View Full Version : Still buying Hi-Fi magazines?
walpurgis
08-01-2013, 22:27
Are you still buying Hi-Fi magazines?
I used to buy just about every monthly mag available years ago, but in the last few years I cut it down to HFN, HiFi+ and HFW. I've gone off HFN, can't get Hi-Fi+ locally (is it still going?) and I never subscribe 'cos sometimes when I thumb through a mag off the shelf I can see there's no content of interest to me. Anyway, I now just buy HFW, as at least it is still an interesting read most issues. (No I don't buy American mags)
Mr Kipling
08-01-2013, 23:26
I buy just Hi-Fi World. But I find little in it for me these days.
I browse Hi Fi News, Hi Fi Choice and Hi Fi World. Only if there are at least three items of interest do I buy the magazine. It's the same with National Geographic and all the photography magazines. At around £5 each, they are as far as I'm concerned, tending to price themselves out of the market.
I'm tired of HiFi+ and quickly get bored of reading ecstatic reviews of gear costing many £K. The more expensive the item, the more critical the review should be, whereas in practice the opposite appears to hold.
If I like the look of the CD attached to the BBC Music magazine I will buy it: the discs are well recorded and worth the £4.60 cover price.
[P.S. What is HFS? I thought Hi Fi Sound died years ago, along with Hi Fi for Pleasure.]
sq225917
08-01-2013, 23:38
I only by Plush+ I'll be stopping when it reach issue 100.
I still read and buy them, Hifi News, Hi Fi Choice, Stereophile and some Chinese ones. I also buy Image Hi Fi but mostly for photographs and new products price since I can't read German. Of course all articles have to be taken with a pinch of salt since they are the bread and butter of these magazines. I haven't read a bad review for ages.
Does anyone know where to buy The Absolute Sound or has it gone completely online?
walpurgis
08-01-2013, 23:57
[P.S. What is HFS? I thought Hi Fi Sound died years ago, along with Hi Fi for Pleasure.]
Quite right. Giving my age away again, I meant HFN.
Like you, I've also stopped buying photography mags. I don't buy computer mags any more either.
(still wondering whether to keep all my early HiFi+ and early HFW Supplement copies, I'm wondering if they'd be worth selling)
Pick one up now and then hifi+ or hifi world. Not often and price today is a lot of money to be honest.
Rare Bird
09-01-2013, 00:57
I own tons of Hi-Fi mags but i don't think i have one past 1973!
I have 2 subscriptions, one for the Swedish "Hifi & Musik" (which i'm convinced you understand the title of :lol: ) which is a try-and-cover-all-bases kind of mag but still mostly entertaining. If nothing else, the music coverage makes it worthwile.
I also subscribe to HiFi + on my iPad which is really cheap, and still very readable. I do like the mag though, its well layed out and to the content is interesting. As for the opinions expressed, i stopped taking notice many moons ago... ;) I'ts a good read though and makes me smile quite a lot! :)
Your HFN & HFW are also available here but they are bloody expensive and the contents are not of my taste...
Regards //Mike
Ammonite Audio
09-01-2013, 07:30
I still subscribe to HFN, which (mostly) has enough content to keep me amused. It does have a little problem with a certain reviewer's gushing reviews of anything SME/Quad/Absloute Sounds, but at least his writing is witty and fun. HiFi Critic is coming on very nicely, and now seems to have more actual content than the other magazines, so I'm happy to continue subscribing. HFW seems to be dying, with a tatty, amateur look and I glance at it in WH Smiths, but there's rarely anything to justify a purchase. I don't know how Alan Sircom manages, apparenty single-handed, at HF+; and I am concerned that almost all of ts equipment reviews reflect the views and preferences of one individual.
Wakefield Turntables
09-01-2013, 08:33
I get hifi world, that was the first I ever bought, and I have a subscription. HF plus is something which I only purchase when an article catches my attention. Hifi news is probably the mag I most enjoy, I also have a sub for this. Tbh the net is probably better nowadays as most people speak English and more pieces of kit can be reviewed.
jollyfix
09-01-2013, 09:13
A few years back i would buy HFW, HFN. I never bought HFN after it changed its layout a few years ago, just found it annoying. HFW was my favorite, but these days after finding this forum i only occasionally browse through a HFW mag whilst at WH Smiths. I can get all the info i need here on AOS, expert advice, pics, reviews etc.
freefallrob
09-01-2013, 09:37
I used to buy HIFI CHOICE many moons ago when I was a teenager with aspirations(!) , then switched to HIfi World (subscribed), I bought the others when something of interest was in them. I used to like Hifi Worlds kinda hobbyish/bloke in a shed type layout, made it feel like someone like me was writing it, it seemed more relevant to me.....(remember Simon Pope, where is he now?).
I don't subscribe now and hardly buy any mags at all, just the odd one, most of the gear reviewed I can't afford i'm afraid.
The internet and forums have taken a big slice of the market.
I can get all the info i need here on AOS, expert advice, pics, reviews etc.
Nice one, Dave. Glad that we're managing to cater for your needs! :)
I think that, eventually, forums, especially the good ones like AoS (free from any commercial bias and tedious industry politics) and populated by genuine (mostly very knowledgeable) enthusiasts, will almost completely replace the need people once had for hi-fi magazines, some of the reasons for which have been touched on already, by Dave. It is therefore important that we maintain our high standards - and we are very focussed on doing that.
The only hi-fi magazine I subscribe to now is HFN, simply because, for me, it seems the most 'sorted' of the current mags. The articles are well-written by knowledgeable and experienced people, although as mentioned, the 'wankfest' for anything SME/Quad/Absolute Sounds, is rather tedious. It has a nice balance between new and vintage hi-fi, and without doubt, the best music section (for me, a very important factor in choosing a hi-fi magazine) - and of course, it contains the, never less than entertaining, views of the inimitable Ken Kessler.
I used to buy HFW on a regular basis, but stopped doing so when the 'dynamic duo' of David Price and Adam Smith left to go to pastures new. That pissed me off, as for me, those guys WERE Hi-fi World... I simply couldn't stomach the ramblings and (in many ways unjustified) biases of Noel Keywood going 'unchecked', in the absence of David Price, who often tempered the worst of NK's 'excesses'! However, perhaps I should give HFW another look just to see where it's at now, and indeed Hi-Fi Choice, where Mr Price now resides, although that particular publication would need to have changed drastically, as I've always found it distinctly average and somewhat too mainstream in its content, compared with how it was in its heyday, in its legendary 'mini-book' format.
Hi-Fi+? These days, it's a waste of the paper it's printed on, and an utter shadow of its former self. I like Alan Sircom, and consider that he is one of the industry's good guys, and also admire his apparent enthusiasm for the very difficult job he's got, and his tenacity in attempting to keep afloat what I sadly see as a slowly sinking ship.... For me, however, unless things can drastically improve, with the injection of some fresh enthusiastic blood into its reviewing ranks, and a focus on what REAL audio enthusiasts want to read about, rather than simply pandering to the ever-diminishing 'key-jangler' fraternity, who purchase hi-fi jewellery - or even more weird, those who can't afford it, but just like looking at pictures of it (what's that pish all about?), the need for the existence of this particular magazine, in the UK at least, is virtually redundant.
The American mags don't really interest me, simply because they're just 'too American'. I don't really like on-line magazines, as I find reading lengthy 'reams' of prose on a computer screen rather tiring and monotonous. If I'm to read a magazine, then I want a physical paper format that I can hold in my hand and read, preferably when kicking back, relaxing on the sofa and listening to tunes, as I often do. The least amount of contact I have with a bloody computer, the better! I almost never fly or travel on any form of public transport (I tend to drive to all my major destinations), so the need to be 'entertained on the move', other than by the music from the stereo in my car, or the conversation of my passengers, is virtually nil.
I'll save my computer interaction for when I'm posting and reading the content on here! :cool:
Marco.
Riislingen
09-01-2013, 10:32
Used to do HFN for many years, switched to HFW for the past couple of years.
Ditched all hard copy subs 6 months ago and now only do HFN via my Ipad - that works very well, and enables me to take all magazines with me when travelling etc.
Main reason for reading HFN these days, are due to the record reviews. Any suggestions as to other sources/mags that does great music reviews ? BBC Music was mentioned - is that recommended ?
Having recently bought a 10" Android tablet I'm just about to purchase a subscription for year of HFN. At £1.67 per edition plus the archives it makes so much more sense than the paper version. The format on a tablet works so much better than it does on a desktop or laptop - I can understand Marco why you prefer print in comparison to these but a tablet is a different experience. Maybe one day I'll get into e-books though even I still prefer real books.
Bought Hi-FI World religiously for many, many years, only stopped reccently. As someone said the price is now way too much for what you get, also, like Marco I am not keen on the remaining reviewers except I think that NK can write a good review but the others bore me to tears and seem to only care about getting to the word target. Adam and DP always wrote entertaining reviews. I am just not interested in reading a whole page of recycled manufacturer's blurb, half a page on the 'looks' and two sentences on sound quality.
HF Review - they quite often review kit that cost more than my house, they think a £2.5K piece of kit is 'budget' or 'a bargain at the price' and I'm not interested in the classical music section that takes up half the mag (do they still have that?) Ken Kessler writes a good review though.
HF Choice - did drop dangerously close to being a WTF clone just with less adverts so stopped buying it a long time back, not seen it since DP took over.
HF Plush - they think £10K speakers are affordable. :rolleyes: Now I can barely afford the cover price of the magazine so I'm not interested there ;)although the contributions in the couple of issues I do have are of a high standard (bought to read on the 'plane) and the reviews are comprehensive.
Audioman
09-01-2013, 15:27
I stopped buying magazines regulary last year. Always bought Hi-Fi World except early 00's when John Marks turned it into a comic. Went of a Cliff since David and Adam left. Lacking experienced reviewers now so you can't realy rely on their conclusions. Only NK knows what he is talking about and you have any idea the sound he favours. One of their other main reviewers is a Record Collector reviewer and he hardly gives any pointer to SQ when covering music releases. How can one trust his ears with hi-fi then.
I think Hi-fi News is the best of the bunch now as it has the most thorough reviews and music coverage even if it features too many unafordable products. Probably worth it for Ken Kessler's column alone. Sadly Dave Price has not raised the standard of Choice significantly IMO and appears to be hamstrung by it's traditional format. I think this and World would benefit from a complete revamp at this stage.
Hi-Fi+ is still short on content and too high end. Again a competent editor hamstrung by his publishers who in this case have an eye towards the US market.
In the long run can only see News surviving not to mention What Hi-Fi, which I haven't mentioned because it's total crap aimed at the AV crowd. The later is guaranteed reasonable sales as it's the only one you can get in Tesco !
Haselsh1
09-01-2013, 15:51
The last magazine I bought was Hi-Fi Answers back in its oh so biased flat earth days. I just couldn't stand the bigotry that existed back then but reading here about magazines today, maybe little has changed.
Audioman
09-01-2013, 16:29
The last magazine I bought was Hi-Fi Answers back in its oh so biased flat earth days. I just couldn't stand the bigotry that existed back then but reading here about magazines today, maybe little has changed.
Actualy they have changed for the better in terms of not recommending a small range of equipment. Just I think that many of the reviews don't tell you enough relevant information or they don't concentrate on real world products. Only buy if I see a few interesting products reviewed. In the case of Hi-Fi World they lost their best reviewers and it's become a little dull and repetitive.
The last magazine I bought was Hi-Fi Answers back in its oh so biased flat earth days. I just couldn't stand the bigotry that existed back then but reading here about magazines today, maybe little has changed.
Hi,
Was that when Paul Benson was the editor.
Riislingen
09-01-2013, 19:29
I stopped buying magazines regulary last year. Always bought Hi-Fi World except early 00's when John Marks turned it into a comic. Went of a Cliff since David and Adam left. Lacking experienced reviewers now so you can't realy rely on their conclusions. Only NK knows what he is talking about and you have any idea the sound he favours. One of their other main reviewers is a Record Collector reviewer and he hardly gives any pointer to SQ when covering music releases. How can one trust his ears with hi-fi then.
I think Hi-fi News is the best of the bunch now as it has the most thorough reviews and music coverage even if it features too many unafordable products. Probably worth it for Ken Kessler's column alone. Sadly Dave Price has not raised the standard of Choice significantly IMO and appears to be hamstrung by it's traditional format. I think this and World would benefit from a complete revamp at this stage.
Hi-Fi+ is still short on content and too high end. Again a competent editor hamstrung by his publishers who in this case have an eye towards the US market.
In the long run can only see News surviving not to mention What Hi-Fi, which I haven't mentioned because it's total crap aimed at the AV crowd. The later is guaranteed reasonable sales as it's the only one you can get in Tesco !
:exactly:
Great post Paul!
Well, this thread has at least spurred me to take out a digital subscription on HiFi News.
Seems to be reasonably balanced in gear cost, and they had quite a lot of music reviews! :thumbsup:
Thanks for the tip! :)
Regards Mike
bigmarty
09-01-2013, 23:13
I only ever buy HIFI mags when I'm holiday + flying and cycling mags, a man has got to have his porn! :lol:
Marty :D
Spectral Morn
09-01-2013, 23:14
One less this month.
