View Full Version : Bardo
wiicrackpot
23-01-2013, 02:44
Anyone heard the Brinkmann Bardo?, it's been lurking on the back of my mind for a wee while,
considering how much the SP10 mk3 fetches now and what it takes to bring the 1210 to listenable levels,
thinking a 2nd hand or ex-demo Bardo would be way to go if you want to go ultimate DD route,
so views someone who has heard it much appreciated. :)
Hi Andy,
A good friend of mine bought it a few months ago; complete package with the 9.6 tonearm and cartridge (I believe it's called the Pi ?) - running through Nagra amplification.
Simply put, I think it's one of the best decks I've ever heard in my life. Uber quiet, outstanding across the board and in every respect and revoltingly musical to boot. It was so phenomenally good it sucked. Badly.
Can't make a comparison with your current rig - but I seriously doubt you'd be disappointed. It's one of those decks that makes the argument "would a significant outlay in money result in an equal or greater improvement in sound" rather moot. It will.
Bottom line, if you can find one at a good price go for it. Don't think twice.
Have heard it few times at the demos of one familiar dealer here in Finland. Some years ago that replaced the previous demo deck he used SME 20 and he has been extremely happy. And have to echo previous comment that the sound is also remarkable. Somehow there is same DD-magic present than with SP10 but with a modern twist. If you only have a change to audit one go for it.
wiicrackpot
23-01-2013, 09:43
John ~ Thanks for that, seemingly the arm is based on a Breuer, seem for me the best route as prices for some of those Jap Uber decks are getting silly, been scouring German Ebay and classifieds but no joy so far, i will have to sell big time and pool together the funds, if i buy it will be as a package with the Brinkmann arm.
Mika ~ Thanks for the endorsement also, i do want one and got to have it sooner or later. :eyebrows:
With the Rønt II tube power supply for the Bardo this deck should be rocking:
http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=roent&lang=en
wiicrackpot
23-01-2013, 12:04
With the Rønt II tube power supply for the Bardo this deck should be rocking:
http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=roent&lang=en
:wow: is that a sexy PSU or what, didn't know anything about it, thanks Jost. :)
Audioman
23-01-2013, 14:29
I would think a used one will be a rarity. Not common and probably a keeper if you can afford the asking price. That PS looks interesting,
wiicrackpot
23-01-2013, 18:57
I would think a used one will be a rarity. Not common and probably a keeper if you can afford the asking price. That PS looks interesting,
Your are right Paul, been quietly keeping tabs on the off chance one comes up within range,
there's probably dozens like me waiting to pounce when one does show up, i mentioned keeping tabs on the German market,
it's worthwhile keeping a keen eye on eastern european countries like Slovenia etc..where prices might just dip a bit more.
tube power supply
A tube power supply to deliver 25V DC...
Euhm... Great...
Gentlemen, this is the 21st century, let sand devices do what they're good at.
There's no place for tubes in low voltage regulators.
(never was, never will be)
pure sound
25-01-2013, 10:25
Needs Tungar bulbs really, as are popular for running old field coil drivers such as Western Electric!
Needs Tungar bulbs really
:lol: Placed above the TT, it would be nicely lit.
Anyone heard the Brinkmann Bardo?, it's been lurking on the back of my mind for a wee while,
considering how much the SP10 mk3 fetches now and what it takes to bring the 1210 to listenable levels,
thinking a 2nd hand or ex-demo Bardo would be way to go if you want to go ultimate DD route,
so views someone who has heard it much appreciated. :)
No not heard it, but have heard The Inspire Monarch for around the same dosh, amazing deck, finding a secondhand Bardo maybe a challenge, but you have a nice choice there:).
wiicrackpot
26-01-2013, 18:14
No not heard it, but have heard The Inspire Monarch for around the same dosh, amazing deck, finding a secondhand Bardo maybe a challenge, but you have a nice choice there:).
Never knew such a beast existed until i googled it, :eek: i thought gor a minute it was the lenco 75 based project you were referring to.
Never knew such a beast existed until i googled it, :eek: i thought gor a minute it was the lenco 75 based project you were referring to.
