Mains. Block or regenerator ?

[MikeMusic]

I'm eyeing up a PS Audio P10
Before I go further it occurred to me I could check how my current PPP performed relative to a block

Don't remember much about the change when I got my current PPP so tested the PPP against a Russ Andrews Purifier Block last night.

The Purifier Block is a good bit of kit, but the amount of money between the list prices of the 2 should make the PPP a clear winner.

Favourite track Eyes on the Prize - Mavis Staples
PPP first.
Wonderful. This track performs better and better from either the MCRU mains cables the Rega Isis or both.

Purifier Block
Oh. Well it's ok. If this was all you knew you would probably be happy. The life, air, vibrancy and some detail has been removed. Sound has been flattened somewhat.

Double check, back to the PPP
Phew. Yes it's all there again. Fabulous

MartinT of this parish says the P10 is that much better than a PPP so it looks like a new box could be arriving soon.

Just remembered. For a level playing field Kimber Signature feeding both the PPP and Purifier Block.

Perhaps I'll do a test on a normal 4 way. Bet that will sound crushed
If anyone is interested give me a nudge

[AlanS]

Blocks are passive, can only remove stuff.

A regenerator is an active device, it rebuilds your mains to a constant, fixed voltage.

To compare the two is just not comparing like with like

Buy your new P10 and enjoy the improvement in sound

[John]

Also consider a dedicated earth spur and mains spur

[MikeMusic]

To compare the two is just not comparing like with like

Buy your new P10 and enjoy the improvement in sound

But I compared them anyway :)
Couldn't do much else to gauge the effectiveness of the PPP and extrapolate to the P10

Main(s) :) point is that a regenerator is worth having a listen to.
It can stay while all the other kit is changed

[MikeMusic]

Also consider a dedicated earth spur and mains spur

I do and eventually will.
Building a list of electrical things we need doing and that is on the list

[AlanS]

Sorry Mike
You and I live in different worlds. Swaping passive devices cannot tell what a P10 might sound like only a P10 can do that.
Best of luck.

[MikeMusic]

Sorry Mike
You and I live in different worlds. Swaping passive devices cannot tell what a P10 might sound like only a P10 can do that.
Best of luck.

The comparison was for the PPP or effectively nothing/not a lot
I don't have 5 separate mains sockets close by to do anything else

Maybe I should have titled "Regenerator or not" .....
:eyebrows:

[awkwardbydesign]

Also consider a dedicated earth spur and mains spur
Make that a radial, a spur just takes a feed from an existing ring; a radial comes from the consumer unit.

[MikeMusic]

Make that a radial, a spur just takes a feed from an existing ring; a radial comes from the consumer unit.

Thanks.
We currently have a dedicated ring coming into the room with the hfi on it. Not much else.

Can that ring easily become a radial or very similar with a small amount of fiddling at the board end and not replacing many lengths of cable or digging out walls ?

[AlanS]

Thanks.
We currently have a dedicated ring coming into the room with the hfi on it. Not much else.


You have the dedicated supply that you want, except the earth side.

Almost there.

[John]

Here is a good article http://www.decdun.me.uk/powersupplies.html

[MikeMusic]

You have the dedicated supply that you want, except the earth side.

Almost there.

Roughly what does that consist of please ?
See if I might be able to do it
Any risk of upsetting anything ?

[MikeMusic]

Here is a good article http://www.decdun.me.uk/powersupplies.html

Oh great
Thanks
Will read that fully later

[johnwhit]

Here is a good article http://www.decdun.me.uk/powersupplies.html

It's an interesting article, I have a dedicated socket from the consumer unit feeding a screened home made distribution block, 6 unswitched MK sockets, star earthed with a terminal on top to connect an earth lead from my amplifier chassis. I've seen plenty of articles suggesting adding another earth point to the socket, a pipe buried in the ground etc.

A word of caution, adding a second earth point will introduce a ground loop which may introduce noise and could be potentially dangerous.

John

[Ali Tait]

So can a pipe buried in the garden. If you succeed in making a very low impedance path to earth, it's possible if there was a fault in the cable supplying your street that the fault current would pass through your house. This could be tens of thousands of amps and could ruin your whole day.

[johnwhit]

So can a pipe buried in the garden. If you succeed in making a very low impedance path to earth, it's possible if there was a fault in the cable supplying your street that the fault current would pass through your house. This could be tens of thousands of amps and could ruin your whole day.

