Which DL-103?

[worrasf]

I know there are many fans of the DL-103 on AoS - folk who have lots of practical experience with it.

My Dynavector does not need the Puresound SUT my wife kindly brought me for Christmas and so I am in the daft position of looking for a LO MC cart so I can use it :doh: I have no plans to ditch the 10x5 which I am enjoying.

Given all the rave reviews here the DL-103 seems the obvious choice but should I get the standard or the 103R? OR Should I shell out more dollar for a ZuDL-103. By "shoudl I" I really mean would the rest of the system get the best out of the various models - is the ZuDL-103 "to good" for the Jelco 750?

Steve

[Riislingen]

Hi Steve,

I can definetely give the nod towards the Jelco/DL-103/SUT.

I´m using this combination on one of my decks (pic below). I´ve made the mod on the Denon myself, buying the alloy housing for in on The Bay - stripping the cartridge and gluing it in was a simple 15-20 min. operation, if you are a bit handy it should pose no problem for you. This will effectively turn a generic DL-103 into a Zu Audio type cart.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7880/dsc04590yi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/dsc04590yi.jpg/)

Thomas Schick has a video tutorial of this operation on his site:

http://www.thomas-schick.com/Denon103.htm

Using the metal body tightens up the midrange and bass somewhat, but does not kill the inherent nature and very intoxicating housesound of the Denon.

Cheap and cheerful, give it a spin.

[worrasf]

Hi Steve,

I´m using this combination on one of my decks (pic below). I´ve made the mod on the Denon myself, buying the alloy housing for in on The Bay - stripping the cartrdige and gluing it in was a 15-20 min. operation, if you are a bit handy.



Yes I saw this on ebay and thought it looked a useful mod - Good to know it works well in the Jelco - thanks
Steve

[OneyedK]

Given all the rave reviews here the DL-103 seems the obvious choice but should I get the standard or the 103R? OR Should I shell out more dollar for a ZuDL-103. By "shoudl I" I really mean would the rest of the system get the best out of the various models - is the ZuDL-103 "to good" for the Jelco 750?
The 103 is not a great match with your Puresound, it's impedance is a tad too high.
The 103R seems a perfect match with the 1:18 setting.

Same goes for the Zu Audio version:
http://www.zuaudio.com/docs/ZuDL103R1-A_Specs.pdf
Couldn't find the pricing of that cart on their messy website...
I suppose you have to email them for a quote.

With a matching headshell, the stock 103R will be perfect in a 750D.
I cannot try it yet, no Jelco at present and an SL-1200 that died on me, after 20 years, the sneaky bastard!

There's more to Zu than meets the eye, they really work with selected cartridges, something you cannot do.
So a rebodied DL-103R can be equal to a Zu, but depending on the cart you start from, it might not be.
Every good thing has it's price.

This said, I enjoy my stock 103R very much. If only the deck wanted to spin :doh:

[worrasf]

The 103 is not a great match with your Puresound, it's impedance is a tad too high.
The 103R seems a perfect match with the 1:18 setting.




Thanks Karl - just the info I needed.

Steve

[Wakefield Turntables]

I think this is a great topic and one that I shall be taking part in next year when I start looking for something for he 3012

[OneyedK]

I think this is a great topic and one that I shall be taking part in next year when I start looking for something for he 3012
If you still have to buy cart and SUT, the Lundahl LL1933 1:16 is THE perfect match for the 103R.
It's still on my to buy in the near future list, but there are other things on that list, the missus added those :rolleyes:

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've already got a Koetsu black strapped to the 3012 I'm not that sure the R version will me that much of an improvement over the stock 103, I'm sure tweaking the original 103 to get it upto 103r standards would be cheaper than actually buying the r. The sut is something that I will look into at some point. The 3012 and Koetsu live in my second system, so anything I do will be next year. :)

[OneyedK]

I'm sure tweaking the original 103 to get it upto 103r standards would be cheaper than actually buying the r.
The R has different coils and different damping.
It's in fact a different cart with the same cantilever and stylus...
I don't see how you can achieve the same with the "regular" 103.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well I've never really gone into modding carts before, tell me why you don't think I can achieve a similar sound the the standard 103. Remember listening is subjective ;)

[OneyedK]

Listening IS subjective...

But I had the chance of comparing the 103 and the 103R.
There's a fair bit more resolution in the bass of the 103R,
so I suspect the lesser number of coil windings of the R
have something to do with that phenomenon.
Since that's nothing you can change from "the outside",
I think a 103R cannot be simulated by a 103.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Listening IS subjective...

But I had the chance of comparing the 103 and the 103R.
There's a fair bit more resolution in the bass of the 103R,
so I suspect the lesser number of coil windings of the R
have something to do with that phenomenon.
Since that's nothing you can change from "the outside",
I think a 103R cannot be simulated by a 103.

You could be correct ;) but, there are aspect of the deck and tonearm setup etc which can be used to give additional bass. My room is quite small and my speakers big, so bass can be an issue, all the more reason to try a 103 over the r :cool:

[OneyedK]

I was talking about the resolution of the bass, not the loudness.
The bass of the regular 103 can be perceived as louder, but with less definition.

--> both carts were mounted on a stock technics, Nagaoka headshell, préamp was a simple V-LPS, no SUT or anything.

Anyway, I chose the 103R over the 103. So you could say I'm a little biased ;)

imho there are three reasons to choose the 103 over the 103R
1) budget, something we all need to respect
2) SUT is a 1:11 or lower
3) nostalgic/historical reasons

[Rowlf]

I tried both the DL103 and Dl103R on the TD124MKII. Both cartridge were unmodified. The R had so much bass and greater body that it sounded like it wasn't related to 103 at all. Too much bass for me and I felt that it has overwhelmed the musical presentation especially for classical listening which was what I listened to mostly.

For hard rock, the R kicked ass though and 103 would be too polite and perhaps lacked the head banging factor the R could give.

[OneyedK]

I tried both the DL103 and Dl103R on the TD124MKII. Both cartridge were unmodified. The R had so much bass and greater body that it sounded like it wasn't related to 103 at all. Too much bass for me and I felt that it has overwhelmed the musical presentation especially for classical listening which was what I listened to mostly.

For hard rock, the R kicked ass though and 103 would be too polite and perhaps lacked the head banging factor the R could give.
What arm/headshell/préamp were you using at the time?
A bass heavy R sounds to me like a mismatch somewhere...
(The R has less than half the impedance of the regular)

[Rowlf]

Hi Karl, the headshell was an old Audio Technica on a SME3009 tonearm. The impedence I have set was 120ohm for both. I decided on 120ohm as 100ohm sounded thin on the DL103 and I wanted a little more body. I have used the recommended tracking force of 2g for both.

Could that have been the cause of the bass-heavy sound?

[Marco]

No wonder it sounded thin... Who told you the recommended VTF was 2g, James? That's completely wrong! It's 2.5g for ALL DL-103s (apart from the 103Pro) :)

Marco.

[OneyedK]

Hi Karl, the headshell was an old Audio Technica on a SME3009 tonearm.
Could that have been the cause of the bass-heavy sound?
Unless it was an early heavyweight SME 3009, that arm is simply too light to keep an 103 in check.
Resonance can rise very quick with these beasts.

And as Marco states, VTF should be the recommended 2.5g.

[Rowlf]

Thanks Karl and Marco.

Damn it. Schoolboy error. I measured the tracking force before making any changes and it turned out to be 1.8g!

Hit the sweet spot with the DL103 and less temperamental in the midrange now which was a bit lightweight before.