No, are you referring to the Inspire Idler, l have heard both and the Monarch trounced it, if l should win the lottery this probably the motor unit l would buy, sounds amazing:), British designed too ( well some it anyway):lol:
jagdesign
27-01-2013, 00:41
If I could afford the Brinkmann, I wouldn't even be looking at the Inspire.
If I could afford the Brinkmann, I wouldn't even be looking at the Inspire.
:popcorn:
jagdesign
27-01-2013, 19:05
Ok, perhaps a little rash : )
I just much prefer the engineering approach taken with the Brinkmann. The Inspire strikes me as something I'd try and have a go at myself. I doubt I'll be designing my own DD motor unit any time soon though...
wiicrackpot
27-01-2013, 19:35
No, are you referring to the Inspire Idler, l have heard both and the Monarch trounced it, if l should win the lottery this probably the motor unit l would buy, sounds amazing:), British designed too ( well some it anyway):lol:
Yes Andy, it was the idler i was referring to and i thought the Monarch was it,
thats a turn up for the books eh, Lenco fanboys regulary reports they trounce everything.
Ok, perhaps a little rash : )
I just much prefer the engineering approach taken with the Brinkmann. The Inspire strikes me as something I'd try and have a go at myself. I doubt I'll be designing my own DD motor unit any time soon though...
James, thats what attracts me to the brand although the Inspire range always look tasty,
much as i want to but the Brinkmann remains a pipe dream i'm afraid.
sq225917
27-01-2013, 21:39
A Brinkman or a second hand 1210 in a new plinth. Not much of a contest there really.
Anyone heard the Brinkmann Bardo?, it's been lurking on the back of my mind for a wee while,
considering how much the SP10 mk3 fetches now and what it takes to bring the 1210 to listenable levels,
thinking a 2nd hand or ex-demo Bardo would be way to go if you want to go ultimate DD route,
so views someone who has heard it much appreciated. :)
Hi Andy,
Personally, I wouldn't bother, as a friend's Brinkmann Oasis was duly trounced by my modded Techy. He sold the Oasis two days after he heard it against my 1210. I wasn't too impressed by the Brinkmann. It certainly looked stunning, but sounded distinctly ponderous and musically un-involving, so I couldn't imagine the Bardo (the model down from the Oasis) being any better.
The question I'd have to ask you is how much dosh can you afford to spend on a T/T all in one hit, and what sort of sound are you after? Once I know that, I can give you some suitable reccos! :)
Marco.
If I could afford the Brinkmann, I wouldn't even be looking at the Inspire.
Lol... Maybe you're being influenced a little too much by looks and/or reputation? Actually, knowing what the Inspire is about, and having heard the Brinkmann Oasis, sonically, I'd expect the Inspire to win against either Brinkmann D/D (Bardo or Oasis) - and by some margin ;)
Marco.
Hi Andy,
A good friend of mine bought it a few months ago; complete package with the 9.6 tonearm and cartridge (I believe it's called the Pi ?) - running through Nagra amplification.
Simply put, I think it's one of the best decks I've ever heard in my life. Uber quiet, outstanding across the board and in every respect and revoltingly musical to boot. It was so phenomenally good it sucked.
Wow... John, either our tastes differ completely, or it's a system synergy thing, as what I heard from the Bardo's bigger brother, in my friend's system (Vitus preamp and Class A Vitus monos/Allnic phono stage/Naim DBLs, heavily modified, with new crossovers), was NOTHING like you describe! :eek:
Or maybe my modded Techy was just too good and made the Brinkmann sound broken? ;)
Marco.
Rare Bird
27-01-2013, 23:13
I initially thought this thread was about Brigitte Bardot, since it aint i'll pass :eyebrows:
wiicrackpot
28-01-2013, 04:06
Hi Andy,
Personally, I wouldn't bother, as a friend's Brinkmann Oasis was duly trounced by my modded Techy. He sold the Oasis two days after he heard it against my 1210. I wasn't too impressed by the Brinkmann. It certainly looked stunning, but sounded distinctly ponderous and musically un-involving, so I couldn't imagine the Bardo (the model down from the Oasis) being any better.
