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John
15-03-2009, 13:54
I am really tempted to get the 15" Silver Iris and the 15" Augies and build an open baffle speaker system
I would hope to style them similar to the Jamo Open Baffle speakers using birch ply
The Silver Iris do not require much driving but the Augies I would have to use something like a plate amp to power the bass
If I go ahead with this would people like me to post my thoughts experiences issues and pictures

leo
15-03-2009, 20:05
Of course! we like pics and write ups John:eyebrows:

I've heard high praise from folks who use the Hawthornes , they also look good value for money

John
15-03-2009, 20:54
Yes they seem to fit in both camps
My first decsion will be what to use to power the Bass drivers at the moment my thoughts go to using 2 plate amps round the 300w I have been made a nice offer on a second glowmaster but want to keep costs down so unlikely to go for this option
The baffles will be 38" by 20" using birch ply wood I will get my brother to do the cuts as he is a carpenter but I will do everything else

Ali Tait
16-03-2009, 08:58
Just MHO but I've heard a pair of Hawthornes at one of our Owston do's,and while nice,some other DIY open-baffles sounded considerably better,and for a lot less cash too.The owner ended up selling them I think.In fairness I should say Owston isn't an ideal place to hear kit,so they may sound better in a living room.

leo
16-03-2009, 09:16
Just MHO but I've heard a pair of Hawthornes at one of our Owston do's,and while nice,some other DIY open-baffles sounded considerably better,and for a lot less cash too.The owner ended up selling them I think.In fairness I should say Owston isn't an ideal place to hear kit,so they may sound better in a living room.


Thats interesting Ali, which other ones did you find better? mainly to get an idea, OB's maybe something I'll try at some later stage too

Ali Tait
16-03-2009, 09:34
I much preferred Nick's OB's,designed by James D,using a Fostex FE167 with an Eminence Beta 15-inch bass helper.He later added a Fostex FT17H (I think) supertweeter.These are amazing,even more so when you look at the cost of the drivers.

John
16-03-2009, 12:30
I heard two the Duet and the Solo the Solo not great but the Duet well it created something very nice

Ali Tait
16-03-2009, 12:42
That may well be it then,I think the ones I heard had just the one driver each.

nika
14-06-2009, 22:09
i used to have the si's and the augies as my main speakers! they were very good and exceptional value for money too...i found that upgrading the crossover network helps a lot! at first i just set up the si's alone on a smallish baffle tilted about 5-10 degrees on the floor...and later added the auggies on a tall baffle...im using them now as home theater speakers after i built my obs about a year or so ago with telefunken/saba greencones and 15" woofer. the speakers were derive from this site...lampizator.eu...

Will
14-06-2009, 23:30
Just built my first OB's using a Field coil mid and 15" bass.
Some photo,s of this weekends meet 3 OB's.
http://www.atrj13.dsl.pipex.com/na-meet-EggyJune09.htm

Ali Tait
15-06-2009, 19:02
Just to add,the field-coil speakers in Will's baffles are around 70 years old and they sound fantastic! Proves they knew exactly what they were doing all that time ago.

nika
16-06-2009, 15:13
Just built my first OB's using a Field coil mid and 15" bass.
Some photo,s of this weekends meet 3 OB's.
http://www.atrj13.dsl.pipex.com/na-meet-EggyJune09.htm

hi will,

do you mind sharing what the field coil driver is and the crossover?how much voltage are you running the coils?

Will
16-06-2009, 19:51
They are German Sachenwerk sp! 8" and cover 120-10000Hz
1st order crossover at 300Hz bass - 600Hz - 7000Hz mid - 7000Hz tweeter
the gap between bass and mid 300-600 is because of the shallow 1st order rolloff.

