someone help please

[seoirse2002]

ok,so I sold my Rogers Ls-5 speakers...I will admit they needed cosmetic refurb having been in the garage of the former owner who happened to be a former employee of rogers in Mitcham.....speakers sounded great to me using both my systems with no distortion or any other problems....buyer sent a friend to pick them up and I let him hear them before he took them away and he was happy..... now the buyer has got in touch saying the speakers are distorting at low volume using his rogers cadet mk 3.....he also says there is glue all over the drivers and now he is saying that they are crackling??????(he says its not his amp as it works fine with his wharfdales)
I was using them for over 6 months with absolutely no problems and no distortion at any volume,and usually I only play low volume,I never heard any crackling and as far as I am aware,the "glue" he is talking about is done at the factory....any thoughts?... I would think that his amp isn't driving them properly......funny he doesent want his money back....just "cash adjustment" to put them right and replace faulty drivers etc..... he was aware that the cabs needed to be refurbed,but he is a french polisher so that wasn't a problem for him......I advertised collection only and that I wanted the buyer to hear them before taking them away......but as he sent someone else,he is claiming that he(as the buyer) would not have bought them if he had heard them himself,yet his friend was very happy with them,and heard no problems,otherwise he would have said.......what do I do?...he is threatening all sorts...bad feedback etc. etc...and I find it quite upsetting that he is accusing me of shady practice...I would not be offering any potential buyers to come and hear them before paying if they were faulty......I have 2 very hotheaded younger brothers that say thay will pay him a visit if he doesent desist on calling me a conman and threatening to turn up at my house for a refund at xmas......how do I deal with this? ....I personally think its buyers remorse and he just doesent like them and thinks theyre not worth what he paid so wants some money back.

[Dingdong]

You can either refund him, if he returns the speakers in the condition they left you in. With the original drivers. Or let ebay deal with it. It's probably 50/50 which way it will go with ebay.
That's the joy of ebay.

[Mr Kipling]

Can you not arrange to visit so you can hear for yourself and take your own amp with you to show him there wasn't a problem when you had them?

[Lodgesound]

He has a right to ask for a full refund if the goods are not fit for purpose - he does not have any rights to ask for "cash adjustments" or anything of that nature as that is effectively potentially fraudulant on his part. He would have to prove that he did not cause the damage himself which he would not be able to do.

Offer him a complete refund on return of the speakers. He is threatening negative feedback.....for what exactly? Your agreement to provide him with a full and uncontested refund?

I'm sorry but these people are just idiots and take the piss. They have absolutely no idea of law in these matters and simply trade on your insecurity.

If you refund him and he keeps the goods then that is theft and becomes a Police matter. What he is suggesting with this "cash adjustment" is actually extortion when coupled with his other ignorant and utterly empty threats.

[Smoker]

the guy sounds like a nob, id give him his money back making sure the speakers are as you sold them first. if hes talking about coming round your house on christmas day tell he better be dressed as santa with your speakers in his sack.

[John]

I am with Stewart on this
Ebay will generally go on the side of the buyer in these cases. So offering him a refund is perhaps the best option. Unfortunately ebay have a few of these people and best toput them on your blocked list

[HoraceW]

The buyer may not necessarily have a right to refund. Under the Sale of Goods Act Section 13 may not apply as item was demonstrated on collection and accepted by his agent. Section 13 deals with description only and not quality and Section 14 deals with quality but does not apply if private sale and no breach or misrepresentation. Additional tests for acceptability and usability may be applied if there were a court case.

Hugh

[walpurgis]

Sale of goods act does not apply to private transactions.

[Alex_UK]

Maybe he has over-driven them and fried them and is now trying it on?

[Dingdong]

I had a problem with some speakers I bought off ebay. I picked them up and didn't listen to them. He had listed them as working perfctly. Paid cash. Bad move.
Turned out both supertweeters were fucked and there was a crack in the metal of a woofer. He accused me of busting them or replacing the drivers.
Ebay could do nothing. Left neg feedback, but that doesn't mean a lot.
If he does neg you you can always leave a response to the feedback to say that they were picked up and listened to.
If I was reading that after some neg feedback it would not put me off the seller.

If he payed by Paypal then the situation may be different.

