Which cartridge? [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

trio leo

20-01-2013, 22:59

Some opinions please chaps.
I'm after a new MC cartridge, these are my short listed items:

Lyra Delos
Ortofon Cadenza bronze
Audio Technica AT OC9
" " AT 150 ANV
Benz Micro Glider
" " Woody
Dynavector DV XX2 Mk2
" 17D3

T/table Thorens td 124 mk2, Audio Technica 1503 mk3 tonearm

I've also got an Ortofon SPU to be re-tipped

regards Al

Barry

20-01-2013, 23:50

If it were me, I would go for either the Benz or the Dynavector DV XX Mk. II.

Both should sound great in that envious combination of yours -the Thorens 124/II with Audio Technica At 1503 Mk.III.

I certainly would go ahead with the retipping of your Ortofon SPU, which could turn out to be the best option of all.

Natalie NWA

21-01-2013, 00:46

In order -
SPU
Benz glider
dynavector
OC9

But to be honest, I would stick with the SPU.

Natalie

vouk

21-01-2013, 05:31

+1. Retipping your SPU would probably be the best and, certainly, most cost effective solution.
Should you fancy a change, a Shelter 501, a ZYX R 100 or a slightly used Transfiguration Axia would be worthy contenders.

Marco

21-01-2013, 07:01

Hi Al,

Another '+1' here for getting your SPU retipped, as musically, the others aren't in the same ball park, and I can tell you from experience that your MCA-11 is a perfect match. Which SPU is it, btw? :)

Of the others on your list, the Cadenza Bronze is the closest in sound to the SPU, and you might well like that, as in comparison with a basic SPU, the superior quality tip on the Cadenza will give a bit more incisiveness and better detail retrieval, whilst producing about 75% of the musical magic of the SPU.

The Benz should also be nice, and I do like the Transfiguration range, but out with of the Cadenza, my favourite choice would be a Shelter, the full range of which are truly fantastic sounding cartridges that offer superb SPPV, and sonically, would be a great match for your Audio Technica/TD124 combo.

Also, if you fancy a somewhat 'leftfield' choice, then a ZU-modified Denon DL-103, or if you can find one, a DL-103SA, would most likely sound stunning! :cool:

Marco.

sonddek

21-01-2013, 10:46

Wow, is the SPU really that good? I have a broken one here that I might send to Expert. It is very old and it seems very heavy. Doesn't the weight increase record wear?

DSJR

21-01-2013, 11:35

SPU vs OC9 - are you MAD?????????? If you and your turntable/system favour one, the other will sound horrible I fear... AT33PTG possibly, since this latter always had more balls to it for UK and US vinyl.......

Bearing in mind your love of heavyweight decks ;) I echo the SPU recommendation. Just get the very best one you can afford, a suitable SUT or VERY GOOD active MC stage and just play loads of records with it.....

Natalie NWA

21-01-2013, 12:38

Wow, is the SPU really that good? I have a broken one here that I might send to Expert. It is very old and it seems very heavy. Doesn't the weight increase record wear?

No it doesn't, you can't beat a well sorted SPU. Dom has retipped many of these carts and I have yet to hear anything that sounds as good. With exception to the odd cart like Audio Note, or high end Koetsu. The SPU is a fantastic cart, warm organic and very good for vinyl.

Love these carts.

Natalie

Ammonite Audio

21-01-2013, 12:50

This thread reminds me that I must send my Kontrapunkt B and Rohmann cartridges to Dom for fettling!

walpurgis

21-01-2013, 12:58

Been using a ZYX R100 quite a lot.

It's a very different sound to all the others mentioned. For an MC it has more in common with the typical Decca sound. Fast, tight and incredibly revealing, great soundstage and ambience too.

I've also got the R100 H2, that is more of the same but even more intense. The R50 H which I own is much more laid back and has a huge ambience.

Spectral Morn

21-01-2013, 13:27

Benz Micro Glider :)

vouk

22-01-2013, 11:48

Benz Micro Glider :)

Naked cartridges give me the hibbie jibbies.

MartinT

22-01-2013, 12:53

Kontrapunkt

That was a good sounding cartridge, Hugo. I echo those who recommend the SPU or a Shelter cartridge, but any of the Ortofon MCs won't disappoint.

Spectral Morn

22-01-2013, 12:57

Naked cartridges give me the hibbie jibbies.

Me too but when something is this good one just has to ...... sit back and enjoy it.

The only thing really open to damage is more of the cantilever being exposed as none of the wires are that vulnerable. This cart is designed to have as little body as possible but taking into account safety and thus not making it unusable.

I recall years ago removing the bodies of Lyra and Van Den Hull carts and doing that was a huge risk as everything was vulnerable to being damaged but they were designed to be used with a body, not naked.

Regards Neil

vouk

22-01-2013, 13:10

Me too but when something is this good one just has to ...... sit back and enjoy it.

The only thing really open to damage is more of the cantilever being exposed as none of the wires are that vulnerable. This cart is designed to have as little body as possible but taking into account safety and thus not making it unusable.

I recall years ago removing the bodies of Lyra and Van Den Hull carts and doing that was a huge risk as everything was vulnerable to being damaged but they were designed to be used with a body, not naked.

Regards Neil

Hi Neil,
No argument here, especially with regard to the Glider. It is indeed a lovely cartridge. It's just that my record with naked body cartridges (Glider included) has been abysmal. :doh:

Barry

22-01-2013, 19:23

Me too but when something is this good one just has to ...... sit back and enjoy it.

The only thing really open to damage is more of the cantilever being exposed as none of the wires are that vulnerable. This cart is designed to have as little body as possible but taking into account safety and thus not making it unusable.

