View Full Version : PS Audio P10 - the beast has landed
MikeMusic
20-01-2013, 14:50
Tinkering away at the front end of my system and after some thought and comparing my PPP to a mains block I decided a P10 would be a good move, courtesy of Martin T's review of a few months ago
Arrived Thursday evening in the back of Trevor from Guildford Hifi's car.
It is big and heavy.
It would *just* fit into my Mana rack as Plan A, but I decided it was too tight given the weight and glass, plug overhang and ease of moving.
Plugged in and tried one track from Mavis. Sounded good, but I wasn't expecting much. Played various not so familiar music until today then albums I know.
So how was it after being left on for just over 2 days ?
Somewhere between surprising and stunning.
Way more detail, bass that seems to be connected directly to the earth below. Some little details shocked me because there was never any clue they were there before.
I wasn't going to review this soon as I expected it to take a while to come on song.
If it gets that much better from this level it will be stunning.
Not cheap and maybe you could manage with a P5, but you really should audition one if you can
Also worth putting a really good mains cable on this no idea why it should matter on something like this but it does
MikeMusic
20-01-2013, 15:15
Also worth putting a really good mains cable on this no idea why it should matter on something like this but it does
Oh yes I have an Ultimate stiffy, 2.6 from MCRU
I couldn't see why a good mains cable was so important, (surely ?) as the mains was being taken to pieces and put back together right, but did the testing and blow me so it was ...
Best cable of the lot has to go on the regenerator
Yes totally agree with your findings that has also been my experience
Glad to hear you are finding the same as the other P10 owners here, in my system it is fundamentally necessary, introducing distortion and dc into the signal path is never a good idea.
Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2013, 17:00
Just finished reading a comment with regards to the P10 and ATC active speakers. Several ATC owners have commented on how the P10 made NO difference whatsoever. I wonder why this could be..?
Not every system needs mains treatment In the past I had equipment that for whatever reason would not work with my PS P500
With anything like this it best to try in your system first
MikeMusic
20-01-2013, 17:56
Yes totally agree with your findings that has also been my experience
What sort of difference did you hear after 1 and 2 weeks ?
MikeMusic
20-01-2013, 17:57
Glad to hear you are finding the same as the other P10 owners here, in my system it is fundamentally necessary, introducing distortion and dc into the signal path is never a good idea.
I wonder if I have more problems with an overhead mains supply - and therefore more of an improvement
I had only the P500 so unable to really answer the question as so long ago, with the Balanced mains it was straight away no burn in
Oh yes I have an Ultimate stiffy, 2.6 from MCRU
I couldn't see why a good mains cable was so important, (surely ?) as the mains was being taken to pieces and put back together right, but did the testing and blow me so it was ...
Best cable of the lot has to go on the regenerator
Do you mean from the wall socket to the regenerator?
Just finished reading a comment with regards to the P10 and ATC active speakers. Several ATC owners have commented on how the P10 made NO difference whatsoever. I wonder why this could be..?
ATC speakers can be plugged directly into the wall with a good mains lead to hear them at their best (as reported by several ATC owners). :)
Or use a PS Audio Powerplant, or an IsoTek Sigmas (those are the 2 most popular amongst my ATC customers.
Just checked and the latest person to use the "stiffy" as described by Mike, reports thus.....
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ADS/QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ_zpsa86541c4.jpg
Do you mean from the wall socket to the regenerator?
Yes and you can walk on it as it does not give and does not touch the floor so result all round! :)
P.S Only jesting with the walk on it so don't try it!
Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2013, 20:02
ATC speakers can be plugged directly into the wall with a good mains lead to hear them at their best (as reported by several ATC owners). :)
Or use a PS Audio Powerplant, or an IsoTek Sigmas (those are the 2 most popular amongst my ATC customers.
Just checked and the latest person to use the "stiffy" as described by Mike, reports thus.....
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ADS/QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ_zpsa86541c4.jpg
ATC speakers do NOT work well with Isotek products. You bought my Isotek off me remember. ;) I noticed a marked improvement with the speakers when they were plugged directly into the mains. Additonally I use Polymorph reference power leads. Ruddy thick pure silver power leads with immense EMI and RFI protection amongst other things.. ;) The P10 could be another thing altogther as it does markedly different things to Isotek products.
ATC speakers do NOT work well with Isotek products. You bought my Isotek off me remember. ;) I noticed a marked improvement with the speakers when they were plugged directly into the mains. Additonally I use Polymorph reference power leads. Ruddy thick pure silver power leads with immense EMI and RFI protection amongst other things.. ;) The P10 could be another thing altogther as it does markedly different things to Isotek products.
That was a Nova dude, judgement based on just that one product is not representative of the entire range, also you ignored my first sentence of which you have agreed with by saying yours are plugged directly into the wall.
Nice one :)
Just checked and the latest person to use the "stiffy" as described by Mike, reports thus.....
http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ADS/QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ_zpsa86541c4.jpg
Yes, you can't beat having a big 'stiffy', or two, or three.... :eyebrows:
In all seriousness, no mains cable I've heard is superior to The Ultimates: they have an uncanny way of unlocking the latent potential in any system, in a way no other cable can! :exactly:
Marco.
Yes, you can't beat having a big 'stiffy', or two, or three.... :eyebrows:
In all seriousness, no mains cable I've heard is superior to The Ultimates: they have an uncanny way of unlocking the latent potential in any system, in a way no other cable can! :exactly:
Marco.
respect due dude :)
I turn 50 this year so a "stiffy" is getting more and more like a distant dream :lol:
Lol... Eat lots of broccoli! ;)
I didn't think you were that ancient! I'm 3 years off of the big 5-0 :eyebrows:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2013, 21:54
That was a Nova dude, judgement based on just that one product is not representative of the entire range, also you ignored my first sentence of which you have agreed with by saying yours are plugged directly into the wall.
