View Full Version : Wobbly platter
Got my first Technics deck today and fitted my Jelco SA-250 arm. Really surprised at how good it is considering it has had no mods done yet apart from the Isonoe feet that the seller included. If it can only get better from here on then I am very pleased.
However, every record appears slightly warped on this deck when I know for a fact that none of them are. I can't make out if the platter is slightly wonky? Is this common with these decks? I vaguely recall somebody else mentioning something like this during my research, but have so many pages bookmarked that I can't find it now.
Frankyc2003
22-01-2013, 14:10
I am so glad you like your new deck! As you say, from there it can only get better...
One quick idea re. wobbly platter...
Are you using the rubber mat that comes standard with the Technics?
Maybe a record clamp or a weight could help there.
Otherwise, remove the rubber thing and replace it with felt or anything else.
And get the 1st upgrade: a good mat like the funk or the SDS..!
Just an idea!
:cool:
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 14:24
Take the platter off. Make sure the mounting surfaces are clean and gently put it back on.
Check that the top surface of the platter is running straight without a record on. If it isn't then maybe check that the bearing has been screwed down flat.
A good mat and a record weight will help this as suggested. I use the Oyaide mat and Furutech Monza record weight.
Hi Francois, I am using a felt mat that I removed from my Lenco so I don't think it is that.
Mark, did as you said and tightened up the bearing screws, but no difference.
The arm is actually moving up and down and side to side on every revolution of a record. I am starting to think that the platter is in fact slightly warped or is this slight movement normal?
Anyone else have any ideas? I am really not very happy about this as the deck is not in the 9/10 cosmetic condition that the seller described. I was willing to overlook that had it functioned well, but it seems that it doesn't.
Any advice welcome.
Regards,
Frank
chris@panteg
22-01-2013, 15:21
Can you take a couple of photo's ? Do you have a small spirit level of some sort ?
Is the platter sat down on the spindle properly?
Try lifting it off and re seating it again. Check for run out without the mat fitted to the platter and use something other than the arm to check it. Maybe a matchbox on the base to the side of the platter with a pencil across the top so you can see any change in platter height........or something similar?
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 15:40
There will always be some very slight up down and side to side motion when an arm/cart traces the groves but it will vary from record to record. However this motion is only very slight and nothing too dramatic unless the record is warped or the center hole is off.
Frankly its hard to judge without being there and seeing in person.
Make sure the tt is 100% level when a spirit level is placed on the plinth all parts. If the platter is badly out re being level then there is an issue. Re-seating it as has been suggested will sort out any issues usually but the other potential problem is the bearing not being level or damaged. Make sure the bearing is sitting nice and tight/flat to the bottom plate before tightening the screws and tighten them gently by doing all three one after the other but evenly, so don't tighten one fully then the next etc as this does not mean they are all tightened the same.
Then try the platter on the bearing again with no mat. There should be no up down motion, look side on at the platter, with your eyes level to its top. You should be able to see any movement easily if its out.
Adding a mat that perhaps has a center hole too tight to the spindle means it might ride up and down a bit if its a hard mat - it won't be sitting flush -, if soft then it should not do this.
Not sure what else to suggest.
A video taken side on would help.
Regards Neil
Rare Bird
22-01-2013, 15:43
Thats right neil, i always thought their was a slight wobble anyway.
Take the platter of & just sit an acrylic mat on, run it at the fastest speed see of it still wobbles, i doubt it will.
Even if the bearing isn't seated exactly square in the bearing well, it won't cause the platter to rise and fall at its edge when turning. Think about it - hold a bike wheel by its spindle and then spin the wheel - it will run 'true' at whatever angle the spindle is held at. Now, if the spindle is bent the wheel will rise and fall.
The same rules will of course apply for the turntable platter.
Saying that, all the 1210's I've owned have had a tiny amount of movement at their platters' edge - a way to check is place a pile of coins sat on the plinth close to the platter's edge, with the top one pushed across the bottom edge of the platter, without touching it.