The question I'd have to ask you is how much dosh can you afford to spend on a T/T all in one hit, and what sort of sound are you after? Once I know that, I can give you some suitable reccos! :)
Marco.
Marco,
Nothing much floats my boat anymore,there are only a handful of TT's i'd like to hear,
Brinkmann, Kuzma, Nottingham Analogue, La Platine Verdier and ahem...SME,
as yet i've never heard a 1210 modded or standard form so have probably dimissed it prematurely,
but think i'd rather have a SP10 before it though.
Not about to drop a wedge on any TT's just now but it was to garner some info incase one does rear it's ugly head and a drop down price. :)
I initially thought this thread was about Brigitte Bardot, since it aint i'll pass :eyebrows:
:D sorry to disappoint you André.
Wow... John, either our tastes differ completely, or it's a system synergy thing, as what I heard from the Bardo's bigger brother, in my friend's system (Vitus preamp and Class A Vitus monos/Allnic phono stage/Naim DBLs, heavily modified, with new crossovers), was NOTHING like you describe! :eek:
Or maybe my modded Techy was just too good and made the Brinkmann sound broken? ;)
Marco.
Hey Marco,
That's interesting; I guess tastes will always differ and system synergy is obviously important (he uses Nagra amplification through Kharma speakers) - but may I ask what your impressions were?
PS: Come on, you know that your Techy IS that good!:lol:
I not heard the Bardo but know the LaGrange quite well, I would describe the LaGrange as a souped up Orbe ....nought wrong with that apart from the money I would expect a lot more drive
Marco,
Nothing much floats my boat anymore,there are only a handful of TT's i'd like to hear,
Brinkmann, Kuzma, Nottingham Analogue, La Platine Verdier and ahem...SME,
as yet i've never heard a 1210 modded or standard form so have probably dimissed it prematurely,
but think i'd rather have a SP10 before it though.
If you want, next time I pop up to Glesga, I'll bring the Techy with me to your place, and you can decide whether or not it was wise to dismiss it...... ;)
Marco.
Hey Marco,
That's interesting; I guess tastes will always differ and system synergy is obviously important (he uses Nagra amplification through Kharma speakers) - but may I ask what your impressions were?
PS: Come on, you know that your Techy IS that good!:lol:
Lol... Did you miss my post #20? I can go into more detail if you want? :)
I like to test my Techy frequently against 'proper' high-end T/Ts, to find out whether I'm kidding myself on or not as to how good it is. Let's just say that results so far show that I appear to be living firmly in the land of reality...! ;)
Marco.
wiicrackpot
28-01-2013, 08:25
If you want, next time I pop up to Glesga, I'll bring the Techy with me to your place, and you can decide whether or not it was wise to dismiss it...... ;)
Marco.
Marco, thanks for the offer, i'd love to take up your offer but i am ashamed of having anyone up here, :( beside the pig sty i live in,
it's a rough depressing scheme, your car wouldn't be safe outside for a minute, i had my lowly Fiesta smashed up after 1 week ownership and now having to park somewhere further away near a supermarket, i will get to hear it as i intend to attend a bakeoff/show sometime if it's near enough. :)
I sometimes listens more with my eyes than i should, apart from the last minutae of performance, pride of ownership comes into it with me. :doh:
purite audio
28-01-2013, 09:40
Difficult to compare unless you have the same arm and cart on both tables running through the same system , for a Direct Drive the Bardos platter is easily stopped, very little torque.
I use a couple of Monarchs here and they are excellent, personally I wouldn't go back to a belt drive.
Keith.
Had the opportunity to listen to the Bardo at my local dealers for quite a lengthy session a couple of months ago. I know this environment quite well, probably as well as most of my hifi-nutter-friends systems.
All i can say is that it is well worth the effort to source a dealer which can demo it for you.
Listened to it in it's "kit" form with the 9.6 arm and the Pi-cart. Amplification was VTL Pre 5.5, using the built in RIAA, and their ST150 power, speakers were Wilson Sasha's.
Everything from Sibelius to Metallica to New Order's old classic Blue Monday 45rpm 12" was played, and it demolished the digital source, Wadia 861 (?) CD player, in almost every aspect of music reproduction...
If money were more aplenty, it'd be one of my first contenders for analog playback.
