Swap electrolytic capacitors for solid state

[goodsguys]

Hi and thanks for reading this post.

Do you think it would be a good idea to replace the usual aluminium electrolytic capacitors on a Zero dac digital to analogue convertor board for the better specs of a solid state (polymer) type capacitor.

I have 4 aluminium electrolytic's around the dac chip (47uf 35v) which are swollen and leaking, and 4x 10uf 63v output coupling caps in the analog section, so 8 caps to replace in all, do you think a like for like replacement of the stock aluminium electrolytics for solid state polymer type caps would be okay in this situation.

I have done a google search and people have performed this on pc motherboards but there is not much on other types of equipment.

Many thanks in advance. John.

[MartinT]

I don't think the polymers are particularly good sounding. Their strength is the small size, ideal for PC motherboards.

For good sound, you should be looking for Black Gates (almost impossible to find nowadays), Elna Cerafine II or Nichicon MUSE.

[UV101]

I disagree about the solid polymer!!

I have a 1 or 2 BG's left kicking about and they are always my 1st choice on everything.

Without BG's I always use OsCon SEPC on digital rails but I use Cerefine (black ones not old the older red) on analogue rails. I dont really like Muse.

I would identify the pins on the DAC chip and work out whats analogue and whats digital. Use the very small SEPC 470uF for all rails if they are through hole :-)

This is the transport in my SA7001. The caps on the left are the SEPC. I have about 20 of them on the transport now
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/SA7001/68d2dcef9ffdccb9ba8071429bbab378.jpg

And The DAC is bottom left in this pic. The caps are a mix of SEPC, Black Gate and Cerefine.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr332/Trunky1812/SA7001/884c4b7726285cd51e48d5e63d7aaa70.jpg

If you post a photo of the offending area, I'll gladly offer my opinion ;)

[dowser]

I've recently replaced less than 22uf value electrolytics with polystyrene caps in a tuner and integrated amp (A&R A60/T21) very successfully.

Richard

[UV101]

I've recently replaced less than 22uf value electrolytics with polystyrene caps in a tuner and integrated amp (A&R A60/T21) very successfully.

Richard

Polystyrene caps are normally very low in value (nF and pF) and used in filter circuits. I'm not aware of having seen any approaching 22uF. Did you mean polymer? :scratch:

[DSJR]

If the replacements end up being electrolytics, I'd recommend higher voltage versions which should prevent swelling and leaking for some considerable time and possibly higher temp ones too, which I believe have better general characteristics anyway (hope I'm right here?)

[Rare Bird]

When i re-built my old 'A60' I remember using the New (At the time) Oscons (Their are different types, suited to different applications), fitted these in the phonostage, they wer'nt very high voltage rating but they were very low ESR. I also remember fitting the old but good Suflex Polystyrenes.

[goodsguys]

Hi. Thanks for the replies.

I do admit to having a fondness for the panasonic fm series. I placed a few in a power supply last year and they improved the sound no end, for the price the fm's cost it was brilliant. The only problem is that they only go up to 50v.

Think i will use the polymers around the dac chip where low esr is an advantage and probably silmic 2's or nichicon kz everywhere else.

Can anyone recomend a good desoldering iron for this job. I purchased this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-In-1-Welding-Electric-Soldering-Desoldering-Solder-Sucker-Removal-30W-220V-/300674664288?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item46019b4760

Thing is it melts the solder but the suction is very weak and it does not pick up the solder at all, can anyone recommend a 2-in-1 tool like this but with better suction. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a desoldering station for a one off job.

Many thanks. John.

[MartinT]

Andr'e is right, Sanyo Os-Cons are superb sounding electrolytics - but watch the voltage rating as they have very little tolerance for over-volts.

[UV101]

Hi. Thanks for the replies.

I do admit to having a fondness for the panasonic fm series. I placed a few in a power supply last year and they improved the sound no end, for the price the fm's cost it was brilliant. The only problem is that they only go up to 50v.

Think i will use the polymers around the dac chip where low esr is an advantage and probably silmic 2's or nichicon kz everywhere else.

Can anyone recomend a good desoldering iron for this job. I purchased this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-In-1-Welding-Electric-Soldering-Desoldering-Solder-Sucker-Removal-30W-220V-/300674664288?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item46019b4760

Thing is it melts the solder but the suction is very weak and it does not pick up the solder at all, can anyone recommend a 2-in-1 tool like this but with better suction. I don't want to spend a lot of money on a desoldering station for a one off job.

Many thanks. John.

Try to heat both legs of the cap at the same time. Add more solder to too while you are removing. I only ever use the solder sucker to remove the solder once the component is out. If you cant get both legs hot enough at the same time, just do one and rock the cap to one side then switch to the other. After a couple switches it will come out.

If you can source oscon sepc (solid polymer) for the digital rails they are worth the extra. I can probably sell you a few if you want, I think they cost me about £1.50 each. Definatley dont use any oscons on analogue rails. Panasonic FM are great in amps where you not running over 50v. I've got them in my restek (borderline on the voltage rails!) and they are good here. If you are going to pay for audio focussed caps for the analogue rails, cerefine are about a close to black gate as you'll get. I'm just waiting for some to arrive from the states :D

[dowser]

Polystyrene caps are normally very low in value (nF and pF) and used in filter circuits. I'm not aware of having seen any approaching 22uF. Did you mean polymer? :scratch:

A very good question - I am wrong, the Wima's at least were Metalized Polyester Film. I thought the 22uFs too (I forget the brand). I got them all from various group buys when I was modding Naim pres.

Photos of the amp and tuner below - whatever they are, they have transformed the sound compared to the previous electrolytics :)

Amp;
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/02/umaha2yh.jpg

Tuner;
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8065/8210862206_66a1feff1b_b.jpg

Richard

[UV101]

Those little red wima's are awesome. Unfortunately they are no longer in production. I have a them in the signal path on all the outputs in my Classe processor and a few other places too. I wish I could get hold of more. How on earth they made those values in that size, I have no idea. I have 2 left which will go into my ANT Kora i'm building now then thats it, all gone.

Like I said a real shame they stopped making them. Try finding a 10uF film cap with a 5mm spacing now!!!!

[dowser]

Oops - I used half my stock in my A&Rs...value of the caprts far outweigh value of the hardware :) Mind you, I also have a NAC 62 with them in, and will remove them again at some point (I think I prefer the tants in the Naim cct).

Richard

[Rare Bird]

If you can live with the LED display on those 'T21's they are a superb tuner.. I bought a brand new one when they first came out..

[goodsguys]

Hi. Thanks for the replies.

I don't use solder but instead i use solder paste, i find this melts the solder with less heat.
I place a blob on one leg, heat, then bend the capacitor to one side until it pops out. Repeat for the other leg.
Place another blob of paste on the pad, heat with a weller soldering iron, then place the hot 2-in1 solder sucker on the other side of the board and suck up the solder, this always works but i was hoping for a good 2-in1 tool which removes the solder in one go.

Many thanks. John.

[Rare Bird]

What Oscon's are available for Audio these days the 'SP'?

[UV101]

SEPC is what I use andre