View Full Version : 1210's! The jury is out.
Floyddroid
08-12-2012, 20:27
I recently had the opportunity to listened to a fully modded Technics SL1210 in my system and it was really rather good. DD's tend to have that upbeat pace and grit that is sometimes welcome. however, my findings were that i was far more content with my belt driven Notts Analogue TT which has more body and soul. The 1210 is a sexy looking blighter no doubt and very boy racer to a point and it does what it does very well. But i can't help thinking that when i listen to music on my Nott's that is how it should sound. I have used a Nott's Analogue for over 12 years now and they just do what it says on the tin! They play music. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I think the jury is still out on the Technics. Hysterical snake oil methinks, a passing trend? My SL1500 is every bit as good sonically. Just to let you know, i have left the country for a while fearing reprisals. It's just fun guys remember, just fun!:ner:
chris@panteg
08-12-2012, 20:37
The hyperspace is a hell of a nice TT , not surprised you prefer it , I spent an enjoyable afternoon at Kevin Scots , listening to a spacedeck some time ago now but I remember it well !
Enjoy your Hyperspace .
Thing Fish
08-12-2012, 20:42
Steve youv'e upset the applecart there...:lol:
You dare speak against the great poobah and all the disciples...:whippin:
The next few posts will tell you that your ears are the wrong shape and that you have to hear a 1210 in a proper system to hear the sonic benefits...:lol:
:popcorn:
Hi Steve,
LOL! :D
I recently had the opportunity to listened to a fully modded Technics SL1210 in my system...
When you say "fully modded", fully modded how (which modded bits were on it, including the arm and cartridge), and who's Techy was it your NA was being compared to - anyone we know? :)
Marco.
Audio Al
08-12-2012, 20:58
O GOD :stalks:
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Let me know when its safe to come out :sofa:
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From behind the couch, before you all start ;)
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:popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
As an aside, with the amount that some have spent fully modifying a 1210, could the same money be spent modifying ANY TT to get the same sonic standard and it's all about the quality of the mods? Or is it only possible with a 1210?
RobbieGong
08-12-2012, 22:56
Hi Steve,
LOL! :D
When you say "fully modded", fully modded how (which modded bits were on it, including the arm and cartridge), and who's Techy was it your NA was being compared to - anyone we know? :)
Marco.
Come on Steve !!
Reid Malenfant
08-12-2012, 22:59
As an aside, with the amount that some have spent fully modifying a 1210, could the same money be spent modifying ANY TT to get the same sonic standard and it's all about the quality of the mods? Or is it only possible with a 1210?
Very doubtful actually ;) There are millions of 1200 series decks out there, so it's worth certain people devising mods for them as they are more than capable of excellent reproduction.
The same can't really be said of other similar decks, I own an Aiwa AP2600 which will show a stock 1210 it's heels in the quality reproduction race. You try & find stuff to modify it though, you'd need to go totally bespoke, which would cost a fortune :eek:
The only deck I can think of with so many possible upgrades is the LP12, but look at the price of the things :rolleyes:
As an aside, with the amount that some have spent fully modifying a 1210, could the same money be spent modifying ANY TT to get the same sonic standard and it's all about the quality of the mods? Or is it only possible with a 1210?
Course not. Any T/T with the required sonic potential has the capability to benefit from judiciously executed modifications :)
I'd love to hear a good SP10, after being suitably 'tweaked'! And look at the superb mods you can get now for Garrards, Lencos and TD124s!
Marco.
I'd love to hear a good SP10, after being suitably 'tweaked'! And look at the superb mods you can get now for Garrards, Lencos and TD124s!
Marco.
Agreed - and more evidence that it is a great time to be into vinyl these days. :)
My last 1210 wasn't overly modded, but sounded very fine - not as fine as the Sony PS-6750 which replaced it - but very good all the same. I'd definitely say that it was the first of several 1210's I've owned which I could be satisfied with though. I've heard Marco's 1210 and it really is superb; 'well of course it should be, look at what he's done to it/spent on it' I hear you cry. Well fair play to the guy I say - it shows what the deck is capable of when fully unleashed. It also appeals to my anti-bling sense of taste - I cannot abide hifi jewellery.
