large rooms

[moo-fi]

Anyone here got any tips for dealing with large rooms. As I will be moving to a new house in the new year and the main room which will house the hifi is a lot bigger than anything I have dealt with before. Approx 24 feet by 30 feet with a 12 foot ceiling :stalks:.
Now my speakers are not exactly small but I suspect more power will be required to get the throw necessary. Would some room treatment help as the the whole house needs a lot of work and now would be a good time to think about such things. Any bright ideas most welcome.

[Floyddroid]

Well, first of all congrats you lucky bounder. Secondly, which speakers are you using?

[moo-fi]

Lucky, no the house goes with the other half's job so it will need lots of tlc and be cold and drafty for a while.
As for speakers, old Focal Electra 936 with an old 300il krell in the driving seat.
The floor is stone with carpet on top as the house is over 200 years old which also means nothing is level.

[Macca]

Nice problem to have. Your new room seems to be about twice what I have which I have always felt would be about ideal. It is abig room but not a cavern so I don't think the amp and speakers will struggle at all. Stone floors may be uneven and cold but no issues with bouncing floorboards, that is a big plus espcially if you a re running a deck.

[walpurgis]

Just buy some big vintage Tannoys or JBLs and you're worries will be over. You may even like them!

[Reid Malenfant]

A big room can & possibly will be a real pain :rolleyes:

You'll be shifting the room modes to a lower frequency due to the room size, this will probably make them much more difficult to deal with.

I wish you luck, though with a room that size as long as you aren't going to be asking your speakers to reproduce sub 25Hz you might just be in luck ;) You may well avoid the worst room modes.

That's big, in fact it's huge! :eyebrows:

[Puffin]

Our lounge is about the same size, but only 7ft ceilings. I don't have a system in there as I have a man cave, but I have tried to get decent sound in there (beacause you have to try don't you ;)) and I have never been able to get good bass. No boom, but no real bass:doh:

[moo-fi]

Having no bass will be an issue to the other half. But as with all these things I will have to try things. Just got hold of a drum of van damme cable as even the speaker cable runs are going to be rather long, somewhere around 10m. Certainly rules out any fancy cables,
It looks like I will need subs to fill in lower frequencies as my speakers without any boost from nearby walls sound thin. Otherwise it will be time to invest in some large speakers, bear in mind my current ones stand just under four feet tall. Other than that the mains is shocking but a new spur is going in to sort that.

[Macca]

Any chance of some pictures of the room, Fred? Surprised your current speakers are not up to it but I suppose it depends on how they are balanced. Great opportunity to try some big JBLs - if you can find some - people don't tend to sell them on for some reason...

[MikeMusic]

Anyone here got any tips for dealing with large rooms. As I will be moving to a new house in the new year and the main room which will house the hifi is a lot bigger than anything I have dealt with before. Approx 24 feet by 30 feet with a 12 foot ceiling :stalks:.
Now my speakers are not exactly small but I suspect more power will be required to get the throw necessary. Would some room treatment help as the the whole house needs a lot of work and now would be a good time to think about such things. Any bright ideas most welcome.

Have similar, could be a bit smaller, 7-8' ceiling. Must measure again and make a note !
Start at the beginning, not like me.
Get the mains sorted and in particular the earth. Dedicated circuit for the hifi. Spur I think seems to be best. I have a ring
I promise you that will take the bass to a different place
I listen in one spot and even with work in progress think my system, see below does a fine job
Sounds appalling in one corner, quite likely in all 4 !
Either way you almost certainly should look at some sound tweaking in the room with panels or bass traps.
Is this Wycombe / High Wycombe ?
If so you could pop down one Sunday an have an earful

[MikeMusic]

Our lounge is about the same size, but only 7ft ceilings. I don't have a system in there as I have a man cave, but I have tried to get decent sound in there (beacause you have to try don't you ;)) and I have never been able to get good bass. No boom, but no real bass:doh:

+1 on room
See full answer above
I think I have good bass, wonderful at times
I'm in Chobham so maybe a visit on a Sunday to hear what you think .....

[MikeMusic]

Having no bass will be an issue to the other half. But as with all these things I will have to try things. Just got hold of a drum of van damme cable as even the speaker cable runs are going to be rather long, somewhere around 10m. Certainly rules out any fancy cables,
It looks like I will need subs to fill in lower frequencies as my speakers without any boost from nearby walls sound thin. Otherwise it will be time to invest in some large speakers, bear in mind my current ones stand just under four feet tall. Other than that the mains is shocking but a new spur is going in to sort that.
I put all my kit on one wall to cut down on cable runs.
10m on nice speaker cable is a mortgage !
Have a look at in wall mains cable from the nice Mr. MainsCablesaRUs.
I have never been keen on subs and was interested to see Martin T's system remove them when he went to his Ushers. With sensible amps they would fill an aircraft hangar I'm sure, but I reckon my Isobariks would do well

[tannoyman]

Hi Fred

Most posts suggest that a large room can be a problem. Let me be clear, big rooms are not a problem but an opportunity. A well set-up a large room can give sound which is much less 'hi fi' and more 'music'

I have a big room though not as big as yours. My tips would be to spend a lot of time finding the optimum position for the kit before you start filling it with furniture. It can be a bugger to sort these things out later once it is being lived in particularly if electrics need to be moved.

I do not know the detail of the room and its layout so I can only make a couple of general comments. Once you have decided where the kit goes best. The front wall (with speakers on) should be relatively reflective and lively and the rear wall should be damped. In my room I have wall paper on the front wall and hessian wallpaper on the rear wall. Exposed brickwork on the rear wall is covered by a hanging rug which works well.