HiFi+ had nothing in it of much interest for me so I looked at the cover price and put it back on the shelf. It will be the first issue since the mag began that I have not bought but I can't justify it any more as + is a pale shadow of what it once was - in my view.
I like Alan's writing, but + this month at least is not worth the price of admission :(
So for me now its HiFi News, Stereophile and a subscription to TAS (but I only have that as its been a Christmas present last year and this year again) it too is not what it once was.
I only ever buy HIFI mags when I'm holiday + flying and cycling mags, a man has got to have his porn! :lol:
Marty :D
Oh, I still subscribe to my favourite magazine: 'Leather - clad Nuns Monthly'. :eyebrows:
Spectral Morn
09-01-2013, 23:22
Oh, I still subscribe to my favourite magazine: 'Leather - clad Nuns Monthly'. :eyebrows:
TMI Barry :eyebrows: :lol:
Following on from this thread, I was thinking the other day of all the audio magazines once available, and how few there are now and even fewer that I buy.
From memory, at various times, we had on the newstand:
Hi-Fi News (and Record Review)
Hi-Fi Sound
Amateur Tape Recorder
Practical Hi-Fi and Audio
Practical Hi-Fi
Popular Hi-Fi
Hi-Fi for Pleasure
Hi-Fi Weekly (Yes - though it was short lived!)
Audiophile
Hi-Fi Answers
Hi-Fi World
and
What Hi-Fi. (I always think this title should have a question mark after it!)
Not forgetting the American mags:
Stereo Sound
Stereophile
Audio Amateur
The Absolute Sound.
Plus of course a couple of scurrilous little magazines, whose purpose was only to be used in emergency if one ran out of loo paper:
The Flat Response
and
Hi Fi Review.
I'm sure are some titles I have missed, but quite a change to the situation today.
Beobloke
10-01-2013, 10:31
My favourite of the old ones was always New Hi-Fi Sound, which I think was previously Popular Hi-Fi.
Their 'Rumble' pages, which took a silly look at the world of audio (and continually monitored the doings of the Shakitobitsi Corporation) were always very amusing!
Haselsh1
10-01-2013, 10:49
Hi,
Was that when Paul Benson was the editor.
Dean, it was indeed. Back in the days when the Janorhurst JBE trounced the Linn but the magazine flatly refused to do an audition. I remember it well.
hifi_dave
10-01-2013, 11:52
Dean, it was indeed. Back in the days when the Janorhurst JBE trounced the Linn but the magazine flatly refused to do an audition. I remember it well.
I did a couple of unseen demos of the LP12 versus two other turntables and Paul Benson preferred the others to the Linn on both occasions. He agreed the Linn was not quite as good but it was not wise to print that.
The JBE wasn't as good and clearly picked out on all demos I attended at that time.
Dean, it was indeed. Back in the days when the Janorhurst JBE trounced the Linn but the magazine flatly refused to do an audition. I remember it well.
Hi,
I also read about a turntable shootout where someone said a JBE deck was best then in a retest the LP12 was deemed better. I also remember Chris Frankland not rating the LP12 as highly then changing his mind. He was another Flat earther.
Both He and Paul got the push from their jobs as editors because they were too flat earth.
Chris started up The Flat Response then HiFi Review.
I subscribe to Hifi Critic which I find the most worthwhile magazine out there, with good and independent articles on hifi. Also subscribe to Hifi News, and buy some of the others from time to time.
morris_minor
10-01-2013, 13:37
I have an online sub to HFN, and occasionally buy HiFi+ to show SWMBO that I really could be spending a lot more on hi-fi . . .
For twenty + years I subscribed to Gramophone, which though not a hi-fi mag had a good audio section edited by John Borwick. When Haymarket took it over, and Sir Compton McKenzie turned over several times in his grave, I cancelled it quicker than I would have done if old Rupe Murdoch had bought it . . .
Pete The Cat
12-01-2013, 15:36
I haven't subscribed since Hi-Fi Answers closed, I just keep re-reading all the old copies that live in the loft :D
Pete
Inspired by this thread, I picked up three mags when shopping today.
HiFi News seems to be the most worthwhile, and the second part of their title ('and record review') seems much more prominent than last time I looked. Kessler is still Kessler. Paul Miller seems to have revitalised it since I last looked. Will probably buy again.
HiFi World looks exactly the same as it did five years ago, which is nice if you like to know what you're getting, I suppose.
HiFi + has some nice pictures. Seems to be mostly written by one bloke.
walpurgis
13-01-2013, 13:01
I did a couple of unseen demos of the LP12 versus two other turntables and Paul Benson preferred the others to the Linn on both occasions. He agreed the Linn was not quite as good but it was not wise to print that.
The JBE wasn't as good and clearly picked out on all demos I attended at that time.
Interesting.
A friend of mine was a regular Cornflake Shop customer twenty or more years ago and they'd set him up with a Sondek/Ittok/Koetsu Black and at the time we both though it sounded pretty decent through his big Naim amps and AE1s. Anyway, one day the lads from The Cornflake Shop turned up with a Roxsan Xerxes fitted with a Zeta arm and bunged his Koetsu in for a demo. The difference was staggering, so much more focus, power and lucidity. Needless to say the Linn was boxed up and taken away there and then and the Roksan stayed!
I did a couple of unseen demos of the LP12 versus two other turntables and Paul Benson preferred the others to the Linn on both occasions. He agreed the Linn was not quite as good but it was not wise to print that.
Lol... Dontcha just lurve that odious political pish? :doh: :rolleyes:
The question that begs to be asked, Dave, is what were the two other 'mystery' turntables? Bet I can guess one of them... Spill da beanz, dude!
Marco.
hifi_dave
13-01-2013, 16:10
Lol... Dontcha just lurve that odious political pish? :doh: :rolleyes:
The question that begs to be asked, Dave, is what were the two other 'mystery' turntables? Bet I can guess one of them... Spill da beanz, dude!
Marco.
Well, I suppose after all these years it doesn't really matter. It was the original Systemdek and the Oracle. All three fitted with a Rega RB200 and the cartridge swopped from one to the other was Fidelity Research, FR..?
The three of us there all clearly preferred the non LP12 but it was never spoken about after..:rolleyes:
Did you guess right ?
Thought the Systemdek would be in there, but also a Techy! ;)
Marco.
hifi_dave
13-01-2013, 22:19
Close but no cigar.
Well, I suppose after all these years it doesn't really matter. It was the original Systemdek and the Oracle. All three fitted with a Rega RB200 and the cartridge swopped from one to the other was Fidelity Research, FR..?
The three of us there all clearly preferred the non LP12 but it was never spoken about after..:rolleyes:
Did you guess right ?
...I guess this is why I got a lovely Systemdek III for £300.
walpurgis
13-01-2013, 23:46
Systemdek III is nice, but totally different to the original Systemdek, which was a big heavy beast, I had one.
Systemdek III is nice, but totally different to the original Systemdek, which was a big heavy beast, I had one.
Are you sure? I was under the impression that the III was a refinement of the original with the other models being a lot less heavily built.
EDIT: just found this image: http://www.systemdek.co.uk/joomla/images/stories/old%20systemdek33.png does look different to my III.
Westyman
14-01-2013, 08:09
That photo looks like mine. The base has a Nextel (was it) finish but mine has discoloured and tacky.
I think I auditioned it against the LP12 at the time both with Ultimo 10x and couldn't tell the difference so went for cheaper Systemdek.
And I can't remember last Hifi magazine I bought. Though I wish I still had one from probably late 50s that had a cover photo taken by my Dad of a stereo demonstration in Birmingham Town Hall with 12 Quad EL57 on each side.
walpurgis
14-01-2013, 11:08
Are you sure? I was under the impression that the III was a refinement of the original with the other models being a lot less heavily built.
Do you know, I think you are right. I was thinking of the II series and the III, as you say is derivative of the original Systemdek. My memory failing again.
And my original Systemdek also had a Nextel finish that had gone a bit tacky. Also, I wasn't keen on the rather insubstantial two bush main bearing, it wore quickly even if lubed reguarly.
The last time I subscribed to a hifi mag was back in the 1980's and that title would be Practical HiFi. I did buy a copy of What HiFi just before it turned into What HiFi and No Vision, frankly I couldn't tell the difference.
Do you know, I think you are right. I was thinking of the II series and the III, as you say is derivative of the original Systemdek. My memory failing again.
And my original Systemdek also had a Nextel finish that had gone a bit tacky. Also, I wasn't keen on the rather insubstantial two bush main bearing, it wore quickly even if lubed reguarly.
Yes, I have a 'sticky' deck ha ha. Thinking of stripping it, but then it looks OK.....
As for the OP I have bought the odd magazine, but by the time I really got into HiFi (8 or so years ago) the internet was already here, so I did my research via forums, online reviews & suchlike. Being a marketer and media specialist I also very quickly saw parallels between magazine advertising, product mix & reviews, so never trusted them like a good indie website.
Tweedle-Dee
14-01-2013, 18:17
I buy just Hi-Fi World. But I find little in it for me these days.
I bought their February edition today to read on a 3 hour train journey. I struggled to get 20 minutes' interest out of it. I subscribed during 2010 and 2011 and could hardly put it down. Is it me, or can one only read so much about cables, isolation platforms and racks that seem to take up about a third of the content now?
hifi_dave
14-01-2013, 18:45
And everything (virtually) gets five globes - so it's all perfect..:scratch:
walpurgis
15-01-2013, 00:45
And everything (virtually) gets five globes - so it's all perfect..:scratch:
Dave, are you suggesting that even in this day and age there is gear out there that might be of questionable performance? I mean, "five globes" means it must be good, surely? (joking of course)
I'm well aware that much is just adequate or average, although I think the age lamentably bad Hi-Fi products is gone, too much competition and exposure to get away with selling complete crap these days (Hello Mr. Sugar).
hifi_dave
15-01-2013, 09:52
It's a trend with most of the mags, that almost everything they review is wonderful. If they award globes or stars, the equipment almost invariably scores top ranking.
It's a trend with most of the mags, that almost everything they review is wonderful. If they award globes or stars, the equipment almost invariably scores top ranking.
Some magazines balance it a bit with negative reviews, but you'll never find any of their advertising in the mag... :P
chris@panteg
15-01-2013, 11:29
I used to enjoy new hifi sound back in the early to mid 80's , it had some humour and I loved the regular cartoon of the traditionalist dad and his mad tweaker son , anyone remember that ? Made me chuckle .
I buy Stereophile and Hi-Fi News on electronic subscription and read them whenever I have a spare moment.
Alan Sircom
15-01-2013, 20:50
Some magazines balance it a bit with negative reviews, but you'll never find any of their advertising in the mag... :P
Actually, that's quite wrong. We recently ran a review that was deeply critical of the high-end TQ cable designs, despite the company that distributes TQ being our biggest advertiser.
The difficulty with negative reviews is how they are perceived by the readers, rather than the advertisers. Oddly, it seems reviews are now often read in retrospect, in an effort to confirm the buying decisions already made by the readers. When those reviews don't do that, the enthusiasts frequently end up going crazy at the magazine. This is an inevitable aspect of moving from consumer-led to enthusiast-led magazines, the last stages of which happened when most of the consumers went away to iPod land eight or so years ago.
So, as a result of moving from a stance of pre-selection and dropping bad reviews to a more 'go for it' stance a few issues ago, we lost precisely no advertising but the readership went down a few points. The same happens whenever we move even slightly away from an strongly-review-led magazine. That includes too many features (i.e. more than one per issue), too many music reviews that aren't simply wistful looks at Blue Note reissues or gushing SACD reviews, and either too many computer audio or too few turntable or tube amp reviews.
What is perhaps more concerning is the demands of the UK readers are increasingly at odds with those outside the UK. British readers seem to want to read about Linn and Naim (especially Naim, putting the NDS on the front cover added about 17% to UK sales y-o-y), inexpensive valve amps and turntables, streaming and loudspeakers up to about £4k, with the occasional dream product at about £10k. They also want to read about Golden Age British audio products. Those outside the UK want to read about DACs above streaming (early reports suggest the NDS on the cover has caused a drop in sales), Wilson and Magico, high-end turntables and tubes, products in general at around £12k with the occasional dream product costing as much as a Ferrari. They find our obsession with our past irritating in the extreme (you might get one Quad 57 and one LS3/5a hagiography per decade, all the rest is navel gazing). A lot of the Asian and American market cannot tolerate reviews of classic hi-fi components; the former because those products never existed in their market, the latter because it always desires 'new'. With a magazine where only about a seventh of the readership is now UK based, you can see why this is a concern for me.
If my ad hoc monitoring of brands and how they relate to sales performance is any indicator of international presence of those UK brands, B&W, KEF and PMC are internationally recognised, everyone else not so much. SME also seems to have 'legs' outside the UK, although it's been a while since we ran a SME review.
We no longer actively pursue increased circulation at WHS, because currently we have to pay thousands a year to the company in 'promotions' just to keep the magazine in fewer branches each year. To keep the magazine in the same number of WHS year on year costs more than we make from all the magazines we sell in WHS and to increase circulation by promoting the magazine heavily would put us out of business. Fortunately, because we have a truly international footprint now, it's not as important as it was when I was working for Dennis or Future Publishing.
Some good, insightful facts there! Thanks for contributing!
