Wanted: Power Amp [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Macca

28-12-2012, 11:05

DSJR

28-12-2012, 11:16

I haven't got anything, but seriously, a Krell from the 80's is now affordable and the majority were very good amps, the cost going heavily into oversized power supplies. You'd still need to spend a grand to fifteen hundred for a KSA50 or KSA80, but they ARE good IMO..

I've said it before, but a Linn LK140 (assorted samples) always made the LK100 sound grainy and the 5225 multi-channel amp was slightly sweeter sounding again - ideal if you wanted to bi-amp the A2's.

The Arcam FMJ (when the FMJ models were separate from the Diva range) power amp was great too and very big hearted like the much respected Meridian 500 power amps. Should be good into 4 ohm loads, if not doubling the power as Krells usually do.

Myryad did a humungous beast as I recall and it was well liked at the time (the big AV period of the early noughties). Might be worth looking out for.

Sonically, if not absolute power output, the current Crofts should accept the speakers too...

Finally, the bigger Rotel amps were pretty good. More refined than the big NAD's IMO and should be good enough to consider.

Does this help a bit? Loads of pro amps too (MC2?), but you have to be careful as too many are real dogs where domestic use is concerned and the bigger ones can get worse as output transistors are multiplied - not a universal thing though.

Macca

28-12-2012, 11:22

Thanks Dave - Krell I am considering, but I don't want to spend more than a grand if I can help it as I also want to upgrade the pre-amp. Pro amps I am toying with the idea of a QSC RMX 1450. Tried the Croft series 7 already, two of them in fact but they kept blowing fuses. Ideally I need something with a bit more grunt than the LK140 although that is one I could try cheaply I suppose.

Bluedroog

28-12-2012, 11:29

I'm delighted with my Quad 909, bags of power and just takes everything in its stride. You use a Croft basic pre if a I recall? I use the 25 with my 909 and love the combination. I did have to have the gain reduced on my pre but once I did the results are brilliant and will drive most speakers.

I'd never sell mine but Lintoneaudio have a ready supply it seems, they have 3listed on ebay now for £699 but I bought mine off them a year or so ago for £600 delivered so they may have room for movement.

The 909 went out of production to be replace by the Elite series which is very similar and costs about £1,200 I think. These 909s are still new just the last stock to be sold off I assume.

Edit: The 909 is 140wpc at 8 oms up to at least 200 at 4 ohms it also has a decent current.

Macca

28-12-2012, 11:35

Hi Christian - yes QUAD 909 is one I was looking at as well. I know Tony at Lintone from work so maybe I could get a deal, especially now we are post Xmas. The only thing that concerns me is that the speakers are quite rich sounding so perhaps QUAD amplification would be too much of a good thing?

Bluedroog

28-12-2012, 11:44

It is possible, I find the Quad just to the warm side of neutral but certainly less so than my old Arcam Alpha amp, it could be the extra power and grip giving a little more control that allows it to get away with warm more than the lower powered Arcams which can sound almost 'laid back'.

I'm powering budget B&W speakers which are also on the warm side and I think it does a fine job although I must confess with my next speaker upgrade I am looking for slightly brighter speakers so it is hard for me to give you a concrete answer there. It is complicated in that I also think my tastes in presentation are slowly changing. I'm coming from a warm bias looking a little more neutral, I'm still exploring so how much is not yet certain.

I'm off on a bit of a tangent now aren't I! :lol:

Personaly taste and synergy is one thing but you can be sure the 909 is a solid purchase at that price, whether it is right for you is another. I don't think you'd have any trouble shifing it on if not for you. Perahps you can get a home demo.

Macca

28-12-2012, 11:48

Yes, I am also looking for a sound that is a little more clinical/surgical than what I have now. The problem with moving stuff on is I can never be bothered hence the pile of amplifiers I already have...

The Grand Wazoo

28-12-2012, 13:31

Martin,
The doubling of power trick that you say you want surely means that the Quads are all out of the picture.
I'd have thought that if you can wait around for one to turn up, a KSA50 can be had for under £1000. It is a lovely amp and is all most people would ever need. The KSA100 and 80, I don't think you could do for your budget.
There are some other less well known things that you might stumble across and could possibly be had for a good price.
Keep your eye open for a Robertson 4010, which was always seen as a Krell challenger on the cheap.
Aragon 400A or 2004 - not Class A like the Krells but will do the doubling trick.
Nakamichi PA7 - a Nelson Pass brute
B&W sold a 150 wpc mosfet mono power amp called The Cube, which I liked a lot - it was made for them by Rotel, but was nothing like any Rotel!
The Tandberg power amps also become available every now and then.
Both of the older cheap Levinsons like mine (ML9 & 11 - 100 and 50 wpc respectively), though not common at all, can be had for £1k-ish. Both are rather looked down at by most Levinson owners, but excellent amps in their own right.

