DIY phonostage.

[sq225917]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8354/8321629389_4ef67a14bb_b.jpg

I've been slaving over this for a while now an it's time to start boxing it up. I'm happy with my choice for IEC's and switch gear, but I'm looking for something new for my RCA sockets and most important of all the internal wiring which needs to be shielded for best performance.

Any suggestions for low mass RCA sockets and shielded co-ax?

[Rare Bird]

Simon:
What made you choose the Dale resistors? Did you consider the Takman's!

[sq225917]

The Dale's are a 0.1% mil-spec rated resistor from one of the worlds leading manufacturers with a 50+ year history of supplying manufacturers of precision electronics equipment and they are used in everything from Siemens medical imaging equipment to Tektronix who make my oscilloscope.

and the Takman's aren't. They are overpriced and underspecced, regardless of any magic they may or may not impart.

[Rare Bird]

Ah right its the good old specifications again then ;)

[Puffin]

Who makes the PCB?

[sq225917]

Andre, it's the 0.1% more than anything else that made me choose them, that and price. I'll be using fancy Charcrofts for the loading once i've homed in on my preferred value with this phonostage.

Rob, it was a DIYAudio.com group buy. The circuit is by Joachim Gerhard with layout and routing added by others.

[nat8808]

Ah right its the good old specifications again then ;)

And that they have been used in such accurate and long lasting well built equipment surely.

A phono stage should be treated as accurate equipment too due to the small signal.

[nat8808]

Rob, it was a DIYAudio.com group buy. The circuit is by Joachim Gerhard with layout and routing added by others.

I've been interested in that thread too. Had you tried out any of the simple circuits near the beginning of the thread? Looked more my level.

I hadn't realised they had finalised anything (due to the length of the chatting).

[Reffc]

Nice work Simon.

For internal shielded wiring, I'd suggest the silver screened 4N silver wire shown on this page: http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html or alternatively the Cardas 33AWG triple core shielded wire (just twist all three cores together once stripped and then tin)

Pricey but good.

If you get stick RE Sockets, let me know. I can supply a wide variety depending on budget.

[Puffin]

Rob, it was a DIYAudio.com group buy. The circuit is by Joachim Gerhard with layout and routing added by others.

Aah. I have had a few GB's from DIYaudio. Thanks.

[sq225917]

Nat it was a long one to keep track of, the good threads always are. first impressions are good, very good.

Paul, i think I'm juts going to build it up low-rent in the first instance, using crappy plugs and any old coax for signal. Once I'm 100% sure of the locations of all the parts and routing then I'll move onto something better, so i might be in touch in a couple of weeks.

[6L6]

I'm not much of a cable guy... being a hard-core DIYer.

But I do know that you could try all the RCA jacks in the world and never find one better than just making a captive cable tied directly into the MPP's input.

[sq225917]

That's a great suggestion. Except this will be in 3 boxes when finished and my tonearm cable is one piece, so if I soldered it to the boards I'd have to remove the tonearm to move the boxes round...

I like ruthless minimalism as much as the next man but that may be too hairshirt even for me. I'll settle for a continuous shield from headshell to input points on the board via short lengths of internal coax.

Ring-Ring! Awesome my transformers are here. I can wire up the other channel.

[pure sound]

Are you restricted to RCA phonos in something that is for your own personal use?

I've never actually done any listening comparisons between RCA & other types of connector but do find it plausible that other types might give a better result.
Of course it would then require custom cabling but you could certainly hardwire the o/p cables in place.

[6L6]

The other option to consider is a phono-DIN.

Or Lemos. They are really nice.

[sq225917]

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I went with the cheap AudioNote silvers, because they have a small hole mount diameter which leaves room for fancy plugs later.

[sq225917]

Well I finally got it all wired and fired yesterday. Left channel was a little hollow sounding and stereo was a bit off. Traced it down a short between the source and gate of one of the transistors that feed a current mirror. Dirty dollop of solder removed and hey presto.

[sq225917]

Lizzie caught me making some annotations to mod my phonostage this morning, and asked me what all the symbols meant, capacitor, LED and resistors. This afternoon she came in while I was soldering and asked if she could make something for my hifi.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8324/8377182294_8df4f163cc_c.jpg

The chav cap was her idea...

[Patrick Dixon]

The girl's got talent. I think you should make the led light up for her though.

[sq225917]

Next time round I'll do a couple handing over a baton in a relay race that way i can make it a circuit.

[337alant]

SQ is that a Russian military 1% polystyrene for the base :eek:

Very nice build BTW and on the subject of the dales in one of my Linear Audio books the found the Dale RN65 RN60 to be ultra low distortion and a reference sample ;)

[6L6]

Simon -

May we see some more photos of the whole project? :) :) :) What you have shown us looks great so far!

Thanks,
Jim

[sq225917]

Which project? The making useless electronics tat with my daughter or the new phonostage?

[sq225917]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8328/8424460667_c40e4af3b5_b.jpg

All wired and fired and awaiting cases.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8377/8424456607_eb359da98f_b.jpg

Close up of one channel.

[337alant]

Lovely job on the phono boards;), dont know when Im goning to get round to building mine but they look like a quality bit of kit so I need to make time:(.
The matching of the transistors sounds like a nightmare did you buy extra ones to the kit ?.
What do you think of the sound from them so far?

Alan

[sq225917]

Alan they sound great. I ended up buying another 800 transistors to get enough good matches for my own boards and for Joe's build. The GB parts appear to have been sorted a few times already all the 400 hfe units have been removed leaving just junk. I suggest you buy a load of new from Mouser, they are well matched.

I do of course have a 1000 spare you are welcome to sift through, i also have caps for the RIAA stage you can have and an Atlas meter if you need to borrow one just let me know.

They sound bloody great, not sure i have the correct cart loading applied yet, they actually sounded better with no cart loading caps than with 3.3n, more fiddling yet.

[337alant]

Jeeps 800 extra:eek:, looks like Ill have to put an order in thanks for the tip.
I have a couple of meters that do HFE and a Peak meter so im Ok there but thanks for the offer.
What are you going to put it all in one or two enclosures?

Alan

[sq225917]

Three of these.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/6823357630_3cb0666e27_c.jpg

Not sure what to do about lighting the front panel yet.... No doubt I request the services of Mr Holterman.

[337alant]

Nice ;), they be FlatP cases are they?

Alan

[sq225917]

Indeed they are. Drop me your postal address and I'll stick you a set of 33n and 11n caps in the post for the RIAA.

Si

[337alant]

Thanks Si will do :)

Alan

[6L6]

Simon -

Thanks for the pics! It looks great, and I am looking forward to seeing it all cased.

I have an unhealthy obsession with high-end DIY phonostages... I have built 4, and would like to do at least two more...

The problem is that my Pass Pearl (original) is pretty much perfect. The Pearl 2 is also amazing. So, as with most people and DIY projects, I need to do another phonostage about as much as I need a syphilis infection.

That said, it's likely not going to stop me. :) :) :)

I will get to it in time, as I literally have 2 amp projects unbuilt (with one started and needeing to be finished in no longer than a fortnight) and another power amp that has a hummm, and needs debugging.

All that, and NASCAR season is starting mid-february... (I'm a Learjet Captain for a company that owns a race team) so I am in a genuine rush to get these going.