Nice one :)
Mine are indeed plugged straight into the wall and they do sound better than being plugged into a mains filtration system. I did not ignore your sentence. I have Silver reference power leads which work very well, better than any Cu version I've tried but thats just my opinion, additionally, I dont think the extra cost of higher-end Isotek products would sonically be worth the additional outlay, too subjective in my eyes. Nice to hear you got another good review.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
21-01-2013, 06:26
I'd really love to try one of these things. I'd be happy to shell out what is a massive amount of dosh if I KNEW it would bring big improvements.
Harry, do you trust my judgement? If so, I can tell you that, outside of a major component upgrade (such as with your Ushers), the Ultimates will provide the most astonishing sonic improvement in your system, such as you won't quite believe until you hear it...
Wanna hear those top-notch recordings of yours in (truly) all their glory? Then fit a 'stiffy' or two!! :trust: :exactly:
Marco.
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 08:24
Do you mean from the wall socket to the regenerator?
Yes wall socket to P10
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 08:31
I'd really love to try one of these things. I'd be happy to shell out what is a massive amount of dosh if I KNEW it would bring big improvements.
Speak to Kevin at Signature
He will arrange for his local guy to loan you one I'm sure
I didn't bother with much investigation on the first night as I didn't think it could be that good from cold and new.
The improvement in sound makes you stop
the P10 is one of the biggest single improvements I have ever heard
Put a stiffy on the front end and you have heaven :eyebrows:
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 08:33
Harry, do you trust my judgement? If so, I can tell you that, outside of a major component upgrade (such as with your Ushers), the Ultimates will provide the most astonishing sonic improvement in your system, such as you won't quite believe until you hear it...
Wanna hear those top-notch recordings of yours in (truly) all their glory? Then fit a 'stiffy' or two!! :trust: :exactly:
Marco.
A P10 is mandatory with Ushers !
:)
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 09:19
As the P10 didn't give me enough clearance my the oversize Mana rack it had to go on top
Therefore the Isis instead of being on a Mana Ref top, on top of the rack is now in the middle of the rack
So even with that drop in position and sound quality it still way out performed the previous set up
To add to Mike's observations, my P10 was a big leap up from the PPP, itself no mean regenerator. My household mains suffers from high voltage flat-topped sinewaves, anything from 248 - 252V at between 3 and 5% distortion. This is typical of most mains waveforms in my experience, few people are lucky to have a low distortion supply. What the P10 does is supply an immense amount of immediate-demand current to maintain the voltage no matter what the system is doing by lowering the incoming supply impedance, at an output distortion of 0.6%.
As Mike says, the sense of music coming from darkness, pinpoint focussed soundstage and subterranean extension to the bass transforms a good system into a great one. Worth the amount you might otherwise spend on upgrades once your system has reached a certain level of capability.
I too use a 2.6mm Furukawa 'Ultimate' input cable.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
21-01-2013, 10:39
Harry, do you trust my judgement? If so, I can tell you that, outside of a major component upgrade (such as with your Ushers), the Ultimates will provide the most astonishing sonic improvement in your system, such as you won't quite believe until you hear it...
Wanna hear those top-notch recordings of yours in (truly) all their glory? Then fit a 'stiffy' or two!! :trust: :exactly:
Marco.
Marco, I certainly do trust your judgement. But I have a problem. Well eight problems. Four power amps, CD transport, DAC Pre and two PSXRs. Eight of them would be a hell of a price. Would one make a difference? What would I plug it on?
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 10:42
Marco, I certainly do trust your judgement. But I have a problem. Well eight problems. Four power amps, CD transport, DAC Pre and two PSXRs. Eight of them would be a hell of a price. Would one make a difference? What would I plug it on?
Good news Harry !
You only need 1 !
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 10:45
subterranean extension to the bass transforms a good system into a great one. Worth the amount you might otherwise spend on upgrades once your system has reached a certain level of capability.
From memory this is the first time an improvement has given such an jump in bass. Most improvements take away the 'rubbish/not real' bass
isuckedmandelsonslemons
21-01-2013, 10:48
Mike, Kevin at Signature? Who he?
isuckedmandelsonslemons
21-01-2013, 10:49
Good news Harry !
You only need 1 !
Oh yes, I only need one cable if I buy a P10.
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 10:52
Mike, Kevin at Signature? Who he?
The UK importers
http://www.signatureaudio.co.uk/
There is a demo P10 travelling the country
Website doesn't seem to be working
Trevor at Guildford Audio would talk to you - at least !
MikeMusic
21-01-2013, 10:59
Oh yes, I only need one cable if I buy a P10.
Get a P10
Have a word with MCRU about an Ultimate
I recommend at least one
Kevin has taken over UK distribution again, and does have a demonstration model, Trevor can certainly supply but as far as I know does not have a demo one. (Mike had that one!) He will be getting another one in though..
isuckedmandelsonslemons
21-01-2013, 13:01
Kevin has taken over UK distribution again, and does have a demonstration model, Trevor can certainly supply but as far as I know does not have a demo one. (Mike had that one!) He will be getting another one in though..
Kevin? Who he?
Kevin runs Signature Audio Systems, UK distributors for PS Audio products.
Website is down for maintenance but will be up again soon.
http://www.signaturesystems.co.uk
Oh yes, I only need one cable if I buy a P10.
Indeed. In the meantime, until you get one, you should put it on the end of your main source component - and then treat yourself to a new pair of underpants...! ;)
Marco.
Kevin has now joined us to answer PS Audio questions directly:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23337
kevin of signature audio
21-01-2013, 23:01
Hi guys, I'm Kevin of Signature Audio, distributors of PS Audio kit. I'm more than happy to answer your questions:
1. The most important power cable to max out on is the wall to P10. Think of filtering water. The more a good quality power cable does in cleaning the mains before the P10 the greater benefit the P10 provides. I've proved this to many disbelieving customers.
