Advice needed, new digital front end

[Lee Henley]

Morning all

After going through the upgrade route for the analogue set up I can no longer listen to the digital set up so Ive decided this needs to be changed.

I find with the Audiolab CDQ that its a bit up front and has some digital harshness, also the sound is not as full as the analogue set up.

The CDQ was brought as it has a seperate DAC as well as a cd player which alows me to hook the mac mini and play Spotify or files from my hard drive.

The new digital front end can be a DAC only since I will get a transport, however if there is a suitable cd player on the market with an in built useable dac then throw that into the mix

Im pretty much open to ideas but dont want to break the bank in doing so, Id more than likely go for a secondhand device.

I would like to have a fairly laid back sound but not too "sleepy", with a wide soundstage

A product that I did look at was the Eastern Electric minimax cd player, this doesnt have the DAC but I could always buy something like a Beresford for when I play Spotify or lossless files.

Any help much appreciated

Lee

[DSJR]

Shilling alert!!!!!

I sincerely apologise for having to mention this item, but the Rega DAC is a goodie. I find the USB input fine, although others disagree, but the main thing is that it's been designed and tweaked by people well steeped in vinyl reproduction, so hf nasties/etched deeeeetails would not be on their agenda. In practice, it's a fine DAC, not liked by the Audiolab crowd because it's not demonstrative enough for them, but other music lovers love it to bits. it won't be plagued by constant software tweaks either, so one should be as near as darn it like another and Rega's service backup is legendary.

PLEASE give it a listen. You have Rega dealers around your location, so see if you can borrow a well used demo one for a weekend to try.....

[John]

If using Spdif then go for the Rega I have to disgree with David ( Sorry David) around the Rega USB input (i heard this in a review setting and we all agreed the Rega was not as good as the other DACS in USB mode) but sounds like you not going down this route and the the Rega will sound a lot better via SPDIF, also the bushmaster is an excellent DAC
There a thread on AOS around Transports so that might be a decent way to go
A few top of the range CD players I heard are Ayre the one Martin got is excellent Aero Captoile and the top of the range Merirdian sounded pretty good when I heard it but none of these are going to be cheap

[StanleyB]

A product that I did look at was the Eastern Electric minimax cd player, this doesnt have the DAC but I could always buy something like a Beresford for when I play Spotify or lossless files.

Any help much appreciated

Would an AoS discount for mentioning Beresford be of any help in your decision making :eyebrows:?

[worrasf]

Yes - the REGA DAC will give you what you need - I know I had one and thought it great - "very vinyl". A Beresford Bushmaster will give you what you need - I know - I moved the REGA on and bought one :)
(see http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=398279#post398279 post #21)

Stan do I get an extra extra Aos discount for mentioning Beresford :rolleyes:

Steve

[Lee Henley]

The Bushmaster does look a good option for sure

[Lee Henley]

I noticed that it doesn't have USB are they ok on optical out hooked upto a mini mac?

[roob]

Optical is not the best way to hook up a Mac imho, I prefer async usb.

[DSJR]

If using Spdif then go for the Rega I have to disgree with David ( Sorry David) around the Rega USB input (i heard this in a review setting and we all agreed the Rega was not as good as the other DACS in USB mode)

No need to apologise at all - I'm learning loads since I haven't quite got this far yet myself. The Rega may not be as good on USB as others, but it's certainly not BAD and is galvanically isolated so hopefully safe from any cr@p fed it by a typical computer...

I have so many FLAC's and WAV's saved upstairs it seems daft to burn countless CD's so I can play them down here, so I shall eventually need a DAC downstairs and, as the laptops we use are awful on their analogue outs (a "Windows PC" thing apparently unless you fit a soundcard) they'll have to be used wirelessly and then into a DAC. I can't do anything at the moment, since repairs and painting to the porch & house front comes first (a good few grand :(), but I AM keeping an open mind and count myself fortunate that I have Alex_UK not far away to give practical help when it all comes together :)

[Gazjam]

Having heard both the Rega and the Bushmaster they both sound good.
The Rega is a fair bit more expensive.

My Best advice is to hear both if you can in your own system.
They sound quite different and one may be more to your taste.

The Rega USB is extremely good, as it can't do 24/96 and up though I use a Vlink 192 for hires stuff.
Have to say I tried the USB and it has a quality I could be happy with for redbook stuff.

[John]

Even Rega admitted that they did not put as much into their USB input as they do not see this as getting the best out of the DAC
The HIFACE makes a difference but really if you spending that kind of money and using USB get something like the JK32 or the Schilt

[Lee Henley]

Well the CDQ is now sold and the search begins with around £800 to spend. Considered so far

Eastern Electric CDP
Bushmaster Dac
Audio note Dac or CDP (s/h)
Metrum Octave

I do fancy something with valves inside as I really like valves. I've heard the Rega Dac and it doesn't do it for me

Anyone throw something else into the mix, I recently missed a s/h Audionote cd 2.1x for £699, this would have been ideal

All the best

Lee

[Yomanze]

Of those options I would be most interested in the Metrum Octave DAC. £800 gives you a A LOT of choice though with some world-class DACs out there. What sort of transport are you using? These do make a difference even with reclocking DACs.