Regards //Mike
I not heard the Bardo but know the LaGrange quite well, I would describe the LaGrange as a souped up Orbe ....nought wrong with that apart from the money I would expect a lot more drive
Hmm. I would say drive is its strongest point. Sounds nothing like an orbe.
This is an interesting thread in that opinion could not be more divided - there is absolutely no common ground between the opinions expressed!
I've heard a Bardo a few times (and a couple of other Brinkmann decks), but only at shows and partnered with equipment I'm not really familiar with.
However, if I was considering a DD deck of this nature I would certainly want to check out the competition - the DD that Guy at PureSound imports (has a proper suspension too) and the Monaco Audio that Keith now imports (though that is significantly more expensive than either). The Inspire is literally a Technics 1210 in a new plinth - if that costs as much as a Bardo Inspire are being exceedingly optimistic!
Hi Mark,
Unfortunately, most so-called 'high-end' turntables I hear these days largely flatter to deceive and are a huge disappointment! That was certainly the case with the Brinkmann. The Monaco, however, I suspect may be an exception to the rule.
I'd certainly love to put my own T/T up against it, just to see how close it gets.... Perhaps Keith would allow such a comparison when he takes delivery of the Monaco?
Marco.
That would be an interesting comparison - I'm not sure there is a lot in it for Keith though.
As you say though, I agree that a lot of 'high ticket' turntables are disappointing in terms of sound quality.
Well I have heard various Brinkmanns at various shows. A few times with an Orpheus (which I own) or Orpheus L.
I like the looks and engineering. I won't be buying one on the basis of sound. They seem a bit dead and lifeless to me.
Mind you I have to admit I'm really not an avid record spinner these days. I definitely prefer digital.
"Dead and lifeless" is perhaps a little OTT, but certainly what I heard with the Oasis was along those lines, and deeply disappointing. My Techy annihilated it, as did the Systemdek 3D Signature, belonging to the same owner.
I think a lot of people are swayed by looks and brand reputation, and get a warm glow through the pride of ownership of something 'reassuringly expensive'.
Each to his or her own, I guess, but for me hi-fi equipment (including turntables) are simply tools with which to reproduce music to the highest possible standard - and so if it takes a 'race-tuned DJ deck' to achieve that at substantial, but considerably less cost than a 'real high-end turntable', then so be it!! ;)
Marco.
Lol... Maybe you're being influenced a little too much by looks and/or reputation? Actually, knowing what the Inspire is about, and having heard the Brinkmann Oasis, sonically, I'd expect the Inspire to win against either Brinkmann D/D (Bardo or Oasis) - and by some margin ;)
Marco.
Only having heard the Monarch, that would be my last T/T it is that good, Techie bits/ motor withstanding and looks good too:cool:
I have listened to Bardo/10.5/Clearaudio and Oasis/SMEV/Koetsu recently in unfamiliar systems. I thought they were probably the best turntables I had ever heard. However, I was not able to do a/b comparisons with other turntables. To give some context, I have fairly recently listened to Linn Klimax SE, TW Raven, Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace, a mid-range Avid, WT Amadeus and Simplex et cetera. At home I have Garrard 301, 1210/MikeNewBearing/TimestepHEPSU, Amadeus, Sondek, and Technics SL10/EPC305. My favourite is Garrard, because it has voodoo qualities when it comes to bass and rhythm, but if I could afford a Brinkmann I would jump right in.
Hi Richard,
Nice to see you popping in again - hope you are well :)
I think what's obvious with the Brinkmann thing is that opinions will vary (are indeed they have) depending on the system the T/Ts in question were auditioned in, like you say whether you were able to A/B your own T/T directly against the Bardo or Oasis, and perhaps most importantly of all, what you're used to hearing from you're own T/T; i.e. one's available benchmark.
In that respect, I was able to directly compare my own T/T against the Brinkmann Oasis (which one would expect is better than a Bardo) in the same system, in order that the former ('front end', as it were) was the only variable, and as such came to the conclusion that I did: in effect, that my Technics SL-1210, at its particular level of modification then (and I should point out that at the time of said comparison, my T/T was not at the level it is at now) was sonically, fundamentally superior - a fact also confirmed by the owner of the Oasis, who actually sold it the following day.