[The Black Adder]

Hi Simon. How much would this stage cost to make as I'm looking in to a DIY stage myself.

[sq225917]

Joe, first off it's not available the group buy is over and done. You might see one come up on the DIYaudio.com classifieds if you are lucky. pcb and group buy parts kit should be about 150 quid, maybe a bit more. The trouble with that is the group buy transistors are dog shit and you'll need to buy another 500 to get the correct matched values. So all in with cases, and PSU you're looking at closer to 300 + whatever boxes you put it in.

The group buy/build thread is here. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218625-paradise-builders.html

[sq225917]

Well after much being sat around on my arse doing nothing i finally got round to boxing this up today. I did one channel this afternoon and I'll do the other one tomorrow. I'm not normally this neat but the idea is that this is my last phonostage, (well last design, I have another set of pcb's waiting to be filled with primo parts).

Anyway here's the two shots, inside and outside.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/8829687680_0e5de065f4_c.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/8829670502_2dfd36c9b5_c.jpg

Just the final earth path to sort out...

[337alant]

Beautiful job that Simon ;), looks like it will have to be a 3 box job:eyebrows:.
Its a pity that heat sink is so high or it may have been possible to stack them in one case which is what I wanted to do.
Alan

[sq225917]

With one channel in each box they run pretty cool and there's no temp cycling or pumping of the input stage transistors from the heat from the other channel. Each channel may run a different temps due to the shunt reg.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3780/8859977627_38ba444bc5_c.jpg

[sq225917]

Well that was so good I'm going to do it all again, this time with transistors all matched to better than 1% and using 0.1% resistors and similar matching for all the small signal caps. I also have a selection of much better simulating transistors to use for all the main parts of the servo and some genuine 2sk170's.

I also fancy dropping the 2x5 transistors on the input stage on each channel under the PCB and heatsinking them all together with copper bus bar.

[YNWaN]

Well, it looks like I will have the opportunity to audition this very phonostage in my own system tonight (when Si brings it round).

Must say, I've got slightly mixed feelings. On the one hand I'm eager to extend my experience; on the other hand, if I really like it I will want one...

It will be up against my own humble stage - a DIY creation based on Naim 323 cards. Up to now it has seen off all that it has been compared to.

[YNWaN]

I've just finished listening to sq's 'home built' phonostage and I have to say, it is a remarkable bit of kit. In many ways it sounds just as my own phono stage.

Initially we listened to the first XX album. On my phonostage it was a quite remarkable experience - starting with enormous reverb on voices and huge echo on instruments followed by super punchy DC type bass - I don't think either of us felt it lacked for anything! A quick swap to sq's stage and the sound was, if possible, even more subtly nuanced, with perhaps a hint of emphasis to leading edges. For me, bass was even drier with better delineation - actual extension and weight was just as good. Swapping back again, my stage had a velvety quality that was missing from sq's - however, whilst it was all there (information wise), I did miss the leading edge detail that sq's stage delivered.

It's not an easy comparison, in isolation you listen to my own stage and nothing seems missing,timing is strongly projected, dynamic range is huge, frequency extremes are solid and extended, yet the sound isn't forced or trying too hard.

I think....sq's stage brought a level of subtle sophistication that was previously, in comparison, missing -better leading edge, slightly better tonal colour and a more consistent quality right in to the deep bass.

Any way, I've got sq's stage for a few days - so we shall see...

[Spur07]

the amp looks great, excellent job.

[sq225917]

Just imagine what it would sound like with the correct cartridge loading mark?

[YNWaN]

What is the cartridge loading now and is it relatively easy to change?

(I'm not suggesting we change it)

[YNWaN]

I've just finished listening to sq's 'home built' phonostage and I have to say, it is a remarkable bit of kit. In many ways it sounds just as my own phono stage.

Initially we listened to the first XX album. On my phonostage it was a quite remarkable experience - starting with enormous reverb on voices and huge echo on instruments followed by super punchy DC type bass - I don't think either of us felt it lacked for anything! A quick swap to sq's stage and the sound was, if possible, even more subtly nuanced, with perhaps a hint of emphasis to leading edges. For me, bass was even drier with better delineation - actual extension and weight was just as good. Swapping back again, my stage had a velvety quality that was missing from sq's - however, whilst it was all there (information wise), I did miss the leading edge detail that sq's stage delivered.

It's not an easy comparison, in isolation you listen to my own stage and nothing seems missing,timing is strongly projected, dynamic range is huge, frequency extremes are solid and extended, yet the sound isn't forced or trying too hard.

I think....sq's stage brought a level of subtle sophistication that was previously, in comparison, missing -better leading edge, slightly better tonal colour and a more consistent quality right in to the deep bass.

Any way, I've got sq's stage for a few days - so we shall see...

I've done a bit more listening today to Simon's phonostage (now that is thoroughly warmed up. I was particularly struck by how good it is during crescendo; there is absolutely no blurring. or confusion, of notes competing for your attention. The dynamic range is huge too - music suddenly swells in a very dramatic manner and bass is rock solid. I must say, I like it a lot!

[sq225917]

it's relatively easy to change I just need to remove the main boards flip them over and put a different SMT resistor between the input and gnd pads. I don't have the resistors like...

[sq225917]

I've been busy, already built a closer matched and better specced V2 version.

Just finished last night. So I'm waiting for the input bias to settle, which lovers of foo will be delighted to hear takes up to a week as the electrolytic capacitors form/settle/burn in. proving that all caps don't form in seconds rather than over a period of time. (They do of course have next to bugger all running into them)

here's the temporary cart loading arrangement. I'll shift this onto the back panel via a plug-in of some sort.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7410/9047892591_1b094f7521_c.jpg

[sq225917]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/9100122362_1d8c63ed84_c.jpg

Mark has been building little houses to shield my transistors from the draught.

I had a head to head with a Tom Evans Groove Anniversary yesterday. Both were set up for the specified loading of my cart. To be frank the TE got it's ass handed to it. Better bass, more coherent top to bottom, better resolution and more dynamic contrast from my own ickle diy stage.

Does anyone fancy the challenge?

[DSJR]

Simon, that phono stage (with buffer output?) would retail for at least couple of grand I reckon, once components were selected and a more fancy box customised. I suspect the kit costs aren't that cheap either :)

[YNWaN]

It would probably retail for circa 5K.

The little transistor house looks cool ;).

[Marco]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/9100122362_1d8c63ed84_c.jpg

Mark has been building little houses to shield my transistors from the draught.

I had a head to head with a Tom Evans Groove Anniversary yesterday. Both were set up for the specified loading of my cart. To be frank the TE got it's ass handed to it. Better bass, more coherent top to bottom, better resolution and more dynamic contrast from my own ickle diy stage.

Does anyone fancy the challenge?

Nice one, Simon... I'll bring my Croft and Ortofon ST-80SE round, after the holidays (end of August) and we can have a play. You need a decent hard-wired, PCB-free, valve MM phono stage/MC SUT combination to give those tranny-boy active MC upstarts a royal rogering!! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

[YNWaN]

It's at my house this weekend - very good it is too.

In fact, I think it's one of the best bit of electronics I've heard.