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 16:01
Thats right neil, i always thought their was a slight wobble anyway.
Take the platter of & just sit an acrylic mat on, run it at the fastest speed see of it still wobbles, i doubt it will.
If you take the platter off it won't run.
Don't worry about what it does when a record is on. Take the record and mat off and check if the top edge of the platter is going up and down. If it is not then your problem lies elsewhere.
It's the first thing you need to do before looking for other problems.
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 16:37
Even if the bearing isn't seated exactly square in the bearing well, it won't cause the platter to rise and fall at its edge when turning. Think about it - hold a bike wheel by its spindle and then spin the wheel - it will run 'true' at whatever angle the spindle is held at. Now, if the spindle is bent the wheel will rise and fall.
The same rules will of course apply for the turntable platter.
Saying that, all the 1210's I've owned have had a tiny amount of movement at their platters' edge - a way to check is place a pile of coins sat on the plinth close to the platter's edge, with the top one pushed across the bottom edge of the platter, without touching it.
When fitting a Mike New platter there was up down motion because it wasn't seated right, however a touch of vasoline and a few more attempts and it ran true. So the platter not being true is a possibility I think.
Sorry for the lack of response guys, I just had to take a break from it all. Will have another stab at it all tomorrow if I have regained some enthusiasm by then.
I had this problem with my Techie, turned out there was significant play in the bearing assembly. I solved it by sourcing a used but decent bearing off ebay, cost me under a tenner . Remove the platter carefully, grab the top of the spindle between thumb and forefinger, try to move it from side to side. If it is a good bearing there should be hardly any play. Platters can warp if mistreated, however you generally only find warped platters on Techies which have had a very hard life.
New bearing here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNICS-MOTOR-SHAFT-CENTRE-BEARING-SL1210-SL1200-GENUINE-NEW-PART-MK2-MK3-MK5-/261007537658?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item3cc542f5fa) for £27 all bar a penny, free postage too.
A used bearing here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNICS-SL1210-1210-1200-MK2-MK3-MOTOR-SHAFT-SPINDLE-/230913074165?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item35c37de3f5) for just under a tenner plus £2.50 p&p if you want to take a punt. The seller has excellent feedback so might be worth a go ;)
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 17:21
I had this problem with my Techie, turned out there was significant play in the bearing assembly. I solved it by sourcing another bearing off ebay, cost me under a tenner . Remove the platter carefully, grab the top of the spindle between thumb and forefinger, try to move it from side to side. If it is a good bearing there should be hardly any play. Platters can warp if mistreated, however you generally only find warped platters on Techies which have had a very hard life.
I think the previous owner of yours must have kicked it around a bit as he thought it was a load of crap. ;)
I think the previous owner of yours must have kicked it around a bit as he thought it was a load of crap. ;)
:lol: To be honest Mark it wasn't a major problem and only cost £6.99 to put right ;)
walpurgis
22-01-2013, 17:34
The platters on Technics TTs are not the heftiest of castings. Should you find that it is warped, then check ebay and you'll find a replacement sooner or later. New ones are about £100 though. A second hand item should be about £30.
Rare Bird
22-01-2013, 20:51
If you take the platter off it won't run.
:D
Audioman
22-01-2013, 21:11
Is this an ex DJ deck? I would assume that it has been mishandled if it is. If it's in good cosmetic shape it will be worth the cost of replacement parts otherwise I would have a go at the seller. Frankly if this is an ebay purchase start a dispute and get your money back !
Unfortunately, it isn't an ebay purchase, it was a private sale from another forum. As I stated earlier he described it as a 9/10 cosmetically, it is far from it in my opinion. The photos didn't look too bad so I, maybe mistakenly, thought that it had been treated well and had not been mishandled. It is definitely an out of shape platter. Not sure what to do tbh. Seriously pissed off.
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 21:40
Does the top of the platter rise and fall as it turns?