If the floors are concrete or stone my preference would be for fitted carpets which can provide just the right amount of damping without overdoing it

My personal view is that room treatment systems are best avoided unless you have some real nasties in the way of standing waves. In my opinion it creates as many problems as is solves. Given the dimenions of the room it is unlikely that you will have serious issues with this. My preference would be for the room to be slightly underdamped rather than overdamped. Over damped rooms sound dull and lifeless - in a word boring. Better that it's a bit too lively.

I cannot really advise on kit because that will be largely determined by your tastes. I prefer to combine high effeciency louspeakers with high power hardware but that's because I listen to a lot of very large scale classical material. Horn loudspeakers work very well in large spaces.

Hope this is helpful

Kind regards

David :christmas:

[Puffin]

+1 on room
See full answer above
I think I have good bass, wonderful at times
I'm in Chobham so maybe a visit on a Sunday to hear what you think .....

Yes, I like to hear what others have got. Will PM you in the New Year:)

[MikeMusic]

Yes, I like to hear what others have got. Will PM you in the New Year:)

All ideas welcome
Steal any good ideas I stumbled on !

[MikeMusic]

Having no bass will be an issue to the other half.
>no bass

The bass you get from a 'good system' is very different from a not so good system.
My system sound rubbish when we first moved in to the current place
The big cure was dedicated mains sockets, improved earthing, Kimber mains leads, now being replaced by MCRU.
Good interconnects and all the above changed the bass *substantially*
Tighter and more accurate. Doesn't waffle now. Deeper, tighter, way more accurate.
First listen to this system as is or any sorted or on the way to being sorted system may well tell you it lacks bass.
So be prepared to give it a good go before deciding to spend dough

[moo-fi]

So latest update, spending most spare time I don't have sorting the move as I have less than eight weeks to get the new place sorted and the family moved in. Meeting the project manager again on the 18th to talk mains and floors. Due to work constraints I suspect the floor will be wood with large mats.
The room shape appears to be good as a large bay windows which are room width and full height break up the large rectangle at the expense of some echo.
Plans for mains are decent grade MK sockets on twin spurs ready for future upgrades, unless there are better alternatives for sane money.
Otherwise I am up to my eyes with stripping walls and ceilings every weekend, with lots of travel. Moving from Wycombe to Wales (Pembrokeshire) has lots of up but it the miles are racking up, please keep the ideas coming in.
Many thanks

[MikeMusic]

So latest update, spending most spare time I don't have sorting the move as I have less than eight weeks to get the new place sorted and the family moved in. Meeting the project manager again on the 18th to talk mains and floors. Due to work constraints I suspect the floor will be wood with large mats.
The room shape appears to be good as a large bay windows which are room width and full height break up the large rectangle at the expense of some echo.
Plans for mains are decent grade MK sockets on twin spurs ready for future upgrades, unless there are better alternatives for sane money.
Otherwise I am up to my eyes with stripping walls and ceilings every weekend, with lots of travel. Moving from Wycombe to Wales (Pembrokeshire) has lots of up but it the miles are racking up, please keep the ideas coming in.
Many thanks
Think about better mains cabling in the walls. No real chance of changing it once in. You can do better than the MK sockets but they can wait for when you have more time.
Would be useful to look at building in room treatment if you can spare some time

[Sonority]

With regard to your electric mains.
Can I be a little *pedantic* and say you need RADIALS from your distribution board.
A *SPUR* is simply a new single wire taken from an existing cable - usually a ring main. You do not want that.
Best of all is a seperate DB for all your radials (as many as you want until the board is full :) 6mm T&E is great but be prepared for some serious bad looks from your sparky. Some even question your sanity ;) Un switched sockets are fine. M&K used to be the best - probably still are, but they now use bent plated strip inside instead of the solid brass of previous times :(
With regard to a big room. Way easier to make a big room smaller than a small room bigger.
If you can - aim for symetry from the sitting position to the speakers - this can help a lot.
If you cant achieve symetry - no big deal - plenty is possible.
A hard floor is not a problem if done correctly - I have only carpet tiles covering mine and it's fine :)

Good luck - we love Pembroke, holidayed there for many, many years, and will continue to do so. Some great shark fishing to be had as well :)

[moo-fi]

Well before I start on the main music room I have attached a piccy hopefully.

[StuN]

For another perspective, you might also like to read "Acoustic Treatment and Design for
Recording Studios and Listening Rooms" by Ethan Winer:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

[MikeMusic]

For another perspective, you might also like to read "Acoustic Treatment and Design for
Recording Studios and Listening Rooms" by Ethan Winer:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Thanks
Good pointer

[moo-fi]

So good that I have just order the book, many thanks.

[jandl100]

Big room? -- it will tend to be very reverberant, clouding detail and precision but producing an enveloping sound that some will folk will like and regard as more 'musical'.

Me? I have a medium sized room (12x20ft) but even in that I choose to listen in the near-field to reduce further the modest amount of room reverb that occurs. I want to hear as little 'room' added to the sound on the recording as possible!

[moo-fi]

Well the room is ready and we will move in on Tuesday next week. Now to find out just how much it will echo. Bass traps are on order for the corners and I have some decent length speaker cable already (Chord bi-wire of some description) until I have finished moving stuff about and settle on a final plan.
Many thanks for all your help on here now to put it into practice.