[Marco]

Indeed - I'm sure it's worthy of such praise. Simon's gone rather quiet, though, after 'throwing the gauntlet down'.... ;)

Marco.

[YNWaN]

He's gone away for the weekend (that's why I've got his phonostage) - its his girlfriends birthday.

I'm sure he will be fine about comparing his stage to your Croft/SUT combo though. Your cartridges have similar outputs so there should be no technical issue.

I'm listening to the new Laura Marling record through it now - it really is excellent. I'm definitely going to have to build one and I'm not keen on electronic projects in the way Si is.

[sq225917]

Marco, you'll be pleased to know my power amp already hisses, so that you should make you feel right at home.... ;-)

[Marco]

Lol... Nice one, but how tuneful is the hiss, and does it do PRAT? :eyebrows:

Seriously, I'd love to hear your phono stage, so we should hook up after the hols....

Marco.

[sq225917]

Give me a bell when ever you're free. I'm always at home or thereabout.

[Marco]

Cool... You'll need to PM me your number, though :)

Marco.

[YNWaN]

With any luck, Si has managed to source me a pair of PCB's and components :).

[YNWaN]

He's just confirmed that he has and they should be here by the end of the week :).

[sq225917]

Here, and built. Just the RIAA caps to add then I can turn myself to the power supply.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7395/9216639217_dc59ab634e_b.jpg


The power supply LOL, OMFG.

The power supply for this is a monster. if you thought my three box build was OTT, check this one out- this is just one channel of the PSU...

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3699/9199474509_ba3fe7c860_c.jpg

Dual transformers, dual common mode chokes, full wave rectified, snubbed diodes, 4x 10,000uf caps and what is still missing from there is a pair of Hammond frame inductors roughly 40x80x70mm in size that are so frickin big we'll have to cut the feet off and lean them in over the pcb at an angle to fit it all into the box.

[YNWaN]

Yep, this will be a four box phono stage! Entirely dual mono, even down to having separate mains leads.

I've seen these boards in the flesh and Si has done an outstanding job of the build - super closely matched components of the best quality and very neatly soldered and constructed. Not a cheap DIY build, but worth it.

[337alant]

Lovely workmanship as usual Si ;)

Nice power supply as well?, care to share where you got it?.

Question with those 2 inline chokes is there enough headroom in the 12-0-12v transformer to give you the desired output?.

Alan

[YNWaN]

Presumably there is because the power supply (and also specified the parts) was designed by the same guys who did the phonostage. Both are the result of. Collaboration from the DIY Audio forum.

[sq225917]

The little black common mode chokes you can see on the board are only an ohm or so. The larger Hammond chokes, not yet delivered are higher resistance.

The transformers are 12-0-12 so will swing 24v. There are 230v rated so I expect them to deliver 25v. Multiply that by 1.4 and you get 35v DC before the rectifiers. The rectifiers might mop up 1v leaving 34v, the amplifier stage needs 26v so there's 8v of headroom for the coils to mop up. The boards are specced to use a 40 ohm power resistor after the coils, so there's plenty of headroom and wriggle room. I'll choose the power resistor once the output voltage has been tested against Marks mains. I run mine at 26.5v into the amp stage.

[sq225917]

...and here's why it will be a four box phonostage. This is one channel. The smaller of the two pcbs is 30cm long
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/9293297450_3125c86a5a_c.jpg

[337alant]

Simon
I bought some of this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-24-AWG-Shielded-Silver-Teflon-Wire-Coax-Assortment-/230849515290?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item35bfb40f1a#ht_102wt_1399 its very nice but I got clobbered for tax as its from USA :doh:

Alan

[YNWaN]

Well, Simon has now finished the electrical side of the build and a very nice job he has done of it too :). Also, Andrew came over and delivered four lovely cases. All I have to do now is marry it all together.

Today I will order the peripheral parts I need - IEC fused and switched sockets, connectors and earth posts.

[sq225917]

You better get a move on Mark, I have that set for Keith from PFM mounted already, just need to mount and wire the psu traffos. Sadly it's neater looking than my personal build is.

[YNWaN]

I've had most of my bits delivered - but it's dads funeral next Friday and solicitor stuff has to be done - probably wont be till the week after next now.

[sq225917]

Back from the dead.

So after long delays due to the GB guy going awol with a load of people's money and parts, I finally have all the components for Rexton's Paradise phonostage to hand. Here's the first of the pre-reg boxes waiting for the mains wires to go in.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3723/12176307066_8d8ebc225a_b.jpg

I've built these up with the Si-c Cree Schottky diodes. They're a new part with some interesting properties- like


Zero reverse recovery current
Zero forward recovery voltage


Which could be very interesting for a super low noise supply. The odd components sat to one side are a wima 3.3uf cap, two diodes and a resistor for building a DDRC earth lift. He might need it he might not, I didn't in mine neither did Ynwan but a few people have. What you can't see are the Laser cut standoffs underneath the Hammond chokes or the Thick neoprene rubber pad under the pcb between the case and the input transformers.

Ooooooh it's gonna be good...

[Wakefield Turntables]

:wowzer::yay: What more can I say, fooking, fan-bloody tastic.

[sq225917]

Yeh, it's all gravy from here on in. As ever the bits that make the difference are the bits that you can't see.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3710/12176579305_716d95d968_b.jpg
Little spacers minimizing the noise passed from one part to the next.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7399/12176556905_fbfb1665cb_b.jpg
Damping pads doing their thing and killing vibration right at the largest potential source.

It's all coming together. Doing the cabling is going to be the biggest ball ache, but it's worth the hassle for the low impedance and 100% shielding.

What do you fancy for the signal wire? I prefer to use single coax inside phonostages, have you maybe seen a silver version you like the look of?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Carte Blanche as usual, get the best stuff for the job, dont worry about cost.

[nat8808]

As ever the bits that make the difference are the bits that you can't see.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3710/12176579305_716d95d968_b.jpg


There's a hand working it all from underneath?? :scratch:

[sq225917]

The unseen puppet master controls and sees all...

Ill search for something suitable tomorrow.

[Firebottle]

Where did you source your Hammond chokes from?

Cheers, Alan

[pure sound]

Hoping there'll be one of these in use at Scalford.

[337alant]

Progress on my phono stage, cant wait to fire it up


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7339/11862578874_1651914edc_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862578874/)
. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862578874/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/11862881686_e0e5da919d_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862881686/)
. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862881686/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2886/11862342593_225f6dc0c4_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862342593/)
. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11862342593/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan

[YNWaN]

looking good :). I see my own contribution to the thread rather ran out with my fathers funeral. I'm pleased to say that my paradise is now fully completed and sounding quite sublime :).

[sq225917]

Guy, i can always bring mine along if someone has space for it.

[sq225917]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/12197007916_b845a03b51_c.jpg
Mains input wiring added using the chassis of one of the chokes as the earth star. That DDRC on the RHS of the case might end up getting placed in between the chassis, signal GND and the incoming earth wire. I know what you're thinking, '6mm CSA of copper wire for 300mA of current draw- he must be mad?' Well nothing exceeds like excess...

[pure sound]

Guy, i can always bring mine along if someone has space for it.

Which system is Mark possibly having his TT in?

Re the above. Is it worth having a switch to allow either a direct connection between Sig Gnd and the chassis or via the DDRC 'lift' network? Incidentally what's the cap value?