2. New P10 stock arriving very soon with me. Am currently sold out.
3. The P10 is sonically significantly better than the P500 and the PPP.
All the best
Kevin
kevin of signature audio
21-01-2013, 23:04
Mike, the P10 will continue to improve over the next month or so as the unit burns in. You'll hear more nuances that you've not heard before from your music!!
K:)
MikeMusic
22-01-2013, 07:55
3. The P10 is sonically significantly better than the P500 and the PPP.
The PPP is in a different league to a mains block
The P10 is in a different league to the PPP
MikeMusic
22-01-2013, 07:57
Mike, the P10 will continue to improve over the next month or so as the unit burns in. You'll hear more nuances that you've not heard before from your music!!
K:)
Wonderful !
Listened to Chavez Ravine last night. Amazing amount of detail I had never heard before.
And the P10 has been plugged in less than a week
isuckedmandelsonslemons
22-01-2013, 08:11
Oh, please stop it.
Yes wall socket to P10
I've now tried this and it does indeed work. I removed a mark grant 2.5 with a fururech plug and oysaide iec and instead put in an RFC with fururech plug and furutech carbon fibre iec. More texture to strings and other instruments and a more defined sound stage. Weird, but true.
MikeMusic
23-01-2013, 21:31
I've now tried this and it does indeed work. I removed a mark grant 2.5 with a fururech plug and oysaide iec and instead put in an RFC with fururech plug and furutech carbon fibre iec. More texture to strings and other instruments and a more defined sound stage. Weird, but true.
My first try was to change a Kimber Signature to a Kimber Silver Reference.
Definite step up.
Can see logic in it working
Could also see logic in it not working !
:)
Outrageously expensive compared with an Ultimate, though.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
24-01-2013, 08:10
Outrageously expensive compared with an Ultimate, though.
The Ultimate is £500 IIRC. I hardly dare ask how much the others are.
I can't believe the amount of money being thrown at this system in an attempt to "improve" it, when the fundamentals of the system are so in need of a re-think IMO..
Wouldn't it have been better to get something like some ATC SCM100ASL's for instance (a perfect and well trodden upgrade from any Naim system) and have change to spare for some better looking support furniture? I no longer have any contact with ATC, but their active monitor speakers are a very well trodden path from Naim owners looking to get a better sound for less money.. ATC have also done a considerable amout of work on their drive units and amp/crossover packs since the first of the "new" type came along in 1993, which my 100A's had fitted to them. Even keeping the tired old 'briks, where the mid drivers will almost certainly have drifted off their spec by now (a well catalogued occurance by the way in the KEF B110 in any form), going active with them would bring about the kind of clarity transformation that NO passive 'brik, driven by anything on the market, could ever dream of reproducing due to very audible losses in the passive crossover..
Sorry to spoil the fun, but I respectfully believe some common sense is called for here - and lets face it, most of the bigger Linn and Naim dealers from the bad old days were unanimous in supporting the active 'Brik route, and not just because of the extra boxes we could sell, since the sound was so much better on every era of Isobarik production...
MikeMusic
24-01-2013, 09:51
Outrageously expensive compared with an Ultimate, though.
Fortunately I found it ludicrously cheap and 2nd hand.
Outperformed by the Ultimate though....
MikeMusic
24-01-2013, 10:24
I can't believe the amount of money being thrown at this system in an attempt to "improve" it, when the fundamentals of the system are so in need of a re-think IMO..
Wouldn't it have been better to get something like some ATC SCM100ASL's for instance (a perfect and well trodden upgrade from any Naim system) and have change to spare for some better looking support furniture? I no longer have any contact with ATC, but their active monitor speakers are a very well trodden path from Naim owners looking to get a better sound for less money.. ATC have also done a considerable amout of work on their drive units and amp/crossover packs since the first of the "new" type came along in 1993, which my 100A's had fitted to them. Even keeping the tired old 'briks, where the mid drivers will almost certainly have drifted off their spec by now (a well catalogued occurance by the way in the KEF B110 in any form), going active with them would bring about the kind of clarity transformation that NO passive 'brik, driven by anything on the market, could ever dream of reproducing due to very audible losses in the passive crossover..
Sorry to spoil the fun, but I respectfully believe some common sense is called for here - and lets face it, most of the bigger Linn and Naim dealers from the bad old days were unanimous in supporting the active 'Brik route, and not just because of the extra boxes we could sell, since the sound was so much better on every era of Isobarik production...
'The system' is in flux.
I knew the system needed looking at.
After hearing the sheer 'naked' sound in Martin T's system I knew I had work to do. I'm after that 'nakedness'. That is the objective.
I've tried a few things that haven't worked, fortunately at no cost.
With the exception of getting the LP12 back working all those months ago everything put in has either improved or massively improved the sound quality.
Recent kit and cables are staying as I build a better system.
Given time I will sell the upgraded kit, except that moved into other systems.
Items like The Ultimate cable, Yannis interconnects and the P10 will stay if and when I upgrade other boxes.
The recent spate of none too cheap upgrades have got me much closer to my objective. With the huge improvements there is less urgency now, although the 82 must be a weak link in the chain... but -this is my only hobby, apart from cycling. - Slight correction listening to music is my hobby. The kit has to enable that.
I like what Mana does. I even quite like the look of it ! and that is not in the frame to change, except tailor made similar items to fit kit and non magnetic to get made up
The 500 will be compared hopefully quite soon to Martin T's Chord - and anyone else who is passing with a big power amp !
:)
I love my Isobariks. They may have to go, not soon, unless a silly bargain comes along that enables me to buy, try and either move on or swap out
ATC certainly a possibility. I haven't looked at speakers
Good news : I have a system that sounds fabulous. Weak links notwithstanding.
