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View Full Version : Proper NAS for Naim ND5 XS



dkrause
08-12-2012, 20:32
Let me start by saying I am new to the forum so I apologize in advance if I don't handle this post correctly. I am at an impasse with my ND5 XS and I am hoping someone can give me some real world guidance based on personal experience.

I purchased the ND5 XS to handle two main tasks. First, I am using it as a DAC for my Oppo BDP-95 and for that it works great. Second, I wanted it to stream music from a NAS drive. In this regard I had a couple of goals. First, I wanted the Naim/NAS communication to take place independent of my computer. Second, I wanted the Naim to be able to access not only hi-res files purchased form HDTracks (for example) but also my iTunes library and any other music files contained therein. I have now experimented with two different NAS drives with less than acceptable results. Here is what I have done so far:

1. Drobo FS: I used the Drobo FS successfully last year with a Logitech Squeezebox Touch to stream all sorts of music to my system. The Logitech of course ran some sort of media server software and in doing so, it easily found all of my music on my Drobo FS and played it all back just fine. There were a couple of formats it could not handle but overall, it worked consistently. When trying to use the Naim and the Drobo, I am stuck needing some sort of software interface to facilitate the discussion between the two units. Drobo has "DroboApps" and I have installed both Fuppes and Firefly. I was unable to access Firefly to do any configuration and while I can access Fuppes, the best I could get was the Naim seeing one of the three music folders I added - although it was unable to play any tracks contained in that folder. The connection is stable to the Drobo FS but the software seems lacking. I have been trying to post on the Drobo forum to see if something like Twonky could run on the Drobo but I have not gotten anywhere.

2. WD MyBook Live Duo: On a recommendation from my local Naim dealer, I recently purchased a WD MyBook Live Duo. It runs some sort of DLNA software and it appeared that my problems may have been solved. Unfortunately, despite multiple calls to WD, I cannot figure out why the connection to the WD drive keeps disappearing. To fix that I have to re-boot everything. That in turns causes the WD to re-build the database...it's all very inelegant and VERY inconsistent. So, while this drive worked at times, I am not convinced it is the answer.

The US importer of Naim (Sound Organization) has been remarkably patient with me and has tried to be very helpful. I certainly realize that they cannot be asked to support every possibly Naim/NAS drive combo. They have indicated that they have had good results pairing the Naim units with NAS drives from NetGear, Q-NAP and Certon (with the first two running Twonky). They also of course pointed out that I could invest in a UnitiServe which would handle the communication between the ND5 XS and just about any NAS drive - that of course is a $3,500-4,000 solution...I am hoping that someone has dealt with this situation already and has maybe come up with some stable, cost-effective solutions that I could incorporate using most/all of my current hardware. I welcome any thoughts anyone has on this issue.

Mark Grant
08-12-2012, 21:00
I don't have the Naim to try but never had a problem with any synology NAS with any streaming.

http://www.synology.com/index.php?lang=uk

A google search finds this:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/different-nas-different-sound-11263/

The user says he can hear a difference between data streamed from a Synology DS712 and a Synology DS209, even if he is imagining the difference ;) at least it proves that Synology NAS drives work with the Naim as he has tried two different models.

If you need help choosing a model from the Synology range just ask.

hope that helps.

Stratmangler
08-12-2012, 21:09
First of all I will state this - at this point it is in your Naim dealer's best interest to relieve you of your money, so any advice they give will be designed to do just that.
They have become your enemy, are not network engineers, and should be mistrusted.

Your streamer will go to any UPnP device and play files.
It can also work from M3U playlists.
You need to find out how to find UPnP devices on your home network, and then access files stored upon them.

You might be better off getting advice from a Home Entertainment Installer, getting them to set it up for you and show you how to control it all.
Of course they wouldn't do it for free, but I'm pretty certain that a couple of hours of their time would be well below the cost of all the recommended Naim server gear.

Reid Malenfant
08-12-2012, 21:24
Hi Doug, I'm not sure what you are going to think of this, but I'm going to mention it anyway.

I also have an Oppo BD95 & I feed the digital output to a dCS Purcell upsampler & Delius DAC, I'm also very happy with it I might add.

The thing is you don't need a NAS as you have the Oppo ;) I also stream HD music files as well as FLAC etc, but I use the eSATA socket on the back of the BD95 to connect to a HDD in a caddy.