[sq225917]

Mark, move his TT? You're having a laugh, that'll never happen.

The cap is 2uf. I can't be arsed adding a switch, more wire, more connections. I'll try it without the DDRC in Andy's set-up. It should be fine, he's borrowing mine currently and there's no noise.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/12203570483_c9d7bf03a6_c.jpg
There's space for a DDRC in either psu or amp cases or both should the need arise, should Andy swap decks, arm, amps at any time.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/12203540463_f3b31a3868_c.jpg

incoming power enters via grommet and heads down and around to the small connector block on opposite side to signal cables, I still prefer to use a fully shielded mains cable though.

[pure sound]

He was threatening that it might make an appearance somewhere. I was surprised!

Bring the phono down with you. I'll probably have a Vida there & I'd like to hear them side by side perhaps on the Saturday evening.

[Firebottle]

Your earth wire should go to a dedicated bolt with star washer to meet the regulations.
It should not go to a bolt holding something else.

Where did you source your Hammond chokes?

Cheers, Alan

[pure sound]

Bluebell Audio do the Hammond chokes and transformers.

http://www.bluebellaudio.com/

[sq225917]

Finishing up wiring, shoeing that Belden in to place is a major PITA, it's thick and desperately none bendy.

[Wakefield Turntables]

It's thick and desperately none bendy.

that sounds so wrong on so many levels ;)

[YNWaN]

I used the same cable for mine and it really is the maximum that can practically be used - even then it is bloody difficult!

It's ridiculously over the top for what it has to carry.

[sq225917]

One side fired up all right, string of LED's out in the shunt reg on the other side. I'll pop the board out first thing and check it out, hoping it's just a solder blob in the wrong place on the compensation caps that I added to the shunt yesterday. Wouldn't be a build if it all went right first time....

[sq225917]

Damn you IRF9610....

New parts for the shunt on order.

[337alant]

What happened with the PMOS Si?

Alan

[sq225917]

No idea, they are as sensitive as crap to rough handling and static. I don't bother with a leash and stat mat so its quite likely it fell victim to our wool blend carpet...

[sq225917]

So i plugged in the working channel and fired up some Ella in mono and split the output to both channels of my amp.

I dropped the needle onto the record and had a little moment as nothing happened, no sound, no roar of the run in absolutely zip, deathly silent for the faint humming of boxed transformers. Then out of the darkness Ella bust out with the intro to Let's Face The Music and Dance. I sat and listened right the way through to the end of the side. Even with totally the wrong cart loading it was mesmerising. If one channel is this good I can't wait to hear it with two!

The full bore psu makes a noticeable difference. Which means I'll have to rebuild mine to match- bugger

[Wakefield Turntables]

Now that sounds promising, I will have to update my review of your 3 box version when my 4 box version turns up!!

[sq225917]

Difficult to tell with one channel, effectively, and I've had nothing to compare it to directly. I think there's a fair step between them.

[sq225917]

I still enjoying the 'cod mono', my old Deccas and Columbias have never had so much use.

[sq225917]

Parts arrived. I thought I better just split the bridge to the amp section from the shunt and make sure the shunt isn't actually ok and that something in the amp isn't pulling it down. Bingo. Shunt is fine.

So that means I've f-ed up my soldering. Twenty minutes later there it is. Where I replaced one of the boggo transistors with a 2sk170, the tiniest little shiny line between two of the legs. Scraped it off with a resistor leg, yeh it was that thin, put the heatsink back on and fired her up. Voltage all fine, everything lights up.

I'll leave it on soak tonight to let the electrolytics settle before I dial out the input offset, but it's looking good.

[sq225917]

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5494/12291777555_7c03d86466_b.jpg
warming up now.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Simon,

did we go down the route of Silver Eichmann RCA's?

Andy

[sq225917]

Andy I chose the silver AudioNote sockets, they are an easier fit and take repeated solder/desolering better than the Eichmann's.

[Wakefield Turntables]

No worries, I can see your point with the eichmanns they are a bit shit when it comes to repeated solders, I've made a few leads up In the past and had the same problem.

[337alant]

No worries, I can see your point with the eichmanns they are a bit shit when it comes to repeated solders, I've made a few leads up In the past and had the same problem.
O dear I have just ordered 4 Eichmann bullets and sockets :eek:

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

Alan,

Don't worry eichmann are very good. You should have no problems with the femals RCAs but the male RCAs can be a little fragile if used more than once. What do you plump for Cu or Ag?

[337alant]

Alan,

Don't worry eichmann are very good. You should have no problems with the femals RCAs but the male RCAs can be a little fragile if used more than once. What do you plump for Cu or Ag?

4 Silver bullets on the phono plugs
and the sockets are copper gold plated
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130811955304?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
I am also contemplating Neutric XLR?? any thoughts
for hook up cable I have a 5m length of 8 core Van Damme blue tour grade where each core has 2 upofc wire which are screened and jacketed so I am going to strip out lengths of that each pair of internal phonos
http://www.van-damme.com/3.html
The power cables are just good quality silver plated copper with Teflon sheath all twisted into a 7 core lead with a copper screen and jacket.

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

You would have to ask Simon about xlr's. Now with regards your cabling I think Simon used some monster thick belkin stuff again you need to ask him what spec he used.

[sq225917]

It's just the Eichmann RCA plugs that i find a little less than durable. Knowing Andrew he'll probably want to tinker about with different internal signal wires in his new phono so I've built it with a socket choice that doesn't mind a bit of thermal abuse. better safe than sorry.

[Wakefield Turntables]

. Knowing Andrew he'll probably want to tinker about with different internal signal wires in his new phono so I've built it with a socket choice that doesn't mind a bit of thermal abuse. better safe than sorry.

Me, tinker with hifi kit. :D Nope I'll prolly leave this kit well alone!

[YNWaN]

I am also contemplating Neutric XLR?? any thoughts

Do you mean for signal out? If so, I see no reason why not.

[337alant]

Yes I mean for all signal connections in and out (but unbalenced), I just think they appear to be a better connection than phono
If I do it it would be to the end of the arm leads, sockets in and out of the phono stage and a lead to the pre amp so would need 2 extra sockets in the pre amp as well

Alan

[sq225917]

Me, tinker with hifi kit. :D Nope I'll prolly leave this kit well alone!

I've built it with room for a few upgrades down the line. Once you get itchy feet... Albeit things I haven't done to my own unit yet.

[Wakefield Turntables]

So just out of interest hows mine been upgraded from yours?

[sq225917]

It hasn't been upgraded from mine, yet. It uses the exact same parts in the main amp channels. I have a half dozen or so things that I'm yet to try on mine, low offset op-amp, Calvin buffers and a few other things. The PSU in yours is completely different however and from what I've heard so far in my system it's a better psu than my single box unit.

[Wakefield Turntables]

ok, when are we looking at delivery? Send me a PM :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Si,

A big thanks for coming over and explaining a few things about the paradise. Also thanks for optimising the cart loading, finding out my platter has a wobble and also getting cart tracking weight sorted! I cant wait for the other tweaks that we talked about, but then again I need to bed this thing in for 6 months!