If you want something a bit unusual you could try this for a laugh (http://audiogold.co.uk/products-page/hi-fi-power-amplifiers/jvc-m-3030/)

Macca

28-12-2012, 13:42

Thanks Chris - some good suggestions there. The jVC looks interesting but there is no info online at all. I have to bear in mind that the last power amp I bought (Sony 55ES) could not do the job. I passed up a Nakamichi power amp a while back, possibly a mistake?

Anyways Krell does seem to be winning at the moment as a sure fire solution. Anyone got one they want to sell? I'd consider an integrated also.

The Grand Wazoo

28-12-2012, 13:46

The 3 Krells I mentioned are the only ones (that are close to what you can afford!) I'd personally consider - I never liked any of the integrated ones I've heard. You may love them though!

Macca

28-12-2012, 13:50

The 3 Krells I mentioned are the only ones (that are close to what you can afford!) I'd personally consider - I never liked any of the integrated ones I've heard. You may love them though!

Well the budget is not fixed but I don't wan't to go crazy I just don't believe it is necessary to spend stupid money to get a good sound. I am not far off as it is, CD replay in particular is realy good I just want to banish a tiny bit of wooliness and softness and get rid of the slight mid range bloom.

Canetoad

28-12-2012, 14:36

Macca

28-12-2012, 14:50

Martin,

What did you think of the Sony sound wise? :scratch:

I posted it up my thoughts here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21413

Ian Walker

28-12-2012, 15:04

Hi All

My New Years resolution is to get my system properly sorted even if it means spending proper money :o - what I need is a quality power amp - my speakers are a bastard to drive so I am looking for something that will double it's power into 4 ohm and, ideally, again into 2 ohm. Whaddya got?

I reckon this would be great match with those rich sounding A2s.

http://www.hififorsale.com/adverts/for-sale/amps-and-pre-amps/display/2088/mc650

Macca

28-12-2012, 15:10

I reckon this would be great match with those rich sounding A2s.

http://www.hififorsale.com/adverts/for-sale/amps-and-pre-amps/display/2088/mc650

Hi Ian, hows tricks? Yes MC2 is on the agenda too, I think. Not that one though as the fact that he has had it serviced and repaired recently makes me suspect it has had a hard life. Plus I'd rather buy from an AOS member or a dealer.

Ian Walker

28-12-2012, 15:36

Hi Ian, hows tricks? Yes MC2 is on the agenda too, I think. Not that one though as the fact that he has had it serviced and repaired recently makes me suspect it has had a hard life. Plus I'd rather buy from an AOS member or a dealer.

Fine ta Martin,just on the lookout for a new pre. I'd have no worries regarding MC2 amps theyre service dept is second to none.There is two on ebay now with a BIN of £1000.I had a pair of those spks many moons ago so have a good idea either a 450 or 650 MC2 would be ideal.

Ian.

DSJR

28-12-2012, 17:38

I completely forgot the Quad 606/707/909 - and they DO happily drive 4 ohm loads too to over 200WPC in fairness to 'em. 606mk2 onwards is best here.

Be careful with mid period Krells though. I heard a huge one (KSA250?) and it was harsh as anything - absolutely headache inducing and nothing like the early ones or the then new FPB models. The KAV500 power amp was another harsh one which would blow its output stage at the slightest provocation. Of the slim integrateds the 300 was bright but clean, the 400 rather better and full-bodied. Absolutely blew Naim olive stuff away, but the sheep weren't interested and bought the Salisbury stuff instead - baaaaa!

Re preamps, croft obviously, but the positive vibes I and some here have had with the now old Krell KRC2 and Levinson ML28 should be borne in mind please. I was also a fan of the then expensive ARC SP14, and bearing in mind the high quality bits inside and age, the used price of around a grand is very attractive. This FET preamp wasn't as coloured as the others ARC made and stillmake I reckon, and this generation weren't as well liked because of it, since the US became infatuated with slush-boxes for preamps in the 80's and 90's IMO!

RobsterD

28-12-2012, 18:18

I have a Crown DC300A for sale bought and serviced by stewartwen from the wam.
this bested a MC2 450,650,Parasound A21 worth a punt at £350 plus delivery.