Actions : Must sell upgraded cables and kit
Future : System will sound even better
MikeMusic
25-01-2013, 09:54
this is my only hobby, apart from cycling. - Slight correction listening to music is my hobby
After some thought
"hobby"
is nowhere near strong enough, more like
"passion"
I listen to music almost every hour of the day and would not be without it
The thing is the quality of music delivered.
The boxes are enablers
Yup, 'passion' is my term for it, too. I spend more of my money on it than any other pursuit, so it's a little more than just a hobby.
People could quite easily say I have spent excessive amouts on cables / mains. In some ways I have. But every penny has been worth it.
However, I have had a better upgrade from sorting my mians out than lots of things. As Dave says "mains matters", I go as far to say "mains matters a helluva lot".
MikeMusic
25-01-2013, 11:32
People could quite easily say I have spent excessive amouts on cables / mains. In some ways I have. But every penny has been worth it.
However, I have had a better upgrade from sorting my mians out than lots of things. As Dave says "mains matters", I go as far to say "mains matters a helluva lot".
Whatever gets the job done :)
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 08:09
Faces - First Step more detail in the production allowed through.
The P10 seems to be the item allowing that hidden information through and making a favourite album even better
Gary Numan - Pure
That was a surprise to hear so much more depth, bass direct from the earth's core, detail that I don't think was there before, atmosphere.
A very well produced album
There's really no going back from a good regenerator, is there?
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 09:53
There's really no going back from a good regenerator, is there?
Some years ago I thought you were either mental or in need of a change in medication when you went on about mains cables improving hifi sound :scratch:
Fortunately for me I was prepared to try them out
Being mostly non technical I still don't know quite what is going on. The first tryouts left me speechless for a while (not easy)
Then you seduced me into regenerators
The P10 is an awesome piece of kit and I would even say it was very good value for money :D
Anyone thinking of upgrading any part of their system would do well to look at the front end and a P10 or at least a PPP, P300 etc. depending on budget
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-02-2013, 10:31
Will you two pack it in. Every time some bastard mentions one of these over-priced pieces of junk, I want one even more.
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 10:38
Will you two pack it in. Every time some bastard mentions one of these over-priced pieces of junk, I want one even more.
I am an official cheap skate and I reckon it is VFM
If you have the dough you should try one
Cannot see you letting it go
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-02-2013, 10:41
I'd love to try one. I'm sure they're brilliant.
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 10:52
I'd love to try one. I'm sure they're brilliant.
I was persuaded to buy one by Martin's review
He was underselling it
:)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-02-2013, 12:11
I'd trust Martin 100%. Good musical tastes and knows his stuff. Top fella.
If I praise him enough he'll probably buy me one.
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 12:35
I'd trust Martin 100%. Good musical tastes and knows his stuff. Top fella.
If I praise him enough he'll probably buy me one.
Didn't work for me
:(
tight bugger
:)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
06-02-2013, 12:39
I need to sort out a trial of one. Who do I contact? I know I asked this before.
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 13:14
I need to sort out a trial of one. Who do I contact? I know I asked this before.
PM sent
Nice one, Harry. Your Ushers will love cleanly powered components.
I'm serious, by the way; the Ushers have supremely clean midrange and treble drivers and reveal any harshness whatsoever in the replay chain. A P10 cleans up the reproduction in this area very nicely. Did we mention the subterranean bass?
MikeMusic
06-02-2013, 13:31
Did we mention the subterranean bass?
Only about 10 times !
:)
MikeMusic
07-02-2013, 12:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUxXjDhRDk
This is how I receive most technical detail
:)
Yep, you don't need much German to get the point made in that tutorial.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
07-02-2013, 15:28
Jeez . . . will you boys stop it.
MikeMusic
07-02-2013, 15:32
Jeez . . . will you boys stop it.
Watch the link !
This is more a comment on my non technicalness !
:)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
07-02-2013, 15:33
I've watched it. It seems like you plug it in and stuff works better. Is that it?
MikeMusic
07-02-2013, 15:46
I've watched it. It seems like you plug it in and stuff works better. Is that it?
If I was working from his commentary I would get the usual amount of info when someone goes technical on me. IE a bit
isuckedmandelsonslemons
07-02-2013, 17:08
PS500 any good?
Power Inspired AG1500 is fine for 1.5kw at a fraction of the cost. £600
Ordered a Isotek Sigma GII myself the other day and it will be here soon. Me are waiting in eager anticipation. :)
Ammonite Audio
08-02-2013, 07:29
Power Inspired AG1500 is fine for 1.5kw at a fraction of the cost. £600
I would be genuinely interested in comparing the AG1500 with my PS Audio P5.
MikeMusic
08-02-2013, 08:47
PS500 any good?
Better than nowt for sure
I could sell you my old P300 that is also way better than nowt as is my PPP
The P10 is in another class of performance and price
Martin does all my testing for me, I mosey along behind him
:)
I would be genuinely interested in comparing the AG1500 with my PS Audio P5.
When the power goes in the building they both keep your stereo running.
Im sure your P5 will walk over it.
When I first switched it on it brought a smile to my face and I thought well worth the £600.
:)
I'll not be replacing the P10 for quite some time! By the way, I did a firmware update on it a week ago. Stability and start-up improvements (I never had any problems) and a new feature to adjust/optimise the incoming phase. I played with it and went back to default as giving the least distortion.
MikeMusic
08-02-2013, 10:16
:)
I'll not be replacing the P10 for quite some time! By the way, I did a firmware update on it a week ago. Stability and start-up improvements (I never had any problems) and a new feature to adjust/optimise the incoming phase. I played with it and went back to default as giving the least distortion.
I was using the P10 in vanilla mode until this week -being fairly impressed with the sound :)
Don't rate the manual at all, which I had to print myself - just managed to work out some aspects of the touch sensitive panel.
Can the remote be used for other things like turning zones on and off or do you use your clever phone ?