Thanks

A

[YNWaN]

A new group buy of the Paradise phono has just been announced on DIY Audio:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216891-paradise-phono-stage-116.html#post3811631

Get it while you can.

[sq225917]

Op-amps for the servo and Calvin buffers. All in good time....

[Ali Tait]

I'm in...

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm listening to mine now, YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED!

[sq225917]

The only one disappointed will be your Mrs Andy when she finds you still in your music seat tomorrow morning.

Ali you'll not regret that. Hit me up for the upgrade list when you are ready to start buying parts.

[Ali Tait]

Thanks Simon, will do.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The only one disappointed will be your Mrs Andy when she finds you still in your music seat tomorrow morning.



I've done about 6 hours so far!

[sq225917]

I've done exactly the he same since I got back... Agnes Obel, Atoms For Peace and all my Tom Waits.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I stopped about 10pm with the MRS complaining of too much bass from JS Bach toccato and B minor!

[337alant]

A new group buy of the Paradise phono has just been announced on DIY Audio:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/216891-paradise-phono-stage-116.html#post3811631

Get it while you can.

Thanks for the heads up Mark

Alan

[howlindawg]

You're a bad influence Simon!

http://imageshack.com/a/img513/4756/r4nf.jpg

This might take a while. :scratch:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/my7e3uy79tjdmb6/Tester.jpg?dl=1

[337alant]

LOL :D best of luck with the matching

Mine is up and running now and sounding very nice, still early days yet though.

https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7367/12813398784_52f085d0c5_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813398784/)
phono 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813398784/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s2.yimg.com/sk/3679/12812986695_d3f101a197_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12812986695/)
phono 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12812986695/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7422/12813071303_ca43470464_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813071303/)
phono 5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813071303/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s2.yimg.com/sm/5491/12813397194_576a6a0612_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813397194/)
phono 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12813397194/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan

[sq225917]

ooh, DCA pro, nice purchase. I like the molex socket as well, that has to be quicker than clipping the leads.

I've actually just built another one this week, R2 pcbs, numerical match on the input stage better than 1% everywhere else.

[howlindawg]

With 2000 transistors to test (1K of each) the molex was essential.
If I can't find a suitable matching set from that lot I may throw my hat at it. :)

[337alant]

I just used a project bread board and clipped the leads on to some jumper wires easy and quick to just plug in the transistor
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400-points-Solderless-Breadboard-Prototyping-Projects-Arduino-Electronics-/110904886758?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item19d27245e6

I printed off A4 sheets with squares numbered from 400 to 450 for 337 and 327 .
after a frustrating time of testing and retesting in a room where the temp was not stable I found that 1-2 deg change in room temp moves the HFE up and down by up to 20 points so I ended up with a closed room with a stable temp of 22 degC and wore gloves.
I went thousands of transistors and found that most of them where in the 300 to 399 range so a waist really
Its a sole destroying job so best of luck

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

Welcome to Paradise Alan.

[struth]

Looking very good....very professional.
Tell me whats the best way to cut out the holes for the iec sockets in a plastic case??? drill and jigsaw?

[YNWaN]

Coping saw (drill a hole first) - also true for aluminium.

Have done this task quite a number of times.

[337alant]

+1
Mark out, Drill holes in corners, Coping saw, File.
Here you go

https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7311/12863481483_14b1a93daf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863481483/)
IEC hole 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863481483/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7454/12863503033_c90eb69b6e_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863503033/)
IEC hole 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863503033/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7306/12863367215_5c2cdda968_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863367215/)
IEC hole 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863367215/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

https://v4s1.yimg.com/sj/2822/12863965764_31f03a002a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863965764/)
IEC hole 4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/12863965764/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan




Coping saw (drill a hole first) - also true for aluminium.

Have done this task quite a number of times.

[struth]

Thanks alan and mark...kinda thought that would be the way......I have a scrolling saw which should do with the right blade. my hand tools are long gone as is my vice...will have to go up to my brothers garage me thinks....probably cock it up as aint done anything like this for many a year.

[YNWaN]

If you post me the panel and the IEC I'll do it for you - you would have to pay return postage though.

[nat8808]

my hand tools are long gone as is my vice...

Now that you've given up the drink, you can probably safely get some hand tools again.. unless it was the handtools which were turning you to your vices in the first place?

[struth]

Now that you've given up the drink, you can probably safely get some hand tools again.. unless it was the handtools which were turning you to your vices in the first place?

LOL...it was several tons of snow that made me give up on hand tools....it crushed my shed/w/shop and I pretty much lost the lot as I was ill at the time. now got a shed/studio for music and hardly a tool in sight...too many boxes though...still partake in a wee swallow on occasion. (like now):cool:

[howlindawg]

I just used a project bread board and clipped the leads on to some jumper wires

Good idea, that's even quicker than the Molex (more stable).

http://imageshack.com/a/img812/6862/jvxl.jpg

[337alant]

Exactly ;)

I do like that Atlas DCA Pro version, very nice !

[sq225917]

I'm Hopi g not to have to build any more of these, though I can justify the dcapro for tracing 2sk170 to check they are real....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Si,

Have you had any chance to review the latest mods to the paradise. I know you've been waiting to see if the values for some of the components have been finalised and I wondered if you changed the op-amp you mentioned on our last chat

Andy

[sq225917]

I have the op amps on boards but having fitted them. Too busy applying for new jobs. Give it a couple of weeks, I have a set made up for you.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I have the op amps on boards but having fitted them. Too busy applying for new jobs. Give it a couple of weeks, I have a set made up for you.

No worries mate. Good luck job hunting. ;)

[sq225917]

Job hunt over. I'l look at the parts next week.

[sq225917]

2140's were a dead end for me, I get lower drift and abetter servo action with the 2134's I might end up with the 627's in the servo. I built another set up for a punter and delivered them last weekend, decent sounding set-up he had, modded Naim gear on the front of a set of Ns1000's.... There's a lot of them about.

I finally finished the electrics for my TT-psu this week, 18v motor fitted with new pulley. I had a few spares made.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3833/14288803413_36d2acd286_b.jpg

Loving the shiny, also the lower vibration and the reduction in voltage error since I got rid of the step ups to the older 110v motor I was using previously.

And I started building the Calvin buffers today as well....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Good news re the job!

Calvin buffers - Whats the latest news about these, did the group finalise the design and component list?

PSU's, Si, these PSU's hum like a bugger what can we do to replace/rectify hum?

[sq225917]

Fully compliant mounts for the boards will reduce the noise. Its just physical vibration from the 4* transformers, I'll ponder a solution.

[YNWaN]

Count me in for a pulley please - looking forward to the Calvin build (I've got my PCBs somewhere...)

[337alant]

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2912/14087827194_e6d9361bd4_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nsTNdj)Par 2 (https://flic.kr/p/nsTNdj) by 337alant (https://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

These little babies cured my buzz and excess heat problems.
Purchased from Audio wind on ebay they are silent even with my 250V mains, and because they are 18-0-18v there is less waised energy at the shunts my heat sinks are now only hand warm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toroidal-Transformer-25VA-P-115-230V-S-Dual-18V-/151182304104?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item23332ae368
Nuvotem Telema do a similar transformer cheeper?.

Dont know if they have the correct footprint for you pre regs though?.