It cant be easy, making magazines. It's not easy to please all, offend none and still make a living out of it! :)
Well, I, for one, still enjoy well written articles by experienced peeps! But these forums hvae but taken over most of the review business i s'ppose.
Regards //Mike
morris_minor
16-01-2013, 15:27
. . . .
What is perhaps more concerning is the demands of the UK readers are increasingly at odds with those outside the UK. British readers seem to want to read about Linn and Naim (especially Naim, putting the NDS on the front cover added about 17% to UK sales y-o-y), inexpensive valve amps and turntables, streaming and loudspeakers up to about £4k, with the occasional dream product at about £10k. They also want to read about Golden Age British audio products. Those outside the UK want to read about DACs above streaming (early reports suggest the NDS on the cover has caused a drop in sales), Wilson and Magico, high-end turntables and tubes, products in general at around £12k with the occasional dream product costing as much as a Ferrari.
Your figures here seem to indicate that either the recession has hit us harder here in the UK than other markets, or that we in the UK are either miserly or realistic in our hi-fi aims. Have you a demographic breakdown of your readers to help you fine tune your content, or is that too simplistic?
I read HiFi+ more than any other magazine and am frequently amazed at the retail prices of some pieces of kit, which are obviously aimed at the money-no-object brigade. Isn't there a point where development/production costs + a reasonable markup encroach into rip-off territory, where the final figure is whatever is thought the market will stand? Maybe because I can't even afford bread and butter £4k components I have a jaundiced view of "value"? And by the time you get up into the £100k strata the inevitable law of diminishing returns must have disappeared from view completely . . .
Notwithstanding this, HiFi+ is an enjoyable read!
Isn't there a point where development/production costs + a reasonable markup encroach into rip-off territory, where the final figure is whatever is thought the market will stand?
Too bloody right there is, Bob, and there's a very good term to describe it, too: 'Badge-Fi' (for the 'key-jangling' fraternity)! ;)
I'll comment more on this, and what Alan has written, later.
Marco.
No disrespect intended Alan but I would suggest that the core hifi enthusiast sector in the UK leans more towards budget and pre-owned equipment these days, so maybe UK circulation could be improved by addressing this sector rather than concentrating on equipment with telephone number price tickets. I stopped buying hifi magazines because of this slow march upwards into the fantasy hifi market.
What is perhaps more concerning is the demands of the UK readers are increasingly at odds with those outside the UK. British readers seem to want to read about Linn and Naim (especially Naim, putting the NDS on the front cover added about 17% to UK sales y-o-y)
I'm not disbelieving you for a minute, Alan, but that's a really hard one to accept. Are there still so many Linn/Naim admirers out there? I really thought that the What Hi-Fi mentality of inexpensive products-of-the-month (backed up by Richer and Sevenoaks sales) had become dominant. Not that I want them to be, but that was my perception.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 16:01
It would appear that Hifi + know their market pretty well. Trying to cater for such varying markets cannot be easy.
Personally I may buy a mag if I'm passing somewhere that sells them and there is something I'm interested in in it. Most of the places just seem to have What hifi, which I normally avoid.
I've probably bought most of my mags at WH Smith at Euston in the last year or so.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 16:04
No disrespect intended Alan but I would suggest that the core hifi enthusiast sector in the UK leans more towards budget and pre-owned equipment these days, so maybe UK circulation could be improved by addressing this sector rather than concentrating on equipment with telephone number price tickets. I stopped buying hifi magazines because of this slow march upwards into the fantasy hifi market.
Dave, that would probably put off a larger audience. Just concentrating on the UK market probably wouldn't be good for business.
No disrespect intended Alan but I would suggest that the core hifi enthusiast sector in the UK leans more towards budget and pre-owned equipment these days, so maybe UK circulation could be improved by addressing this sector rather than concentrating on equipment with telephone number price tickets.
A rather salient point, me thinks! I've never understood the attraction of ogling at glossy pictures of gear one couldn't afford now, nor likely ever... :scratch:
Maybe it's a blokey 'gadget thing' that I've never quite tuned into? Dunno....
Of far more interest to me, is reading about equipment which I either already own (and therefore this would mean that it would come into the, shall we call it, 'rationally priced' category), with a view to discovering something new about it which I didn't know before, thus increasing my enjoyment further of said equipment, or the identifying of interesting gear that I could afford and which 'punched well above its weight', sonically, for its price, thus offering me the 'biggest bang for my buck', or about inexpensive tweaks that I could apply to my system, which allowed me to appreciate my favourite music more!
Those are the things that one rarely reads about in hi-fi magazines, but which forums such as this specialise in, basically because the content of the former is about supporting the industry in the way it wants to be supported at the time (and getting people to continually buy new kit and spend more and more money, chasing an often unobtainable dream), and the latter is about a community of like-minded enthusiasts, sharing their collective knowledge for the benefit of others, who are into this hobby primarily because of their love of music, not incessant box-swapping, or rewarding the audio industry by buying their often no more than sonically mediocre (and also often vastly overpriced) new products.
It's simply the clash of commercial interests versus supporting those of the individual enthusiast. AoS will always exist primarily to cater for the latter, long after the idiots with more money than sense, who keep the makers of 'badge-fi' in business, have shuffled off of this mortal coil! ;)
Marco.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 16:13
I'm glad people are still buying new kit. It means I might be able to afford something nice a few years down the line.
Now could someone buy a new Benz Micro wood or Dynavector Karat and sell it to me cheap later in the year with not many hours on it?
And maybe a matched quad of Svet El34's, and a Hadcock GH242.
Hi Alan,
The difficulty with negative reviews is how they are perceived by the readers, rather than the advertisers. Oddly, it seems reviews are now often read in retrospect, in an effort to confirm the buying decisions already made by the readers. When those reviews don't do that, the enthusiasts frequently end up going crazy at the magazine. This is an inevitable aspect of moving from consumer-led to enthusiast-led magazines, the last stages of which happened when most of the consumers went away to iPod land eight or so years ago.
Indeed, and thanks for the 'inside insight' on that. Don't you think then that magazines today should be more enthusiast and less consumer-led? For me, that's what's sadly lacking in hi-fi mags now. At one time, the magazines promoted hi-fi as a learning hobby: something one actively participated in, to the extent of even building one's own kit. Nowadays it just seems to be about promoting the 'latest and greatest' new toy, or worse, rather obscene high-end 'oneupmanship'.
It's all sadly rather 'superficial'... Perhaps that mentality appeals to our American friends more, but in the UK, we've tended to be more careful and also discerning about where and on what we spend our hard-earned money. We demand good value - and rightly so!
British readers seem to want to read about Linn and Naim (especially Naim, putting the NDS on the front cover added about 17% to UK sales y-o-y), inexpensive valve amps and turntables, streaming and loudspeakers up to about £4k, with the occasional dream product at about £10k.
Aside from the rather annoying Linn/Naim 'love-in', what's wrong with that? Seems perfectly sensible to me!
They also want to read about Golden Age British audio products.
Sure, but what's wrong with that? The best of the "Golden Age British audio products" can often show what's made today a clean pair of heels, so why not champion what in many case was some of the best kit this country has ever produced?
I'm not saying simply to wallow in nostalgia (heaven forbid), that achieves nothing, but if some equipment was genuinely brilliant once, then chances are it's still brilliant now, and so in many cases buying the best vintage gear can lead to owning an amazing sounding system, for a relatively modest outlay. Like it or not, in today's appalling financial climate, 'sound-per-pound value' is very important to people when building a hi-fi system. It's high time that magazines recognised and embraced that fact.
Those outside the UK want to read about DACs above streaming (early reports suggest the NDS on the cover has caused a drop in sales), Wilson and Magico, high-end turntables and tubes, products in general at around £12k with the occasional dream product costing as much as a Ferrari. They find our obsession with our past irritating in the extreme (you might get one Quad 57 and one LS3/5a hagiography per decade, all the rest is navel gazing). A lot of the Asian and American market cannot tolerate reviews of classic hi-fi components; the former because those products never existed in their market, the latter because it always desires 'new'.
The latter is half the problem of why the high-end audio industry is in such a terrible state today. Why must people always have the latest new toy? How did we become such a shallow-minded and materialistic society? Ultimately, possessing such a mentality breeds deep-down dissatisfaction, simply because one is forever chasing the 'perfect sound', which in reality doesn't exist!
Why not concentrate instead on educating people to get the most out of the equipment that they already own, thus making them appreciate not only it more, but ultimately their favourite music? Is that concept too sensible and not commercial enough? ;)
Marco.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 16:57
Hi Alan,
Indeed, and thanks for the 'inside' insight on that. Don't you think then that magazines today should be more enthusiast and less consumer-led? For me, that's what's sadly lacking in hi-fi mags today. At one time, the mags promoted the notion of hi-fi as a learning hobby: something one actively participated in, to the extent of even building one's own kit. Nowadays it just seems to be about promoting the 'latest and greatest' new toy.
It's all sadly rather 'superficial'... Perhaps that mentality appeals to our American friends more, but in the UK, we've tended to be more careful and also discerning about where and on what we spend our hard-earned money. We demand good value!
Aside from the rather annoying Linn/Naim 'love-in', what's wrong with that? Seems perfectly sensible to me!
Sure, but what's wrong with that? The best of the "Golden Age British audio products" can often show what made today a clean pair of heels, so why not champion what in many case was some of the best kit this country has ever produced?
The latter is half the problem of why the high-end audio industry is in such a terrible state as it is today. Why must people always have the latest new toy? How did we become such a shallow-minded and materialistic society? Ultimately, possessing such a mentality breeds deep-down satistaction, simply because one is forever chasing the 'perfect sound', which in reality doesn't exist!
Why not concentrate instead on educating people to get the most out of the equipment that they already own, thus making them appreciate not only it more, but ultimately their favourite music? Is that concept too sensible and not commercial enough? ;)
Marco.
I just don't think it is commercial enough.
Yup, the 'winky smiley' was there for a good reason! ;)
Marco.
If a forward looking publisher were to launch a mag aimed at the sectors I mention in my post above plus the DIY side of the subject I reckon they would clean up. Add a comprehensive section on music and artists and the occasional aspirational review of some more expensive equipment and the deal would be a clincher for me :)
Same here. The problem with hi-fi mags today is that they concentrate too much on promoting the buying of new equipment, and not enough on giving genuine enthusiasts advice that is of benefit to THEM, instead of lining the pockets of certain companies and individuals within the audio industry.
And people wonder why said enthusiasts have left magazines in their droves and joined hi-fi forums instead, where such advice can be had for free, often from very knowledgeable and experienced people, devoid of any commercial agendas or industry politics......???
Marco.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 17:13
Yup, the 'winky smiley' was there for a good reason! ;)
Marco.
Imo there is a market in the uk for online reviews of new stuff as well as some of the stuff requested in the last few posts.
Sort of forum, with reviews and as a commercial enterprise. I think that would work well.
Right, I'm off to start Dingdonghifi.com. Laters.:eyebrows:
I agree with you Marco, however there is something to be said for thumbing through a glossy magazine, it is a tangible thing. Don't get me wrong, I believe there's room for forums such as this and a well thought out publication, but for me the latter doesn't exist as yet.
Wakefield Turntables
16-01-2013, 18:18
I have had a rethink since reading this thread. I think I shall be going down the PDF route. The two main reasons are price and space in the attic, i wont be able to stuff any more speakers or amps up there if I continue being physical mags. :eyebrows:
Imo there is a market in the uk for online reviews of new stuff as well as some of the stuff requested in the last few posts.
Sort of forum, with reviews and as a commercial enterprise. I think that would work well.
Absolutely, but will those in charge of the current mags take a blind bit of notice and implement something like that? No chance!
That's exactly why sales of hi-fi magazines have dwindled so badly in recent times. Ultimately, if you don't give your core customers what they want for long enough, they go somewhere else to find it.
I agree with you Marco, however there is something to be said for thumbing through a glossy magazine, it is a tangible thing.
I completely agree, Dave, which is why I only buy magazines on paper, but the content has to feature articles I'm interested in reading before I'll buy the magazine, glossy or not!
Don't get me wrong, I believe there's room for forums such as this and a well thought out publication, but for me the latter doesn't exist as yet.
Like I said earlier, HFN is about as close as that's likely to get :)
Marco.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 19:20
Absolutely, but will those in charge of the current mags take a blind bit of notice and implement something like that? No chance!
That's exactly why sales of hi-fi magazines have dwindled so badly in recent times. Ultimately, if you don't give your core customers what they want for long enough, they go somewhere else to find it.
I completely agree, Dave, which is why I only buy magazines on paper, but the content has to feature articles I'm interested in reading before I'll buy the magazine!
Like I said earlier, HFN is about as close as that's likely to get :)
Marco.
It's not just hifi magazines. The whole printed media business is not going well. The print trade is not a good one to be in at the moment. Online is where the majority are getting their fix.
Alan Sircom
16-01-2013, 19:34
Your figures here seem to indicate that either the recession has hit us harder here in the UK than other markets, or that we in the UK are either miserly or realistic in our hi-fi aims. Have you a demographic breakdown of your readers to help you fine tune your content, or is that too simplistic?