I recall years ago removing the bodies of Lyra and Van Den Hull carts and doing that was a huge risk as everything was vulnerable to being damaged but they were designed to be used with a body, not naked.

Regards Neil

So to with the EMT designs: the coil lead out wires are particularly vulnerable, as I know to my cost!

trio leo

23-01-2013, 20:22

Thanks fellas and Natalie,

I was leaning towards the Lyra Delos, a friend has a 124 and he uses a Lyra Dorian and he is very happy with it,
however I have had an SPU before and I know how good they are, so I think it's off to Dom's for a rebuild.

regards Al

Marco

23-01-2013, 21:22

Hi Al,

Lyras and SPUs are POLES apart, sonically. Personally, I dislike the sonic presentation of most Lyra cartridges, as to my ears, they are way too 'treble emphasised' and hi-fi sounding, at the expense of naturalness and musicality.

However, some of the worst sonic excesses of Lyras (and similarly voiced OC-9s) can be ameliorated with the right turntable/arm/cartridge and phono stage combinations.

If you want my advice, however, forget Lyras and get yer SPU sorted, and then bask in musical nirvana - especially as you have the ideal T/T and arm to make the most of an SPU! :exactly:

Marco.

DSJR

23-01-2013, 21:26

Hi Al,
However, some of the worst sonic excesses of Lyras (and OC-9s) can be ameliorated with the right turntable/arm/cartridge and phono stage combinations.
Marco.

Don't forget JAPANESE VINYL too, as this formulation is apparently what these "toppy" cartridges are designed for..

Marco

23-01-2013, 21:34

Yup, good point, Dave.

Furthermore, Oriental music is rather high-frequency (and midrange) orientated, with virtually no bass, which common sense seems to dictate that this is why Lyras are voiced as they are. In my experience, hi-fi components often exhibit the sonic proclivities generally favoured by the natives of the country where they are made, hence there is a 'Jap sound', 'American sound', 'British sound', etc, which one can usually discern with relative ease.

That is until you then question why all other Japanese cartridges don't sound the same as OC-9s or Lyras! ;)

Marco.

Spectral Morn

23-01-2013, 22:09

Lyra is based in Japan true but the designers are American and Norwegian

http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/

From the Lyra site....

'Based in Tokyo, LYRA is headed by Stig Bjorge from Norway,
with American design engineer Jonathan Carr, and Japanese
master craftsman Yoshinori Mishima making cartridges and
supervising production. All products are manufactured in
Japan with microscopic attention to detail under the direct
supervision of these three.'

I certainly loved my Clavis at the time but I think it needs attention due to age and not being used a lot.

Marco

23-01-2013, 22:17

Yup, Neil, it's similarly as interesting as Ortofon being a Danish (Scandinavian) company, yet the sound of the SPU is very much 'Jap voiced', but not in the traditional way.... ;)

Have you ever tried an SPU? You never seem to mention them, yet I suspect they would produce a sound that, when partnered properly, you would love!

The older Lyras, like your Clavis (and the Lydian) are rather different beasts! Unfortunately, the way cartridges are voiced has, over the years, gradually become more and more 'treble emphasised', much in the way today's speakers are. You have to question why this is...? What is driving the creating of this type of 'hyped up', unnatural, presentation in today's hi-fi equipment?

Marco.

Spectral Morn

23-01-2013, 22:22

Yup, Neil, it's similarly as interesting as Ortofon being a Danish company, but the sound of the SPU being very much 'Jap voiced', but not in the traditional way.... ;)

Have you ever tried an SPU? You never seem to mention them, yet I suspect they would produce a sound that, when partnered properly, you would love!

Marco.

Never had an opportunity to try one, nor have I ever handled or installed one, one of the few types of carts to bypass me over the years - hence my silence about them.

I agree with you that Lyra's can sound hifiish in the wrong system, arm and turntable but set up right and my Clavis was fed into a step-up transformer (EAR Head) then a mm valve phonostage - at the time - and it produced a beautiful, exquisite and musical sound and it pretty much sat bang in the middle of being a neutral sound.

Regards Neil

Marco

23-01-2013, 22:27

Yup, see my edit, regarding the Clavis. At some point you really *must* try an SPU! :)

Marco.

Spectral Morn

23-01-2013, 22:33

Yup, see my edit, regarding the Clavis. At some point you really *must* try an SPU! :)

Marco.

Just saw it Marco.

Many think etched, forward, bright and spotlit is music but its not. Some instruments can be like that but for all instruments to sound like that is not my thing at all.

I can't see one coming my way, any time soon, but if an opportunity comes up I would like to - someday.

Regards Neil

Marco

23-01-2013, 22:59

Spectral Morn

23-01-2013, 23:05

The only thing stopping you, mate, is your choice of tonearm... Lose that SME thing you've got and buy a nice FR-64S instead (which would piss all over your 'V'), strap an SPU to it (on your Techy) and prepare to hear vinyl like you've NEVER heard before! :trust:

Marco.

also having the dosh to buy a new cart or arm unheard and untried. Even if I had the dosh Marco I just would not buy anything with out listening first and in my set up.

Marco

23-01-2013, 23:15

Spectral Morn

23-01-2013, 23:33

Lol... I know, but the funds you'd get from the sale of your 'V' would most likely pay for a nice FR-64S (which if you didn't like you could easily move on with almost likely losing nothing), and then I'd let you borrow my SPU to try...

If nothing else, you've got to admire my determination to 'educate' you!! :D

;)

Marco.

lol resistance is futile :eek: well maybe......

Thing is I like the 5 arm and it works very well on my Oracle Delphi 4 when I have it mounted there, so I want to hold onto it.