John
03-08-2009, 20:35
here is 3/4" birch ply cut too suit speakers
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/Johnj_013/tn2.jpg
The drivers are bolted on using nyloc nuts and I have put felt on drivers to dampen
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/Johnj_013/securedownload1.jpg
Still not fully set up have to wire crossover and mount somewhere probarly at base
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/Johnj_013/tn1.jpg
Picturesdo not do them justice very happy with how they look hope they sound good

John
09-08-2009, 19:24
Well here are the speakers in the system I will give you my thoughts in a few weeks time
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/Johnj_013/tn1-1.jpg

aquapiranha
12-08-2009, 21:50
Lovely. I would tell anyone to have a gi at building a pair of speakers. More often than not you will get something that would cost ten times more if you bought them from a shop, plus you get pride of ownership and the build itself is enjoyable. I have often seen the Siver Iris drivers but never heard them myself, I look forward to your reaction.

John
14-08-2009, 18:36
I am pretty impressed so far Steve the music is a lot more life like, amazing soundstage, very 3 dimensional and lots of detail even at low levels. The drivers are not even fully bedded in about 20 hours of use so far They are really fast I did not expect that. So far very happy with them but I have read that if you upgrade the crossovers parts they are capable of more. They already out perform any speaker I ever heard in my room
I just love what open baffles do and you dead right about owing something you made yourself It was fun playing with them The felt around the drivers casing has helped them
The Silver Iris on there own would cover most genras of music but adding the Auggies in is great for rock So you can tailor you speaker arrangement with a flick of switch

John
21-08-2009, 07:42
Well I been playing around with the Duets for awhile now
I come to conclusion open baffles offer amazing value for money I chose the Duet as they offered a ready made solution as the crossovers are already built for you so it’s just a question of making the cabinet and adding the speakers. The other reason why I chose the Duet was that there was a dedicated online support team.
Getting the set up right took a bit more time and effort than usual. Usually it just a question of speaker placement right. But I here I had to also learn how to use the controls on the plate amp adjusting crossover EQ and phase to suit my room I also had to add some bass traps in the corners just to soak up some of the energy so that everything performed at it best. I have a smallish room for open Baffles 4x3m The size of the speakers are 37 x 17” I actually find them less imposing than my old Wharfedale Opus 3 which are about 5” in height
Its hard to compare them to any other speaker I had they just seem to be so much more musical than anything else I owned. I guess the first thing I notice is just how much 3 dimensional the soundstage is and how much more it allows me to hear into the music. Instruments are so much natural I play a bit of guitar so know what a guitar sounds like when hitting a harmonic and for me this captures that so well its like I can hear a Marshall or Fender amp in my room. The Silver Iris on there own have a wonderful texture and unless you play music that demands real scale or lots of bass this are pretty good. Adding the Auggies in allows you to have more scale and deep bass.
I reckon the whole project cost me around £1000 to make but if you just using the Silver Iris perhaps £350
Silver Iris $300 and Auggiee (bass driver) $300 you have to allow for postage vat and custom duty would translate to about £475 I then bought to plate amps so I could go stereo £400. Then add about £140 for cables wood etc
So a £100 pound I have a pair of speakers that easily beats any speaker I ever had in my system.
The biggest criticism around the Duet is the Tweeter some people find it a bit to analytical to be honest with my set up I quite enjoy the tweeter its not perfect but I heard so much worse
I think the crazy thing about all this is there still room for a bit more tweaking I could go active or change the tweeters or improve the crossovers I could isolate the drivers a bit better so still plenty of room for further improvements but for the moment I am happy in fact the only time I heard my system this good was when I was using a Verus drive on my Super Scoutmaster
I think I am left with a few overall thoughts
Its worth investigating the DIY community as It offers a realistic why into very good sound for sensible money and is really rewarding. Open baffle offer very serious sound at practical costs
Speakers have a huge influence in your overall sound
Pay close attention to getting your room acoustics right It took a god while to get the bass right and some of that was down to my room acoustics
I understand open baffles are not going to be for everyone most people will choose to go down more traditional routes but I have yet to hear to hear a traditional loudspeaker give a more life like sound Do not get me wrong I am sure it possible but at silly prices.