That was an eye-opener for me, and ably demonstrated just what is possible from judiciously modifying these so-called 'DJ decks'! ;)
Based on that experience, I would not be tempted to buy a Brinkmann.
Marco.
Yes, there are lots of open questions. One deck can lose a shoot-out one day because it is not optimally set up, and win the next because it is. But I will say this: I try to assess turntables by listening for speed accuracy in the form of tunefulness, conviction in bass notes, and general drive. I found the Brinkmanns superb in this regard, whereas the Raven wasn't utterly convincing and the Klimax SE is mostly about detail. I haven't heard a heavy platter 1210, but so far my 1210 is on a level with Amadeus in regard of musical drive. The Garrard is something special, and I'm planning an a/b comparison with a friend's Brinkmann Oasis soon. At this level I think it comes down to personal taste rather than winners and losers.
As always, what Richard said in his last paragraph, horses for courses.:)
Yes, there are lots of open questions. One deck can lose a shoot-out one day because it is not optimally set up, and win the next because it is.
Totally agree.
But I will say this: I try to assess turntables by listening for speed accuracy in the form of tunefulness, conviction in bass notes, and general drive. I found the Brinkmanns superb in this regard...
Lol - whereas I found the exact opposite with the Oasis, using similar judgement criteria! Perhaps it was a duff model? Dunno, but drive and attack was precisely what it was lacking, sounding distinctly 'limp', dynamically inept and musically uninteresting, next to my Techy.
I haven't heard a heavy platter 1210, but so far my 1210 is on a level with Amadeus in regard of musical drive. The Garrard is something special...
Good idlers are special and excel in certain areas that no direct or belt-drive turntable can compete with.
You don't need to hear a 1210 with a heavy platter (personally I don't like heavy platters or weights), just one with a better platter than the stock item, preferably fitted with an MN bearing and one of the better off-board PSUs, which are currently available.
Do that, whilst fitting the arm and cartridge of your choice, and you end up with one hell of turntable.
...and I'm planning an a/b comparison with a friend's Brinkmann Oasis soon. At this level I think it comes down to personal taste rather than winners and losers.
Absolutely. It'll be interesting finding out how that comparison goes and what you think of the Oasis, so please do let us know :)
Marco.
At this level I think it comes down to personal taste rather than winners and losers.
I think that's true at any level. All this 'winners and losers' stuff is the bane of subjectivist hifi.
...I was able to directly compare my own T/T against the Brinkmann Oasis (which one would expect is better than a Bardo)...
I'm pretty sure the Bardo and the Oasis are the same turntable - just that the Oasis is presented in a more traditional plinth.
Ah, if that's the case then I've also heard the Bardo :)
Marco.
"Dead and lifeless" is perhaps a little OTT, but certainly what I heard with the Oasis was along those lines, and deeply disappointing. My Techy annihilated it, as did the Systemdek 3D Signature, belonging to the same owner.
Well I did say a bit dead and lifeless, and I guess it depends on how you quantify "a bit".
TBH though, all TTs are resonate systems, with that resonance picked up by the cartridge. They just all happen to resonate in different ways.
The simple question you need to ask yourself is do I like they way it sounds (i.e. do I think I like the way this particular flawed resonate system deilvers its sonics?) and is made. If it turns out to be expensive, tough luck!:)
Decoupling yourself from price and brand expectations is pretty bloody hard to do. Personally, though, I don't want a piece of cheaply made sh*te even if it sounds amazing. I want great build quality and sonics. That'll never be cheap. But given a good set of compromises, reasonable results at reasonable prices given clever designs should be achievable - and in fact are. There are some good designs out there.
I agree that, In the end it is a matter of taste, there is no 'ultimate' bit of kit, never can be. We have different tastes.However the fascination with speed stability can be misleading. Good speed stability is indeed a necessary feature of a great deck . But there is another necessary feature, arguably every bit as vital. That is the ability of the deck to reject vibration..which must colour the sound because the whole purpose of the deck is to monitor tiny vibrations in the stylus. A deck is a movement sensing device....any surplus vibration is a problem every bit as significant as small variations in absolute speed.