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 21:44
Unfortunately, it isn't an ebay purchase, it was a private sale from another forum. As I stated earlier he described it as a 9/10 cosmetically, it is far from it in my opinion. The photos didn't look too bad so I, maybe mistakenly, thought that it had been treated well and had not been mishandled. It is definitely an out of shape platter. Not sure what to do tbh. Seriously pissed off.
Contact him and tell him so would be a start. I hate this sort of thing where people don't describe stuff accurately.
Does the top of the platter rise and fall as it turns?
yes it does
Contact him and tell him so would be a start. I hate this sort of thing where people don't describe stuff accurately.
I did earlier in the day, he replied offering to go halves with me if I chose to buy another platter from ebay. I cannot bring myself to have any further contact at present as I am SO angry.
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 21:55
Was it shipped with the platter on?
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 22:04
Mark,
yes it was
Ahhhhhh not good. The mounting hole in the platter could be damaged or the bearing. My approach would be to tell him he packed it incorrectly hence it arrived damaged and you want your money back.
Regards Neil
walpurgis
22-01-2013, 22:07
Ah, there you go. No TT should be shipped with the platter in situ. No doubt it got a 'clonk' on the way! His fault.
I'd try and establish if its the platter or bearing before you go rushing into any purchase. There have been a few suggestions earlier on in the thread that should help to establish the root cause. It's possible it got damaged in transport and is not necessarily the sellers fault although as pointed out, it shouldn't really have been shipped in situ. Try to calm down and work through suggestions methodically. I very much doubt it's going to write the turntable off. If you really must, try a replacement bearing 1st. It's cheaper than a platter.
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 22:20
Frankly I think mido should not have to repair or fix this, the chap who sold it to him should accept his stupidity re not packing it right, take it back and refund the cost of the unit. That is the only fair, right and honourable thing to do.
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 22:22
Mark,
yes it was
Then it is more likely to be your bearing that is a bit off and not the platter.
The thing is this is all fixable at little cost. If the seller has offered to stump up the cash for any replacement parts that are needed then so be it. Let's not get forget it is a secondhand item and not everyone is clued up on how to pack a record deck properly. Jeez, call out the mafia and have him bumped off, he's a menace to society... :lol:
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 22:42
The thing is this is all fixable at little cost. If the seller has offered to stump up the cash for any replacement parts that are needed then so be it. Let's not get forget it is a secondhand item and not everyone is clued up on how to pack a record deck properly. Jeez, call out the mafia and have him bumped off, he's a menace to society... :lol:
Hi Dave
I actually take a pretty hard line on this sort of thing. Being frank if you don't know about the stuff you are selling or how to pack it properly - to arrive in one piece still working - then you should not be selling it simples. mido bought an item in good faith S/H or not and it looks like it has arrived damaged. In my view he should not have to do anything of the sort re fixing it whether the seller pays or not. There are issues re the cosmetic description too.
Personally this sort of shoddy selling should not be tolerated period.
Regards Neil
Regardless of what may or may not have happened in transit the seller stated in the advert that the deck had been used sparingly and rated it a 9 out of 10. This is not an honest description IMO.
scotty67
22-01-2013, 22:55
Hi Dave
I actually take a pretty hard line on this sort of thing. Being frank if you don't know about the stuff you are selling or how to pack it properly - to arrive in one piece still working - then you should not be selling it simples. mido bought an item in good faith S/H or not and it looks like it has arrived damaged. In my view he should not have to do anything of the sort re fixing it whether the seller pays or not. There are issues re the cosmetic description too.
Personally this sort of shoddy selling should not be tolerated period.
Regards Neil
Even dealers can be guilty of poor packaging. A friend has recently bought a
2nd hand Rega tt from a well known dealer. It arrived with a damaged arm clip and dud cartridge. There was no attempt to protect the arm or cart! Unbelievable. I think he just didn't care as it was a 'budget' deck. Neither of us will use him in the future.
I suppose the motto is once you find a good dealer - stick with him!