Ali Tait
21-08-2009, 17:42
John you are spot on about OB's,there is something very special about a well-executed pair.I've found they are very flexible as regards placement/room size,certainly when compared to conventional box speakers.Glad you've got them sorted.How about bringing them to the Owston DIY do in September?

John
21-08-2009, 22:27
Would love to but would need to borrow an amp as mine is to big to lump around

Ali Tait
22-08-2009, 08:34
There would be no problem getting them on the end of someone's amp I'm sure.A lot of folk would be interested in hearing them I reckon.We are always keen on hearing new kit.

John
22-08-2009, 10:23
Hi Ali
Can you send details of where the event will be and who I need to contact I can take plate amps Dac/Pre and speakers

Ali Tait
22-08-2009, 15:17
It's held at Owston Park Lodge on the a19 near Doncaster on the weekend of the19-20 Sept.Steve Sheils is the organiser,he is away on holiday at the moment I believe,but he will put a post up here,the WD and Audio Talk forums for folks wishing to attend.It's nothing formal,just a get-together of like minded audio nuts with their DIY kit.It's a great weekend.Some folks stay over at a nearby hotel to make the most of it.Usually about a tenner for the Sat which includes lunch,and a fiver or so for Sun.We wait to see how many turn up and split the cost equally between us,but it's always more or less what I quoted.Highly recommended for anyone with an interest in diy hifi,valves,speakers and vinyl.

John
23-08-2009, 19:20
Really hope I can make it
Been listening to the speakers most of the weekend and everything is just so muiscal but also so much fun Very very impressed

Ali Tait
23-08-2009, 21:02
Look forward to hearing them!

John
09-09-2009, 16:31
Just added some black poker table cloth Makes the speakers look very rock and roll but also allows for less sound reflection issues so speakers are more holographic everything sounds more right not bad for a £10 upgrade and a hours work
Think I might rename them Stealth Duets
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u327/Johnj_013/securedownload1-1.jpg

RotaryConnection
11-09-2009, 12:19
Popped over to John's yesterday and spent a couple of hours listening through his SI's, so here's a thankyou for his hospitality and some observations.
We mostly used my Leben 300 for amplification and on the whole, it was a pretty successful combination I thought.
Firstly, these speakers are far less imposing than I expected, I think I could actually get them past shmbo approval on that point, the lack of cabinet depth really makes a difference and they could easily be pushed back or lifted out of the way when not being used. John assures me that he hears an improvement with the felt covering, not so sure I'd manage to get that past the missus!
Stereo imaging is very good indeed and with particularly well recorded material, the baffles disappear.
My first wow point was putting on a Luis Bonfa solo recording-foot is tapping along and I'm listening to the music, not the system, completely captivating. They really shone with the fantastic Compass Point recordings of Grace Jones and I think we were both put into reverie by Dr John's Gris Gris album.
We listened to several different genres, including rock, reggae, fusion, electronics, acoustic and classical. These speakers definitely respond to the quality of recording though nothing we played was unlistenable because of that.
We both agreed that for their size, the drivers are pretty nimble, no soggyness here at all-basslines are clearly defined and articulate. On only one track by The Spacemen 3 with a particularly low and powerful bassnote were the drivers distressed into distortion, perhaps because the two drivers are so close together or maybe a node was over-excited?
Drums, especially kick and toms, very convincing. The only real disappointment for me from the session was with a track from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue where the brush-work was reduced to a vague and quite distracting sound like pans being scoured. It was difficult to pinpoint the source of this- amp, cross-over or tweeter, though john said it improved when he went back to his own amp later.
This leads to the only real shortcoming with these speakers for me and thats with the higher frequencies. The resolution there just does not match the quality of the low and mid. Having said that, they are not ear-shredding and make long listening sessions without fatigue a possibility.
Once I manage to stop compulsively buying music long enough to save some money, the Stirlings, with their improved tweeter and cross over are looking a more and more likely option for me. For this kind of money, you are getting one heck of a good deal and speaker even accounting for the vagaries of the pound, import duties etc.
I have made cabinets before but the open baffle construction means almost anyone without access to a fully equipped workshop can have a go at putting a pair together.
Nice one John, you've got a good sound going on in your room.