[Lee Henley]

Of those options I would be most interested in the Metrum Octave DAC. £800 gives you a A LOT of choice though with some world-class DACs out there. What sort of transport are you using? These do make a difference even with reclocking DACs.

The only transport I have at the moment is an old Sony DVD player from the late 90's, Ive also got a mac mini for playing ripped files

[Yomanze]

The only transport I have at the moment is an old Sony DVD player from the late 90's, Ive also got a mac mini for playing ripped files

There is an absurd deal on a Monarchy Audio DAC here (with DIP jitter conditioner):

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?81123-monarchy-audio-22a-dac-with-dip-interface

Mark (Reid Malenfant) uses one. I would definitely take a punt on this as you'd easily get what you paid for it if you decided to shift it on. Uses one of the best DACs of all time, the Burr Brown PCM63. A big reminder of how "analogue" and natural digital can really sound. :)

"I find with the Audiolab CDQ that its a bit up front and has some digital harshness, also the sound is not as full as the analogue set up." << the Monarchy is certainly rich and full compared to most digital...

[chelsea]

Micromega.

[Lee Henley]

Should be getting a loan of a Metrum octave tomorrow, see what that brings to the table

[Yomanze]

Nice, looks like a great DAC am a fan of non-oversampling designs.

[Lee Henley]

Should be getting a loan of a Metrum octave tomorrow, see what that brings to the table

Had the Metrum running for a few days now via Mac mini on optical and Sony DVD via coax, I've tried everything to get on with this Dac but I can't, in my system it's quite thin sounded and does not fill the room in any manner.

Fortunately for me it was a loaner and saved me a bit of money since I was going to buy one based upon all the reviews I'd read

Still on the look out for a new digital front end!

Lee

Btw this week I've got the essential northstar coming and the EE plus, I'm also hoping to get a Jolida FX glass and calyx to try

[Lee Henley]

Forgot to ask is there a Dac in the sub £1k bracket that competes with a decent vinyl rig? I do like the sound to be weighty and have great room presence like my vinyl rig, or do I need to consider spending more dosh

[DSJR]

Oooh, you're going to hate me for suggesting this, but shouldn't you have optimised the system around a neutral source and then tweaked the vinyl setup to match it? My experiences of the EAR 834P is that it's overtly soft and coloured in tone - deliberately "valvey" if you like. I'll be able to conform or deny this in a few weeks when I can next get to listen to one compared to the iPhono at £350, which looks fascinating.....

I say the above because, at best, BOTH formats should be easily usable. If one sounds so different and unsatisfactory compared to the other, I immediately look elsewhere in the system, since digital sources that haven't been artificially "doctored" sound broadly the same, the differences being in subtlety rather than the obvious things we first here when comparing vinyl sources for example.

Sorry if I've jumped in when I shouldn't, but when you've heard how stupendous really good digital is, a good low cost DAC should just sound smaller in scale, not totally different and thin toned. The vinyl front end is pretty neutral (although I dislike the OL arms with a passion, since they appear to be such an expensive downgrade on the originals in an effort to make the sound more "exciting"), but the EAR is definitely not without significant added character IMO and you'll never get a digital source to sound like this, no matter how "analogue" it is IMO...

[Lee Henley]

Oooh, you're going to hate me for suggesting this, but shouldn't you have optimised the system around a neutral source and then tweaked the vinyl setup to match it? My experiences of the EAR 834P is that it's overtly soft and coloured in tone - deliberately "valvey" if you like. I'll be able to conform or deny this in a few weeks when I can next get to listen to one compared to the iPhono at £350, which looks fascinating.....

I say the above because, at best, BOTH formats should be easily usable. If one sounds so different and unsatisfactory compared to the other, I immediately look elsewhere in the system, since digital sources that haven't been artificially "doctored" sound broadly the same, the differences being in subtlety rather than the obvious things we first here when comparing vinyl sources for example.

Sorry if I've jumped in when I shouldn't, but when you've heard how stupendous really good digital is, a good low cost DAC should just sound smaller in scale, not totally different and thin toned. The vinyl front end is pretty neutral (although I dislike the OL arms with a passion, since they appear to be such an expensive downgrade on the originals in an effort to make the sound more "exciting"), but the EAR is definitely not without significant added character IMO and you'll never get a digital source to sound like this, no matter how "analogue" it is IMO...

Your probably right there, the EAR could well add a bit of colour but its this sound I've got used too over the past few months and one I like, maybe transparent is not for me

[DSJR]

I don't know the Totems, but be warned that any tall thin colomn speaker is going to sound off like an organ pipe at one frequency if it isn't VERY careful....... Jacking up the tweeter can help to mask this and it seems to be a trick that Kudos and Pro-Ac use(d) among others..

[Lee Henley]

I don't know the Totems, but be warned that any tall thin colomn speaker is going to sound off like an organ pipe at one frequency if it isn't VERY careful....... Jacking up the tweeter can help to mask this and it seems to be a trick that Kudos and Pro-Ac use(d) among others..

The Forests aren't tall and thin, quite the opposite to be fair