Will connect to the interweb sooner or later
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 10:17
Right I've cracked. I'm going to dip my toe in the regenerator water.
If it hadn't been for massive hifi outlay recently I'd go shit or bust and get a P10. Sadly it's more than I can afford at the moment.
So what are my alternatives?
Problem is the number of boxes I have. My all Cyrus system comprises 8 boxes 4 x power amps, a transport, a Dac/pre and two psxr power supplies.
So, what should I go for as a stop gap until I've saved up the cash for a P10. And what will I plug into it?
I already have a decent mains supply with 8x good quality Unswitched single sockets and all my components have pretty good mains cables on them.
All help gratefully received.
MikeMusic
08-02-2013, 10:25
Right I've cracked. I'm going to dip my toe in the regenerator water.
If it hadn't been for massive hifi outlay recently I'd go shit or bust and get a P10. Sadly it's more than I can afford at the moment.
So what are my alternatives?
Problem is the number of boxes I have. My all Cyrus system comprises 8 boxes 4 x power amps, a transport, a Dac/pre and two psxr power supplies.
So, what should I go for as a stop gap until I've saved up the cash for a P10. And what will I plug into it?
I already have a decent mains supply with 8x good quality Unswitched single sockets and all my components have pretty good mains cables on them.
All help gratefully received.
A 2nd hand PPP would help with 5 outputs so choose what is connected
Will sound better than mowt for sure as would a P300, max 4. or a P500
There's the other makes I know nothing about too
I'd hesitate over waiting for a P10 or going for a stopgap now
Difficult decision
Mark Grant
08-02-2013, 10:54
Problem is the number of boxes I have. My all Cyrus system comprises 8 boxes 4 x power amps, a transport, a Dac/pre and two psxr power supplies.
So, what should I go for as a stop gap until I've saved up the cash for a P10. And what will I plug into it?
First of all you need to know how many watts the system draws, no point in buying a 300 watt regenerator if you need 2000 watts :)
measure each device with something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Power-Meter-Energy-Monitor-Esocket-Plug-in-KWH-Watt-Electricity-Meter-UK-/220940130975?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item33710eda9f
Then post the watts needed for each device and we can help you spend some money :)
You dont have to have 1 output per item.
Wild idea 1 output to a mains block say 4,6 ... sockets.
Have you worked out the power requirement of all your kit? It is best the MR has a comfortable margin for peak loads. Total power requirement 900w Don't get a 1kw MR
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 10:59
Thanks Mark. That's ordered. Less painful on the wallet than this is going to be in the long run
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 11:01
You dont have to have 1 output per item.
Wild idea 1 output to a mains block say 4,6 ... sockets.
Have you worked out the power requirement of all your kit? It is best the MR has a comfortable margin for peak loads. Total power requirement 900w Don't get a 1kw MR
Hi Alan. Problem is, I went from using blocks to eight single Unswitched sockets. Sounds better than using a block. Of course I didn't have a regenerator in the equation then.
Hi Alan. Problem is, I went from using blocks to eight single Unswitched sockets. Sounds better than using a block. Of course I didn't have a regenerator in the equation then.
You didn't have a regenerator in the equation then.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 11:26
Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Have I missed something?
Can the remote be used for other things like turning zones on and off or do you use your clever phone ?
You can do it from any browser, phone or PC. I don't often fiddle with the zones and if I do I usually use the P10's touch screen.
Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Have I missed something?
So there isnt a problem?
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 12:06
I don't know. Is there? I'm no expert. Far from it.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 12:07
And I did say 'have I missed something?'
I don't know. Is there? I'm no expert. Far from it.
If you are short of sockets try using a mains block. No expertise necessary ears for some folk lead them to say it steals something.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 12:24
If you are short of sockets try using a mains block. No expertise necessary ears for some folk lead them to say it steals something.
Forgive me. It may be that I am hard of thinking or that you have English as a second language but I'm afraid I don't understand any of that either.
1. I'm not short of sockets. I said earlier I have EIGHT unswitched single sockets.
2. Your second sentence 'No expertise necessary ears for some folk lead them to say it steals something' simply doesn't make any sense to me.
My apologies if you think I'm being arsey but I genuinely don't know what point you are trying to make.
MikeMusic
08-02-2013, 12:29
You can do it from any browser, phone or PC. I don't often fiddle with the zones and if I do I usually use the P10's touch screen.
But you turn on some/all (?) remotely ....
Is kit happy enough being turned off from the P10 or is the kit's own switch preferable ?
Forgive me. It may be that I am hard of thinking or that you have English as a second language but I'm afraid I don't understand any of that either.
1. I'm not short of sockets. I said earlier I have EIGHT unswitched single sockets.
2. Your second sentence 'No expertise necessary ears for some folk lead them to say it steals something' simply doesn't make any sense to me.
My apologies if you think I'm being arsey but I genuinely don't know what point you are trying to make.
Post 86 was trying to save you from having to have 1 socket per item on a Mains Regenerator. I give up too.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
08-02-2013, 12:44
Re Post 86. Like I didn't know that?
Your posts have been baffling at best and indecipherable at worst. I'm glad you're finished I was losing the will to live.
Re Post 86. Like I didn't know that?
Your posts have been baffling at best and indecipherable at worst. I'm glad you're finished I was losing the will to live.
I wish you well getting a Regenerator, mine was well worth it.
But you turn on some/all (?) remotely ....
Is kit happy enough being turned off from the P10 or is the kit's own switch preferable ?
I have mine sequenced like this:
1. Turntable / Paul Hynes PSU (always on)
2. SACD player (always on)
3. Phono preamp (always on)
4. Preamp (switched)
5. Power amp (delay switched, after 5 secs)
This is all programmed via the P10's web interface. I use the P10 exclusively for powering on/off as that's how the sequencing works.