John
11-09-2009, 13:13
Thanks Gareth
On the Miles Davis track through my own amp brush strokes sound correct but agree Treble is the one thing that could be better and hope to upgrade the crossovers I am going to try a few other tweaks suggested on the Hawthorne forum first that are said to make a difference and will report back
Was nice meeting you and very fair write up!

Ali Tait
11-09-2009, 18:02
Perhaps the addition of a supertweeter would help? I've heard them make a real difference to OB's,as well as horn speakers.I've heard both a Fostex model and also a Visaton.Both were excellent.The extra sense of air and ambience they impart can make all the difference.

John
11-09-2009, 23:20
Yes its another option to consider Thanks for that Ali

RotaryConnection
12-09-2009, 10:20
I think the shortcomings with the present tweeter are a bit more fundamental than adding a supertweeter would solve tbh. Might be the cherry on the icing after upgrading the x-over and existing unit first, but not before doing that.

Ali Tait
12-09-2009, 11:12
John,
If you can bring the speakers,it may be possible to try them with supertweeters at Owston.Won't be ideal but may give you an idea of how they will sound.

John
12-09-2009, 14:58
Cheers
I will probarly go for Xover upgrade first and if I feel like I need a super tweeter I will add latter I was also thinking of adding the Radian 475pb but will hold off till after xmas
http://www.usspeaker.com/radian%20index-1.htm

DaveK
14-09-2009, 12:28
Sorry to briefly hijack the thread but ...
Ali, your PM mailbox is full so I cant thank you properly :)
Cheers,

Ali Tait
14-09-2009, 12:32
Ok I'll clear it.No thanks necessary!

John
18-09-2009, 19:36
Done a few little tweaks the the one that caused the biggest change was removing the metal screen The treble has become so much clearer in fact point that the trebble no longer bothers me not bad for 5 mins work

Ali Tait
18-09-2009, 20:08
Excellent John.It's always nice to dicover a substantial tweak that's free!

RotaryConnection
18-09-2009, 23:28
Thats interesting John, I seem to remember some mention of a 'screen-ectomy' somewhere on the Hawthorne forum, is this the same mod?
I'll have to have a sift through to find it.
Fair play if it saves you an upgrade to the Radian!

ps what else have you done to them?

John
19-09-2009, 05:43
Yes it on the forum
The other tweaks have been to use a cable as a drain from the speaker casket to the black black speaker terminal on the crossover and cleaning out the threads using PTFE on tweeter and driver Basically wrap PTFE 4 times around the tweeter threads tighten tweeter up then remove PTFE and then put PTFE 5 times around thread again and tightenup I am not sure how much the last two tweaks make but removing the screen is a major improvement. There is still a bit more toget if I upgrade the crossovers but its no getting to the stage where its harder to imagine what that would do

Tolstoi
20-12-2009, 10:59
Hi,
interesting thread. Funny you mention the Miles Davis 'Kind Of Blue' part with the brush. I have the Silver Iris solo here and that part is very clear here on my system. I have a small listening room as well and don't know if I should go for bass augmentation or not but I think that curiosity will push me there :).

John, can you keep us updated how you will improve your crossover? That could be interesting for me too.

Perhaps I'll play around with different baffle dimensions before adding the Augies but I'll do that with some cardboard before I end up with piles of useless wood here at home.

Cheers


Joerg

John
21-12-2009, 19:12
I got the upgraded caps and plan to wire them over xmas ny first time soldering ahhhhh
The augiess work really well
If you add a bit of felt on the back of the drivers it also helps to tighten things up a bit
I think it worth playing around with baffle design The Silver Iris is pretty good solo Its quite a suprise just how much good music you can get from it
I no longer have the issues with the brush strokes I think the Silver Iris really take awhile to fully sound at theie best