I'm more than happy with the way it sounds, in fact I'm upset that the new Oppo BD105 has no longer got an eSATA socket, which would force me to use a NAS if I wanted to upgrade the player :rolleyes:

Perhaps you might like to try this option, while it's a bit more of a pain to load music to the HDD (you have to physically disconnect it & then load via USB from your PC), it's a damn sight cheaper & there is far less gubbins between the HDD & the player - just a cable :D

dkrause
08-12-2012, 21:44
The thing is, I use the NAS to also back up other computers (in RAID), it is also my iTunes Media folder destination so it is better for me to have it on the network. With that said, I can use my Oppo (which is also hooked to the network) to access a NAS. If I play back in that fashion, I really need to have the TV on to navigate the Oppo GUI. Also, I am then utilizing the Oppo DAC right?...or maybe I could then pass through the digital file to the Naim...I am not sure how the Oppo handles 24/192 files. In any case, since I have the Naim, I would like to use all of its' functionality. The iPad app for the Naim is great and the front panel on the Naim means even without my iPad, I can locate and launch music files.

Reid Malenfant
08-12-2012, 21:59
Well I guess you'd still be using the Naim as a DAC, that'd definately be the case if it's plugged into the output of the Oppo.

Yes, you would need a TV or some kind of display device (preferably HDMI).

I can see where you are coming from, so I'll cease & desist :eyebrows:

I really don't want to have to use a NAS, I prefer to load stuff via my PC & defrag after each album is loaded. That way I get no fragments & no gaps, it's just me being a tad anal I guess :D

Before you ask I do have a second drive with the same stuff loaded... Just in case ;)

Stratmangler
08-12-2012, 22:00
Just had a look at the capabilities of a QNAP NAS http://www.qnap.com/uk/index.php?lang=en-uk&sn=5050&c=2485&sc=2491&t=2512&n=14035 and it can act as a UPnP music server , and it can also handle iTunes.
It should be capable of dealing with both simultaneously, although you might need to ask the question over at QNAP to be certain.

Most other NAS boxes capable of similar processing should also be able to provide UPnP serving.

dkrause
09-12-2012, 18:30
Thanks to everyone that has responded so far...it is amazing to me sometimes how things I think should be easier are so complicated...I have a similar thread running on three other forums: Synology, Naim and Computer Audiophile. In the end, the Synology product line - along with Q-NAP - seems to get a lot of support. In reading further, while both companies seem to be well respected, it appears that the Synology interface may be a little more user friendly. I just want to make sure that if I buy my third NAS in this odyssey that I am on it works well with the Naim. Further, it would be a nice bonus if it actually sounded good...At this point, I think the Synology media server software can handle every music format and the drive can also act as a location for my Time Machine and Windows based backups. I am leaning that way right now...

Stratmangler
09-12-2012, 18:56
Further, it would be a nice bonus if it actually sounded good...

That's an odd statement, akin to saying that the shelving you store your vinyl on makes your records sound better :mental:

dkrause
09-12-2012, 21:28
Is it odd?...from everything I have been reading both in professional reviews and within forums like this one and those for Naim, Computer Audiophile, Synology, etc., the hardware within the NAS along with the software that acts as the interface between your drive and your streamer can/will affect your sound (and the overall stability of the interface). You may be of the "it's all zeros and ones" camp and I am in no position to change your mind but I do believe that hardware can have an impact in many situations....

Stratmangler
10-12-2012, 10:59
If the data stored on the NAS were streamed in real time, and there was no error checking taking place then I might agree with you.

Fortunately the data is not streamed in real time - it is transmitted in packets, and those packets are not necessarily transmitted in exactly the right order.
As long as the packet arrives into the playback device's buffer within a certain time window the data is sorted into the correct order for playback.

If the data arrives in buffer outside of the time window then the result on the playback is catastrophic - the playback stops.

While all this packet data is being transmitted it is also being error checked, and again if an error check cannot be verified the whole thing grinds to a halt.
So when things aren't working properly you know because you get silence when there shouldn't be any.

Of course it's your right to completely ignore common sense and believe what you want with regard to networked music players.
If you want to believe that all the networked bits contribute significantly to sound quality you should be beating on the door of your local Naim dealership down and begging them to rape your wallet or credit card.