MikeMusic
08-02-2013, 14:06
I have mine sequenced like this:
1. Turntable / Paul Hynes PSU (always on)
2. SACD player (always on)
3. Phono preamp (always on)
4. Preamp (switched)
5. Power amp (delay switched, after 5 secs)
This is all programmed via the P10's web interface. I use the P10 exclusively for powering on/off as that's how the sequencing works.
Thanks
Some mods for me perhaps as I do the opposite
I turn off the Technics (MCRU PSU) because the LED lights up the village and the Isis
Leave the HiCaps to the 82 and the Power on all the time
Need to work out how to turn on from work. I could well be back to ask how ....
Mike - go here to register yourself:
http://powerplay.psaudio.com/register.php
Then register your P10 with its serial no. Then you can play with its settings :)
MikeMusic
09-02-2013, 09:56
Mike - go here to register yourself:
http://powerplay.psaudio.com/register.php
Then register your P10 with its serial no. Then you can play with its settings :)
Thanks
Will do.
Anything special to look to do ?
Do you keep your SD card in the P10 ?
isuckedmandelsonslemons
09-02-2013, 10:33
OK chaps, there's a P500 and a Power Plant Premier on the bay. Any thoughts? Thinking stop gap before I go whole hog (providing I'm impressed)
MikeMusic
09-02-2013, 10:53
OK chaps, there's a P500 and a Power Plant Premier on the bay. Any thoughts? Thinking stop gap before I go whole hog (providing I'm impressed)
PPP as later tech and £800 looks good to me.
But if you offer £400 for the P500 means half the price of a PPP .......
isuckedmandelsonslemons
09-02-2013, 11:27
PPP is £800 the P500 is £600. I'm sure guy won't take £400 for it.
MikeMusic
09-02-2013, 11:31
PPP is £800 the P500 is £600. I'm sure guy won't take £400 for it.
I assume the PPP will give you a better sound and is probably worth the extra
£800 is a good price
Mark Grant
09-02-2013, 11:44
The PPP would also resell easily if you ever decide to upgrade.
lets see if these links tempt you :)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7108
http://www.stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/ps_audio_power_plant_premier_ac_regenerator/
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/psaudio5/ppp.html
The PPP is much more efficient and can power potentially your whole system. The P500 would be source components only. I've found that power amps response extremely well, so I'd go for the PPP if you can.
MikeMusic
23-02-2013, 13:06
Seems to be improving as the burn in continues
Improvements also gained when Martin T set to High Regulation from Low Distortion and waveform to Multiwave on his recent visit
I had forgotten there were these optional changes you can make yourself
Worthwhile !
Ammonite Audio
24-02-2013, 16:24
Seems to be improving as the burn in continues
Improvements also gained when Martin T set to High Regulation from Low Distortion and waveform to Multiwave on his recent visit
I had forgotten there were these optional changes you can make yourself
Worthwhile !
With my P5, I find that Multiwave robs something from the music. I observed the same thing with my old PPP too. YMMV, of course.
Interesting, Hugo, and I remember you saying that before. I also note that the HFN reviewer preferred sinewave. I guess it's system dependent. Good to have a choice.
Have you compared Low Distortion against High Regulation?
MikeMusic
24-02-2013, 17:25
With my P5, I find that Multiwave robs something from the music. I observed the same thing with my old PPP too. YMMV, of course.
I'll try the other settings and come back !
Ammonite Audio
24-02-2013, 18:29
Interesting, Hugo, and I remember you saying that before. I also note that the HFN reviewer preferred sinewave. I guess it's system dependent. Good to have a choice.
Have you compared Low Distortion against High Regulation?
I did not notice such a difference there, but when I'm home I'll have another listen. Should be back first week of March, if you are around.
MikeMusic
25-02-2013, 21:14
High regulation and Multiwave are the settings for me
Takes a good sound and makes it great
Sovereign
26-02-2013, 07:20
With my P5, I find that Multiwave robs something from the music. I observed the same thing with my old PPP too. YMMV, of course.
I'm convinced Jerry (jandl100) had the PPP and his findings were the Power inspired AG1500 outperformed it at a much lower cost.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
26-02-2013, 08:00
Jerry did indeed rave about the AG1500. His praise was such that I'm seriously considering taking a punt and dipping my feet in regenerator pool for a fairly modest outlay. The P10 at about £6k? Is a bit too outrageous I think.
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 08:06
Jerry did indeed rave about the AG1500. His praise was such that I'm seriously considering taking a punt and dipping my feet in regenerator pool for a fairly modest outlay. The P10 at about £6k? Is a bit too outrageous I think.
I'll sell you mine for £6k !
(and make a very nice profit buying another !)
:)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
26-02-2013, 08:15
I'll sell you mine for £6k !
(and make a very nice profit buying another !)
:)
Have I got price wrong?
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 08:22
Have I got price wrong?
Just a tad
If you pay more than £4500 I'd be surprised
Still VFM at that price
It does deliver stunning performance
The Grand Wazoo
26-02-2013, 08:24
If you pay more than £4500 I'd be surprised
You can get it for 1K less than that here (http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/PS-Audio-Perfect-Wave-Power-Plant-P10/product_5306)
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 08:27
You can get it for 1K less than that here (http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/PS-Audio-Perfect-Wave-Power-Plant-P10/product_5306)
Out of stock and won't be back from what I have heard
This is where I started
I paid £4k for mine and considered it excellent value for money (it is, after all, a sodding great amplifier of sorts).
Jerry did indeed rave about the AG1500. His praise was such that I'm seriously considering taking a punt and dipping my feet in regenerator pool for a fairly modest outlay. The P10 at about £6k? Is a bit too outrageous I think.
