I'd expect the Brio to offer excellent SPPV.
Marco.
anthonyTD
26-01-2013, 16:49
Thanks Anthony, ALWAYS a good voice of reason. Good and bad in all of it and a great shame your gear has to cost so much, as I'm sure many here would love it, including me.
Marco, I can't add anything to what you've already said. Glad to see there's still a small selection of NEW amps at this kind of price area, but it has been pointed out that theere's also a fair amount of great kit on the used market for around this money and it's this, that is causing the gradual annihilation of independant audio dealers. Those with long enough memories may be saddened to see that the once great (in Linn/Naim/Rega/Cedia terms) "Audio File" in Bishop's Stortford is now a Sevenoaks store, with loads of TV's in the window I'm told..
Hi Dave,
I appreciate where your coming from however,,,
The final cost issue is mainly dictated by insisting on sourcing everything here in the UK, ie; all metal work, Acrylic casework and fastenings are designed and sourced here in the UK, The transformers i use are bespoke, designed and manufactured here in the UK, Circuit boards are designed and sourced here too, infact, if it cannot be made here, it is at least sourced here, i try my best to give local companies any work i cannot do myself, however, every piece of equipment i produce is assembled and tested by me, it always has been, and that will continue for the foreseeable future.
Selling direct has obviously helped with pricing to some degree, however, unlike some, it has not made me anti-dealer, and if i did decide in the future to go down that route again, then there are still some good guys left in the trade that i would be happy to deal with, Hi Fi Dave being amongst them.
A...
julesd68
26-01-2013, 17:29
OK here is Doctor Julian's diagnosis of the situation here ... :eyebrows:
This whole NVA v Rega thing is a smoke-screen, a diversion and merely a symptom of the illness. At the end of the day, whilst a little bake-off might be quite entertaining, as we all know, it's not a case of what is "better", it's purely about what your personal preferences are. NVA and Rega have diametrically opposed "house sounds" IMO. So what is to be gained?
At the root of this are just some guys who don't get on - it's a personality clash. Nothing wrong with that, you just have to acknowledge it and move on, otherwise it's just throwing stones at each other and nothing changes.
Funny thing is, you've probably got more in common than you might think ... ;)
Well said Julian, I have been reading the musings of RD on his forum and I doubt very much if he will like the Rega sound - I love how mine sounds and I'm blissfully happy. I don't desire a bake-off as it all seems rather pointless to me and its clearly obvious my tastes differ to RD, as he doesn't enjoy the Harbeth sound either, which for me is the sound that has ended all my searching and finally allows me to just sit back and enjoy the music :)
All this willy waving leaves me a bit cold TBH, just listen to some fecking music guys and have some fun.
(love the new Avatar Julian, I think I'll pour one myself)
anthonyTD
26-01-2013, 17:52
Well said Julian, I have been reading the musings of RD on his forum and I doubt very much if he will like the Rega sound - I love how mine sounds and I'm blissfully happy. I don't desire a bake-off as it all seems rather pointless to me and its clearly obvious my tastes differ to RD, as he doesn't enjoy the Harbeth sound either, which for me is the sound that has ended all my searching and finally allows me to just sit back and enjoy the music :)
All this willy waving leaves me a bit cold TBH, just listen to some fecking music guys and have some fun.
(love the new Avatar Julian, I think I'll pour one myself)
Well said, both Julian and Tim,
Discussions like these always seem to bring out the worst in people [me included] and serves no purpose other than to bring people's attention to how badly behaved humans can be in any situation...:(
I Also think the bakeoff will serve no purpose other than that of the realization of actually being in a room with the real person who is probably nowhere near as bad a character as he comes across on his forum.
I may be wrong there though.:eyebrows:
A...
julesd68
26-01-2013, 18:08
I Also think the bakeoff will serve no purpose other than that of the realization of actually being in a room with the real person who is probably nowhere near as bad a character as he comes across on his forum.
I may be wrong there though.:eyebrows:
A...
You are not wrong at all there Anthony - I went to see Richard two or three times when I was an NVA owner and thoroughly enjoyed his company. He was very generous with his advice and time - he even set up my old PL-71 deck for nowt ...