Spectral Morn
22-01-2013, 22:58
Even dealers can be guilty of poor packaging. A friend has recently bought a
2nd hand Rega tt from a well known dealer. It arrived with a damaged arm clip and dud cartridge. There was no attempt to protect the arm or cart! Unbelievable. I think he just didn't care as it was a 'budget' deck. Neither of us will use him in the future.
I suppose the motto is once you find a good dealer - stick with him!
In that case you had redress legally via a small claims court if the dealer did not sort it out.
My view doesn't discriminate re private seller or so called professional dealers.
If there are cosmetic issues that you don't feel are conducive with the description then it's your call Frank, in the end you need to be happy with what you have bought.
I can only speak from my own perspective where I bought my SL1210 from a mate and I was lucky enough to have heard it before I bought it. After a few days at my place it became apparent that the bearing was shot. I spoke to him about it and he gave me a couple of spare spindles to try but neither solved the problem. I spotted a secondhand bearing for £6.99 + £2 p&p on ebay which was offered by a seller with excellent feedback. I took a chance and I am glad I did. Not only has it completely solved the issue but I learned a bit about the Techie in the process of fitting it :cool:
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 23:10
If there are cosmetic issues that you don't feel are conducive with the description then it's your call Frank, in the end you need to be happy with what you have bought.
I can only speak from my own perspective where I bought my SL1210 from a mate and I was lucky enough to have heard it before I bought it. After a few days at my place it became apparent that the bearing was shot. I spoke to him about it and he gave me a couple of spare spindles to try but neither solved the problem. I spotted a secondhand bearing for £6.99 + £2 p&p on ebay which was offered by a seller with excellent feedback. I took a chance and I am glad I did. Not only has it completely solved the issue but I learned a bit about the Techie in the process of fitting it :cool:
Sounds like your seller was a right b'stard Dave. How's yer power supply doin'? ;)
Not at all Mark, my point is it was a used deck and frankly there's always a chance that somet ain't gonna to be quite right when one buys used, it comes with the territory. For a minimal outlay I got me a nice and tight bearing and I learned a wee bit about the deck on the way and that's priceless as far as I'm concerned. The PS, as you well know, is sweet as a nut :ner: :)
Dingdong
22-01-2013, 23:30
Just messin' with ya. It ran as flat as you like in the short time I had it.
But the bearing is not the most substantial thing I've ever seen.
Nope it isn't, which is why I didn't run off and cry about it when I discovered it had a bit of a wobble. I've heard there's this Aussie fella who makes a solid replacement bearing which, unlike the standard item, ain't made of chocolate... :lol:
Hi Dave
I actually take a pretty hard line on this sort of thing. Being frank if you don't know about the stuff you are selling or how to pack it properly - to arrive in one piece still working - then you should not be selling it simples. mido bought an item in good faith S/H or not and it looks like it has arrived damaged. In my view he should not have to do anything of the sort re fixing it whether the seller pays or not. There are issues re the cosmetic description too.
Personally this sort of shoddy selling should not be tolerated period.
+1. Neil is spot on. Furthermore, Techy platters running 'out of true', even from new, was a recognised phenomenon, hence why the issue was frequently addressed by those who had the wherewithal to do so, i.e. those with access to engineering facilities.
In that respect, Dave, I actually think you're being a little bit unkind to Frank - and the 'sarky' comments, mate, aren't helping either.
Marco.
which is why I didn't run off and cry about it when I discovered it had a bit of a wobble.
nice, thanks for that !!
Just messin' with ya. It ran as flat as you like in the short time I had it.
But the bearing is not the most substantial thing I've ever seen.
Indeed... Why do you think the Mike New one offers such a fundamental sonic improvement? ;)
Marco.
Forget the Mike New bearing one for a minute, no matter how good it is for the several hundred quid you spend on one, and let's look at the stock items...
Firstly, how many thousands do you want to spend on this deck? I mean, a MN platter and his, or the Funk platter, will set you back well over a grand..