Oh yeah, and the noise introduced by the ground loop would be the least of you problems:eyebrows:

John

[Ali Tait]

Well, you wouldn't be worrying about it at the time!

[daytona600]

from memory ps10 are 1250watts and about three grand for a regen unit

for four grand get a 4000watt version mine just sent me a cheque for £ 400 for 3months electricity from british gas . another 25years payments left = 100 cheques

solar inverters are regen units with pure sinewave ouputs 4kwp 16amps at 240volts
power you house not just your hifi -
£4000 for a complete installed system with a ten year warranty

the sun never sends you bill

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/

[johnwhit]

Well, you wouldn't be worrying about it at the time!

True:D

[John]

As always with this kind of worked it needs to be done by a electrician as Ali pointed out the potential for danger is very real

[Ali Tait]

Indeed.

[MartinT]

Mike's comparison is valid for a distribution system. If you consider that you have power from a single socket (most of us only have a double and I use the other one for 'dirty' video equipment), then you can either use a distribution block or a regenerator. The P10 provides 5 clean zones of power with 9 sockets in total, so is effectively an active distribution block.

Of course, there is a steep price to pay, but then the benefits, as Mike has heard, outweigh pretty much any other way you could spend the money on your system.

Mike - I think a dedicated ring will be fine for you. Add an external earth only after consulting a qualified electrician, although I can say that my 1m spike in the ground by the house earth also helped sound quality.

There are some very nice features in the P10, such as staged power up. In fact, I set mine so that my source components are constantly fed even when the P10 is off, then the preamp powers up, then the power amp after another 5 seconds. Power off is reversed so that the power amp turns off first. No thumps, ever.

There's also the ability to power it up over the internet or from a phone. I can have my system warming up as I leave work on my way home.

[awkwardbydesign]

Can that ring easily become a radial or very similar with a small amount of fiddling at the board end and not replacing many lengths of cable or digging out walls ?
Ring mains circuits were installed to save copper; as there are 2 paths back to the fuse box, the cable could be thinner for a particular current. If you cut one end of the ring, I think you would be under spec. for the current; I wouldn't advise it.
Some houses have no problems with mains noise, if there are noises from other appliances, consider suppressing them first.
BTW, I have read that a dedicated earth spike COULD potentially be dangerous, if there is a break in the mains earth. I would be very careful here.

[MikeMusic]

I use the other one for 'dirty' video equipment),.. The P10 provides 5 clean zones of power with 9 sockets in total, so is effectively an active distribution block.

features in the P10, such as staged power up. In fact, I set mine so that my source components are constantly fed even when the P10 is off, then the preamp powers up, then the power amp after another 5 seconds. Power off is reversed so that the power amp turns off first. No thumps, ever.

There's also the ability to power it up over the internet or from a phone. I can have my system warming up as I leave work on my way home.

Thanks Martin
Good and bad news there for me
Do you have your video equipment in the P10 or separate ?
I was hoping to plug Freeview box, Tivo and DVD into the P10 because of the separate zones (!) and the nice amount of sockets

I will talk to a sparky. No fiddling with earths.
They were substantially improved when the house was refurbed. So was the sound !

The staged on and off has more to it than I thought and sounds more useful than I though

Hopefully with me soon

[MikeMusic]

Ring mains circuits were installed to save copper; as there are 2 paths back to the fuse box, the cable could be thinner for a particular current. If you cut one end of the ring, I think you would be under spec. for the current; I wouldn't advise it.
Some houses have no problems with mains noise, if there are noises from other appliances, consider suppressing them first.
BTW, I have read that a dedicated earth spike COULD potentially be dangerous, if there is a break in the mains earth. I would be very careful here.

If we can persuade Marco's qualified and hifi interested sparky to make the journey here with him that would be good

I also know a qualified and completely anal sparky - my sort of sparky !
The hifi side baffles and amuses him though

[awkwardbydesign]

The hifi side baffles and amuses him though
I think that applies to most of us. :eyebrows:

[MikeMusic]

I think that applies to most of us. :eyebrows:

Oh yes !
:lol:

[MartinT]

Do you have your video equipment in the P10 or separate ?
I was hoping to plug Freeview box, Tivo and DVD into the P10 because of the separate zones (!) and the nice amount of sockets

No, I keep my P10 purely for audio. However, if you keep a zone for video then I can't see that it will do much harm as the current draw will be minimal.

[MikeMusic]

No, I keep my P10 purely for audio. However, if you keep a zone for video then I can't see that it will do much harm as the current draw will be minimal.

I'll try them out and report back