The old argument was that you couldn't have both...a decent suspension compromised speed stability. But that is simply untrue. Good belt drive decks measure as well as good dd and idler wheel decks. But decks such as the big Basis, Linn and SME, have superb isolation and superb stability.
Decks which consist of lumps of well-machined metal do not offer good isolation. Mass alone never can. Yet such decks cost as much. Something very wrong here.
I agree that, In the end it is a matter of taste, there is no 'ultimate' bit of kit, never can be. We have different tastes.However the fascination with speed stability can be misleading. Good speed stability is indeed a necessary feature of a great deck . But there is another necessary feature, arguably every bit as vital. That is the ability of the deck to reject vibration..which must colour the sound because the whole purpose of the deck is to monitor tiny vibrations in the stylus. A deck is a movement sensing device....any surplus vibration is a problem every bit as significant as small variations in absolute speed.
The old argument was that you couldn't have both...a decent suspension compromised speed stability. But that is simply untrue. Good belt drive decks measure as well as good dd and idler wheel decks. But decks such as the big Basis, Linn and SME, have superb isolation and superb stability.
Decks which consist of lumps of well-machined metal do not offer good isolation. Mass alone never can. Yet such decks cost as much. Something very wrong here.
I'm not sure I swallow all this. If you want a really excellent suspension for any heavyish deck, buy a stiff board/slab of some kind and sit it on squash balls, lots of them if the deck is heavy. I firmly now believe that putting a set of springs in between the motor and the platter is a disastrous idea, whether you do it the Roksan way, the Vilchur way, or any other. It just can't work. The physics isn't even right. SME exonerates itself by heavily damping the sub-chassis with some kind of paddle system, as I understand it, but otherwise that wandering sub-chassis design is very poor engineering. To deliver power reliably, the motor must be pretty much fixed relative to the platter. The right time for motor energy to reach the platter is now, not later. The best thing you can do with a Vilchur design is short circuit the suspension and learn to love motor noise if your deck suffers from it. At least instruments will stay in tune that way. The first time I listened to a Technics at home, the scales fell from my eyes. Speed stability matters most. Detail, timbre, 'air', 'soundstage' and all that stuff are just icing on the cake. Speed stability is what makes music possible. Any deck with suspect speed stability isn't a contender.
Measured speed stability is a smokescreen too. Hardly anybody tests speed stability accurately during the playback of actual music on a record. Test discs, are nothing like music, and they do not produce the same kinds of resonant behaviour in turntable systems. Real speed stability measurements should be done optically while playing really dynamic music. Don't hold your breath for such rigorous tests, because the people with the engineering means to do such tests don't want to.
Finally, mass. There is no better weapon in the turntable designer's arsenal. All modern successful turntables use mass very carefully. Mass is a proven way to reduce resonance. Don't knock it.
Marco, don't forget that one of my Techies is Timestep HE and Mike New bearing, and I was using my Ekos II on it. No slouch. I've an inkling of what they can do, and I rate them very highly. I would like to pit my souped Techie against my friend's Oasis. Perhaps I'll have to take three turntables to that session!
I'm not sure I swallow all this. If you want a really excellent suspension for any heavyish deck, buy a stiff board/slab of some kind and sit it on squash balls, lots of them if the deck is heavy. I firmly now believe that putting a set of springs in between the motor and the platter is a disastrous idea, whether you do it the Roksan way, the Vilchur way, or any other. It just can't work. The physics isn't even right. SME exonerates itself by heavily damping the sub-chassis with some kind of paddle system, as I understand it, but otherwise that wandering sub-chassis design is very poor engineering. To deliver power reliably, the motor must be pretty much fixed relative to the platter. The right time for motor energy to reach the platter is now, not later. The best thing you can do with a Vilchur design is short circuit the suspension and learn to love motor noise if your deck suffers from it. At least instruments will stay in tune that way. The first time I listened to a Technics at home, the scales fell from my eyes. Speed stability matters most. Detail, timbre, 'air', 'soundstage' and all that stuff are just icing on the cake. Speed stability is what makes music possible. Any deck with suspect speed stability isn't a contender.
