WTD: Decca Cartridge or...

[The Black Adder]

Hi

I'm looking for a new cartridge. Would like to try a Decca (Maroon, Gold).

I have a medium mass tone arm (SME 3009 S2 None improved, detachable headshell) which I love dearly so I'd like something that would go with that.

I would consider something that's along the same lines of my Shure V15 Type III in presentation/sound if a Decca is nowhere to be found.

The other option is to just go and get another Jico SAS stylus but maybe try the HE (Hyper Elliptical) version as I'm currently using the SAS none HE.

The V15 Type III with the original Shure (practically unused) stylus could be put in as part ex if the right cart comes up.

Lots of options here but I would like a MM cart as I'm using the most excellent Croft phono stage and I don't really have the budget for MC / SUT.

Budget £250 / Paypal is best for me. Suggestions on new carts are welcome but something second hand and unused or lightly used would be best I think.

Cheers, PM's welcome.

[Berni217]

Hi Joe,
If you can find one, I would advise you to hunt for a Decca SC4E or C4E. These carts are far more superior to the Maroon or Gold. They are very special and can challenge very high-end cartridges.
Any condition would do as you can get them rebuilt for a fair price by ESCO or John Wright of (Decca) London.
Good luck,
B.

[The Black Adder]

Hi Bern.

Many thanks for that I've heard about the Decca SC4E before. So I would love to try one. It's finding one that's the problem.

[Berni217]

Hi Joe,

Mervyn (29mile) from Hifi Wigwam (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/member.php?4402-29mile) may have one C4E for sale, which is already rebuilt.

He is a nice guy, so feel free to contact him.

B.

[stewartwen]

Joe, here is the BAD NEWS. Decca carts or the new London carts will not give their best in a SME arm. Regardless of damping trough filled with that awful silicone!
So if you really want to try a Decca or London you will need to use a UNI-PIVOT or an airbeam parallel tracking arm.
S

[The Black Adder]

Hi Bern.

Many thanks for that, I'll send him a PM.

Hi Stewart.

It seems to be a little bit of a grey area regarding the SME. The 3009 I have is the medium mass version (none improved) and has been said that it suits Decca quite well. There are quite a few people that use this arm with Decca's and have had very good results so I just thought I'd give it a go.

[Berni217]

Hi,

I am using a Jelco SA-750D with heavier counterweight with fantastic results. John from (Decca) London did not say otherwise when I recently asked him if it was fine to use my SC4E with the Jelco.

A few folks out there use Hadcock arms, which might be your case Stewart. I cannot comment though as I have never tried one.

London Decca Supergold FS on http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?79529-FS-Harbeth-C7es-and-London-Decca-Supergold. Not as good as the *C4E though.

Cheers,
B.

[Barry]

Joe, here is the BAD NEWS. Decca carts or the new London carts will not give their best in a SME arm. Regardless of damping trough filled with that awful silicone!
So if you really want to try a Decca or London you will need to use a UNI-PIVOT or an airbeam parallel tracking arm.
S

Rubbish! I (and others) have heard Deccas fitted to conventional pivoted pickup arms performing extremely well. One of the best Decca experiences I have had, was with a Decca Mk. IV (H4E) fitted to a Decca ffss (Super) arm. The latter arm is not a unipivot, yet was designed by Decca for use with their cartridges.

Even unipivot arms need to be damped (with silicone oil having a higher viscosity than that used by SME).

[hifi_dave]

I do believe that there was a Decca to SME adaptor plug jobbie for use with the earlier and higher mass SME arms. So SME thought it was a viable combination.

If all else fails, the red plastic Decca mounting bracket 'loses' some of the energy generated and makes the SME a possible.

[Barry]

I do believe that there was a Decca to SME adaptor plug jobbie for use with the earlier and higher mass SME arms. So SME thought it was a viable combination.

If all else fails, the red plastic Decca mounting bracket 'loses' some of the energy generated and makes the SME a possible.

Yes there was, though it was intended for use with the Decca 'heads': Mk. II, III and IV.

I use the GB mounting block with the Decca Mk. V and VI, which avoids using the red plastic mounting bracket.

[hifi_dave]

Yes there was, though it was intended for use with the Decca 'heads': Mk. II, III and IV.

I use the GB mounting block with the Decca Mk. V and VI, which avoids using the red plastic mounting bracket.

Yes, I hate that bracket which lets the cartridge drop out every time you remove the stylus guard. The 'mod' is a small blob of BluTak on top of the cartridge, under the headshell. I think it also improves the sound somewhat.

The GB block or Deccapod are the way to go if the arm is up to the job, otherwise, the bracket (plus blob) are more sympathetic to a less than ideal arm.

[The Black Adder]

Hmm.. very interesting stuff chaps.. Good ere innit! :) :)

[Dingdong]

I've got a Decca Gold in need of a rebuild that I could let you have for a lowish price.

PM me if interested.

[DSJR]

The better deccas (C4E? and Golds) had a higher lateral compliance I believe and were designed to trace and track at 1.5g or thereabouts. My Gold Microscanner in DeccaPod worked superbly in the TD125/Rega R200/Nagaoka-Sumiko-style headshell, tracking flawlessly and with great precision, if not quite the welly as my old Mentor deck and arm could achieve.

If you can get the knackered Gold for not much, it's then well worth while sending it off to Presence Audio for a refurb and rebuild if necessary. The good thing is that, temperamental as they have always been, they can be repaired to return the magic to full potential :)

P.S. Don't worry about the SME as long as you use a more solid shell. The FD200 damper really does work with baby oil in it and with the smallest paddle shaved to a point.

[Barry]

The better deccas (C4E? and Golds) had a higher lateral compliance I believe and were designed to trace and track at 1.5g or thereabouts. My Gold Microscanner in DeccaPod worked superbly in the TD125/Rega R200/Nagaoka-Sumiko-style headshell, tracking flawlessly and with great precision, if not quite the welly as my old Mentor deck and arm could achieve.

If you can get the knackered Gold for not much, it's then well worth while sending it off to Presence Audio for a refurb and rebuild if necessary. The good thing is that, temperamental as they have always been, they can be repaired to return the magic to full potential :)

P.S. Don't worry about the SME as long as you use a more solid shell. The FD200 damper really does work with baby oil in it and with the smallest paddle shaved to a point.

I have used at least three Deccas in my SME, fitted with the FD200 damper with the (seemingly) thick, viscous silicone oil, with the smallest paddle. It doesn't need shaving to a point.

In fact, I have found a small amount of damping (with the above arrangement) beneficial with a whole range of cartridges used in an SME arm (3009/II): EMTs; Decca's; Denon 103's and Ortofon's (the SL15E's and more recently the SPU's).

I have found all Decca's worth pursuing. All can be be rebuilt or refurbished by Presence Audio. In my experience Decca Blues and Golds work well in SME arms fitted with the F200 dashpot, using the (seemingly) thick and viscous silicone oil with the smallest paddle.

Deccas are cantankerous, unreliable, subject to appalling build quality, and sample-to-sample variation. Yet, are one of the few cartridges that portray an excitement, a superbly flat, neutral and realistic mid-band, and a transient attack and sense of dynamics ‘to die for’. Don’t underestimate them! There is a real ‘magic’ to them.

Whether this is accuracy or not – I don’t care. There is always a place for a Decca in my set up.