[Patrick Dixon]

This seems to be becoming common practice by eBay buyers to negotiate discounts on items they have already bought.

There's nothing wrong with the speakers, he's just trying it on. Stick to offering a full refund for return in the condition he bought them, and nothing else. If he leaves neg feedback, report it to eBay and leave a reply saying it's because you wouldn't give him a post-transaction discount.

[Macca]

His quarrel should be with the agent who bought the item on his behalf. Private sale face to face, cash transaction - he has no right to a refund or anything else. I would tell him where to stick his empty threats and take the negative feedback. It would be worth it for the satisfaction. If he doesn't like what he bought it is up to him to sell them on.

[seoirse2002]

thanks for all the help so far guys.....just one question,is it possible that distortion can be caused to bass in the music at low volume if his amp isnt driving them properly?.....and also crackle?? I never heard crackle from a speaker that didnt originate from an amp...any thoughts?

[Canetoad]

Honestly, tell him to take it up with his mate. Keep a baseball bat near the front door on Xmas day. :eyebrows:

[synsei]

George, have all the communications between you and the buyer been through the ebay messaging system?

You have a PM George ;)

[seoirse2002]

no,
the communication has been by text and he wants to be "reimbursed heavily" as he says one of the drivers needs to be replaced as it buzzes when playing anything with low tones and they also crackle....he wants to save me any hassle with ebay so is happy for me to reimburse him outside of ebay!!.....none of these "faults" were ever apparent to me and his friend who collected them was quite impressed with the sound....I have to say its been over a week since his friend collected them and he says he has only got them now.

He has now made a claim thru ebayer saying that I havent contacted him or responded to him and wants a partial refund of 100 quid!!!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well the last thing you want to do is let your brothers go around, no-one wants a criminal record do they ;)

[dantheman91]

Too me it seems that he has probobly overdriven them or the amplifier could be at fault. The problem is getting someone else to listen to them who could have a glue on how to spot signs etc.

You have got to think at the end of the day is it worth the hassel.

:scratch:

[synsei]

I bet he doesn't want to go through ebay, nice scam! If you decide to fight your corner George you will want to be keeping those texts. If he has only just taken delivery of the speakers from his mate then you are quids in legally, anything could have happened to those speakers in the intervening period, the responsibility for their welfare lies with the friend he sent to collect them. His friend can hardly claim that they were faulty as he listened to them and was happy with what he heard. Ebay will say he accepted them in that condition so tough luck.

One tip for the future: The next time a buyer plumps for 'cash on collection', have some paperwork handy for the buyer to sign which states that he/she is happy with the condition of the goods and will accept them on that basis. Another thing George, if your postage settings are set to 'returns not accepted' then it's end of story as far as ebay are concerned.

I reckon what has happened here is that the buyers buddy has taken them home and hooked them up to some crappy Midi system and blown the driver. Buddy has either told his mate he has damaged them and the buyer is trying to pull a fast one, or more likely Buddy-Boy hasn't told his mate and the buyer is putting the damage down to you.

[Dingdong]

no,
the communication has been by text and he wants to be "reimbursed heavily" as he says one of the drivers needs to be replaced as it buzzes when playing anything with low tones and they also crackle....he wants to save me any hassle with ebay so is happy for me to reimburse him outside of ebay!!.....none of these "faults" were ever apparent to me and his friend who collected them was quite impressed with the sound....I have to say its been over a week since his friend collected them and he says he has only got them now.

He has now made a claim thru ebayer saying that I havent contacted him or responded to him and wants a partial refund of 100 quid!!!

If he paid cash and they then there is nothing ebay can or will do. I'd just ignore the fecker.
You might get negged, but I doubt it. And you can respond to the neg.

[seoirse2002]

Well the last thing you want to do is let your brothers go around, no-one wants a criminal record do they ;)

Hi Andrew,
No not at all,my brothers wouldent do anything criminal,they would just advise him about turning up at my door on xmas day and ask to examine the speakers while they were there.:cool:

[Martinh]

How far away are they? I'd have been over there already to sort it out.

