RB250 tonearm with AT33 PTG [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Rowlf

18-12-2012, 23:30

I have heard the Audio Technica AT33PTG on a Graham Phantom tonearm and thought very well of it. It was very analytical and this is how I like my music normally. My music taste are mostly classical, opera and folk songs.

My deck is set up with an Origin Live RB250. Do you think it will be a good match? I have very little understanding about tonearm weight vs cartridge weight and would appreciate some advice. Thanks guys!

Patrick Dixon

19-12-2012, 21:16

I used that combination (with a Rega RB250) for a short while and it was fine. It was better when I'd rewired and re-counterweighted the RB250 though.

Johnnie7

19-12-2012, 21:57

what deck is it m8ty?

and rest of the system inc phono stage would be helpful

best wishes
j7

hifi_dave

19-12-2012, 22:27

Rowlf

20-12-2012, 00:16

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your help.

But what would be a good guide of determining tonearm mass vs cartridge weight = good match? Is there some kind of simple formula one could use to select the right cartridge?

Hi Johnnie7, the deck is a Luxman PD350 and the phonostage is a Nova Phonomena. The Nova is a fairly flexible deck albeit the slightly low gain means I have to be very careful with pre-amps I am using.

hifi_dave

20-12-2012, 10:17

There are various threads on this forum which explain cartridge/arm compatability but I just bung em in and listen to the result. IMO, very few incompatability problems arise.

AlfaGTV

20-12-2012, 13:15

Thats an awesome TT rowlf, please show us a picture?
And how much does it weigh? around 40-50lbs?

Regards /Mike

PS:
Vinyl Engine has got a nice resonance calulator for evaluating combinations:
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php
(Copy and paste in your favourite browser)

Beobloke

20-12-2012, 14:53

Will the combo work? Yes

Will you hear the AT33 at its best? No.

Rowlf

20-12-2012, 16:16

Thanks for the vote of confidence hifi_dave.

Alfa GTV, thanks for the link! I have previously posted the pictures in here. I thought it was an awesome TT as well. It might not be the most technologically advanced TT and its days have come and gone but there is something about this TT that makes you fall in love with it :) . I also think you are right about the weight but I will have to check with the manual. It is platter-heavy; which was kind of Micro Seiki philosophy when they built it in the early 80s. The ex-owner was very kind to let it go and I have promised him to look after it well.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12880&highlight=patched

Hi Adam, sorry if I speculate but is that because of the limitation of the RB250? Or the tonearm mass was not the best matched?

Beobloke

20-12-2012, 16:39

Yes - the RB250 is the limiting factor. Don't get me wrong - it's a fine arm, beautifully made and an astonishing bargain for its selling price, but it simply won't get the best out of an MC like the AT33.

chris@panteg

20-12-2012, 18:38

oldius

20-12-2012, 19:19

I have had the 33PTG in an RB251, Audiomods V, Origin Live Conqueror and a 12" Nottingham Ace Anna. It sounds good in them all but best in the Audiomods and Conqueror; both Rega derived arms.

It is a great cartridge for the money and the better arms simply release more of its capability as they should any quality cartridge. Just relax and enjoy it.

vacdac

20-12-2012, 19:45

I think Adam raises a valid point

I don't have a 33ptg, but I do have an AT33EV & recently upgraded from a Technoarm to my current Jelly 750d. I think it's fair to say the Technoarm is a considerable step up over a boggo RB250 (not so sure how far you've taken yours re OL mods?), but the 33EV is far better all round mounted on the Jelco. In light of this I'd prolly look elsewhere than the Rega Arms & their variants even the v heavily breathed on Audiomods which I'd agree is a brilliant arm BTW.

hifi_dave

20-12-2012, 22:29

Rowlf, the OP, already has a modified RB250 - he is asking about compatability with the AT.

vacdac

20-12-2012, 22:57

Indeed he does & I feel its clear I understood that if you read my post & I was agreeing with Adams (Beoblokes) sentiments re the Rega. I just stated my own experience using a Technoarm with an AT33EV which is a close relative of the cart the OP was asking about. As the Technoarm is in effect a highly fettled evolution of an RB250 I'm not sure how you think I was missing the point in suggesting that any RB250 variant may not IMV be a match made in heaven with these carts.

Rowlf, the OP, already has a modified RB250 - he is asking about compatability with the AT.

hifi_dave

21-12-2012, 10:22

I was merely pointing out that he does own a Origin Live modified RB250 and was asking if a specific cartridge would be compatible - which it will.