Measured speed stability is a smokescreen too. Hardly anybody tests speed stability accurately during the playback of actual music on a record. Test discs, are nothing like music, and they do not produce the same kinds of resonant behaviour in turntable systems. Real speed stability measurements should be done optically while playing really dynamic music. Don't hold your breath for such rigorous tests, because the people with the engineering means to do such tests don't want to.
Finally, mass. There is no better weapon in the turntable designer's arsenal. All modern successful turntables use mass very carefully. Mass is a proven way to reduce resonance. Don't knock it.
Not sure if I should contest this or just leave it for Pinky (Richard):)
but one easy solution is the one pink triangle adopted with the anniversary and mount everything directly onto the sub chassis
simples
pure sound
13-12-2013, 23:27
PT weren't the first to mount a motor on the subchassis. Fons & STD had done it many years earlier. Goldmund were also making a suspended Direct Drive 30+ years ago.
...but one easy solution is the one pink triangle adopted with the anniversary and mount everything directly onto the sub chassis
simples
Yes, that is a much better design for speed stability: on the standard Vilchur type of deck, the smaller and lighter the sub-chassis, the more readily it will be deflected by the sideways pull of the belt (F=ma). Putting the motor on the sub-chassis solves that problem, but the small light sub-chassis still is far from optimal at absorbing motor noise.
You can use special materials for the sub-chassis, and try to obstruct the noise path, and use the quietest motor you can find, but all other things being equal, a heavy sub-chassis should be stiffer, less noisy, and will cope with footfall much better.
What can you do about the sub-chassis reaction to changes in belt tension? On a Vilchur type deck the sub-chassis must remain very light, as the suspension isn't built for anything much heavier. IMO a much better design is a suspended massive chassis with the motor held in a very limited locus relative to platter. Then all you need to perfect is the belt, motor, motor mount, and noise path obstruction.
Marco,
Nothing much floats my boat anymore,there are only a handful of TT's i'd like to hear,
Brinkmann, Kuzma, Nottingham Analogue, La Platine Verdier and ahem...SME,
as yet i've never heard a 1210 modded or standard form so have probably dimissed it prematurely,
but think i'd rather have a SP10 before it though.
Not about to drop a wedge on any TT's just now but it was to garner some info incase one does rear it's ugly head and a drop down price. :)
:D sorry to disappoint you André.
Andy your welcome to come and have a listen to my 1200, it doesn't have a new platter or expensive PSU but it does have an external PSU and a few other mods including MS tonearm.
Tony
pure sound
14-12-2013, 16:03
What can you do about the sub-chassis reaction to changes in belt tension? On a Vilchur type deck the sub-chassis must remain very light, as the suspension isn't built for anything much heavier. IMO a much better design is a suspended massive chassis with the motor held in a very limited locus relative to platter. Then all you need to perfect is the belt, motor, motor mount, and noise path obstruction.
Well you can also incorporate a contrary motor so that there is no tendency for either motor to pull the suspended part around.
What can you do about the sub-chassis reaction to changes in belt tension? On a Vilchur type deck the sub-chassis must remain very light, as the suspension isn't built for anything much heavier. IMO a much better design is a suspended massive chassis with the motor held in a very limited locus relative to platter. Then all you need to perfect is the belt, motor, motor mount, and noise path obstruction.
Yes i.m sure that could be made to work, I find the problem with using mass is that it is a never ending path as in a massy deck requires a massy support that needs nice contact to a dense solid floor preferably concrete ,
Paul
In my opinion, whilst superficially compelling, I think that there is a lot of assumptive theorising and over simplification being applied.
Yes i.m sure that could be made to work, I find the problem with using mass is that it is a never ending path as in a massy deck requires a massy support that needs nice contact to a dense solid floor preferably concrete ,
Paul
A few Kg of deck on a few squash balls on a stable surface seems to work well, even on a bad springy wooden floor like mine. Bugger-all footfall and feedback problems here. No need for special supports IME.
In my opinion, whilst superficially compelling, I think that there is a lot of assumptive theorising and over simplification being applied.
That's life ;-)
Well, that's life in the world of the hi-fi forum I agree.
I really meant "that's life" ;-)
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