Alan

[YNWaN]

Link not working Alan :(.

[337alant]

Sorry Mark fixed now, Flickr telling me my photos are restricted When I open the program from Google Chrome????

If I open from Explorer no problem?.
Alan

[Firebottle]

Like the foot for scale :eyebrows:

[sq225917]

The pre-reg build uses 2 traffos per channel as each pcb runs two common mode chokes so theirs no options to run something else given that and the restrictive footprint.

[337alant]

The pre-reg build uses 2 traffos per channel as each pcb runs two common mode chokes so theirs no options to run something else given that and the restrictive footprint.

Yeah thought so ?.
This may sound a bit radical but have you considered cutting through the pre reg board inbetween the block transformers and the chokes and then you could use the ones I am using on their stand alone PCB and then just link to the remaining pre reg with flying leads. If you leave 10mm of board in front of the choke you can drill through into the A/C tracks
PS - (you may need 22-24V transformers as you have big chokes)

Alan

[sq225917]

It's Rextons PSU, not mine, i haven't actually really considered doing anything to it as he's only recently mentioned the physical hum being an issue. I'd fully compliant mount the boards before looking at anything more drastic.

The parts for my Calvins have arrived so i'll solder them up tonight,

[Wakefield Turntables]

Si,

The hum has always been there and TBH I've usually listened at high enough levels for it not to be an issue it's late at night when you plonk some jazz on, sip a whisky and want to relax only to be bugged by this low level hum :( Anyway, plonk my name down for some Calvin boards and I'm sure we'll have a chat at some point. Take it easy.

Andy

[sq225917]

Andy i'll be in touch once I've installed and fettled my Calvins.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andy i'll be in touch once I've installed and fettled my Calvins.

Thats great, thanks. ;)

[sq225917]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5196/14381226051_3f3d45914f_c.jpg

buffers built.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3889/14197944559_aa8ec3a511_b.jpg

Tested and installed.

Form an orderly queue, it's an improvement in most areas, and with a set of OPA627's eliminates DC offset all but entirely.

[The Barbarian]

Looks ok but why are those Transistors mounted on the small Heatsinks stretched so far away from their mounting holes?

[sq225917]

Because the guy who laid out the board didn't lay it out for such big heatsinks as I chose to use. You can never have too much heatsink.

[lurcher]

You can never have too much heatsink

Sorry about the OCD, but thats not true, maybe it is for a phono stage or power supply, but in many cases, using too large a heatsink will cause the output devices of a power amp to run too cold, and thats not always a good thing to get the best sound.

[sq225917]

I'd like to see that graph of temp vs distortion....

[lurcher]

I'd like to see that graph of temp vs distortion....

I dont have one to hand, I can offer subjective evidence in the way my F5 clone improves as the heat sink gets up to temperature (and the manual by NP talks about the optimum operating temperature).

Or for an objective example of how the transfer function (and so distortion) will change with die temperature can be found in any device spec sheet, for example

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf240.pdf

[sq225917]

Yeh, but do you know that what you are hearing is the amp getting up to a 'specific' stable temperature, ie a best operating temperature, as opposed to just 'any' stable temperature? What test can you do to prove it is a specific temperature that counts as opposed to just any old stable operating point? What tests have you done to prove it wouldn't sound better with twice as much heatsink area?

Seems like your conflating one thing with another.

I'm not denying that semiconductors change their operating characteristics at different temperatures, far from it. But you don't make a superconductor by doubling the heatsink size....

[lurcher]

Yep, you are entirely correct, what was I thinking about.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Si,

I'm back off holiday so :-

1. What improvements have you noticed with the new boards?

2. Any idea's about this hum?

3. When can I get the Calvin fitted?

Andy

[sq225917]

1. Everything's just a little bit better, more weight, solidity, separation.
2. Yeh, strip the traffos off the board and mount them compliantly over the boards via short flexible flying leads, failing that, replace them all.
3. Drop your phono off and take mine away with you and I'll crack on with it. I need to re-order a selection of parts for the job and trying different things with your psu will take a while.

[YNWaN]

Am nearly ready to fit my Calvin buffers.

[sq225917]

Excellent.

[sq225917]

I have five pairs of Calvin's in various states of build for various parties. I had to buy a new piece of test equipment today for matching the jfets. I've been hankering after this since it came out last year, the dca-pro.

More pics soon.

Andrew, I'll be shot of that Krell this Sunday so Ill have space to start yours next week.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I have five pairs of Calvin's in various states of build for various parties. I had to buy a new piece of test equipment today for matching the jfets. I've been hankering after this since it came out last year, the dca-pro.

More pics soon.

Andrew, I'll be shot of that Krell this Sunday so Ill have space to start yours next week.

Moi?? I thought you'd flogged your Krell yonks ago :scratch: What you replaced it with??

[sq225917]

long story. The guy who I bought mine off had two, I purchased the broken one and fixed it up. He sold the working one to another fella, and it promptly fell over and died. That guy bought mine and I've had his and have overhauled it like I did the earlier one. So he has now has two working Krell KSA 200....He owns Scintillas... go figure.

I'm still using the same amp I was throughout....

[Wakefield Turntables]

. So he has now has two working Krell KSA 200....He owns Scintillas... go figure.

OK. I sure as hell wouldnt like to be sitting in his room on a hot summers night.....you could probably heat the entire house with the heat off those babies....

[sq225917]

2.4kw of room heater...

[sq225917]

http://www.peakelec.co.uk/art/dca-pro-with-tip110-350px.jpg

Best diy toy evah....

[337alant]

Nice :eyebrows:

Alan

[sq225917]

i swore I've never match another set of transistors but these Calvin boards need parts matching just like the main amp boards did.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Simon,

I want mine matching to 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% tolearances. :eek:

[sq225917]

It's a different parameter matching to the input stage, not hFe. I can now 'curve trace' for jfets so I can match them for gain, idss, noise and a variety of other parameters. Parts are with UPS I'll pick them up next week.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Send me a PM as soon as you have something organised and made up. :)

[YNWaN]

Fitted my Calvins earlier - am just setting the offset now (done one channel) - should have them playing in 30 mins or so.

[sq225917]

...And what are your thoughts.

One assumes by the gap between your previous post and a follow up that it's all good.

[Wakefield Turntables]

:popcorn:

[YNWaN]

I've only listened to a few records so far (on my fifth now, Dead Can Dance 'Anastasis') but it's definitely an improvement. Timbre seems to be better, sharp notes aren't just sharp, they have specific texture and the same with low frequencies. Separation and control is even better than before (already excellent qualities possessed by the Paradise) and the overall dynamic range has been increased (again, this was hardly a poor aspect of the Paradise even before adding the Calvin buffers).

I must say, the quality of the bass on this Dead Can Dance record is exceedingly good - very strong rhythmic control - timing is absolutely spot on.
--------
I've written on my own forum how interesting it is to be able to hear the subjective change that comes about from altering specific elements of a circuit (rather than the whole design). If this were a commercial product, a manufacturer would class the Paradise with Calvins as a MkII and increase the price by 20% - they may even make it a whole new design and double the price!

Sorry, it's taken me 10 minutes to write that last bit as the music keeps distracting me from my writing! The bass on the track Amnesia is, by some margin, the best I have ever heard it, despite Stygian depth, each note clear and distinct, clearly pitched against each other.