But get him behind a computer and it's like the title sequence of "The Incredible Hulk" though!! :eek:
anthonyTD
26-01-2013, 18:10
You are not wrong at all there Anthony - I went to see Richard two or three times when I was an NVA owner and thoroughly enjoyed his company. He was very generous with his advice and time - he even set up my old PL-71 deck for nowt ...
But get him behind a computer and it's like the title sequence of "The Incredible Hulk" though!! :eek:
:lol:
What alternatives have I used to Rega amps? Well, in direct comparison with a Brio R has been a Mini-T, Croft integrated (which wasn't much different for double the cost) and 25/7 (more power and greater refinememt), various Icon models all costing more - the £2K Kt120 jobbie sounding like a grown-up Brio R, which I hope you'd take as a compliment to both, various modern Naims which gain in the bass power and "punch," are no better/worse in the mid but which are frighteningly worse (grainy/dirty) in the treble regions and of course, the numerous vintage amps which Dave has. Oh, I forgot, the Sugden A21? which sounded very different indeed (almost smothered), LFD integrated which is uber clean and clear and of course the Rega Osiris, which is, as one would expect, a gentle-giant Brio R with tons more power and a very smart and probably extremely expensive suit of clothes on.
What I think started "all this" was when Alex_UK and I first went down together to hifi Dave's for a bloody good music session, a play (in my case) with all dave's vintage stuff and a bloody good pub lunch with some nice beers to top it off. We posted numerous photos on here of the stuff we'd been playing with.. In more recent times, I've wanted to post pics and info on Dave's more recent purchases, old and new, but haven't felt able to. Such a bloody shame, when the likes of icon Audio for example, do a baby valve amp (I think still) for around £500 which, if it's anything like as carefully presented as its more costly siblings, should come in a stout box with FULL setup instructions, be solidly made and also with caring service backup in the event of a problem. I've not heard this one so cannot comment on the sound, which I expect to be lush and "valvey" in a good way, rather like a low-cost EAR or old Croft Micro/Series IV used to be.
You are not wrong at all there Anthony - I went to see Richard two or three times when I was an NVA owner and thoroughly enjoyed his company. He was very generous with his advice and time - he even set up my old PL-71 deck for nowt ...
I've heard other tales similar to that, and don't doubt them for a second, but what I don't get is why he can't be the same as that on-line, instead of the most obnoxious and intolerable prick imaginable?? :scratch:
Marco.
The more I hear about the Brio R the more I'd like to audition one in my system, any suggestions as to dealers who might be willing to offer a home audition without me having to buy one first? I would need to fund the purchase by selling the DR5 so I'd like to be sure I am making the right decision before I part company with it.
Dingdong
26-01-2013, 21:03
I'm sure I read somewhere summat about a Brio R bakeoff. You could invite them to have it at yours.
I think I may pass on that one Mark. Mind if I give you a bell dude, need some advice?
Dingdong
26-01-2013, 21:56
Go for it. Just listenin to some toons.
As an aside I took my brio-r to a mates place in Edinburgh as he was keen to hear one in his own system. We did a direct swap out with the mini-t he's been using (which was none too shabby by the way) and attached his lightly modded SL1210 and caiman to it with his normal cables (vandamme and QED for the sources, budget QED speaker cable to his monitor audio bx2). Suffice to say he was blown away by the little Rega, we had a good listen to it as it was and then I introduced my own cables, mains, speakers and ICs and his grin just got wider. Finally I ran his laptop through the v-link to the caiman with j-river as media player. I stand to gain nothing from this other letting my pal satisfy his curiosity about the supposed hype this amp has received. He made his own mind up and will be spending his next paycheck on a brio-r, a v-link and some mcru wires. I thought it might sound harsh with the monitor audios, obviously they lacked some of the warm bass of my floorstanders but was a fun, involving and non-fatiguing sound.
JazzBones
28-01-2013, 18:10
From the thread:
And there's more:
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/324/nva1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/nva1.jpg/)
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9347/nva2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/nva2.jpg/)
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9388/nva3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/827/nva3.jpg/)
Nice and neat and safe, eh?