I read HiFi+ more than any other magazine and am frequently amazed at the retail prices of some pieces of kit, which are obviously aimed at the money-no-object brigade. Isn't there a point where development/production costs + a reasonable markup encroach into rip-off territory, where the final figure is whatever is thought the market will stand? Maybe because I can't even afford bread and butter £4k components I have a jaundiced view of "value"? And by the time you get up into the £100k strata the inevitable law of diminishing returns must have disappeared from view completely . . .
Notwithstanding this, HiFi+ is an enjoyable read!
The recession hasn't hit us as hard as other places, IMO. We just like to think we have it rougher than the rest. That's not to decry those struggling ATM, but we have something close to eight per cent unemployment, not 25%, and we don't have massive inflation compared to other places. We do have the endless gloom emanating from the mass media though, because misery sells.
I think we as a nation have either taken 'austerity' to heart as a result, and that influences our stance on things. America is 18 months ahead of us and has moved from 'austerity' and 'gloom and doom' to 'screw it, let's get on with life' and is beginning to buy stuff again. They are also getting slightly more comfortable 801(k) payouts again. Half of Europe is staring into the abyss and has a 'might as well get hung for a sheep as for a lamb' approach to tomorrow, the other half is pissed off with bailing out the other half and is wanting to have some fun with its products. Meanwhile, Asia buys on luxury and aspiration.
It's difficult to judge just where development cycles fall into the absurd in audio. The DarTZeel power amps are a case in point; the stereo power amp is expensive, but to make something truly better than the stereo amp involves a lot more than just a bridged version of the stereo amp. The result is a pair of mono amps that comfortably out-perform the stereo chassis in almost every respect, but with a price tag that is several times greater than an already expensive stereo chassis. A few years ago, the developmental cycle for a better amp would have come to an abrupt halt early in the design stage, when the Bill Of Materials for the mono amps hit the stratosphere, because no-one would buy such a thing. Now, however, the new wealth in the Asian market means not only do such things warrant continued R&D and being brought to market, but find enough of an audience to justify manufacture.
I don't think we've even got near the upper limits yet. No matter how large, how heavy or how expensive it is, there's always someone building something bigger, heavier and more expensive. There was a $50,000 equipment rack from Magico, which is the result of requests from top-tier Magico owners. Wilson makes a $200,000 loudspeaker, now Avalon builds a $300,000 one. Gabi from Crystal Cable admitted to me that they had just sold the first full kilometre of Absolute Dream (retailing at around $10,000 per metre), despite only being on the market for less than a year.
Are these hyper-expensive products better or merely 'more'? In many cases, the question is moot. If you don't build the definitive statement piece today, you aren't taken seriously in the circles that buy the high and higher end equipment. The fact there's a Focal Utopia Grande EM means the Focal Utopia Diabolo sells, which means the company has more leverage to sell its Electra and Chorus ranges in faraway places, and - as the Utopia range represents a substantial portion of the company's overall sales these days, provides the funding required to do things like design new loudspeakers and join forces with UK electronics companies.
It's a very different world out there now. We barely reach the shoreline.
Yes, it's a different world all right; an obscene and materialistically vulgar one, which is totally divorced from the reality that the vast majority of audio enthusiasts inhabit daily....!
Meanwhile, Asia buys on luxury and aspiration.
No doubt you're right, but I've always wondered why hi-fi should be 'aspirational'. Any idea?
After all, we're talking about what is essentially a tool for reproducing music, not a piece of fine art or jewellery to be admired. Sounds like (rather distasteful) snobbery, no?
When you get a chance, I'd be obliged if you could address the points raised in post #66. Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
Alan Sircom
16-01-2013, 20:11
No disrespect intended Alan but I would suggest that the core hifi enthusiast sector in the UK leans more towards budget and pre-owned equipment these days, so maybe UK circulation could be improved by addressing this sector rather than concentrating on equipment with telephone number price tickets. I stopped buying hifi magazines because of this slow march upwards into the fantasy hifi market.
We did a very thorough series of projections WRT overall tone of the magazine and how it performs. The best figure we could muster out of a UK-heavy model (with all the concomitant increases in UK circulation figures against decreases in US and R-O-W) was an overall loss of about 2,000 readers in total. Advertising revenue was roughly break-even (what we'd lose in internationals, we'd likely gain in local). The problem is to realise that, we would have to spend around £25,000 more per year in promotion at WHSmiths, because so few UK buyers subscribe.
Given also that we make less money on every magazine sold at WHS than we do through subscriptions, the overall kick in the balance sheet from reduced circulation, reduced income per issue and (mostly) increased promotional expenditure to WHS would at best leave us in zombie company territory.
Spectral Morn
16-01-2013, 20:47
Hello Alan
I had a look through the Roy Gregory period of HiFi + earlier today (I have every issue) and your early tenure as the magazines editor (before The Absolute Sound bought/took it over) and the slide re the look of the magazine and content was subtle but there and in recent times has become in my view a more pronounced downward spiral.
During Roy's period we had beautiful photography, more long form reviews that got to the heart of the products performance in a step by step way which balanced the overly long bit of text - that can take up 3/4 in some cases but normally 1/2 of the review - that outlines features and specs, that while important can overly dominate many reviews - not just in + but most magazines.
Sadly + these days is much reduced in content. In the old days the average was 136 pages with some issues being 161 pages. To days +, in fact last month and the month before, 96 pages and yet we are paying more for less, sadly common among all the mags.
I miss the interesting, new and diverse products reviewed rather than the same types of products/brands that all the other magazines are reviewing. The music reviews were in my opinion also better in the past.
As I wrote earlier in this thread I looked at this months issue (the first I haven't bought), the content and the cover price and I said no. I am not saying I won't buy future +s but the content will have to justify the price of entry and recently it hasn't. I used to look forward with great excitement to buying + and I haven't felt that way for a very long time.
Regards Neil
Alan Sircom
16-01-2013, 21:38
Hi Alan,
Indeed, and thanks for the 'inside insight' on that. Don't you think then that magazines today should be more enthusiast and less consumer-led? For me, that's what's sadly lacking in hi-fi mags today. At one time, the mags promoted the notion of hi-fi as a learning hobby: something one actively participated in, to the extent of even building one's own kit. Nowadays it just seems to be about promoting the 'latest and greatest' new toy.
It's all sadly rather 'superficial'... Perhaps that mentality appeals to our American friends more, but in the UK, we've tended to be more careful and also discerning about where and on what we spend our hard-earned money. We demand good value - and rightly so!
On a personal level, I agree. Hi-fi must be the means whereby your musical tastes expand, a magazine should provide the means whereby the reader can design a better system and can even point out ways they can build systems from scratch. The difficulty is this created autocratic "Super Disc Lists" and you end up with the situation where you still hear The Weavers Reunion Concert played at US hi-fi shows because Harry Pearson rated it sacred 30 years ago.
The DIY route has almost entirely gone outside of the UK. It's considered a quaint throwback to the Heathkit and Dynaco days in the US and an offensive implication of being someone who works with their hands/is too poor to buy the real stuff in much of the East.
The best of the "Golden Age British audio products" can often show what's made today a clean pair of heels, so why not champion what in many case was some of the best kit this country has ever produced?
Because six out of every seven of the readers don't know or care what Britain did with hi-fi back in the day. Clean pair of heels or not. Especially China; the new buyers there abhor the idea of owning someone else's cast offs (which is how they perceive the second-hand market) because that's what their parents had to live with in the bad old days. They are quite keen on retro, but it has to be new retro, not old classics.
The latter is half the problem of why the high-end audio industry is in such a terrible state today. Why must people always have the latest new toy? How did we become such a shallow-minded and materialistic society? Ultimately, possessing such a mentality breeds deep-down dissatisfaction, simply because one is forever chasing the 'perfect sound', which in reality doesn't exist!
Why not concentrate instead on educating people to get the most out of the equipment that they already own, thus making them appreciate not only it more, but ultimately their favourite music? Is that concept too sensible and not commercial enough? ;)
Marco.
Why must people always have the new toy? Because if they ain't buyin', your company is dyin'. And in the current market place, if it ain't new, it ain't worth shit.
Part of the problem hi-fi faces in today's market is it is fails to subscribe to the 'what have you done for me lately?' mentality endemic to modern society. Audio companies traditionally design products with five to ten year product life cycles, but are now finding they have less than a year before the product is all but forgotten. The paradox is this is most prevalent in Asian markets where audio is still a buoyant interest topic.
It's hard to create something with a ten year shelf life and 20 further years of life expectancy, when buyers wouldn't be seen dead with the thing they thought was the best thing in the world three months ago.
Especially China; the new buyers there abhor the idea of owning someone else's cast offs (which is how they perceive the second-hand market) because that's what their parents had to live with in the bad old days. They are quite keen on retro, but it has to be new retro, not old classics.
Slightly off course, but my best mate lives in China and you won't believe this, but this thinking also extends to the housing market. New builds are all the *new rich* want and over there you tend to buy the shell and fit the inside out yourself, so the homes are very personal. But no-one wants to buy second-hand. His neighbour has a beautiful lakeside home, which he only lived in for a short while before violently falling out with his wife. It has stood empty now for over 2 years and folk will pay over the odds for a new build, but walk past this one even though its available at a great price. You could gut it and kit it out like new and still have a sizeable pot left, when compared to buying a new one...... madness :scratch:
I keep telling him if I win the lotto I'm buying it :)
Alan Sircom
16-01-2013, 21:58
Hello Alan
I had a look through the Roy Gregory period of HiFi + earlier today (I have every issue) and your early tenure as the magazines editor (before The Absolute Sound bought/took it over) and the slide re the look of the magazine and content was subtle but there and in recent times has become in my view a more pronounced downward spiral.
During Roy's period we had beautiful photography, more long form reviews that got to the heart of the products performance in a step by step way which balanced the overly long bit of text - that can take up 3/4 in some cases but normally 1/2 of the review - that outlines features and specs, that while important can overly dominate many reviews - not just in + but most magazines.
Sadly + these days is much reduced in content. In the old days the average was 136 pages with some issues being 161 pages. To days +, in fact last month and the month before, 96 pages and yet we are paying more for less, sadly common among all the mags.
I miss the interesting, new and diverse products reviewed rather than the same types of products/brands that all the other magazines are reviewing. The music reviews were in my opinion also better in the past.
As I wrote earlier in this thread I looked at this months issue (the first I haven't bought), the content and the cover price and I said no. I am not saying I won't buy future +s but the content will have to justify the price of entry and recently it hasn't. I used to look forward with great excitement to buying + and I haven't felt that way for a very long time.
Regards Neil
Part of the reason The Absolute Sound bought Hi-Fi+ is that that expensive photography and those 161 page issues were losing the previous company money hand-over-fist almost every issue. And that was before the Credit Crunch halved advertising revenues and doubled print costs.
I took over in issue 65. We are now working on issue 96. Had I not put in some exceptionally difficult changes to the magazine, I doubt the magazine would have lasted past issue 67. So, no matter how poor you think the magazine is this issue, if you have read the other 29 under my editorship, you've probably seen something close to 350 product reviews, 450 record reviews and dozens of features, interviews and editorial comments that simply wouldn't have been there had it not looked and read the way it currently does.
Alan Sircom
16-01-2013, 22:07
Slightly off course, but my best mate lives in China and you won't believe this, but this thinking also extends to the housing market. New builds are all the *new rich* want and over there you tend to buy the shell and fit the inside out yourself, so the homes are very personal. But no-one wants to buy second-hand. His neighbour has a beautiful lakeside home, which he only lived in for a short while before violently falling out with his wife. It has stood empty now for over 2 years and folk will pay over the odds for a new build, but walk past this one even though its available at a great price. You could gut it and kit it out like new and still have a sizeable pot left, when compared to buying a new one...... madness :scratch:
I keep telling him if I win the lotto I'm buying it :)
It's a very odd market, especially the 'only buy new' part. Eventually, the bubble will burst, and then every hi-fi manufacturer, watch dealer, Ferrari dealer and property speculator will be frantically learning Brazilian Portuguese and Hindi.
It's a very odd market, especially the 'only buy new' part.
It really is odd, I can't get my head around it. To be honest when he told me two years ago no-one would buy it, I didn't believe him, but here we are two years down the road and its still empty - its a beautiful home too.
Hi Alan,
I appreciate the time you've taken to reply. If I may address some other points you've raised:
On a personal level, I agree. Hi-fi must be the means whereby your musical tastes expand, a magazine should provide the means whereby the reader can design a better system and can even point out ways they can build systems from scratch. The difficulty is this created autocratic "Super Disc Lists" and you end up with the situation where you still hear The Weavers Reunion Concert played at US hi-fi shows because Harry Pearson rated it sacred 30 years ago.
Lol... I've never even heard of The Weavers Reunion Concert, but we'll leave that one there! I get what you're saying, but would it hurt to reduce coverage of 'footballer's wife' priced gear, just a little, and feature more practical articles, for a change, that 'normal' people can relate to and derive some *real* benefit from?
The DIY route has almost entirely gone outside of the UK. It's considered a quaint throwback to the Heathkit and Dynaco days in the US and an offensive implication of being someone who works with their hands/is too poor to buy the real stuff in much of the East.
That's an interesting insight into the mentality of people from other nations, particularly those in the East, and for me, rather sad and shocking in equal measure.