BTH K10A

28-12-2012, 21:40

The Musical Fidelity 550K's would fit the bill.

I'm biased as I own a pair but they will drive anything. The only problem is that they are now quite hard to find and if ebay is anything to go by, the prices are going up. The last pair on ebay UK went for just over £1.5k which is £300 more than I paid for mine new, albeit when they were discounted. It seems that the concept of a supercharger did not catch on and they were discontinued and only then people realised what an amazing power amp using the low level input they really are and treat the high level input is just an added bit of flexibility.

These are in Greece but it's worth looking out for a pair in the UK

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Musical-Fidelity-550K-Supercharger-monoblock-power-amplifiers-/170954365069?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D11%26meid%3D4482965531649752095%26pid%3D100 011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D290619908422%26

Macca

28-12-2012, 23:58

I have a Crown DC300A for sale bought and serviced by stewartwen from the wam.
this bested a MC2 450,650,Parasound A21 worth a punt at £350 plus delivery.

I'll come back to you on that tomorrow Rob

Thanks

HighFidelityGuy

29-12-2012, 00:24

I've been using an XTZ AP100 recently and found it excellent value for money. In class AB mode it'll run at 8, 4 or 2 ohms to deliver 110W, 180W or 350W. It can also be run in bridged mono. More info HERE (http://shop.xtz.se/bild-ljud/xtz/forstarkare/XTZ-Class-AP100-Silver)

It's a very good sounding amp for the money and the only bad things I can say about it are it sounds a bit restrained when it's cold (it warms up quickly) and it runs very hot in class A mode but you'd expect that. So they're only niggles really.

On the plus side it's reasonably priced, can run in class A or AB, has balanced and un-balanced inputs and it's available in three colour options. So it's worth a look.

Macca

29-12-2012, 00:29

Hi Dave

That is one I was not considering however now I am - the price is very reasonable for a new amp of that spec. Are corners cut anywhere?

HighFidelityGuy

29-12-2012, 11:24

It's difficult to say really. The case isn't as fancy as the sort of thing you'd get from Chord for example but it's finished to a high standard and has an understated minimal appeal. It's still made of pretty think aluminium all round, with the front fascia being very chunky. So I'd say they've cut back on the bling without sacrificing build quality.

The heatsinks and transformer are quite substantial and make the amp very heavy at 22Kg.
The phono inputs aren't the best I've seen but they're certainly not the worst either. The little switches on the back to select the input, strero/bridged mode and the power saving features are a bit small and flimsy but you only have to use them occasionally.

The power saving features are a nice touch though. You can choose to have the amp put it's self into standby if it's not used for 10 min, 30 min or 1 hour. It will also turn it's self on once it detects an input signal. The only problem I've found with this feature is that sometimes the amp switches it's self off when I'm trying to listen at low volumes at night.

Another thing worth considering is that the integrated version of this amp is only slightly more expensive but for the extra you get remote volume control, input selection and remote control of the class A/AB mode. You also get preamp inputs and outputs and other nice extras.

I've not tried to do any direct A/B comparison between the AP100 and my other amps but from what I can tell it seems to offer almost as much detail as my KEL84 valve amp but slightly less bass punch. Slightly more detail than my Musical Fidelity monoblocks but not quite as much dynamic range as them. So it sits somewhere in the middle despite costing half as much as I paid for the others. So I've found it a good all round amp.

I've only run mine in class A as my speakers are fairly sensitive (about 91dB I think) but do drop down to around 3 ohms at lower frequencies. I mainly got the amp to try out class A. I've found the 40-50W you get in class A plenty for my requirements but it's nice to know the amp can offer much more power at the press of a button.

I hope that helps. :)
I'll try to upload a photo so you can see how the amp looks in a system.

Macca

29-12-2012, 11:34

Dave I am much obliged for this input. I am guessing you were using the amp with your Opus 3 speakers? Is the integrated version a different model number? I'm guessing there is no phono input on the integrated also.