Oh dear! Are those 'unmentionable' prototypes, too? :lol: :lol:
RD: "It wasn't me who made those, honest guv - somebody bodged them..." Aye, and all our heads zip up at the back!!
Marco.
Waiter, wheres the bolognese sauce to go with this and by the way I don't like plastic bowls ? Please remove the ciggy butts:rolleyes:
Ha - well, that excuse of an amp is certainly a dog's dinner, so I guess that a plastic bowl is appropriate! :D
Anyway, I'd better not say too much just now to upset the old man, as Dr Busta Blood Vessel is already having a 'girly strop' over yet another problem entirely of his own making:
http://hifisubjectivist.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45292
If Michael Winner were still with us, he'd be saying: "Calm down dear!!" We shouldn't laugh... Oh, go on then, you've twisted my arm....
:eyebrows: :eyebrows: :lol: :lol:
Marco.
If Michael Winner were still with us, he'd be saying: "Calm down dear!!"
.
Michael Winner's dead? When did that happen?
Here ya go, daftee:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21123532
I always found him hilarious. One of his classic quotes:
Men are ridiculous. Women are far better people. Much wiser (not difficult) and with a temperament to deal with life's complexities and men's abrasiveness. They're also far better at washing socks and darning.
And this:
A little vulgarity is a thoroughly good thing.
:lol: :respect:
Marco.
That's a shame. His films were rubbish but I always liked him.
istari_knight
28-01-2013, 20:07
:rolleyes: Every time you visit that place you give it a little more oxygen... Let it die already :lol:
chris@panteg
29-01-2013, 11:59
That's a shame. His films were rubbish but I always liked him.
Not all of em , Death Wish is a masterpiece , after watching it , I just wanted to go out and shoot someone .:mental:
Hehehe... I know that feeling well!! ;)
Marco.
JazzBones
29-01-2013, 17:13
Not all of em , Death Wish is a masterpiece , after watching it , I just wanted to go out and shoot someone .:mental:
... and did you Chris:eyebrows:?
JazzBones
29-01-2013, 17:16
Hehehe... I know that feeling well!! ;)
Marco.
Okay killer, put down your blunderbus, it has the same effect as something hitting the ceiling fan and I wouldn't want the clean up job afterwards :eyebrows:;)
chris@panteg
29-01-2013, 17:57
... and did you Chris:eyebrows:?
I couldn't hurt a fly :) I liked Michael Winner despite his crap movies .
Not all of em , Death Wish is a masterpiece , after watching it , I just wanted to go out and shoot someone .:mental:
Michael Winner?
chris@panteg
30-01-2013, 11:47
Michael Winner?
The director .
Back on topic , I've never heard a Rega Brio R , I wonder how it would compare with my Marantz pearl lite ?
I've just bought a Brio-R and it's sounding very nice indeed with my Neats :)
Got the matching DAC too, but haven't plumbed it in yet.
Cheers,
brian2957
30-01-2013, 12:01
Then you're in for a treat Martin . Have a look at the thread on cables for the Rega . They make a massive difference,
..and you dont have to spend a lot of money on wires to get the best from the Rega kit either.
I've just bought a Brio-R and it's sounding very nice indeed with my Neats :)
Got the matching DAC too, but haven't plumbed it in yet.
Cheers,
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23512
All the work is done here to save you the worry:cool:
jollyfix
30-01-2013, 13:33
I have a Rega Brio in my second system, bought new about 10 yrs ago. How much of a difference is my amp compared with the Brio R (apart from box size)?
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 14:32
Fair bit beefier and three dimensional with the usual fun factor. The Brio has always been a giant killer IMO.
If it's for your "second system" do you really need to change ?
jollyfix
30-01-2013, 14:48
Thanks Dave, no plan on a change (just yet), just wonderd how much difference there was. I have always liked my Brio, it had mixed reviews when i bought it, but for the sound, price, and with a good phono stage it was a no-brainer.
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 14:58
Just shows what worth magazine reviews are !!!