Because six out of every seven of the readers don't know or care what Britain did with hi-fi back in the day. Clean pair of heels or not. Especially China; the new buyers there abhor the idea of owning someone else's cast offs (which is how they perceive the second-hand market) because that's what their parents had to live with in the bad old days. They are quite keen on retro, but it has to be new retro, not old classics.
Sorry, isn't it a well-known fact that our oriental friends buy up all the vintage Tannoys, Quad amps, SP10 turntables, vintage SPU cartridges, etc, etc, so I don't get what you mean by "new retro, not old classics"... Could you expand on that?
Why must people always have the new toy? Because if they ain't buyin', your company is dyin'. And in the current market place, if it ain't new, it ain't worth shit.
I get that, of course, but what I'm more interested in is the need for individuals to always have the new toy... For me, it smacks of insecurity and a need to 'impress' one's peers, both of which are unhealthy traits.
It's hard to create something with a ten year shelf life and 20 further years of life expectancy, when buyers wouldn't be seen dead with the thing they thought was the best thing in the world three months ago.
It's the bit in bold that bothers me most, and what I see currently as the audio press joining in the 'feeding frenzy', instead of adopting a more helpful approach. What's your view? :)
Marco.
I don't know enough about the Chinese market to comment on it, however the Japanese market soaks up classic British equipment like it is going out of fashion and what's more they are willing to pay top dollar for it. Here is a market which is ripe for such a magazine as I described previously.
Perhaps there's a big difference then between the Chinese and Japanese market? If so, I didn't realise that. The Japs are certainly the ones I've always respected most!
Marco.
There is Marco, the Chinese, especially the new rich only want to buy new, its all about image over there at the moment - the bubble will burst as Alan says, but right now they have money to burn.
Fairy muff! :)
They are nice people, certainly the ones I have met, but they sure don't think like we do :scratch:
(or as there's more, perhaps that should be 'we don't think like them')
Spectral Morn
16-01-2013, 22:48
Part of the reason The Absolute Sound bought Hi-Fi+ is that that expensive photography and those 161 page issues were losing the previous company money hand-over-fist almost every issue. And that was before the Credit Crunch halved advertising revenues and doubled print costs.
I took over in issue 65. We are now working on issue 96. Had I not put in some exceptionally difficult changes to the magazine, I doubt the magazine would have lasted past issue 67. So, no matter how poor you think the magazine is this issue, if you have read the other 29 under my editorship, you've probably seen something close to 350 product reviews, 450 record reviews and dozens of features, interviews and editorial comments that simply wouldn't have been there had it not looked and read the way it currently does.
Out of a sense of loyalty to what + was, and I hoped it might be again, I bought those issues but to be honest many of them sit unread as they are a pale ghost of what was.
I always though the old + was more a labour of love and either broke even or lost money but it was a fantastic thing (despite the Nordost elephant in the room) and I miss it.
I completely agree, Neil. It was a breath of fresh air when it first came out. I have copies of about the first 50 issues, all in mint condition.
Do you remember that there was even a restaurant review in the first or second issue (or both)? I can't remember... It was a magazine for *real* enthusiasts then, though, with all sorts of genuinely interesting articles and lateral thinking in evidence!
Marco.
Spectral Morn
16-01-2013, 23:12
I completely agree, Neil. It was a breath of fresh air when it first came out. I have copies of about the first 50 issues, all in mint condition.
Do you remember that there was even a restaurant review in the first or second issue (or both)? I can't remember... It was a magazine for *real* enthusiasts then, though, with all sorts of interesting articles and lateral thinking in evidence!
Marco.
Yes I do recall that and I agree totally and my copies are all in mint nick too. They are a valuable resource and as such I will be holding on to them.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 23:13
Personally I blame them that run forums for the downfall of the UK hifi print media. If only they'd just stayed like it used to be in the old days.
Now you've got people chatting on tinternet and discussing all sorts of stuff you couldn't do in a magazine. Where will it all end?
:D :D
I'm all for still having hi-fi magazines, *providing* that their role is not just simply to pander to the ridiculously materialistic sensibilities (and penchant for one-upmanship) of the extreme high-end buyers in other countries, which effectively is what Alan says is happening now with Hi-Fi+...
If there's no 'real world' purpose anymore for hi-fi magazines to exist, then I'm afraid long may the success of forums, such as AoS, lead to their downfall. That's a sad thing to say, but I simply have no time for publications that appear to exist simply to 'jerk off' the hi-fi jewellery brigade! :nono:
Marco.
Dingdong
16-01-2013, 23:29
I understand what you are saying, but if that is the only way to make money.
I quiked liked the older Hifi World. Shame I didn't keep any due to various house moves.
I understand what you are saying, but if that is the only way to make money.
Yes, but ultimately, Mark, a business has to be about more than just making money, because as sure as eggs is eggs, when you concentrate purely on profit, at the expense of generating creative ideas which help keep the business alive, that's when the money making stops and the business fails!
If I ran my own art and picture-framing business, purely as a money-making exercise, in doing so I'd end up losing the core customers who help keep the business afloat, as I'd no longer be catering for their specific needs, and why they chose to use my company's services in the first place. That's essentially what's happened with the way hi-fi mags, such as Hi-Fi+, have treated the UK market, and the readership that supported them from day one.
Sorry, Alan, but that's the way it looks to me, my friend....
Marco.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 00:07
Yes, it's a different world all right; an obscene and materialistically vulgar one, which is totally divorced from the reality that the vast majority of audio enthusiasts inhabit daily....
No doubt you're right, but I've always wondered why hi-fi should be 'aspirational'. Any idea?
After all, we're talking about what is essentially a tool simply for reproducing music, not a piece of art or fine jewellery to be admired. Sounds like (rather distasteful) snobbery, no?
When you get a chance, I'd be obliged if you could address the points raised in post #66. Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
I don't think there's enough audio enthusiasts left for there to be a 'vast majority' of them. And if there is a majority of enthusiasts to be had, it's probably over at HeadFi, where people routinely spend more money on a headphone/amp combo than I spent on my last car.
Why is hi-fi aspirational? Well, that's the thing. It isn't here, and the result is a lot of good audio brands are bumping along the bottom. Face it; people buy aspirational now, and if hi-fi isn't aspirational, they don't buy. It's why sales of Nexus 7 tablets suddenly went up fiftyfold in Q4 2012. They'd been in circulation since the summer, but they weren't cool and sold in dribs and drabs. Then the iPad Mini came out to a 'Meh!' and sales took off. Now people have had them for a while, the iPad Mini is starting to pick up again. Has anything materially changed in either device for these shifts in fortunes? No, just fashion and aspiration.
The thing is, why shouldn't hi-fi be something more than a tool? Loudspeakers are generally big and imposing, shouldn't people have at least the option of them being elegant too? One of hi-fi's biggest turn-offs for real people is a lot of it looks as ugly as a bag of spanners. That's fine if you want your man cave to look like the set of Das Boot, but if someone wants something to look as good as it sounds and is willing to pay for the privilege, why should that be so distasteful?
Alternately, maybe your desire is to make the stuff as big and as imposing as it can be, a grand statement of your audio intent. Why should that be so distasteful too? If you enjoy the music, and enjoy how you make that music happen in the room, isn't that what it's all about? OK, so it's understandable that something like the full-banana MBL system (with its seven huge electronics boxes looking like enormous packets of John Player Special and its vast wardrobe/Star Trek prop combination loudspeaker package) is a bit 'challenging' for our Puritan-infused tastes, but not everyone had our wash-your-face-in-cold-water upbringing. And, it sounds like nothing you've heard before from hi-fi... in a good way. OK, it costs as much as a house so it damn well should sound amazing, but out of that comes things that mere hedge fund managers can afford.
I'm pretty sure that some of you here have a small (or not so small) 'museum' of audio products not in current use. You may well have no plans to put them into future use, yet hang on to them because they have some kind of resonance for you. Perhaps they remind you of bygone times, or you just like the cool look of that sweeeet Rogers Cadet that you just can't part with. Surely, if it's all just about the tools, then why keep hold of these old bits of kit?
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 00:11
Hi Alan,
I appreciate the time you've taken to reply. If I may address some other points you've raised:
Lol... I've never even heard of The Weavers Reunion Concert, but we'll leave that one there! I get what you're saying, but would it hurt to reduce coverage of 'footballer's wife' priced gear, just a little, and feature more practical articles, for a change, that 'normal' people can relate to and derive some *real* benefit from?
We try to cover products in the hundreds as well as the thousands and tens of thousands. I strive to have an average price of around £6-8k, to maximise both UK and R-O-W markets, but it's difficult. I try to limit those in the £50k and above region and seriously limit the £100k and above to one or two a year.
However, we have both the advantage and disadvantage of being in everyone's second language and consequently we are in a constant niche battle for readers, not only with rival UK mags, but with US, Canadian and Australian mags, as well as a couple of direct translation mags in Germany. As such, if I put in a call for a £10,000 preamp or a £50,000 loudspeaker, I can be fairly confident the mag will likely get the first or second bite at that cherry in the UK and possibly the third or fourth world wide. If I do the same for a £500 integrated amplifier, the magazine will be about 10th in line on the international circuit, and at least two, possibly four of those titles will be in the UK.
Is there really any worth to you or me to see a regular section of reviews running somewhere between three and six months after the first UK reviews? Given that a useful revenue stream to the magazine is PDF reprint sales of reviews, who's going to bother buying reprints long after the brochure has been printed? This is why we get the KEF Blade relatively quickly, but will run the LS50 eventually.
That's an interesting insight into the mentality of people from other nations, particularly those in the East, and for me, rather sad and shocking in equal measure.
Sorry, isn't it a well-known fact that our oriental friends buy up all the vintage Tannoys, Quad amps, SP10 turntables, vintage SPU cartridges, etc, etc, so I don't get what you mean by "new retro, not old classics"... Could you expand on that?
Japan is a tiny market for Hi-Fi+, as it is for most magazines that aren't Japanese. Yes, the Japanese specialist market has its watch set firmly on 1950s time and pays top dollar for that, but it's a law unto itself and completely at odds with much of the rest of Asia. The whole 'new rich' and 'aspiring middle class' happened there in the 1960s.
I get that, of course, but what I'm more interested in is the need for individuals to always have the new toy... For me, it smacks of insecurity and a need to 'impress' one's peers, both of which are unhealthy traits.
It's the bit in bold that bothers me most, and what I see currently as the audio press joining in the 'feeding frenzy', instead of adopting a more helpful approach. What's your view? :)
Marco.
UK magazines in general and Hi-Fi+ in particular are viewed as always being two issues away from trying to restart some kind of new Flat Earth cult. Roy's former passion for Nordost still resonates. Mention the same product two issues in a row and we get the "here we go again" emails. I probably overcompensate.
Spectral Morn
17-01-2013, 00:12
I love this ad from MBL 'The MBL Corporate Ad'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EN0fkNp4WLs&list=PL31DFBC08D5460C69&index=1
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 00:28
Yes, but ultimately, Mark, a business has to be about more than just making money, because as sure as eggs is eggs, when you concentrate purely on profit, at the expense of generating creative ideas which help keep the business alive, that's when the money making stops and the business fails!
If ran my own art and picture-framing business, purely as a money-making exercise, in doing so I'd end up losing the core customers who help keep the business afloat, as I'd no longer be catering for their specific needs, and why they chose to use my company's services in the first place. That's essentially what's happened with the way hi-fi mags, such as Hi-Fi+, have treated the UK market, and the readership that supported them from day one.
Sorry, Alan, but that's the way it looks to me, my friend....
Marco.
It's not concentration on profit. It's concentration on survival. Ultimately, the direction we have taken comes down to WHSmiths forcing our hand to look elsewhere. If we want to double the circulation of the magazine in the UK, we would need to change the editorial direction. That's relatively easy. But we would also need to probably triple the number of branches of WHS the magazine goes into. That isn't just costly, it would put us out of business before a single magazine went into the stores.
So instead, we smile sweetly as it's announced that we need to spend the equivalent of six months worth of the money we get from the WHS to promote the magazine this year (because if we don't pay that sum, the magazine will be in precisely no branches of WHS). In return, we get a week and a bit supposedly in a better location in a dozen marginal branches and unless that amounts to a 200% increase in sales not only in those shops, but also in neighbouring stores, we get cut from another 50 branches.
When last I saw Noel Keywood at HFW, that was pretty much the sole topic of conversation. In fact, it wasn't really even a conversation, just a stream of four letter words repeated over and over again from the both of us. And Noel isn't normally one with the curse-words. As for me, I just sounded like an angry Malcolm Tucker.
Some excellent comments there, Alan - much appreciated. I'll get to them tomorrow. Right now, I have an urgent appointment with my electric blanket and a nice warm duvet! :goodnight:
Marco.
Spectral Morn
17-01-2013, 00:37
It's not concentration on profit. It's concentration on survival. Ultimately, the direction we have taken comes down to WHSmiths forcing our hand to look elsewhere. If we want to double the circulation of the magazine in the UK, we would need to change the editorial direction. That's relatively easy. But we would also need to probably triple the number of branches of WHS the magazine goes into. That isn't just costly, it would put us out of business before a single magazine went into the stores.