The king is dead - long live the king!

[sq225917]

half the transistors matched. More after I've poured a beer.

[YNWaN]

Ah, so that's what you've been doing ;).

[sq225917]

Yeh, bought a new bike frame as well. I'll pop round tonight.

[sq225917]

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14459633639_379615129d_b.jpg

Mmmmm, curve tracing...

[Wakefield Turntables]

Care to explain to the uninitiated?

[Macca]

Care to explain to the uninitiated?

Yes please. 'Mmmmm, curve tracing...' was not quite the detailed 'layman's terms' explanation I was hoping to see under that graph... ;)

[sq225917]

Trust me that's about as 'layman' as it gets. It's a transconductance curve that characterizes one aspect of the jfets operation. In this case allowing me to match both the on and off points for the jfets so I can match them perfectly. Better matching, better hifi, simples...

[sq225917]

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2900/14480731408_d745b4492b_b.jpg
Much to do

[YNWaN]

Ooo... Don't suppose you have a couple of spare inductors?

[sq225917]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140938526607?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

[sq225917]

Andy, I've finished building all the Calvins now so whenever you're free let me know. There's about 3 hours work in fitting them and dialling them in along with the op-amp sockets and swap over. I'll probably need your PSU for a week or two to work on the traffos. I'll isolate them from the pcb first and if that doesn't work I'll replace them. Getting them off will be the hard task.

[YNWaN]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140938526607?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

Got those now thanks. Not fitted them yet though - too busy activating the bass of my speakers ;).

[sq225917]

Oooh, have the amps arrived then?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Can you pm with the cost :)

[sq225917]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/14899264392_384e4abd99_b.jpg
Yet another set with Calvins fitted off out into the wild.

[337alant]

Lovely job Si and thank you for the parts BTW
Alan

[sq225917]

;-)

[sq225917]

Noisy transformers removed from Andy's psu and new ones on order. These were a total bitch to remove; 65mm square encapsulated transformers, through hole soldered to a 3mm pcb, with 8 pins on each one. Your op-amps and Calvins are fitted to both amp boards, so just waiting on traffos to finish these off. They sound very good plugged into my PSU...

I'll keep the old parts so I can use them as 'buzz' reference test against the replacements. Ynwans psu was build with the same parts and his is very quiet in comparison- as quiet as 4 traffos and 4 huge chokes will ever be. So that's my target match.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Cant wait to try this out against the Sugden + Ortofon SUT combo. I'm thinking we might have a new Ref phonotage in the main system.

[sq225917]

If nothing else it'll sound 3db better all round due to less transformer noise, that's before you take in the better load in-variance of the output stage and decimated DC offset drift. ;-) I'm expecting parts tomorrow so you might have this back by Thursday,

[Wakefield Turntables]

If nothing else it'll sound 3db better all round due to less transformer noise, that's before you take in the better load in-variance of the output stage and decimated DC offset drift. ;-) I'm expecting parts tomorrow so you might have this back by Thursday,

SCHORCHIO! Wow thats quick, better get some moneeee sorted.

[337alant]

Noisy transformers removed from Andy's psu and new ones on order. These were a total bitch to remove; 65mm square encapsulated transformers, through hole soldered to a 3mm pcb, with 8 pins on each one. Your op-amps and Calvins are fitted to both amp boards, so just waiting on traffos to finish these off. They sound very good plugged into my PSU...

I'll keep the old parts so I can use them as 'buzz' reference test against the replacements. Ynwans psu was build with the same parts and his is very quiet in comparison- as quiet as 4 traffos and 4 huge chokes will ever be. So that's my target match.

Si,
I have found a hot air solder gun very good for removing multi pin components they usually just fall out
In this case you may need 2 guns to get all pins hot at the same time
Alan

[YNWaN]

I've got a hot air gun you can borrow if you want Si.

[337alant]

I bought one of these which is a solder station and hot air gun with various combinations of settings, temp goes up to 350C
I has a nice solder iron that's good for circuit board work but not really heavy duty, the hot air gun will set fire to the board if you leave it long enough and you get a selection of shrouds its excellent for desoldering and SMD work
It heats up in seconds and goes to sleep when not in use
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/995D-PLUSS-SMD-Rework-Station-Hot-Air-Soldering-iron-HAKKO-heater-110V-/321500912683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adaf29c2b#ht_1720wt_1275

Alan

[sq225917]

I just levered them of with bamboo kebab skewers and carefully sequential heating of the pins; took a few hours all told but nice and clean.

[sq225917]

Andy, should be done tomorrow. I'll pop over after work if you're free.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/14878392068_52f4904a16_b.jpg

New in front, old with missing pins out back.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi,

Simon, what time do you wanna come over?

Andy

[sq225917]

I finish at six, so any time after that, it takes about an 40 depending on traffic. I figure half seven to eightish.

I'm just zeroing out the offset now. I'll leave them soaking overnight and give them a quick play and another measure before i put them in the car in the morning.

The new transformers are pretty damn quiet, same as Mark's.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Sounds ok to me, check your PM.

[337alant]

Anyone tried playing with capacitance across the loading resistor?

Alan

[YNWaN]

I have, to a point. It's easy enough to do for me as I have push fit sockets fitted to the board for the loading resistor and extra capacitance can be added to the resistor.

[337alant]

I also have sockets in the loading resistor and RIAA positions for now just for experimenting
I tried a 220pf wima across mine and I could hear a lift in treble which highlighted symbols and hi-hats, but it wasn’t in proportion to the rest of the frequency so didn’t sound right
Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

Alan,

I have the ability to change loading just like you and mark. It might be an idea to post some of your values that's you've tried and the results you heard??

andy

[YNWaN]

It's all cartridge dependant so what works for one won't be true for another. I used a polystyrene cap and the resistor was a Charcroft Z-foil. Twist the legs of the cap around the legs of the resistor and solder together, then push the legs of the resistor into the sockets.

[337alant]

Mark
Did you find a better quality loading resistor Charcroft Z-foil made a difference ?

Alan

[YNWaN]

Yes, had Takman in before - not night and day but worth it I thought.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just ordered the Takman, should be here in a day or so. You could spend a pretty penny just trialling the various resistors available. Has anyone tried anything else apart from the Takman and the Charcroft Z-foil resistors?

[sq225917]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8714/16348952993_bd21c5edb2_b.jpg

Another full monty Paradise due to head out into the wild soon. Just waiting on a set of replacement dropper resistors to trim the output voltage from the pre-regs and it'll be done.

[sq225917]

It's a lotta phonostage....

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7648/16348937723_c2dab3a645_b.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

Blimey another 4 boxer! Who's the lucky owner?

[awkwardbydesign]

Just ordered the Takman, should be here in a day or so. You could spend a pretty penny just trialling the various resistors available. Has anyone tried anything else apart from the Takman and the Charcroft Z-foil resistors?

Not in a phono stage, but as I/V conversion resistors in a DAC, Takman metal film, Shinkoh tants and Texas Components foils (they make the Vishnay foils), the TC foils were best, followed by the Shinkohs. Don't know if that helps.