Marco's already said what I was going to mention about platters that may be slightly warped. I don't know what the techie platter is composed of exactly, but aluminium alloys can warp if not "rested" long enough between machining operations and although the old 'uns I sold had flat platter tops on the whole, the strobe markings on some could be a bit awry.
As for the bearing, I believe the solid brass? sleeve that the spindle runs in should be fine for normal use as long as it's kept lubricated. As we all know the dubious history of some of these decks, I can well imagine that some bearings will suffer, since I don't think the sleeve is a sintered, oil retaining type. This is where Vantage Audio should hopefully come in again, for modest cost updates on these decks.
As for mats, I really wouldn't recommend a felt type on this deck. The Techie mat adds much needed extra damping to the platter and a cheap upgrade could be a cork type ON TOP OF the Techie one, which may clean up the bass a bit possibly, without you spending a fortune.
Makes you wish you'd kept the Lenco, although the bearings on these can be wobbly - easily fixed with new sleeves?????
Contact the seller and ask for a partial refund since the TT had some damage. Then call Vantage Audio and get some information on how to proceed with the repair. They should know how to fix it and indicate a price.
http://vantageaudio.com/info/sp10acc.htm
nice, thanks for that !!
That wasn't aimed at you Frank, you have bigger fish to fry by the sound of it. Mark is a mate and I bought my SL1210 from him, we were just joshing with each other. No offence intended :eyebrows:
Oh, I misunderstood.
Having read back through my posts I now realise they may have seemed a little tactless, please accept my apologies. I gave up ciggies four days ago and it is affecting my head in interesting ways... ;)
walpurgis
23-01-2013, 10:17
Ah, you too eh Dave.
Has your eyesight gone funny and have you lost the ability to concentrate on anything and are you feeling twitchy and jittery? It actually makes me feel unwell not smoking!
Just been through all that for a couple of weeks. Ended up having a fag to calm myself.
Doesn't hurt (much) to knock it on the head for a few days every now and then.
Dingdong
23-01-2013, 10:31
Ah, you too eh Dave.
Has your eyesight gone funny and have you lost the ability to concentrate on anything and are you feeling twitchy and jittery? It actually makes me feel unwell not smoking!
Just been through all that for a couple of weeks. Ended up having a fag to calm myself.
Doesn't hurt (much) to knock it on the head for a few days every now and then.
Those symptoms just sound like you've been wanking too much. :lol:
The only other thing I could possibly suggest it to take the platter off rotate it a bit and put it back on again. I'm not completely convinced abouth the quality of the tapered spindle and the seating face of the platter.
Trying a bit to get it sat right may help, and it'd only take a minute.
Ah, you too eh Dave.
Has your eyesight gone funny and have you lost the ability to concentrate on anything and are you feeling twitchy and jittery? It actually makes me feel unwell not smoking!
Just been through all that for a couple of weeks. Ended up having a fag to calm myself.
Doesn't hurt (much) to knock it on the head for a few days every now and then.
All that and more Geoff. I am not going to buckle though, my health has suffered a lot from the evil weed, plus we feel a bit hypocritical asking the kids to economise when we have been spending nearly £50 a week on cigs :eyebrows:
I understand Dave. Stick with it. As an ex-smoker I can tell you that it is hard at first, but after a while you rarely even think about it anymore. And that time comes quite quickly actually, just a few months. The problem is that in the early stages of withdrawal it feels like that time will never come. Now, some 2 years on, and probably from about the 1 year mark, I never, ever think about smoking. In fact, the thought of it makes me feel quite queasy.
All the best,
Frank
Cheers for the support Frank, it is much appreciated ;)
We are both absolutely determined to see it through. We have armed ourselves with patches, bucket loads of Mints and a couple of electronic ciggies so we are ready for the trenches... hehe
Hey Frank, what's the TARDIS doing on the business end of your tonearm?