HighFidelityGuy

29-12-2012, 11:49

No problem.
You're right about the speakers.
Here's the integrated model: LINK (http://shop.xtz.se/bild-ljud/xtz/forstarkare/XTZ-Class-A-100-D3-Silver)
You can find the manual here: LINK (http://www.xtzsound.eu//product-assets/electronics/class-a100-d3-silver/manuals/Class-A100D3manual_eng.pdf)

And here's a couple of photo's of my AP100:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/DTM2000/Hi-Fi/XTZAP100_1_zps4913cfe1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/DTM2000/Hi-Fi/XTZAP100_2_zps3ac86028.jpg

:cool:

Macca

29-12-2012, 12:00

The integrated appears to be a mere 60 euros more than the power amp - and can be used as a power amp or pre amp also - very intersting. Have to say I am pretty much sold on this - not often that I buy brand new so that will be a novelty. It's only the lack of a phono stage that is causing me to hesitate - I got to have my vinyl fix :)

HighFidelityGuy

29-12-2012, 12:20

You could swap your Croft Micro Basic for a Croft RIAA (http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/RIAA.html). :eyebrows:
That should provide a very nice combo with the AP100D3 I reckon.

Macca

29-12-2012, 12:27

You could swap your Croft Micro Basic for a Croft RIAA (http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/RIAA.html). :eyebrows:
That should provide a very nice combo with the AP100D3 I reckon.

Yes I was thinking that:eyebrows: - but I have just notied that the integrated has MM and MC inputs :stalks:- remote control too, what luxury that will be!

I am going to pull the trigger on this unless someone has any other alternative or any reason not to go for it?

HighFidelityGuy

29-12-2012, 12:37

Wow, I didn't realise it had MM and MC inputs. I'm not sure how they'd compare to the Croft but I'm sure they're good enough to tide you over at least.

I'd probably have a look at what Icon audio have in your price range. I'm not sure how well their valve amps would cope with your speakers but they're worth a look. I'm sure they'd give you advice over the phone seen as they're UK based. Chord do some very nice amps that should fit the bill but they're not cheap new. Also have a look at the Usher R-1.5 (http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/electronics/r-1-5-amplifier). It's a bit pricey new but a couple have shown up on eBay recently.

That's all I can think of at the moment. :)

Macca

29-12-2012, 14:21

I've just ordered the XTZ integrated, should get here by the end of next week so will let you all know how I get on. Fingers crossed.

Many thanks and much appreciation to all of you who took the time to offer advice and suggestions. You are all stars of the first order :)

Ali Tait

30-12-2012, 16:35

Nice one Martin, be interested in your impressions of it.

chelsea

05-01-2013, 21:01

Have a magnum MF 250 if any good.

Doh.... just seen your now sorted.

Macca

06-01-2013, 09:29

Have a magnum MF 250 if any good.

Doh.... just seen your now sorted.

Thanks anyway Stu - although I am not sorted yet as more than a week on I have nothing to show for my 780 Euros other than a confirmation e-mail :(

Macca

07-01-2013, 13:51

New amp has arrived! Unfortunately it is at work and I am at home. Still I will have to go in and get it, none of this being patient nonsense for me!

HighFidelityGuy

07-01-2013, 13:58

Watch your back! They weigh a ton and the box is massive. :stalks:

Also make sure to check the fuse rating that's installed in the back. They supply two to cover the two mains voltages the amp can work with. The manual tells you which you need. :cool:

Macca

07-01-2013, 17:38

Watch your back! They weigh a ton and the the box is massive. :stalks:

Also make sure to check the fuse rating that's installed in the back. They supply two to cover the two mains voltages the amp can work with. The manual tells you which you need. :cool:

Your telling me! By the time I got it into the house I barely had the strength to lift it out of the box. I just lashed it up to see if it is working - oh yes it is working really quite well :eyebrows:

isuckedmandelsonslemons

07-01-2013, 18:44

I like the look of XTZ stuff. Your new amp doesn't exist without pictures.

Macca

07-01-2013, 22:40

I like the look of XTZ stuff. Your new amp doesn't exist without pictures.

Ah! A Doubting Thomas!

Okay then look at this picture of the flight deck of the U.S Nimitz - Oh no! Wait a minute ! It's my new XTZ Class A100D3 amplifier! ;)

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/xtz003_zpsf6e870fc.jpg

And another view as we circle round:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/xtz001_zpsc2a9746a.jpg

Full load of blah for those interested will follow on a new thread at the weekend - suffice to say so far using as an integrated and with CD only - really good,:D drives the speakers with ease - and they have seen off a lot of amplifiers.

isuckedmandelsonslemons

08-01-2013, 05:56

That is a very, very sexy-looking bit of kit. But FFS take that plastic protection film of the display. It's like blutac on a Rembrandt. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

synsei

08-01-2013, 07:49

I like that 'hewn from granite' look you get with XTZ kit, I hear their stuff sounds rather good too. Nice one Martin... :cool: