Retip + compliance change

[OneyedK]

Hello,

I'm using Stanton 681SE carts.
The SE needle is no longer available.
Is it possible to retip a 6800EE needle and alter the suspension to match the compliance of an SE?
(I'm asking this here, because the contact form on NWA works, but doesn't give me a response ;))

Thanks!

[Natalie NWA]

Hello,

I'm using Stanton 681SE carts.
The SE needle is no longer available.
Is it possible to retip a 6800EE needle and alter the suspension to match the compliance of an SE?
(I'm asking this here, because the contact form on NWA works, but doesn't give me a response ;))

Thanks!

Hi, we haven't received any message. But in answer to your query. No you can't alter the compliance.

Natalie

[DSJR]

What's wrong with a 6800EEE stylus in version 3 guise, hoping I have the cartridge model right? If you use the once controversial stabiliser brush and set tracking weight to half a gramme more (I think) than the tracking force (1.75g to give 1.25g at the stylus tip), it should be excellent in the Thorens arm. Since the V15 III worked OK in this arm, despite the high mass, you may be able to get away without the damper brush.

[WOStantonCS100]

Hi, we haven't received any message. But in answer to your query. No you can't alter the compliance.

Natalie

My understanding was that original Stanton styli employed a tie wire, in addition to the usual suspension, which tends to break when retipped??? Wouldn't that then automatically change the compliance (for the worse)? Or was that only the case with the 8xx, 9xx series... :scratch:

I have several Stantons, including two 681's. One of them was retipped (original stylus) and is sometimes just a bit sibilant over an original. My thought at the moment is to obtain an aftermarket stylus, which may not/probably doesn't have a tie wire and have that retipped. In that case, a retip with cantilever replacement shouldn't bug out the suspension too much... right...

As I'm somewhat of a nut case, my main cart is a Stanton Trackmaster with a ruby cantilever and retip. I'm guessing there was no tie wire (could be wrong). There was no added sibilance and I remain completely gobsmacked over the incredible improvement. It's a totally different sounding cart now.

If I could nail down with certainty the tie wire + suspension issue, I would then go ahead and retip the 890AL, 890SA and the other 681EEE.

[OneyedK]

Hi, we haven't received any message. But in answer to your query. No you can't alter the compliance.

Natalie
I'll resend the question, it was about a DL-103R retip.

Thanks for your answer, too bad it's impossible :(
I'll see if I can find a D6800AL...

[OneyedK]

What's wrong with a 6800EEE stylus in version 3 guise, hoping I have the cartridge model right? If you use the once controversial stabiliser brush and set tracking weight to half a gramme more (I think) than the tracking force (1.75g to give 1.25g at the stylus tip), it should be excellent in the Thorens arm.
The Thorens has a 16g effective weight, I tried an EEE stylus and it was sssssibliant.
Not a big fan of the brush either. (it eats up 1g btw)

[Rare Bird]

You can buy 681 EEE Styli What are you wanting an higher compliance of say a Mk.3?

[walpurgis]

Trust me, stabiliser brushes are still a 'no, no,' the brush fibres 'read' the record groove modulations and feed the resulting noise into the cartridge body and through the record vinyl to the stylus. Not good!

Tracking record cleaning brushes offer similar problems, feeding noise into the record vinyl and you can actually hear this faintly if you turn your amp off.

I have to say, I tried various Stantons including the 6 series and their Pickering cousins and found the sound a bit coarse for my liking.

[OneyedK]

You can buy 681 EEE Styli What are you wanting an higher compliance of say a Mk.3?
I'm looking for lower compliance...

[Rare Bird]

What about sourcing a 500EL it's around the same compliance..

[Rare Bird]

I have to say, I tried various Stantons including the 6 series and their Pickering cousins and found the sound a bit coarse for my liking.

I like the Pickering 'XLZ 7500S' with 'PLZ'

[WOStantonCS100]

Fortunately, removing the brush is a simple matter. Then one doesn't have to compensate for the 1 gram, either. As it would turn out, not all Stanton's came with the brush. (I admit, though, that when I'm too lazy to clean the record before hand, I use the brush.)

[WOStantonCS100]

I'll resend the question, it was about a DL-103R retip.

Thanks for your answer, too bad it's impossible :(
I'll see if I can find a D6800AL...

Sorry, thought you were talking about retipping the Stanton.

[Rare Bird]

I think it's that Karl can't get the Styli he's wanting as a replacement anymore but needs a new one which is a low compliance jobbie around 12x..I think karl is trying to use another but keep or slightly lower the compliance.I think this is right. Appologies if im wrang

[Marco]

Aye, if ye're no right, ye'll be wrang... :eyebrows:

Marco.

[OneyedK]

I think it's that Karl can't get the Styli he's wanting as a replacement anymore but needs a new one which is a low compliance jobbie around 12x..I think karl is trying to use another but keep or slightly lower the compliance.
:exactly:

I tried the 500, but I like the sound of the 681 more, especially the presentation of the lower mids.

This is what (MM/MI) I tried so far (old pic):
http://users.telenet.be/kastaar/SL1200MK2/IMG_0797%20%281%20of%201%29.jpg

[Natalie NWA]

Sorry, thought you were talking about retipping the Stanton.

He was talking about the Stanton, but he is going to send an email regarding different cart, the denon.

[OneyedK]

He was talking about the Stanton, but he is going to send an email regarding different cart, the denon.
Indeed...
I've sent the email regarding the Denon a few moments ago.
(had to verify that the coils were still intact, bought is off ebay, knowing it had a missing cantilever, but you never know what else could be wrong with it)

The reason why I ask about the Stanton is because at work, we still have a large number of EMT's equipped with the 681SE.
Even in broadcast, vinyl is getting hotter, so more and more of the EMT 948's are used again.
And given the fact that their duty is transcription, they should be in great shape.
The MC préamps are missing (were never there), so the 681 is basically the only option.
Unless another (rather low compliance) MM cart exists...

[DSJR]

The Thorens has a 16g effective weight, I tried an EEE stylus and it was sssssibliant.
Not a big fan of the brush either. (it eats up 1g btw)

The Dual 701 is around 13g IIRC and my ancient loft-stored 681EEE was excellent at 1.2g with no sibilance at all. In fact, I was greatly surprised at how good the treble was, since this model had been slagged off so much by Colloms et al back in the 1980's. Mind you, there may have been an agenda involved for all I know.......

Since I believe the body is the same, what about a Pickering XV15/625 stylus? 1.8g tracking and a very good all-round sonic.

Lastly, how sloppy are the TP16 bearings? Some had a little rattle in them, which is murderous for tracking. Needs some care, but the slop is adjustable out, although a fraction too far will stiffen the bearings up. The magnetic bias cannot be fully elimitated (same as all Rega arms) and fine tuning this away from the suggested settings may also be necessary.


Not picking a fight here, but is the negative vibe on the stabiliser brush based on direct personal experience, or online reputation? I know the Shure ones are very good indeed and have next to no sonic influence - in fact they're a boon for heavier arms IMO, but I haven't ever used the Stanton one since we automatically removed them without ever listening. Tonearms back then used with a 681EEE were very low mass, making the brush irrelevant and mine lacks one of these for me to try.

[OneyedK]

Not picking a fight here, but is the negative vibe on the stabiliser brush based on direct personal experience, or online reputation?
Direct personal experience...
681 with brush, the cart sounds softer and far less dynamic.

Same goes for my V15, I like the sound with the D1507DJ but not with the D-5-E (with non removeable brush, wich Pickering calls "dustamatic").
--> this cart is on my TD-160 atm

btw, bearings of the TP16 tonearm are as good as it gets, certainly not sloppy.

[Rare Bird]

Im trying to think of a good really low compliance cart. The Grace F9 variants are good, but im not sure how easy they are to source these days.

[WOStantonCS100]

:exactly:

I tried the 500, but I like the sound of the 681 more, especially the presentation of the lower mids.

This is what (MM/MI) I tried so far (old pic):
http://users.telenet.be/kastaar/SL1200MK2/IMG_0797%20%281%20of%201%29.jpg

I see a Trackmaster II RS in that stable (and two newer Groovemasters). It's not going to sound like a 681 but the compliance should be closer to what you want, if you retip it. The trade off is that, if done well, it will sound much more like an 881 (a plus for me personally) rather than the 681. It will track like a beast, have detail for days and be devoid of sibilance. Mine tracks well at 3 grams. NWA has some interesting cantilever choices which I'm hoping to take advantage of some day. :)

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz80/TCKA1ESa/Projects/IMG_8393.jpg

[OneyedK]

Sadly, a Trackmaster or a groovemaster will never fit a Thorens or EMT :(

I'm happy with the Technics/103R combo...
Received word from NWA, so it looks like another 103R with boron cantilever and microridge tip will join the family. (if the cart isn't beyond repair)

[WOStantonCS100]

Sadly, a Trackmaster or a groovemaster will never fit a Thorens or EMT :(

I'm happy with the Technics/103R combo...
Received word from NWA, so it looks like another 103R with boron cantilever and microridge tip will join the family. (if the cart isn't beyond repair)

Suddenly, it occurs to me that the stylus for the 680v3 might just do the trick as it's a 6xx series cartridge and the styli are interchangeable. At least, it should have a lower compliance than the 681 stylus given that it's supposed to handle the rigors of skratching. :rolleyes: Here's how Stanton describe it. "The suspension is so robust that the 680.V3 functions just as good as a scratch needle as it does as a club needle." Now, I pretty much can't stand the sound of tree trunk DJ needles; but... since my experiment went amazingly well retipping the Trackmaster, I don't see why this wouldn't work on the 680v3's stylus. You get the benefit of the stiffer suspension and a better cantilever/stylus (if you go for a retip) that fits the 681 body. The sound will still change a little (more detail and focus); but, you'll probably still know it's a 681; it won't sound like an 881. Just thinking out loud.

[OneyedK]

Suddenly, it occurs to me that the stylus for the 680v3 might just do the trick as it's a 6xx series cartridge and the styli are interchangeable.
Might be a great idea!
I assumed that the 680v3 no longer used the same body...