:lol: I never noticed the resemblance before, but now that you've pointed it out, it's uncanny!! :lol:
Canetoad
23-01-2013, 15:27
Brilliant Dave! :lol:
About 3 years ago I went from 20+ a day to zero! Was a change in my daily process that helped me (well falling off the bike and being off work for 6 weeks!!) kick it. Sometimes I think I'm still grumpy as a result although I really actually cannot stand smoking anymore.
SO with respect to this TT......there's no point cutting your nose to spite your face. If its just not up to the description then try to return for a refund. If its something that can be sorted easily enough, then the could actually be the best option. I'm sure there are people here who would check the platter or bearing on their own deck. You say the seller offered half towards a replacement platter. What does that equate to? IS that half of a new one? if so, you could go down the 2nd hand route and maybe get something else nice for the deck? Better headshell? feet?
To coin a phrase I hate...you are where you are. All I'm saying is yes its a right pain and yes you would feel better if it had been perfect but, there is no reason you cant come out of this relatively unscathed if not quids in.......Its all character building I'd say :)
btw, as I've suggested it, I'd gladly run the bearing and platter on my own techie for you to prove whats at fault and video the results and post them here. At least you'd know what needs fixing :)
SO with respect to this TT......there's no point cutting your nose to spite your face. If its just not up to the description then try to return for a refund. If its something that can be sorted easily enough, then the could actually be the best option. I'm sure there are people here who would check the platter or bearing on their own deck. You say the seller offered half towards a replacement platter. What does that equate to? IS that half of a new one? if so, you could go down the 2nd hand route and maybe get something else nice for the deck? Better headshell? feet?
To coin a phrase I hate...you are where you are. All I'm saying is yes its a right pain and yes you would feel better if it had been perfect but, there is no reason you cant come out of this relatively unscathed if not quids in.......Its all character building I'd say :)
Thank you, I have been coming around to this way of thinking. At the end of the day it's only a bloody turntable after all, I have far bigger concerns in my life at present, as I am sure we all have.
I am going to make the most of the situation. The TT isn't completely buggered and I was, in fact, quite pleased with the noises it was making yesterday.
I will turn this situation around and hope to, very shortly, be posting some pics and outlining my experiences with regards to the mods that my mate has planned.
Thanks to everyone for their input and support.
Frank
:lol: I never noticed the resemblance before, but now that you've pointed it out, it's uncanny!! :lol:
hiFaDIgKVI4
:D
Spectral Morn
23-01-2013, 18:22
As we are going down a DR who road now I think this is cool :D
PdrqdW4Miao
He plays the theme using Tesla Coils + band
walpurgis
23-01-2013, 23:43
Those symptoms just sound like you've been wanking too much. :lol:
Cheeky git!
I'm thinking I may start a 'Giving up Smoking' thread' (under Abstract Chat), rather than invade this thread.
I'll have to make the commitment first. I don't have the mindset today (yes, chicken, I know).
How about a 'giving up wanking thread'... What side-effects should one expect? :eek:
Marco.
Dingdong
24-01-2013, 14:39
Cheeky git!
I'm thinking I may start a 'Giving up Smoking' thread' (under Abstract Chat), rather than invade this thread.
I'll have to make the commitment first. I don't have the mindset today (yes, chicken, I know).
:D
I must try giving up smoking at some point. No plans to give up wanking though. One of the few pleasures I get.
prestonchipfryer
24-01-2013, 16:29
How about a 'giving up wanking thread'... What side-effects should one expect? :eek:
Marco.
Well, for a start, too much wanking makes you blind. Also hairs might grow on the palms of your hands (especially if you are ambidextrous), AND the risk of deafness in later life. :lol:
Not side-effects as such but disconcerting.
"What hairs!?, speak up, where are you?"
walpurgis
24-01-2013, 19:32
How about a 'giving up wanking thread'... What side-effects should one expect? :eek:
Marco.
Well, if she cuts down on giving wanks, she'll have to expect more shagging!
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