Harry
You will not be dissapointed with the AG1500. I am a sceptic with much that others rave about in HiFi. But the principle of rebuilding the mains to a consistent voltage and wave form is a solid one. Lo and behold as soon as I plugged mine in I could hear an improvement in SQ and grew to appreciate what it was doing (burned in) over the days that followed. Simple test just return to standard mains confirms it is no illusion. Whether you get over 4-6 times the improvement in SQ with a PS Audio I really doubt. I'm not spending £4-6k to find out. Look at he AG1500 as being plug and play, the P10 as the tweakers joy both have the same capacity. Best of luck
I am very very happy with my AG1500. Great buy.
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 12:37
I am very very happy with my AG1500. Great buy.
Be interesting to hear one against a P10
Sovereign
26-02-2013, 12:44
Be interesting to hear one against a P10
So would I, I think Figlet runs several AG1500's
I picked mine up second hand for £300, great bargain:)
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 12:48
So would I, I think Figlet runs several AG1500's
I picked mine up second hand for £300, great bargain:)
The AG1500 would have to come to the P10 as it takes 2 to lift and carry, unless you're feeling brave
Why "several" ?
Sovereign
26-02-2013, 13:10
The AG1500 would have to come to the P10 as it takes 2 to lift and carry, unless you're feeling brave
Why "several" ?
Where do you live, don't tell me your another Northern Hifi nut, there seems to be so many of them up there.
Why several? I have no idea, you will have to ask him, Not even sure if the second AG 1500 made an audioble difference.
MikeMusic
26-02-2013, 13:14
Where do you live, don't tell me your another Northern Hifi nut, there seems to be so many of them up there.
Why several? I have no idea, you will have to ask him, Not even sure if the second AG 1500 made an audioble difference.
In the soft South, top end of Surrey
Well logic says £300 can't get anywhere near a P10, but very interesting to hear all the same
Sovereign
27-02-2013, 08:50
I'm in Maidstone so not a million miles away. Maybe I could pop up to you at some point with a AG 1500 in hand
MikeMusic
27-02-2013, 08:57
I'm in Maidstone so not a million miles away. Maybe I could pop up to you at some point with a AG 1500 in hand
Yes, would be good compare - as long as I'm still happy after !
:)
Sovereign
27-02-2013, 16:47
:scratch:I doubt it, but you never know......
MikeMusic
18-04-2013, 09:02
Ok I now have another Ultimate mains cable, for about a week, so not really run in, from the P10 into the Isis and I'm back listening to CDs I know well
First up
Mountain Goats - The Life of the world to come
I hadn't really thought about this until I put the CD on.
The detail revealed is fabulous <thinks> what happened ? ah the Ultimate in the Isis !
Path
Missing Link socket - Ultimate stiffy 2.6 - P10 - Ultimate - Rega Isis CDP
Ultimate also runs the Naim 500 power amp
This is still with the 'weak link' Naim 82 and Isobariks
Glad you are enjoying some clean AC Mike, a fundamental piece in my view. You will be even happier when you come to replace the 82, it is the limiter for sure.
MikeMusic
01-05-2013, 07:23
Glad you are enjoying some clean AC Mike, a fundamental piece in my view. You will be even happier when you come to replace the 82, it is the limiter for sure.
I'm very happy with the sound as it is. Massive improvment
but I can take better
:)
MikeMusic
13-05-2013, 09:21
Assumed Underworld – A hundred days off would take advantage of the subterranean bass made available by the P10 and the Ultimate cables.
Nope
What I got was the detail of everything laid out like separate components.
Imagine a tool box with tools heaped in a pile – that was how it was before
Now it’s like the tools are all laid out separately in front of you and you can see them all
That was a surprise. The bass was ok. Assume the depths were not there in the making of the album
Anyway I got an idea and interrupted A hundred days off after one side
Once upon a time a few years ago I taped John Peel’s shows, picked out what I wanted, played them a bit more then bought what I really liked.
Worked well and JP was my main source for music.
He had a session from this lot I may have heard before but possibly not, a dance type band I guessed.
Recorded on my Revox B77, half track I listened once and thought – “hey, this lot may have something”
Played again, then and again and I was hooked. It was wonderful
This is arguably the best you will hear from them and you can’t buy it
Closest I can find is this, 9 minutes at the beginning of the session
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTFk4Tbmw4
around the middle another 10 mniutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqSBUb8cowQ
My reel to reel had been sidelined as it sounded below par after various upgrades
Time to try again I thought
Underworld’s John Peel session
Previously muddy and lacking definition, now with the B77 plugged into the P10 with it’s bell wire mains cable, a 3 metre Russ Andrews PBJ i/c and sitting on a Mana rack *not* spiked.
The sound was quite definitely *good*. Way better than expected.
I can tweak this quite a bit or maybe a lot better
So P10 with Ultimates feeding it and the power amp works some magic.
Some more tapes to be tried out .......
In the soft South, top end of Surrey
Well logic says £300 can't get anywhere near a P10, but very interesting to hear all the same
It's £500 for the AG1500, and would be unfair to compare the P10 to the AG500, but once you remove the casework, marketing / overheads & margins, touch panel / computing hardware & software etc. then IMO you have a pretty fair competitor. I would love to hear about any comparison.
MikeMusic
16-05-2013, 14:51
It's £500 for the AG1500, and would be unfair to compare the P10 to the AG500, but once you remove the casework, marketing / overheads & margins, touch panel / computing hardware & software etc. then IMO you have a pretty fair competitor. I would love to hear about any comparison.
Compare away.
If it comes close enough (in the listener's opinion) that will save a big pile of dough.
brian2957
16-05-2013, 14:59
Never heard the P10 but I'm using an AG500 in my system ant it's not going anywhere.:):) Will be comparing it to a balanced PSU soon hopefully.
MikeMusic
16-05-2013, 15:08
Never heard the P10 but I'm using an AG500 in my system ant it's not going anywhere.:):) Will be comparing it to a balanced PSU soon hopefully.