So instead, we smile sweetly as it's announced that we need to spend the equivalent of six months worth of the money we get from the WHS to promote the magazine this year (because if we don't pay that sum, the magazine will be in precisely no branches of WHS). In return, we get a week and a bit supposedly in a better location in a dozen marginal branches and unless that amounts to a 200% increase in sales not only in those shops, but also in neighbouring stores, we get cut from another 50 branches.
When last I saw Noel Keywood at HFW, that was pretty much the sole topic of conversation. In fact, it wasn't really even a conversation, just a stream of four letter words repeated over and over again from the both of us. And Noel isn't normally one with the curse-words. As for me, I just sounded like an angry Malcolm Tucker.
I was aware of companies having to pay for product placement in supermarkets (not ethical in my view) but not news agents - frankly that is disgusting that you should have to pay for the magazine to be on the shelves of WHS. So they make a profit twice for magazines sold and profit if not sold. I am not surprised expletives were used in talking about this.
Regards Neil
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 00:51
I was aware of companies having to pay for product placement in supermarkets (not ethical in my view) but not news agents - frankly that is disgusting that you should have to pay for the magazine to be on the shelves of WHS. So they make a profit twice for magazines sold and profit if not sold. I am not surprised expletives were used in talking about this.
Regards Neil
It learned a lot when it had its supposed NDE in the wake of Woollies. It went from being an old-fashioned newsagent to the Corleone family in the space of a year. A lot of the smaller publishing houses are either going under, giving up or looking abroad as a result.
Hi-fi titles are at least slightly lucky in that the sector is too small to warrant a flood of bookazines. I know guys working on magazines who have been thrown off the shelves of hundreds of stores by their own work. And if they didn't construct the agent of their own demise, they get thrown out anyway because someone else will.
The iPad is our saving grace in a way. Unfortunately for the whole 'play to the home crowd' idea, our iPad home crowd is mostly American.
You paint a bleak picture Alan and I do have some sympathy with your situation but ultimately the result is the same, a magazine that can't afford to appeal to its home market.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 01:16
You paint a bleak picture Alan and I do have some sympathy with your situation but ultimately the result is the same, a magazine that can't afford to appeal to its home market.
Not necessarily, I think we've balanced the demands of a sector of the home market with the demands of the foreign market. Remember, we already have many rival magazines and we are all competing for slices of the same niche.
That sector is not necessarily relevant here, but I wonder now if a magazine that catered for the demands of a forum group would be sustainable, as the needs of that forum is met by the forum.
It's perhaps a reason why the magazines that are doing better in the main are focusing on either the low or high-end, because they are the sectors not best covered by the forums. If you want to know about the latest £200 DAC, chances are someone here will get hold of one soon. If you want to know about the latest £10,000 DAC, you might have a long wait. Which is where we come in.
TBPH, this wasn't something I considered in the slightest until now, but it seems to make sense.
That's a good point. Anyway, I'm off to bed now. Take care Alan and I'll catch you next time your online no doubt. Goodnight ;)
Alan - is Hi-Fi+ available on Zinio (http://gb.zinio.com/)?
One of my key irritants is magazines that don't make their digital publications available on Zinio (pretty much an industry standard now) so that they can be grouped and read together with other mags on all platforms - Microsoft, Apple and Android. Hi-Fi News gets on my nerves because they have their own web-based reader. Who needs another one? It truly puts me off subscribing and there may be others who feel the same way.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 09:23
Alan - is Hi-Fi+ available on Zinio (http://gb.zinio.com/)?
One of my key irritants is magazines that don't make their digital publications available on Zinio (pretty much an industry standard now) so that they can be grouped and read together with other mags on all platforms - Microsoft, Apple and Android. Hi-Fi News gets on my nerves because they have their own web-based reader. Who needs another one? It truly puts me off subscribing and there may be others who feel the same way.
Last time I checked... no, and it's been one of our biggest battles with our American counterparts. We have a standalone MagCloner app instead. We only got that under sufferance; the US office is designing its own software and we were asked to wait for that. After some not inconsiderable intercontinental wrangling, we were allowed to go it alone, but were not given a green light to go with Zinio.
Had we not gone with the MagCloner app, we would still be waiting. And we still wouldn't be on Zinio. I have no idea why.
Edit: Actually, I think I can guess why. As MagCloner fits well with Apple Newsstand, it makes the app inherently subscription based (Apple prefers subscriptions to one-off purchases). This is the model all American publishers prefer to follow, because they simply can't understand newsagents and browsing. MagCloner gives us a small visibility advantage on Apple's Newsstand over magazines 'buried' within Zinio, but fitting into Apple's rigid pay schedule has made my life something of a living hell.
In addition, I believe Zinio's payout is considerably lower than going it alone. MagCloner takes 30% of whatever we make. I think Zinio takes 50%, which is fine if Apple isn't the main platform for this, because it takes an additional 30% regardless.
Alan - is Hi-Fi+ available on Zinio (http://gb.zinio.com/)?
One of my key irritants is magazines that don't make their digital publications available on Zinio (pretty much an industry standard now) so that they can be grouped and read together with other mags on all platforms - Microsoft, Apple and Android. Hi-Fi News gets on my nerves because they have their own web-based reader. Who needs another one? It truly puts me off subscribing and there may be others who feel the same way.
Took a look at the Zinio sajt. Did a search for the word HiFi...
One of the first hits was an article from "Gay Times" ...
Don't know what to make of this... Still perplexed... :scratch:
Anyways, the MagCloner app works really beautifully on my iThingies as I s'pose it also does on Android... I also believe HiFi News is using the same app?
Regards
//Mike
Floyddroid
17-01-2013, 09:40
I am a HFW man too. It's the only real world hifi mag left to be honest. I do miss Adam Smiths collumn very much as i always felt a bit of a kindred spirit in him. I used to read yours too many years ago Alan and even remember exchanging nerdisms at a hifi show with you. I think it is richer without DP's input and think Noel does a great job. I have every copy since the first one in the shed and all but one of the diy supplements. been meaning to change to the online version but being as old fashioned as i am i enjoy reading it in paper form and of course collecting them.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 10:18
I completely agree, Neil. It was a breath of fresh air when it first came out. I have copies of about the first 50 issues, all in mint condition.
Do you remember that there was even a restaurant review in the first or second issue (or both)? I can't remember... It was a magazine for *real* enthusiasts then, though, with all sorts of genuinely interesting articles and lateral thinking in evidence!
Marco.
The reason why restaurant reviews didn't make it much past the second issue is to say they didn't play well with readers is something close to massive understatement. It's pretty much the same with anything that isn't hi-fi in a hi-fi magazine.
It's something Ken Kessler and I agree on. There are two sides to the audio industry - the enthusiasts and the luxury market. The enthusiasts want products made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts and don't want anything to get in the way of that enthusiasm. Most of the world isn't that single-minded any more.
If I could, I'd build a magazine more like Guitar Aficionado. Focused on the topic, ideally through the exponents of the topic, but also including all the things that register as common interests. For example, practically every audio forum has a photographic section, because those two interests are in lockstep with one another. When last we ran a reader's survey, about 80% of those who wrote in put down photography as one of their other interests, but less than 20% read any kind of photo mag or website. And yet, unless it's somewhat clunkily woven into a review of a piece of hi-fi, anything photographic inside the magazine is a 'cancel my subscription' moment.
I'm not talking six page features on lighting the nude or photoshop tutorials, but a page of 'objects of desire' that weren't hi-fi related. Even before we had a page cull, these things are received by the readership with the same enthusiasm as a squirt of bleach to the eyes.
Hi Alan,
I don't think there's enough audio enthusiasts left for there to be a 'vast majority' of them.
Well, let's call it the vast majority of what's left! ;)
As an example, no disrespect, but how many people, totalling around 40,000, on the three main UK hi-fi forums (here, pfm and Wigwam), would you think would be the slightest bit interested in the bollocks you describe below, other than to ridicule its absurdity:
I don't think we've even got near the upper limits yet. No matter how large, how heavy or how expensive it is, there's always someone building something bigger, heavier and more expensive. There was a $50,000 equipment rack from Magico, which is the result of requests from top-tier Magico owners. Wilson makes a $200,000 loudspeaker, now Avalon builds a $300,000 one. Gabi from Crystal Cable admitted to me that they had just sold the first full kilometre of Absolute Dream (retailing at around $10,000 per metre), despite only being on the market for less than a year.
:rolleyes: :mental:
Why is hi-fi aspirational? Well, that's the thing. It isn't here, and the result is a lot of good audio brands are bumping along the bottom. Face it; people buy aspirational now, and if hi-fi isn't aspirational, they don't buy.
Yes, but that's what is wrong with society today. People have an unhealthy obsession with material possessions, and see their 'status' in life as somehow being reflected by the amount of shiny 'show-offy' things that they own. Others and I couldn't be more unlike that. To use a hi-fi system in that way, for example, is at best comical, and at worst mentally disturbing.
I can honestly say that I've never aspired to own anything in my life. Yes, I like having nice things, and I work hard to earn them, but anything nice that I own (house, car, hi-fi, etc) has simply arrived of its own accord, as a natural consequence of my hard work. It's not something I've planned. I've never lay at night in bed 'aspiring' to own any material possession, or worse, allowing that desire to dominate or negatively influence my life.
To do otherwise, and see expensive possessions as a 'badge of success' is, IMO, deeply unhealthy. The Chinese, in that respect, given what I've read here, have big problems!!
It's why sales of Nexus 7 tablets suddenly went up fiftyfold in Q4 2012. They'd been in circulation since the summer, but they weren't cool and sold in dribs and drabs. Then the iPad Mini came out to a 'Meh!' and sales took off. Now people have had them for a while, the iPad Mini is starting to pick up again. Has anything materially changed in either device for these shifts in fortunes? No, just fashion and aspiration.
Yes, but magazines pandering to such nonsense merely feeds the frenzy, rather than educating the 'victims' to know better and appreciate what *should* matter much MORE! Becoming a 'technology tart', or a slave to fashion or aspiration, as described above, and allowing it to control my decision making and dominate my existence, is something I will never do.
I'd like to see the audio press take more of a responsible and educational stance, in terms of showing people how to get the most from their systems, in terms of set-up and the achieving of synergy, etc, as let's face it, judging by much of the input on forums, many don't have a clue (so there must be a market for what I'm suggesting), rather than simply adding to the problem by feeding people's (often unhealthy) aspiration-orientated proclivities. There's so much beneficial stuff that could be done by magazines to genuinely help real enthusiasts, if only the will was there from those in charge to do it.......
The thing is, why shouldn't hi-fi be something more than a tool? Loudspeakers are generally big and imposing, shouldn't people have at least the option of them being elegant too?
Yes, of course. I've got nothing against that, but there's a big difference between 'Johnny', with his Wilson Grand Slamms (or whatever) in a room with 5 CDs in it (all test discs, apart from a free classical CD that once came with The Sunday Times), who makes sure that everyone visiting (and there aren't usually that many) see his speakers and system and tells them how expensive it is - oh yes siree, check it out the receipt, old chap - and the other 'Johnny' who owns the same items, but has 2000 CDs, and who invites his mates over for regular sessions to listen to music, and never discusses the cost of his speakers.
The subject never comes up, as it's not important, and the focus instead is on everyone having a good time listening to their favourite 'choons'. Believe me, both those types of people exit in real life. The latter are normal, and the former are simply tits with more money than sense - nothing else!! :exactly:
One of hi-fi's biggest turn-offs for real people is a lot of it looks as ugly as a bag of spanners. That's fine if you want your man cave to look like the set of Das Boot, but if someone wants something to look as good as it sounds and is willing to pay for the privilege, why should that be so distasteful?
That's not distasteful in the slightest, and so I have no problem with that. I've already covered what it is I have a problem with, or rather not so much a problem with, as people are entitled to do what they want with their own money, but I simply find the behaviour I referred to earlier rather vulgar and somewhat risible. It's also what's largely responsible for the magazines becoming what they are now. The creation of 'Hi-fi jewellery' has a lot to answer for!
If you enjoy the music, and enjoy how you make that music happen in the room, isn't that what it's all about?
Absolutely. But it doesn't take systems that cost the price of a house for that to happen. Quite simply there is no reason other than seeking to make a 'design statement', or to pander to the materialistic sensibilities of the 'aspirational classes', why ANY piece of hi-fi equipment should cost more than, say, £20k. It's as simple as that, because you can be damn sure that if it does, you're not paying for the most important thing in a piece of audio equipment, and that's what's happening 'underneath the hood'! ;)
I'm pretty sure that some of you here have a small (or not so small) 'museum' of audio products not in current use. You may well have no plans to put them into future use, yet hang on to them because they have some kind of resonance for you. Perhaps they remind you of bygone times, or you just like the cool look of that sweeeet Rogers Cadet that you just can't part with. Surely, if it's all just about the tools, then why keep hold of these old bits of kit?
That doesn't apply to me. Every bit of kit I own, I use, and neither do I suffer from the effects of nostalgia. I can't, simply because I wasn't around when a lot of the stuff I use was in its heyday...
I use quality vintage gear and modify it with the best modern components because, to my ears, it outperforms most of what is made today, commercially, at prices that I consider 'rational', i.e. up to the £20k threshold I mention earlier (an amount that, if necessary, I could afford with relative ease), although I have yet to spend more than £6.5k on any one piece of kit. Quite simply, I haven't felt it warranted.