[seoirse2002]

he is now using ebay to communicate and is making a claim for partial refund of 100 quid....his reasons are that they have been repaired in the past and that there is brown glue stains around the rubbers on one of them and that the cone is damaged causing it to crackle and vibrate at low bass.....he also says his friend knows nothing about hi fi and that I fooled him by playing an ipod through the speakers!!! yes,i played an sbt and an ipod through the speakers for his friend...through a marantz pm80 in class A using a track with very low bass and great seperation to let him hear how good they sounded...the track is on a demo cd that was used at a hi fi show to demo speakers!! Maria Nakamoto "georgia on my mind" (for those of you interested in hearing it)
I have seem many old Rogers speakers where the glue around the rubbers was not perfect and it does go brown with age,but there again,thats why speakers have covers,and even if somehow some of the rubber has come away....100quid to reglue?
I have totally not accepted his claims and told him that I was unlikely to sell them and invite the buyer to hear them first if they were faulty and as I had no control over their use or treatment since they left me,I will not be giving any refund as doing so would be tantamount to accepting that they were faulty to begin with,which they were not....lets see what he says next:cool:

[Canetoad]

That sounds perfectly fair to me George. :)

[Audioman]

He's obvoiusly taking the piss and may have damaged them himself. Right not to give him a refund. You could suggest you pay him a visit with a few friends just to verify his alegations. :donk:

[seoirse2002]

He's obvoiusly taking the piss and may have damaged them himself. Right not to give him a refund. You could suggest you pay him a visit with a few friends just to verify his alegations. :donk:

I cant really do that,but I guess I could demand he bring them to London so I can check them and test them using the same(my) equipment....before I consider any of his claims....
but there again,that would cast a shadow of doubt over my claim that they were working perfectly if Im willing to even consider his claim
But if he brought them back and they were not working,I can refuse to accept them as "not in the condition that he received them in"

A lot of this is hanging on the friends statement who picked them up who said
"he just played an ipod through them" and I really dont know anything about hi fi......(yea right, but he took a picture of my rack with his iphone and seemed suitably impressed with the sound he was hearing)

Im just a little concerned,as I read that ebay can decide to reimburse him anyway and just take it out of my paypal whether I like it or not,although he paid cash.... and let this guy get away with it.....mmm maybe Ill call ebay tomorrow

[Lodgesound]

In Law his having paid for the speakers signifies his acceptance that they are fit for purpose.

In actual fact he is not by default entitled to any kind of refund although you can offer one (which you have possibly) out of good nature. It is up to the buyer to determine the use of equipment purchased and it's suitability for intended use

He has no right whatsoever to demand any money from you having paid in the first instance. He can either keep them as they are or return them whereupon you can offer a full refund.

To offer a parallel you can't buy a car secondhand, agree to the terms and then try and get a further discount after the fact because you (the buyer) decide that you either don't like something or the car develops a fault of some kind. Faults are generally covered by a post-sale guarantee but in most circumstances any "inconvenience" caused to the buyer as a result of repair work having to be carried out post sale is just hard luck.

I assume you offered no warranty with these. My advice is to just get them back and refund him. Ebay will most likely rule in your favour due to his blatant lack of knowledge regarding retail law.

[spendorman]

Perhaps the speakers were damaged in transit.

[seoirse2002]

Perhaps the speakers were damaged in transit.
Well I have to say when I seen his friend putting them in the boot of his car,with the speaker posts on one facing the drivers on the other I was concerned enough to put them right way round and tell him why....and I guess they rattled around his car boot all the way to Yorkshire,but he is saying that some of the rubber around one of the the woofers is unstuck and that they have been poorly repaired on a previous occassion. I bought them originally from a former Rogers employee,who,if they were repaired,would have done it properly. Having said that,I have had old speakers in the past where I seen this and a little dab of rubber glue secured them again....the rubbers on these speakers were all stuck properly and I put hi res pics of the drivers on ebay when selling them and as I said before,there was definitely none of the issues he is talking about with them.
by the way.....someone has told me that if his amp cannot drive them properly at low volume they would distort until the volume is put higher? Is this true? He is using a rogers cadet amp which I believe is 10wpc and Im told this may be the cause of bass distortion at low volume....any truth in this?
In answer to another comment....he doesent want a refund....he wants me to give him 100quid to have the driver repaired/replaced so basically half of what I sold the speakers for....
Under no circumstances do I want to give him any refund as Im not sure what he has done to them and they were working fine before he got them.