Now, if he had asked if other arms would be better, then I and others would advise that there are, but he didn't.

vacdac

21-12-2012, 11:15

Being compatible as you say is one thing. Being a good match & the arm getting the best out of the cart is entirely another, as Adam previously alluded. I don't really see the point in recommending a cart that won't perform at it's best in the arm being discussed. I'm not actually saying the AT33EV sounded bad in the technoarm far from it, but I was nowhere near getting the best out of it, with an arm significantly better than a stock RB250 & even an OL modded one too IMV.

To my mind it seems better to recommend a cart that's known to be a synergistic match with an RB250 & one which will have the max, in terms of SQ wrung from it by this arm.

Beobloke

21-12-2012, 11:38

What does Adam ?

The best I heard my old AT33 sound was, unsurprisingly, in an Audio Technica arm! The arm was the AT1130 and I've always felt it was a very under-rated design. I eventually sold it when I bought my HR-100S and still think perhaps I was a bit hasty!

To Rowlf, the AT 33 will be fine in the RB250 and should sound very nice. My previous comment simply reflects that fact that I think you should look at the arm first in the future when you fancy your next upgrade.

chris@panteg

21-12-2012, 11:53

[QUOTE=Beobloke;394698]The best I heard my old AT33 sound was, unsurprisingly, in an Audio Technica arm! The arm was the AT1130 and I've always felt it was a very under-rated design. I eventually sold it when I bought my HR-100S and still think perhaps I was a bit hasty!

Interesting and thanks , what about a 309 with the 33EV , this should be an excellent match but I just can't get it to sound right on my 1210 ? Have you heard this combo per chance ?

Rowlf

21-12-2012, 12:06

Thank you all. Really appreciate your suggestions got me thinking a lot.

I have ordered the AT33PTG after hearing that it will have no compatibility problems with RB250. Very important for me to know that and not repeat the mistake I had with DL103R. The resolution I have heard on Graham Phantom was very impressive, especially on jazz and got me hooked. I will report back with the results once I got hold of it. Obviously I will also have to be a bit realistic about my expectations so thanks for managing it for me guys!

Investing in a new tonearm is a good idea and the point about not maximising the cartridge potential is truly valid. Will screw my brains damn it. The arm board is not very flexible and depended on different Micro Seiki mount to accept other tone arms. I will take some pictures this weekend and appreciate some help to identify its compatibility.

Beobloke

21-12-2012, 13:00

Interesting and thanks , what about a 309 with the 33EV , this should be an excellent match but I just can't get it to sound right on my 1210 ? Have you heard this combo per chance ?

Haven't heard that combo myself. I have a 309, though and have just bought another SL1210 so maybe I should treat myself to an AT33 and try it out!

chris@panteg

21-12-2012, 14:24

Haven't heard that combo myself. I have a 309, though and have just bought another SL1210 so maybe I should treat myself to an AT33 and try it out!

If you do , I would love to know how you get on with it ! I was led to believe there was a synergy with this combination but it's anything but in my system ! Or there is something very wrong in my set up ?

Marco

21-12-2012, 15:36

I was led to believe there was a synergy with this combination...

Led a merry dance by 'Dastardly Dave', from Dartmouth, not doubt? ;)

Marco.

chris@panteg

21-12-2012, 15:56

Led a merry dance by 'Dastardly Dave', from Dartmouth, not doubt? ;)

Marco.

That's all done with Marco , other users have the same combo I'm sure of it and are probably getting better results than myself , though not many on here it seems ?

I prefer to think I'm just shite at setting up TT's:lol:

Audioman

27-12-2012, 18:47

That's all done with Marco , other users have the same combo I'm sure of it and are probably getting better results than myself , though not many on here it seems ?

I prefer to think I'm just shite at setting up TT's:lol:

The SME 300 arms disipate a lot of energy into the deck due to their stiffness. A lossy mounting arrangement might therefore be of benefit. Perhaps a wooden plate a la Marco might work better with this arm. Otherwise it could be deck isolation/mounting arrangements.

chris@panteg

27-12-2012, 23:24

The SME 300 arms disipate a lot of energy into the deck due to their stiffness. A lossy mounting arrangement might therefore be of benefit. Perhaps a wooden plate a la Marco might work better with this arm. Otherwise it could be deck isolation/mounting arrangements.

Thanks , I think i may have cracked it , took it off and had a brief fling with the precept mm into the pearl lite phono , and then remounted the 33EV , seems to be better ,need to listen some more .