We often dragged the original Brio off the shelf to show how naff some far more expensive amps were - those amps we needed in the shop because of the magazines rave write ups..:rolleyes:
julesd68
30-01-2013, 15:02
Are you able to name and shame those amps Dave??
JazzBones
30-01-2013, 15:30
Just shows what worth magazine reviews are !!!
We often dragged the original Brio off the shelf to show how naff some far more expensive amps were - those amps we needed in the shop because of the magazines rave write ups..:rolleyes:
Dave, what would you think to the Rega Brio driving early to mid nineties Linn Kans (passive). I have my lovely Rosewood Kans, wall mounted, in my upstairs titchy small cubby hole home office. They are not hard driven by my CAS4040, I just wanted better sound than the crap speakers that came with my Dell PC. Okay, okay I know the brios are much better than the Creek but I love the little fella, which I've had since time began, and it complements my CAS3140 tuner (FM). Many years ago I heard the Kans being driven by a CB Nait 1, source was the ubiquitous LP12 of the day and I liked what I heard. I use my LP12 (modified) + Ekos for office duties as well. While you're about it, I'm sure that the Rega Brio could happily drive my SBLs, also in full active mode with a Rega pwr amp in tow, anyone tried it?
Thanks :)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23512
All the work is done here to save you the worry:cool:
Thanks for that chaps...
...using MG G1500HD IC at the moment with Belkin speaker cable.
Need to spend some time listening before making any more changes. Then, if Rega are bringing out some new cables...:doh:
My bathroom business is booming at the moment (:)), so haven't got any spare time to enjoy it :(
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 16:47
Are you able to name and shame those amps Dave??
Best not..;)
As a shop, sometimes, you need to stock some products which you don't necessarily like that much but you need them in order to sell the good products. It's not such a problem nowadays, as the mags have such little influence but a few years ago it was useful to have their raves on demo, just to prove a point.
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 16:50
Dave, what would you think to the Rega Brio driving early to mid nineties Linn Kans (passive). I have my lovely Rosewood Kans, wall mounted, in my upstairs titchy small cubby hole home office. They are not hard driven by my CAS4040, I just wanted better sound than the crap speakers that came with my Dell PC. Okay, okay I know the brios are much better than the Creek but I love the little fella, which I've had since time began, and it complements my CAS3140 tuner (FM). Many years ago I heard the Kans being driven by a CB Nait 1, source was the ubiquitous LP12 of the day and I liked what I heard. I use my LP12 (modified) + Ekos for office duties as well. While you're about it, I'm sure that the Rega Brio could happily drive my SBLs, also in full active mode with a Rega pwr amp in tow, anyone tried it?
Thanks :)
The Brio-R will work well with Kans. The full bodied, solid presentation and drive of the Brio-R will get the best out of them. IMO
Best not..;)
As a shop, sometimes, you need to stock some products which you don't necessarily like that much but you need them in order to sell the good products.
I bet a few of us could've guessed - I was a witness to a fair few dems when the little Creek 4040 was around, doing its thang against the journos' faves of the day (and giving them a right kicking in many instances). :)
chris@panteg
30-01-2013, 17:17
Audiolab 8000A and Cyrus 2 were so overated back in the 80s , not suggesting for one moment that these are connected of course , just in my opinion .
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 17:22
I bet a few of us could've guessed - I was a witness to a fair few dems when the little Creek 4040 was around, doing its thang against the journos' faves of the day. :)
That's right. The 4040 was also wheeled out to fight the giants oif the day. We sold so many of those little marvels and it definitly helped having Mike Creek living just up the road. Saturday afternoons, we would be phoning Mike to plead for another half dozen to be dropped off when he was out shopping..:lol:
Audiolab 8000A and Cyrus 2 were so overated back in the 80s , not suggesting for one moment that these are connected of course , just in my opinion .
I had a Cyrus 1 in the 80s and it was terrible. Then I got a Cambridge Audio P55 and it was (and still is) great. IMHO. Still using it 8 hrs a day at my shop :)
http://www.chelsea-bathrooms.co.uk/p55.jpg
Cheers,
Audiolab 8000A and Cyrus 2 were so overated back in the 80s , not suggesting for one moment that these are connected of course , just in my opinion .
I'd agree Chris - I for one fell into the 'Cyrus 2 trap' and took it back as I thought (quite genuinely) that it was faulty. Got a replacement one which sounded just as bad. I don't believe in describing stuff as 'shit' but the Cyrus wasn't far off.
The dealer (Peter Ellis in Newark) was a good guy so rather than have my money back he swapped the C2 for a Nytech CA252 and I was one much happier bunny. Great little amp that was. :)
That's right. The 4040 was also wheeled out to fight the giants oif the day. We sold so many of those little marvels and it definitly helped having Mike Creek living just up the road. Saturday afternoons, we would be phoning Mike to plead for another half dozen to be dropped off when he was out shopping..:lol:
Great stuff. :)
I remember a dem at the Sound Gallery in Wycombe (one of the guys from work was assembling a budget rig) and we listened to the Creek against the Cyrus One and the Arcam Alpha.
The Arcam wasn't bad - a bit cuddly and cosy but the Cyrus was, well, plain wrong. The Creek gave them both a right shoeing...and it was the cheapest. :)
julesd68
30-01-2013, 18:32
Ok boys I seem to be the only one who managed to get a half-decent result with a Cyrus 2! Never bought one but demo'd it a couple of times. Was quite impressive with the PSX power supply going into Rogers LS6 speakers which I loved at the time. Sound to me was articulate, quite bouncy with lots of energy but I couldn't accept the amount of colouration associated with all Cyrus gear at the time - there was something unnatural about the sound I couldn't put my finger on - analogue recordings felt "digital" in some way to me ...
The amp in this price range which was my clear favourite was the Musical Fidelity A1. Such a gloriously sweet and refined sound. The only reason I didn't buy one was that a dealer offered me a second-hand Albarry four box set-up for around the same price as a new A1. That's what's called a no-brainer me thinks ...
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 19:12
Aaaah, Albarry.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/hifi_dave/037.jpg
Great amps.
julesd68
30-01-2013, 19:23
Those look like minters!
I had the matching pre-amp and power supply. Only thing I didn't like were the dodgy volume pots which never got fixed properly …
Sold mine on ebay a couple of years ago to a chap in Denmark for a very healthy profit though! :eyebrows:
And from the sublime to the ridiculous - the Audiolab 8000A. I really don't know what I was thinking but in a fit of 80's nostalgia I picked one up off ebay four years ago. :doh: Needed a service, surprise surprise, and took it to a very nice Audiolab specialist near Bicester. And you know what, in his system it sounded rather good after he had worked his magic. But getting it home was another story. In my system it was horribly crude, flat and undynamic - packed it up the same day with ebay beckoning ...
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 19:27
Not quite " minters ", they are the new M608 monos.
julesd68
30-01-2013, 19:30
hmm - they haven't changed the styling one little bit ...
hifi_dave
30-01-2013, 19:31
If it ain't broke....
Aaaah, Albarry.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/hifi_dave/037.jpg
Great amps.
Look a lot of amp for sub £500.
Aaaah - Albarry. :eek:
They were at the heart of one of the finest systems I've heard in over 30 years (L-07D/Albarry/Allison Ones).
chris@panteg
30-01-2013, 20:22
Ok boys I seem to be the only one who managed to get a half-decent result with a Cyrus 2! Never bought one but demo'd it a couple of times. Was quite impressive with the PSX power supply going into Rogers LS6 speakers which I loved at the time. Sound to me was articulate, quite bouncy with lots of energy but I couldn't accept the amount of colouration associated with all Cyrus gear at the time - there was something unnatural about the sound I couldn't put my finger on - analogue recordings felt "digital" in some way to me ...
The amp in this price range which was my clear favourite was the Musical Fidelity A1. Such a gloriously sweet and refined sound. The only reason I didn't buy one was that a dealer offered me a second-hand Albarry four box set-up for around the same price as a new A1. That's what's called a no-brainer me thinks ...
I remember a guy describing the Cyrus 2 as having a chromium colouration with a very dry tone ! About right ?
Ali Tait
30-01-2013, 20:55
Look a lot of amp for sub £500.
Que? They are about 2.5k are they not?
The Grand Wazoo
30-01-2013, 20:59
Que? They are about 2.5k are they not?
Yes, but if you overlook that bit, it's nearly a £500 integrated amp.....
...............oh yeah, and the integrated bit too.
Ali Tait
30-01-2013, 21:06
I was just hoping there was somewhere selling them for £500!
I was just hoping there was somewhere selling them for £500!
Me too - I'd be beating their door down!! :eek:
I remember a guy describing the Cyrus 2 as having a chromium colouration with a very dry tone ! About right ?
Sounds about right. When I got my Cyrus 2 I had an LP12 (inc Basik Plus & Supex SM100E)/Rotel R820B into JPW P1's. Nothing earth-shattering but a nicely musical, rounded system which was great fun to listen to across a wide range of music.
The Cyrus 2 killed it. It was nasal, glassy and lacking any kind of dynamic differentiation.
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t406/hifi_dave/037.jpg
If you have these for £500 David I'll take em' :lol:
Giant Killer Amp: Qinpu A6000 MKII tube amp. Replace Chinese Tubes with 2 GE 5670 ($5.00 each) GE 5670 5 star ($25.00 ea) Western Electric 396a ($50.00 ea) or the ultimate tube: bendix 6385 (very rare: $175.00 ea) which I now use. Sound goes from very good to great to stunning. available at Amazon for $279.00 or cheaper at Ebay.
For the Beresford Bushmaster, a rechargeable battery pack, the Mili Power King 18000 mah or incredicharge 18000 mah with outlets for 9-12 v, 5 v or 16-19 v. at amazon. Hooked up to the Beresford Bushmaster using the 9-12 v outlet, there is a huge improvement in slam and dynamics.
For cd listening, I use a radioshack optimus cd 3400 as transport, powered by a Custom Dick Sequerra PS1 battery powered supply into the Bushmaster. Try these cd recordings: Reference Recordings Reference Jazz and/or the Chesky Jazz sampler and prepare to be amazed.
Our Qinpu A6000 MKII has 110 volts ac for USA. Read the highly positive reviews of this little powerhouse at Amazon.com. It is loud and fills our 20 x 20 ft family room with ease. For the silly price of less than the cost of high end interconnects, this item is a no brainer.
pros: tube swapping to a GE 5670 ($5.00 @ ebay) is a must to hear what this thing can do. Although I believe this is a hybrid unit, using tubes for it's input with a solid state output, ALL the positive virtues of tubes are there: non-fatiguing sound, large, wide soundstage, pinpoint imaging, air around instruments, well defined instruments and vocalists (you can hear deep into recording), strong tight bass.
cons: only puts out 16 wpc into 8 ohms, 25 wpc into 4 ohms. However, these are very LOUD watts. headphone socket located in the back and is always active, with or without speakers connected. Can also be used to drive a pair of powered subwoofers.
Synergistic match for the Beresford Bushmaster, which I received Jan 29, 2013 and am still breaking in; but at present sounds really good out of the box.
The Bushmaster connected to my Incredicharge 18000 mah rechargeable battery pack really slams with loads of micro and macrodynamics. Outstanding bass and treble extension. Very clean presentation.
So for the adventurous among you, Amazon also has a 30 day no questions asked return policy on the Qinpu A6000 MKII. I can state with a high degree of certaintly that the sound improvements you hear from this little amp will be so far above and beyond what you will ever get even from $1,000.00 and up interconnects. Prepare to be amazed. So the questions is? What are you waiting for?
By the way, I bought 2 of these Qinpu amps. That's how much I like them.
Rex
Reply With Quote
chris@panteg
30-01-2013, 23:02
Sounds about right. When I got my Cyrus 2 I had an LP12 (inc Basik Plus & Supex SM100E)/Rotel R820B into JPW P1's. Nothing earth-shattering but a nicely musical, rounded system which was great fun to listen to across a wide range of music.
The Cyrus 2 killed it. It was nasal, glassy and lacking any kind of dynamic differentiation.
I also had a Cyrus 2 Richard , didn't keep it that long and bought a Concordant valve set up , stayed with valves for 15 years .
Rare Bird
30-01-2013, 23:14
If you have these for £500 David I'll take em' :lol:
You've about as much chance as i have with his Michell 'Prisma' TT :lol:
I remember a guy describing the Cyrus 2 as having a chromium colouration with a very dry tone ! About right ?
Add a PSX and it becomes almost listenable..... Oh yeah, and well matched cabling at both ends :)
chris@panteg
31-01-2013, 12:16
Add a PSX and it becomes almost listenable..... Oh yeah, and well matched cabling at both ends :)
I had a PSX Dave ,it was a little better ,solid core Cyrus cable tamed it , but killed the music .
jollyfix
31-01-2013, 12:42
I bought a cyrus 2 and psx for £65.00 early 90's, from an old style TV repair/ electrical junk shop (you don't see many of those these days), I found the sound to be very digital too, but a big improvement from the laskys bought technics new class A amp i was using at the time. I sold the cyrus not long after, and bought from the same shop a sansui 990 (the big black beast). The Sansui stayed in my system for many years.
Here is a copy of a post I made in the Beresford Bushmaster forum concerning questions about the Bushmaster and Qinpu A6000 MKII tube amp.
My regular system: Qinpu A6000MKII tube amp with bendix 6385 tubes, M&K v1b and s1b subs (2) digital reference configuration, beresford bushmaster, grado sr60 and sony headphones, french made battery dac,audio alchemy dac in a box, apple ipad 3 for music streaming via pandora, miccus bluebridge bluetooth rcvr, knuconceptz 10 gauge spkr cable and krystal interconnects, radio shack optimus cd 3400 as transport powered by custom dick sequerra battery power supply. for movies: sony ps3, creative labs DDTs 5.1 decoder, Klipsch 5.1 spkrs.
My reference system: Apogee Diva speakers, Nakamichi Dragon Cassette deck, Audire Forte amp for Hsu subs (2), Perreaux preamp, tuner and 500 wpc amp capable of 5000 peaks when pushed, kimber cable rca and interconnects. sony ps3, logitech z5500 for movies. Modded Pioneer PL 1000 with Straight Line Tracking Tonearm. Heavily modded electronic x-overs for Apogee Divas and Hsu subs.
Above is a listing of my current equipment.
My regular system, when purchased new, cost me approx $2,500.00.
My reference system cost me approx $30,000.00, about the price of a BMW sports sedan at that time.
Victor was right. My wife is not thoroughly aware of all the brand of equipment I use and its functions. That was me talking. However, she is highly aware of the high cost and expenditures involved this crazy equipment upgrade adventure I have been on since 1975; starting from Japanese brands such sansui, pioneer, kenwood, marantz, teac, akai, to u.s. brands like marantz,bose, dbx, etc... to my current configurations as listed above. My apologies to brands I have long forgotten during this upgrade process.
My reference system gives me the following: 3d Pinpoint imaging so good you can tell the height of the various performers, even their distance from the main microphones. Soundstage so wide and so deep, it appears to go beyond the confines of my living room, sometimes 30 feet out into the street. Sounds even seem to emanate behind me, depending on the recordings. Accurately reproduces all kinds of music, from Jazz to rock to soul, even hiphop. Badly recorded or canned music will be revealed, warts and all. The Apogee Divas are considered to be one of the Best Speakers in the world, even to this date. Stereophile, The Absolute sound, other hi-end mags all agree, and so do I. Extremely difficult to drive, wimpy, underpowered amps need not apply. Hence, it is powered by a 150 lb. 2 man lift, Perreaux Amp with a minimum of 500 wpc capable of 5,000 wpc peaks when pushed. The Nakamichi Dragon, renowned as the best cassette deck in the world, is so dynamic and clean sounding, so free from hiss, and other analog foibles, that the sound seems to emanate from a well recorded and decoded digital source.
My regular system, started life as an attempt of mine, to get into video 5.1 sound reproduction. Tired of the ever increasing cost of High End components, and their ever miniscule improvements vs cost increases, I decided to venture into modestly priced but good performing audio equipment. See the current prices on high end equipment lately: $150,000.00 on a Dan D'Agostino amp, Speakers costing $20,000.00 and up. This madness had to stop. I had to get off this train. My only regret was passing up on Audio Note Speakers and Cary Single Ended 300B monoblock amps which a dealer was willing to sell to me for cheap, but alas, my wife finally put her foot down, said no, and that was that. And so ended my audio adventure for the time being. So, yes, my wife may not know all the brands and functions of my various pieces of equipment, but she is well aware of the cost and ever increasing piles of audio gear, no matter how hard I try to hide them from her (don't we all do this).
Compared to my reference system, my regular system gives me very good to excellent imaging, pinpoint at times, depending on recordings, wide but not so deep soundstage, accurate reproduction of various kinds of music, non-fatiguing sound, good to great micro and macro dynamics, loudness and slam; I can still tell the difference between well recorded and badly done recordings, foot tapping tempo and pace, and overall enjoyment of the music. Overall, I judge my regular system to get me to about 80% of my reference system, which I consider extremely good, especially considering the price differential of these 2 systems.
Currently,I am always on the lookout, for reasonably priced, excellent performing gear, but don't tell my wife that.
Enter the Qinpu A6000 MK II: As stated in my previous posts, this little amp gave me, lots of musical enjoyment, for its obviously ridiculous low price. High End performance, this good, for so cheap, is an understatement. for those who fawn, and ooh and aah, at the latest, overrated and overpriced, power plugs, muti-thousand dollar cables and interconnects, this baby will forever, change your perception, of what sanely priced, good music is all about. Transformative, maybe. Epiphany, maybe. Only you and your ears can decide. Mine have. (Be sure to read the reviews on Amazon.com from audiophiles and non-audiophiles alike, and form your own conclusions).
Enter the Beresford Bushmaster: I purchased the Bushmaster, based on the great and sometimes not so great reviews (there will always be detractors), here on the AOS Forums. Sanely priced, I decided to give this one a go. Here's what I found:
Great sound out of the box; no digital nasties; smooth, non-fatiguing sound. Wide reasonably deep soundstage, palpable 3d imaging, excellent reproduction of musical timbres, great slam and pace (my dog jumped out of the couch on one cut of the reference jazz recordings), good micro and macro dynamics, great musicality, enables me to hear into the recordings, instruments sound live and real in Jazz at the pawnshop cd; I could go on and on, but to my ears, Stanley Beresford, has achieved a minor, if not major, miracle with this unit, considering its extremely affordable price. Nuff said.
For those of similar minds, like me, who are tired, of the non-stop, ever increasing costs, but extremely miniscule improvements, in sound quality of our hobby, the Qinpu A6000 MKII and the Beresford Bushmaster, are components, that are so great sounding, that I daresay, have destroyed the myth, that to get great sound, you have to have an inexhaustible bank account or a trust fund. Dare I say that for me, these two components, have accurately defined, what this hobby, for me, is all about. High end sound, sanely priced for the common man. Keep the music keep playing.
rex
Good Amazon reviews here...
http://www.amazon.com/Qinpu-A-6000-Integrated-Headphone-Amplifier/product-reviews/B0057OI448/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_btm?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
All that remains is to find a Qinpu which is set up for the UK... :scratch:
Availability of the Qinpu A6000 MK II tube amp:
states AOS forum member MartinT: available at ebay, UK for 152 Pounds.
states AOS forum member Mr.Ian: available at Taoboa, UK for 92Pounds.
Both comments made at the Beresford banter AOS forums. I am not familiar with the ebay, UK or Taoboa merchants as I am located in California, USA.
However, I believe, that if contacted, the Ebay sellers probably would have one with power supplies made for UK. Happy hunting.
rex
Ali Tait
01-02-2013, 09:55
Problem is the same as with a lot of Chinese gear, it is rated for 220v, not enough for UK mains.
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