No, Alan, I don't collect 'museum pieces'; I buy high-quality instruments for reproducing recorded music, new or old, some of which may just happen to look nice!! :cool:
Marco.
There are two sides to the audio industry - the enthusiasts and the luxury market. The enthusiasts want products made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts and don't want anything to get in the way of that enthusiasm.
Sounds to me like a great idea for a magazine!! :)
Seriously though, I can't see why such a publication, if done right, wouldn't be a success, at least in the UK, as I believe that here, in terms of who is currently buying hi-fi magazines, there are more folk who would fit into the above category than those who populate what you describe as the "luxury market".
Marco.
One conclusion I've drawn from this discussion is that big business and the marketing men are winning hands down and in the process they are stifling innovation in the name of style. The conglomerates are now so powerful they tell us what we need rather than ask us what we want. Take the music market for instance, it is in the major music labels interests to promote downloads as there are no manufacturing overheads to worry about. The general customer base should shoulder some of the blame for this because like Magpie's, we can't resist the allure of a shiny bauble.
Beobloke
17-01-2013, 10:58
....it doesn't take systems that cost the price of a house for that to happen....
I take your point about VFM Marco, but I'm not sure about the above statement.
As you know, I have far too much old hi-fi, purely because I like trying different equipment and I do enjoy experiencing different loudspeakers. My own (modern reference) speakers are around £3000 retail and I also use the old Ferrographs regularly that I have mentioned on here before - equally affordable and responded well to tweaking. I thoroughly enjoy listening to them both.
But if we move the topic onto the best loudspeakers I have ever heard then I can answer instantly with a pair that cost £215,000 and are over six feet tall. I actually flew back from Munich where I heard them in 2008 slightly depressed as I had never heard such astonishing sound before and realised that I probably never would again (and I haven't so far!). I cannot afford anywhere near £215,000 and wouldn't have a room (or more accurately, a small hall...) that would do them justice if I did suddenly decide to throw caution to the wind and beg my bank manager for a loan!
However, this doesn't stop them from being an aspirational product for me. I certainly don't lay awake at night dreaming of them and getting all upset that I can't afford them but, equally, I know that, should I ever come into a large sum of money, I'll buy them without a second's hestitation. I am sure this will never happen but, frankly, I'm glad they exist, purely so that I know they are there if my circumstances change.
It's the same thing with any topic - I like cars and I'll probably never afford an Aston Martin or Ferrari but it doesn't stop me going a bit gooey whenever I read about a new one!
That's fine, Adam. I respect that. I just have a rather different mentality.
I also, hand on heart, have never been to any hi-fi show and heard a system that I would swap, in terms of SQ, for what I'm using at home. Most of it, no matter how fantastic the individual components making up the system are, is spoiled by poor (or rather less than I would consider optimal) set-up. Hotels are never the best of places to demonstrate kit to the best of its capability.
I'm glad that you were so impressed with those £215,000 speakers. Would I have felt the same? I'm not sure..... Hey, at least you don't take your 'aspirational tendencies' to the ridiculous levels of the Chinese!! :mental:
What the fook is wrong with those people? :doh:
Marco.
One conclusion I've drawn from this discussion is that big business and the marketing men are winning hands down and in the process they are stifling innovation in the name of style. The conglomerates are now so powerful they tell us what we need rather than ask us what we want. Take the music market for instance, it is in the major music labels interests to promote downloads as there are no manufacturing overheads to worry about. The general customer base should shoulder some of the blame for this because like Magpie's, we can't resist the allure of a shiny bauble.
+1, with very big bells on!!!
That's precisely what's wrong not only with the audio industry today, but with society as a whole, and I will continue to divorce myself from the effects of it to the utmost of my ability. I will be the one staying in control of my decisions in life - no other bugger!!
Marco.
That's fine, Adam. I respect that. I just have a rather different mentality. At least you don't take your 'aspirational tendencies' to the ridiculous levels of the Chinese!! :mental:
What the fook is wrong with those people? :doh:
Marco.
It's a reaction to their history and what was allowable and acceptable in the past. Certainly their cultural history is very diiferent to ours!
Dingdong
17-01-2013, 11:16
That's fine, Adam. I respect that. I just have a rather different mentality. At least you don't take your 'aspirational tendencies' to the ridculous levels of the Chinese!! :mental:
What the fook is wrong with those people? :doh:
Marco.
Perhaps after many years of being poor they want summat new and shiny.
'Tis a different culture. They probably don't understand peoples desire for what they see as old tat.
Last time I checked... no, and it's been one of our biggest battles with our American counterparts.
Ok, thanks. So not much chance of your appearing on Zinio in the near future? I'll have a think about whether to subscribe to yet another delivery system. It's going to depend on whether I can get it as a Windows 8 / Windows Phone 8 app.
Perhaps after many years of being poor they want summat new and shiny.
'Tis a different culture. They probably don't understand peoples desire for what they see as old tat.
Sure, I guess I can understand that, and what Clive has also outlined. Still, it doesn't excuse those in the West, devoid of the effects of such culture, who have similarly 'warped' priorities! ;)
Marco.
Dingdong
17-01-2013, 11:39
I know. I'm not one for buying the latest and greatest regularly. I'm glad some do though as it keeps new products coming into the second hand market.
As I said. If anybody wants to by a new mc cartridge to try and sell it to me in a few months that would be cool.
I know. I'm not one for buying the latest and greatest regularly.
I would suspect, Mark, that neither too are most people here.
This whole 'aspiration thing', I believe, is a disease which largely afflicts the 'nouveau riche', particularly those who previously had nothing (such as many lottery winners and the likes of footballers), and now want to show the whole world that they are, to borrow Harry Enfield parlance: 'considerably richer than yow'.
Given the nature of my conservative upbringing, and not exactly being a pauper either, I've always found ostentatious shows of wealth, such as described above, rather crass and vulgar.
Marco.
Dingdong
17-01-2013, 13:40
I would suspect, Mark, that neither too are most people here.
This whole 'aspiration thing', I believe, is a disease which largely afflicts the 'nouveau riche', particularly those who previously had nothing (such as many lottery winners and the likes of footballers), and now want to show the whole world that they are, to borrow Harry Enfield parlance: 'considerably richer than yow'.
Given the nature of my conservative upbringing, and not exactly being a pauper either, I've always found ostentatious shows of wealth, such as described above, rather crass and vulgar.
Marco.
My thoughts are along similar lines, but I'm happy people are splashing cash on new stuff as it keeps the industry going and there is more 2nd hand stuff for poor people like me.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 13:50
Hi Alan,
Well, let's call it the vast majority of what's left! ;)
As an example, how many people, totalling around 40,000, on the three main UK hi-fi forums (here, pfm and Wigwam), would you think would be the slightest bit interested in the bollocks you describe below, other than to ridicule its absurdity:
Except it's not 40,000 really, is it. The reality is most times it's the same few hundred souls posting on the same forums, sometimes under different identities. And it's been the same few hundred souls - more or less - that have been posting on forums for years. Yes, if you sum all the people who join up, lurk, one question and outers, drive-bys, the multiple identities and sockpuppets of all three forums, you get to 40,000 names. If I use the same creative accounting practices, I can pretty much say we get 280,000+ readers. They are both bullshit numbers.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and adopt the five per cent rule - that means maybe 2,000 regular forum goers across the UK.
In answer to your question, how many people in the UK are buyers in that extreme high-end category? About 50 at last count (it's gone up slightly, as wealthy Greeks escape extreme austerity for just regular austerity). Which is why we limit the number of extreme high-end products in the magazine.
Yes, the forums will ridicule the extreme high-end because the forums get off on ridiculing things. Expensive things are soft targets for ridicule. Unless forum users own the expensive things - try being all high-minded about big budget Kondo at Wigwam and see how well that works out.
But here's the thing. I know roughly how many Audio Research products have sold in the UK in the last five or so years. If the forums were representative of the market proper, there should be around eight times as many ARC users as Kondo users. Not the other way round. I know how roughly how many loudspeakers B&W sell in the UK and there should be about 200-250 forum users with B&W (and about another 200 with Monitor Audio or KEF) as a rough estimate. They should be a louder voice in this community, but instead are uncommonly silent.
So, given there's so many misrepresented, under-represented and even unrepresented audio communities in the forums, I'm thinking the animosity toward high-end is just another example of this.
Yes, but that's what is wrong with society today. People have an unhealthy obsession with material possessions, and see their 'status' in life as somehow being reflected by the amount of 'show-offy' thing that they own. Others and I couldn't be more unlike that. To use a hi-fi system in that way, for example, is at best comical, and at worst mentally disturbing.
I can honestly say that I've never aspired to own anything in my life. Yes, I like having nice things, and I work hard to earn them, but anything nice that I own (house, car, hi-fi, etc) has simply arrived of its own accord, as a natural consequence of my hard work. It's not something I've planned. I've never lay at night in bed 'aspiring' to own any material possession, or worse, allowing it to dominate or negatively influence my life.
To do otherwise, and see expensive material possessions as a 'badge of success' is, IMO, deeply unhealthy. The Chinese, in that respect, given what I've read here, have big problems!!
In other words, "if you were born in the gutter, stay there!"
Society's obsession with 'things' is a concern, but at least it's not as vapid as its even more transient obsession with celebrity. You may have the luxury of living off grid in this respect; I don't.
Yes, but magazines pandering to such nonsense merely feeds the frenzy, rather than educating the victims to know better and appreciate what *should* matter most in life!
I'd like to see the audio press take more of an educational stance, in terms of showing people how to get the most from their systems, in terms of set-up and the achieving of synergy, etc, as let's face it, judging by much of the input on forums, many don't have a clue (so there must be a market for what I'm suggesting), rather than simply adding to the problem by feeding people's (often unhealthy) aspiration-orientated mentality.
Been there, done that. Doesn't work anymore. Hasn't worked since the late 1980s. I'm still trying, the next one is room acoustics (again). The last time it was match abandoned because it was deemed 'boring'.
People don't react well to post-education education anymore. They see it as being preachy. Some of the early computer audio features I ran were well received, but when we did an update a year later, it fell on stony ground because 'we know all about that'.
Yes, of course. I've got nothing against that, but there's a big difference between 'Johnny', with his Wilson Grand Slamms (or whatever) in a room with 5CDs in it (all test discs, apart from a free classical CD that once came with The Sunday Times), who makes sure that everyone visiting (and there aren't usually that many) see his speakers and system and tells them how expensive it is, and the other 'Johnny' who owns the same items, but has 2000CDs, and who invites his mates over for regular sessions to listen to music, and never discusses the cost of his speakers.
The subject never comes up, as it's not important, and the focus instead is on everyone having a good time listening to the favourite 'choons'. Believe me, both those types of people exit in real life. The former are simply tits with more money than sense - nothing else!! :exactly:
This old saw. It's a nonsense. I know many of the high-end audio owners personally. Only one of them has a music collection less than 10,000 strong. One of them introduced me to the concept of CABLE (Collection Acquisition Beyond Life Expectancy) because you walk through his record library to get to the music system. I reckon he had at least one record for every dollar (American guy) he spent on his system, and I figured his system was close to a quarter of a million dollars.
Another guy I know with the best dCS/Spectral/Avalon system on the planet was so upset by the quality of current recordings that he started his on music label, and routinely hires good orchestras to play. Are these really the actions of someone with no interest in music?
That's not distasteful in the slightest, and so I have no problem with that. I've already covered what it is I have a problem with, or rather not so much a problem, as people are entitled to do what they want with their own money, but I simply find their behaviour risible in the extreme.
Isn't that just inverted snobbery? Aren't you just making the fundamental error of looking at everyone through your own viewpoint (and price point) and then criticising those who don't think like you do?
Absolutely. But it doesn't take systems that cost the price of a house for that to happen. Quite simply there is no reason other than seeking to make a 'design statement', or to pander to the materialistic sensibilities of 'aspirational classes', why ANY piece of hi-fi equipment should cost more than, say, £20k. It's as simple as that, because you can be damn sure that if it does, you're not paying for the most important thing in a piece of audio equipment, and that's what's happening 'underneath the hood'! ;)
Yes, you can get excellent performance without spending a fortune. But not exceptional performance. You think beyond £20k lies Veblen goods and vanity products, and yes, those products do exist. They tend to come and go. But I'm sorry, I've heard no turntable that sounds better than a Kuzma Stabi XL4 with an Airline or a 4Point and something like a Air Tight, a Benz a Dynavector or a Lyra cartridge on it, and I have heard a lot of turntables. There are all manner of good turntables, some old, some new, some cheap, some expensive, some extremely expensive. For me, the best turntable I know of is that Kuzma. It makes EVERYTHING else I have heard or owned sound coloured, undynamic, flat, uninspiring, boring (or over-excited) and just wrong. Granted not by a significant amount in some cases, but enough that it means anything else I've heard to date is a compromise; some are close compromises - especially a well-honed Technics SP10 and the Artemis Labs IMO, which get about 75% of the way there - but a compromise nonetheless.