My own experience of the deck (not going anywhere near Marco's in terms of the amount of modification) has brought me to the conclusion that by all means tweak it here and there - you will lift its performance quite significantly - but unless you're going to spend some fairly serious ££ on it, there will always be other turntables out there which will equal or better it for similar money. The Technics for me scores in its ease of use, its compact, and highly practical design and of course you know it'll always start first turn of the key. :)
It'll never have a photokinetic end-of-play mechanism like my JVC QL-A7 :lol:
Reid Malenfant
09-12-2012, 00:20
It'll never have a photokinetic end-of-play mechanism like my JVC QL-A7 :lol:
Talking of JVCs, I have a QL-Y5F, at least I think that's right :scratch:
Lovely deck, a little searching confirms I was correct :)
XluFoMYrrzM
Not sure about this guys musical taste though :eyebrows:
Thermionic Idler
09-12-2012, 15:16
My two cents...
It seems to me that the SL1200/1210 offers such good potential performance because its base engineering is of a quality that would usually cost the end user a lot more money. Because they were produced in such large numbers and sold by the shedload to budding DJ's in the last couple of decades, the per-unit costs could be kept lower.
Most low volume turntable manufacturers would simply have found it too cost-prohibitive to produce something like that. Same principle with the Garrard 301 and 401. Look at what a 501 costs these days. :eek:
I really love the look of the SL1200 actually, I had a pair in the 90's when I wanted to get into DJ-ing like everyone else. The DJ-ing thing kinda faded but I didn't get over the vinyl addiction! If I'd known at the time what a tricked up 1200 was capable of, I might never have gone down the route I went down. But that was over a decade ago.
Hi Richard,
I've heard Marco's 1210 and it really is superb; 'well of course it should be, look at what he's done to it/spent on it' I hear you cry. Well fair play to the guy I say - it shows what the deck is capable of when fully unleashed. It also appeals to my anti-bling sense of taste - I cannot abide hifi jewellery.
Thanks for your kind comments. I'm not a 'box-swapper' (for whatever genuine and/or justifiable reasons others may have for being so).
I'm the type who likes to get the most out of the kit that I own and keep it for a long time, if not indefinitely, so it makes sense to invest in what I see as being 'the ultimate', without any concern for resale value. That approach, of course, isn't for everyone, but it's right for me - and it works! :)
I completely agree about "hi-fi jewellery"... Rest assured that no such nonsense will ever be actively promoted on AoS, as it's the complete antithesis of what we stand for! :nono:
Where has Steve gone? He makes some critical, but perfectly reasonable remarks about the Techy, yet when justifiably asked to qualify them, seemingly runs for the hills... :scratch:
Marco.
It's Sunday dude, he's probably chillin' with his family or out and about ;)
Floyddroid
09-12-2012, 17:02
New bearing, SME V, New feet of which the name escapes me and an ortofon black. It was my friend Brendan's turntable who despises forums of any nature. As i said, it did sound very good indeed though a tad mechanican compared to my own little cherub.
chris@panteg
09-12-2012, 17:11
Hi Steve , It didn't sound overly dull/opaque or a touch bass heavy did it ? I ask as that's how I would describe mine at the moment and I use an SME 309 .
Hi Steve,
Thanks for coming back with some more info. I always think it's important to qualify these types of observations, as information can often be revealed that helps explain the results obtained.
New bearing, SME V, New feet of which the name escapes me and an ortofon black. It was my friend Brendan's turntable who despises forums of any nature. As i said, it did sound very good indeed though a tad mechanican compared to my own little cherub.
...such as the case here.
It's well-known that modern SME arms aren't a good match for the Techy. Your 'mechanical' comment appears to back this up. Also, which new bearing was used, and was the same arm and cartridge fitted to both T/Ts when the comparison was made? If not, with respect, I don't see how any accurate comparisons could be done, as there are simply too many variables.
*However*, and let me make this crystal clear: none of that matters if you intrinsically feel that you still prefer your Nottingham Analogue to the Techy - ANY Techy. At the end of the day, you like what you like. However, for others reading, it's important to put things into a proper context :)
Marco.
Floyddroid
09-12-2012, 18:18
Hi chaps
My findings with the technics were all positive really. It was a lot faster than mine with a cleaner tighter bass. however, when i listened to my Notts it painted a fuller picture of the music having a deeper front to back sound stage and when listening to strings and brass sounded much sweeter. A big plus with the Technics was the way it presented synth bass sounds and drum kit. It is all down to taste and i much prefered my Notts. I have this day being tinkering with my SL1500. It still has a stock arm as the 1500 doesn't have a cut out arm board. I have been securing surgical jel-pads to the inside of the plinth and fitting some Russ Andrews oak cones. i will let you know my findings when i get chance to finish the job. sorry i didn't get back sooner. sunday and all that! away to the pub now.
Floyddroid
09-12-2012, 18:19
BTW the JVC TT looks tasty!