Just occurred to me I have a P300, a PPP and the P10, the first 2 I must sell
If someone brings one of yours we could get an easy compare with 4 boxes !
brian2957
16-05-2013, 15:11
You regenerating the whole house Mike :lol:
Figlet108
16-05-2013, 15:52
Why several? I have no idea, you will have to ask him, Not even sure if the second AG 1500 made an audioble difference.
I added a second AG1500 as it came up at a good discounted price and my theory was/is to plug only my 2 channel components into one (none of which have switching supplies) and everything else (lots of other boxes for multichannel, TV etc) into the other.
And that if it made no difference to take it up into my second system in my office - so win-win either way.
However I haven't had a chance yet to do the experiment and my main system is completely dismantled while we redecorate the living room.
I'm also getting one of the Airlink balanced supplies once everything is back up and running, so lots of experimenting to do.....
MikeMusic
16-05-2013, 16:50
You regenerating the whole house Mike :lol:
The P300 and PPP are sitting, waiting expectantly
You have given me an idea !
I could try the Freeview, Tivo and TV off them, see if there is any improvement - maybe even in the hifi with the 'dirty' kit moved away electrically
MikeMusic
16-05-2013, 16:51
I added a second AG1500 as it came up at a good discounted price and my theory was/is to plug only my 2 channel components into one (none of which have switching supplies) and everything else (lots of other boxes for multichannel, TV etc) into the other.
And that if it made no difference to take it up into my second system in my office - so win-win either way.
However I haven't had a chance yet to do the experiment and my main system is completely dismantled while we redecorate the living room.
I'm also getting one of the Airlink balanced supplies once everything is back up and running, so lots of experimenting to do.....
We want to hear what you hear !
Wakefield Turntables
24-05-2013, 15:48
Mine landed today. Its bloody heavy. I cant believe I had 248V being pumped into my system with 1.7% THD :eek: Now seems to have calmed down to 238.9v at 0.1% THD. Far too early to say if its had any impact yet.
MikeMusic
24-05-2013, 16:29
Mine landed today. Its bloody heavy. I cant believe I had 248V being pumped into my system with 1.7% THD :eek: Now seems to have calmed down to 238.9v at 0.1% THD. Far too early to say if its had any impact yet.
Yes the weight needs to be felt to get a real understanding of how heavy the beast is.
I thought I noticed an immediate improvement playing the Rega Isis but discounted it, wrongly I think now.
Over the next few days familiar albums told of an ever improving sound quality.
Wakefield Turntables
24-05-2013, 16:56
Mike, have you had a play with the settings, what did you opt for:scratch: I gave this one set to maximum regulation which seems to stabilise the output voltage to a near perfect 240v, its seems stable at 239.6v
Nice one, Andy. I have mine set to 242V output (my input is frequently 250V+) with high regulation, which sounds better to my ears than low distortion. I also use Multiwave. Don't forget to 'clean' your system with Cleanwave before a listening session.
The P10 will gradually improve over a couple of weeks but you should hear an immediate jump in sound quality if you run the whole system from it.
Ali Tait
24-05-2013, 18:09
Be interesting to compare one of these to my diy BPS sometime. AOS meet perhaps?
Be interesting to compare one of these to my diy BPS sometime. AOS meet perhaps?
I'm likely to bring my kit to the AoS show in November, Ali. That might be an opportune time.
Ali Tait
24-05-2013, 18:19
Good stuff Martin, I could do the same if there's room. Your speakers too? :eek:
Wakefield Turntables
24-05-2013, 18:45
Nice one, Andy. I have mine set to 242V output (my input is frequently 250V+) with high regulation, which sounds better to my ears than low distortion. I also use Multiwave. Don't forget to 'clean' your system with Cleanwave before a listening session.
The P10 will gradually improve over a couple of weeks but you should hear an immediate jump in sound quality if you run the whole system from it.
Martin,
Why 242V? I have started using Multiwave I think High Regulation sounds better. I do a cleanwave before I start listening. Just a quick question. What is the Phase Tune option and what value have you been using. I must admit not to have fully read the manual :D I wanted to get started. Now with regards an improvement with the system. Erm... I'm probably the most sceptical person around and I would say yes the soundstage has indeed increased. Instruments seems to have more "ooomph", and the timing seems to have improved as well. Micro-dynamics seems to be shining though as well.
Regards
A
The bigger the difference between input and output, the more the P10 has to correct. I feel comfortable with 242V and no more, achieving 0.1% THD out. No amount of adjustment will reduce that, and ultimately it starts to rise if I go too far. I left the phase alone on the same principle - it just raises THD if I go too far.
Your speakers too? :eek:
You must be joking! That's why I'm working on the Gales (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25059) :)
Ali Tait
24-05-2013, 19:58
:D
MikeMusic
25-05-2013, 10:43
Mike, have you had a play with the settings, what did you opt for:scratch: I gave this one set to maximum regulation which seems to stabilise the output voltage to a near perfect 240v, its seems stable at 239.6v
Catching up late .....
Think I left the voltage to be set by the P10
Multiwave and High Regulation - which is what Martin T pointed out to me - makes a noticeable improvement
Now if it was just a few kilos lighter and I could turn that blue light off it would be perfect
:)
MikeMusic
25-05-2013, 10:45
The bigger the difference between input and output, the more the P10 has to correct
Thanks. Good point - if you hadn't already told me !
:)
Ammonite Audio
25-05-2013, 10:58
..........I left the phase alone on the same principle - it just raises THD if I go too far.
My P5 doesn't seem to have a phase option in its setup - can you explain what it is and what it's supposed to do? The P5 has not been updated since I bought it, so once it's moved to my own house and can be connected to the internet, a firmware update may be required.
I had to do the firmware update to see that setting, Hugo. According to PS Audio, it should mostly be left alone unless you have a particularly severe load that messes with the output and then the phase can be adjusted in. I've left it alone.
It's worth doing the f/w update as it helps to prevent 'over-volt' warnings (which I've never seen).
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