So, that's at least one £20k+ product that I would argue simply destroys any argument about some arbitrary price ceiling. It's far from alone; there are a number of products that aren't desirable just because they are expensive, but because they are extremely good at what they are supposed to do. Anyone who actually spends some time with these top-flight products (instead of merely ticking them off as a list of 'seen' products at a show) would place them in the 'it gets no better than this' category, even if they were not ultimately products that were to their liking. Unless, of course, they simply object to such things because on the grounds of ideology alone.
That doesn't apply to me. Every bit of kit I've got, I use, and neither do I suffer from the effects of illogical nostalgia. I can't, simply because I wasn't born when a lot of the stuff I use was first created... I use quality vintage gear and modify it with the best modern components because, to my ears, it outperforms most of what is made today, at prices that I would call 'rational', i.e. up to the £20k threshold I mention earlier, although I have yet to spend more than £6.5k on any one piece of kit.
No, Alan, I don't collect 'museum pieces'; I buy high-quality audio instruments for reproducing music, new or old, some of which may just happen to look nice!!
Marco.
IMO, I'm not a big fan of modding. If something is worth doing right, it's worth doing right at source. If you feel the urge to tinker, it's likely you've stumbled on something that doesn't sound good and it's a toss up whether you end up with a sound better or worse than you started with. The problem is myopia; you've spent so long tweaking and modding your pride and joy that you can't see that all you've made in the process is a Barry'd up Vauxhall Nova.
That said, the drive to tinker with stuff is what keeps the accessories business in business.
To each his own.
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 13:51
Sounds to me like a great idea for a magazine!! :)
Seriously though, I can't see why such a publication, if done right, wouldn't be a success, at least in the UK, as I believe that here, in terms of who is currently buying hi-fi magazines, there are more folk who would fit into the above category than those who populate what you describe as the "luxury market".
Marco.
Because the enthusiasts don't even agree with the other enthusiasts any more.
Every time I run a review of a turntable, I get emails from those who tell me they will never buy a magazine that still supports legacy dinosaurs. Every time I don't, I get emails from those who tell me they will never buy a magazine that doesn't understand that digital strangles music at birth. If I review a USB cable, I get complaints from those who think the idea USB cables can have a sound is absurd and I'm in bed with the cable companies, if I don't, I'm "soft" on cables and in bed with the computer companies.
Either you take a side and hope it stays with you, or you go with the flow and have massive variance in circulation. Either way, the numbers don't add up anymore.
Seriously. No win situation.
Hi Alan,
Again thanks for your considered responses. I'll get to them later, after I've actually done some work for a change! :eyebrows:
One quick point I'd make is that, judging from what you've written, it's obvious that you REALLY don't know me very well (and why should you?) otherwise you wouldn't have written some of the things you did... ;)
Laters, muchacho!
Marco.
My thoughts are along similar lines, but I'm happy people are splashing cash on new stuff as it keeps the industry going and there is more 2nd hand stuff for poor people like me.
Sure, I get that. It's just this whole 'showy-offy' thing of one's material possessions I don't get, together with the concept of 'aspiration'. The former just makes me cringe. The latter I have great difficulty relating to.
I was reading a thread once on pfm, about expensive watches, and I remember someone (a certain well-known consultant physician who posts there) saying that the reason he owned a Patek Philippe was so that he could 'send a signal' (a nod of approval, if you will) to other expensive watch owners of a similar mentality, in order to indicate to them his social status... I kid you not!!
Just how ridiculous is that??? :lol:
I can't remember if my initial reaction at the time was to laugh or cry!! I think it was more likely the former.
What is it with these social climber/one-upmanship types? By all means own a nice watch, Patek Philippe, Louis Moinet, Rolex, or whatever, but own it for the RIGHT reasons: the fact that it is an exquisitely made Swiss timepiece and a beautiful thing to behold, NOT to indulge in vulgar games of snobbery - and I would say the same to those who buy ludicrously expensive 'hi-fi jewellery', whom I've often seen guilty of the same odiously pretentious behaviour.
If those people would do that, instead of behaving like dickheads, they'd be respected, rather than ridiculed...! That's something that Alan, given some of his earlier comments, should perhaps think about ;)
Right, chaps, I must go and earn some money to pay for my new Air Tight cartridge!!
Marco.
Dingdong
17-01-2013, 14:39
Must admit to liking the look of some of the Pateks. But I'll stick with my not so blingy Rolex I've had for 20 years.
I bought it as something that would last me a lifetime, and it's stood up to quite a bit so far.
Alan, you have been very forthcoming about why HiFi+ is what it is today and I, for one, appreciate your honesty and candour. Having said that, what changes would you make to + if you were not bound by the factors you have mentioned in this thread? Would it be a vastly different format to what it is at present if you had free reign to do whatever you wanted?
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 15:25
Alan, you have been very forthcoming about why HiFi+ is what it is today and I, for one, appreciate your honesty and candour. Having said that, what changes would you make to + if you were not bound by the factors you have mentioned in this thread? Would it be a vastly different format to what it is at present if you had free reign to do whatever you wanted?
Yes, it would.
Here's how I'd take it. Start with a few pages of letters, beginning with an editorial and ending with a one-page interview of someone notorious.
Objects of desire: mostly hi-fi, some anything that ticks the 'like-minded' boxes of enthusiasts. Then a feature or two (one how to, one discovery). Then an expanded music section (probably not more reviews, just more in each review) ending in a music feature or interview.
I'd concentrate product reviews on three areas of the market. Entry-level, high-quality headphone audio and the lower-mid regions of the high-end.
Reviews would vary in size from small capsule reviews (as in four floorstanders on a spread, each with a caption explaining why they are so fly in 100 words a piece) to a few really meaty reviews. Probably a lot less reviews than presently though. Include a regular spread on other man stuff (wine, dining, travel, fast cars, fashion, watches, guitars, cigars, etc). End each issue with either something way way cool in audio, or another one page interview.
Covers would usually have a human being on the front, probably a designer. Occasionally an audiophile.
I'd be surprised if it would survive three issues.
The issue that Alan has with WHS may be short term - wouldn't be surprised if they disappear from the high street soon.
I think I picked up from an earlier post that hifi+ circulation is only about 15% UK based so not surprising that the content isn't to everyone's liking.
Is it fair to suggest that the principals on this forum are 'modders' who attach greater emphasis on value for money which ultimately depends on how much you value your money. Looking at some USA forums vfm seems irrelevant - lucky them!
Interesting! You'd get a sub from me if that were the case. What are sales figures like from independent newsagents, do they still exist in significant numbers? If so, who are the big players in distribution these days?
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 15:45
Interesting! You'd get a sub from me if that were the case. What are sales figures like from independent newsagents, do they still exist in significant numbers? If so, who are the big players in distribution these days?
Big player in distribution, that'll be WHSmiths!
Indies... not so much anymore. They are all very strapped for cash, especially as the jazzmags on the top shelf don't move as much as they used to. They still buy, but when they used to by three on SOR and sell one, they buy just the one today. Going monthly might help here, but not convinced.
Perhaps it is time WHS had some competition, eh? ;)
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 15:55
The issue that Alan has with WHS may be short term - wouldn't be surprised if they disappear from the high street soon.
I think I picked up from an earlier post that hifi+ circulation is only about 15% UK based so not surprising that the content isn't to everyone's liking.
Is it fair to suggest that the principals on this forum are 'modders' who attach greater emphasis on value for money which ultimately depends on how much you value your money. Looking at some USA forums vfm seems irrelevant - lucky them!
I hope not. We'd lose about 7-10% percent of our sales from the loss of Smiths UK, and a further 40% from all those Smiths-owned newsagents in airports across the world, and the distribution lines it runs.
For the magazine world, losing Smiths would be second only to banning sales of paper in terms of catastrophe thinking.
Fortunately, the company's restructure and reboot in recent years has made it the nearest thing to high street gold. Though it pains me to say it because of what it's doing to our sector, we need it to survive.
Dingdong
17-01-2013, 15:57
Would it be possible to target an online version of the magazine to be more market specific? Keeping the main part of the mag the same but adding things that may appeal to a specific area of the world.
Maybe it could attract more specific advertising as well.
It probably wouldn't be feasible, but a 'pick 'n' mix' online mag where people could download a selection of articles which might interest them plus the more usual editorial features. Each module would be priced accordingly so you only pay for what you want over and above the core features. It would be a lot of work to produce however...
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 16:08
Would it be possible to target an online version of the magazine to be more market specific? Keeping the main part of the mag the same but adding things that may appeal to a specific area of the world.
Maybe it could attract more specific advertising as well.
Yes. It's something we are looking into. At the moment, Apple doesn't divulge that data readily, so we can't use geo-specific content. But that's said to change. In theory, we already have this provision on the website.
It's whether we have the content to be so geographically diverse!
Alan Sircom
17-01-2013, 16:14
It probably wouldn't be feasible, but a 'pick 'n' mix' online mag where people could download a selection of articles which might interest them plus the more usual editorial features. Each module would be priced accordingly so you only pay for what you want over and above the core features. It would be a lot of work to produce however...
Possibly a bit overthunked there! I know the Grauniad looked into targeted content and it ends up being unwieldy and unmanageable. You end up with things like the reader receiving the same three features six different ways because their metadata tags all kick off in the same way.
However, it's something we have provisioned in the site, just that the content management and delivery systems need to be razor-sharp, to prevent the default state of omnishambles.
Spectral Morn
17-01-2013, 16:20
WHS pulled out of Northern Ireland high street locations recently but kept their airport pitches in none of which - I might add - have I ever seen+ not even in the London airports, though my travel times might not have coincided with + being out yet.
So Easons is the big retailer here, with lots of small newsagents who mostly stock all the main HiFi magazines and + is in Easons and many smaller newsagents.
Easons even stocks Stereophile :)
'Overthunked' my new word of the day :D
Ammonite Audio
07-02-2013, 13:32
Just had a quick flick through the latest mags in WH Smiths, and I have to say that HiFi Choice now looks and reads well enough for me to buy it. Clearly the joint leadership of David Price and Paul Miller has worked wonders.
Rare Bird
07-02-2013, 18:41
Anyone got Hi-Fi World Dec 2012 mag?
hifi_dave
07-02-2013, 19:06
Yes, about to go in the re-cycling bin, along with January and February 2013.
Rare Bird
07-02-2013, 20:15
I want to have a look at the Sonik Sircle pick-Up arm mod Review
:)
Wakefield Turntables
07-02-2013, 20:15
Yes, about to go in the re-cycling bin, along with January and February 2013.
I must admit to be extremely saddened by the quality of this months mag, in fact it was pretty crap. I usually like reading hifi world but if it continues like this then I think i'll just be buying on an as and when basis rather than the sub that I have. Ah well, more money for vinyl. :D
I want to have a look at the Sonik Sircle pick-Up arm mod Review
I'm sure that Dave would send you the mag, for the cost of postage? :)
Marco.
I must admit to be extremely saddened by the quality of this months mag, in fact it was pretty crap. I usually like reading hifi world but if it continues like this then I think i'll just be buying on an as and when basis rather than the sub that I have. Ah well, more money for vinyl. :D
That has been my approach to all magazines for a couple of years now. Can't remember when I last bought either HFN or HFW.
hifi_dave
08-02-2013, 10:07
Anyone got Hi-Fi World Dec 2012 mag?
Found it.
PM me your address and I'll bung it in't post.
Very little to interest me in any Hi-Fi mag now, I don't think I spend any more than 20 minutes reading any of them. The latest HFW has a luke warm review of the latest Quad ESL and that was it for me. It's rapidly becoming 'Computer World' with home cinema products and tablet thingies in every issue. Throw in a couple of computer whatsits and there's nothing to interest me.
sq225917
08-02-2013, 10:47
The new Stereophile has a tiny picture of the new Rega uber deck hidden away on one of the listings pages. There's some stuff sometimes.
hifi_dave
08-02-2013, 11:04
But you wouldn't buy Stereophile for "a tiny picture".
I quite enjoy Stereophile as there is a lot more content and the technical reviews are more in depth than in the UK mags. However, I do get sick of all the telephone number equipment reviews in Stereophile and HFN. How many enthusiasts are in the market for £200K amps or £180K speakers ? I would like to see more in depth write ups of affordable equipment.
brian2957
08-02-2013, 11:23
I'll be buying this months HiFiChoice ( out tomorrow I think ) . It has a 5 star (recommended ) review of the music server built by Gary Jamieson who posts on here as Gazjam . I've been lucky enough to hear this server and it is absolutely stunning .
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/
Nice one, Gaz. That'll be worth looking at.
Thanks guys.
Ordered a few copies at my local WHSmith this morning. :)
I dont normally pick them up, but in this case I'll make an exception...
The new Stereophile has a tiny picture of the new Rega uber deck hidden away on one of the listings pages. There's some stuff sometimes.
Which one Simon, the RP10?
daytona600
08-02-2013, 14:28
tried wh smiths none yet . gary
Ammonite Audio
06-06-2013, 11:15
Just had a scan of the latest HiFi+ in the local Smiths Lending Library and, for once, I am going to buy a copy because it is filled with interesting and sensible articles. So, I feel that there is enough in this edition to justify the cost. Here's hoping that it's not a flash-in-the-pan and signals a broader and more relevant editorial stance. Of course, Alan Sircom does have to satisfy the overseas readership, which has rather more money than most of us, but here's hoping!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.