[Audio Advent]

What effect do the various power supply additions make to the sound? Firstly the Calvin shunt regulators and then those power supply boards and the chokes? And how much difference do people think it would make having everything in one box? It always seems more impressive the more boxes there are... but does that just play psychological tricks?

I've a paradise stage coming my way from diyaudio swap meet! Bit of a gamble in some sense as you never know how well things were matched but the basics are there. Was £340 including shipping (with a diy case and external power supply). Sound ok? Figure the time spent finding unbuilt boards and then actually building one, I'd earn more spending that time working in my relatively low paid job. My Threshold pre has gone a bit funny (needs a re-cap I'm guessing) so took the ebay opportunity to upgrade to a Pass Labs X2 line stage and so this Paradise has been tweeking my interest as a quality phono stage to match.

I've an 90s Sugden (au41?) power supply case with very nice gloss black front and orange power button I'm going to mount at least the phono boards in but wondered if (if room) I actually notice a sonic difference with the psu stuffed in too.

[sq225917]

In my experience, and I've built 11 of them now the transistor matching for the input stage is key. Mine are built with all input stage transistors as an exact numerical match for Hfe. I've built units with ten, five, one and better than one percent match. The difference is clearly audible.

The Calvins make very little difference ime.

The fancy pre regulator makes a fair chunk of difference. As does using opa627 for the servo.

The four box layout is just more flexible and easier to make quiet in terms of noise, earthing etc. I build alanine with one box having a standard tonearm earth and one box has it lifted with a DDry DDRC which can help one some systems.

My own psu is a relatively modest one with no chokes or common mode coils. But it is CRCRCR with 10,000uf caps. It's enough!

[struth]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8714/16348952993_bd21c5edb2_b.jpg

Another full monty Paradise due to head out into the wild soon. Just waiting on a set of replacement dropper resistors to trim the output voltage from the pre-regs and it'll be done.

Superb work Simon. really looks the business

[sq225917]

systems

My own psu is a relatively modest one with no chokes or common mode coils. But it is CRCRCR with 10,000uf caps. It's enough! I'll test this week against a full bore one from the group buy and make a decision if I think the added cost is worth it.

I think you'll be very happy. If yours has been carefully built it should sound great.

[howlindawg]

You must be starting to get good at building these at this stage Simon. :eyebrows:

[337alant]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8714/16348952993_bd21c5edb2_b.jpg

Another full monty Paradise due to head out into the wild soon. Just waiting on a set of replacement dropper resistors to trim the output voltage from the pre-regs and it'll be done.

Very Nice:stalks:, superb job that Simon

Alan

[sq225917]

cheers gents here's another one waiting in the wings for a UK based music lover. He's taking one over a top spec Whest...

This one is special, the first one with new organic polymer caps in the shunt, very low ESR, some fancy unobtanium 2k170 jfets and the usual mix of laboriously hand matched transistors.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7614/17081361379_5892f8ab0d_b.jpg

I'm not normally that retentive but just for shits and giggles I matched the RIAA section out to +/- 2pf between channels (from 33,000pf, it's been a slow day).

[sq225917]

Just completed yet another build, that puts it at 13 so far.

The last unit has been built up with toroids in the psu and it's physically silent, no hum until you put your ear on the case work. I think that's going to be the standard from here on in. It adds a fair chunk of change to the overall build cost but the difference is not slight. Andy, I think you'll want this done to yours. I'm building a new psu for my own use, when its done I can bring it round and you can hear it back to back with yours.

There's also upgrades to the shunt, 2sk170 beat the J113 for noise and speed. They're hard to find and about £20 for a matched set but well worth it.
Organic caps for the shunt, 6 new capacitors with lower ESR for a stiffer psu, there's about £10 in cost but a whole load of work in removing the heatsinks and desoldering tricky to reach parts. And there's 2 surface mount caps to fit onto through hole pads- about as tricky as it gets...

I'll bring it all over so you can hear the differences.

pictures tonight....

[lurcher]

There's also upgrades to the shunt, 2sk170 beat the J113 for noise and speed. They're hard to find and about £20 for a matched set but well worth it.

LSK170 would be worth considering

http://www.diyaudio.com/store/parts/lsk170-to-92-jfet-215.html

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just completed yet another build, that puts it at 13 so far.

The last unit has been built up with toroids in the psu and it's physically silent, no hum until you put your ear on the case work. I think that's going to be the standard from here on in. It adds a fair chunk of change to the overall build cost but the difference is not slight. Andy, I think you'll want this done to yours. I'm building a new psu for my own use, when its done I can bring it round and you can hear it back to back with yours.

There's also upgrades to the shunt, 2sk170 beat the J113 for noise and speed. They're hard to find and about £20 for a matched set but well worth it.
Organic caps for the shunt, 6 new capacitors with lower ESR for a stiffer psu, there's about £10 in cost but a whole load of work in removing the heatsinks and desoldering tricky to reach parts. And there's 2 surface mount caps to fit onto through hole pads- about as tricky as it gets...

I'll bring it all over so you can hear the differences.

pictures tonight....

F'kin 'ell Simon I'd thought I'd done with this upgrade mi'larkyk, ok put my name down. As always your more than welcome to come over. It might be worth a little wait however as I have some rather interesting new Tannoy speaker cabs being custom made as we speak :cool:

[sq225917]

Yeh the LSK is a shoe in, same price with post from the US by the time they're here though.

[lurcher]

Yeh the LSK is a shoe in, same price with post from the US by the time they're here though.

Depending on the Idss you need Micross in the uk have them (b are £1.80 each).

https://www.micross.com/ecommerce/shop-default.aspx

[sq225917]

Its b I would use.

Here's number fourteen shaping up nicely.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/551/18435100661_2148c29042_b.jpg

[sq225917]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/486/18453935796_0936f5b322_b.jpg
Just the shunts output devices to go in and the heatsinks to bolt on.

[sq225917]

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/495/18934106590_bc7e8fb310_k.jpg

Last parts of my psu arrived today. Quad railed choke reg psu here we come.

[sq225917]

Frankly it's about bloody time I built the first psu like this for someone else over 18 months ago, I'm well behind the times.

[howlindawg]

I'm staring at a similar box of bits myself.
I need to push on and sort out a rear panel for the PSU enclosure.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47023283/PSU-inprogress.jpg

My motivation isn't helped by the fact that I don't actually NEED a phono stage any more. :mental:

[sq225917]

You'll need it once you hear it.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Si empty your inbox.

[sq225917]

Done

[thommy]

I have a set of R2 boards + parts from the group buy a while ago, along with some hacker cap boards and 18v r-core transformers. I also have an enclosure now with holes drilled in the right places to hold the boards, so soldering iron time is fast approaching.

Now as there has been a huge amount of fuss over this particular device, both in terms of it's performance and peculiarities, I am both excited and apprehensive about completing it.

Actually, the problem I now face is information overload, or "can't see the wood for the trees" and am frightened about even starting it. Could some of you with experience maybe chime in and help if I post a new build thread?

[sq225917]

Sorry Thommy i'd not seen your post. Any questions just ask.

In the meantime, Here's upgrades for rexton's Paradise. 2sk170 on the shunt, organic polymer caps and toriodals for the psu. These caps are a bit of a bugger to retrofit, much easier on a naked board.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5648/21720180743_98a33f1b18_c.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

Looks sexy!