The one in the video posted by Mark would benefit from a better cartridge though ;)
Enjoy having a few beers, Steve! When you come back, if you could answer this, I'd be much obliged:
Also, which new bearing was used [Mike New, Timestep or Vantage Audio], and was the same arm and cartridge fitted to both T/Ts when the comparison was made?
Churz! :cool:
Could you also confirm if the Techy you heard was still fitted with its standard internal PSU? You didn't mention any PSU upgrade in your previous post. If that's the case, combined with the use of an SME V, it goes a long way to explaining what you heard from said Techy! ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
09-12-2012, 19:57
It's well-known that modern SME arms aren't a good match for the Techy. Your 'mechanical' comment appears to back this up.
Marco.
:no: Your wrong! Mine sounds excellent but thats personally opinion. ;)
Hi Steve , It didn't sound overly dull/opaque or a touch bass heavy did it ? I ask as that's how I would describe mine at the moment and I use an SME 309 .
+1 with a little bass heavy but I have a small listening room so I wonder if its the room and not the deck??
chris@panteg
09-12-2012, 20:13
:no: Your wrong! Mine sounds excellent but thats personally opinion. ;)
+1 with a little bass heavy but I have a small listening room so I wonder if its the room and not the deck??
That would be plausible Andrew , but simply comparing Sgt pepper and revolver on cd and vinyl tells me there is nowt wrong with my system or room , on cd they sound just how I expect them to sound , on vinyl they sound opaque and the bass draws attention to itself , not how George Martin intended I suspect ? Could it be what the SL1210 is sat on ? But it sounds the same through headphones .
:no: Your wrong! Mine sounds excellent but thats personally opinion. ;)
LOL - we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. My feelings about magnesium-made SME arms, especially when used on Techies, are well-known!
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
09-12-2012, 20:35
That would be plausible Andrew , but simply comparing Sgt pepper and revolver on cd and vinyl tells me there is nowt wrong with my system or room , on cd they sound just how I expect them to sound , on vinyl they sound opaque and the bass draws attention to itself , not how George Martin intended I suspect ? Could it be what the SL1210 is sat on ? But it sounds the same through headphones .
Chris, can you explain to me what I should be listening for to try and detect when a record sound opaque? I'd like to see if my deck has this characteristic but dont have a clue what I should listening for:scratch:
LOL - we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. My feelings about magnesium-made SME arms, especially when used on Techies, are well-known!
Marco.
Wondered how long it took before you bit :lolsign: Don't forget we have very similar decks, but paradoxically, markedly different in that my PCB has been recapped, I have a different tonearm board etc, and I got rid of all the 1210 bling, so on my deck the V could be a better match. I don't really care TBH I love my deck :ner:
That's all that matters, matey :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
10-12-2012, 10:17
[QUOTE=REXTON;391598]Chris, can you explain to me what I should be listening for to try and detect when a record sound opaque? I'd like to see if my deck has this characteristic but dont have a clue what I should listening for:scratch:
I would say like a thin veil drawn in front of the speakers , a slightly thickish quality to textures , I am being very critical perhaps , it still sounds good ! I won't make any more negative comments as it's not helping much .
freefallrob
10-12-2012, 11:09
Well I have just returned to a Technics SL1200MK2, totally standard with a 2M BLUE fitted at present. This will be the third 1200 series I've had and this one is going no where!
I must admit it's with much relief that I use this 1200 now, my inner person just says, ahhhhhh.....relax, when I drop the needle.
Such good performance, build and usability for the money.
I'm already thinking about mods:doh:
:)
Wakefield Turntables
10-12-2012, 15:32
[QUOTE=REXTON;391598]Chris, can you explain to me what I should be listening for to try and detect when a record sound opaque? I'd like to see if my deck has this characteristic but dont have a clue what I should listening for:scratch:
I would say like a thin veil drawn in front of the speakers , a slightly thickish quality to textures , I am being very critical perhaps , it still sounds good ! I won't make any more negative comments as it's not helping much .
OK, thanks for that I'll see If I pick up a similar effect tonight when listening.
Enjoy having a few beers, Steve! When you come back, if you could answer this, I'd be much obliged:
Also, which new bearing was used [Mike New, Timestep or Vantage Audio], and was the same arm and cartridge fitted to both T/Ts when the comparison was made?
Churz! :cool:
Could you also confirm if the Techy you heard was still fitted with its standard internal PSU? You didn't mention any PSU upgrade in your previous post. If that's the case, combined with the use of an SME V, it goes a long way to explaining what you heard from said Techy! ;)
Marco.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
10-12-2012, 19:53
Somethings telling me that our esteemed leader is eager for a response :lol:
I hate 'loose ends'.... ;)
Come on, Stevie baby - let's be 'avin ya! :)
Marco.
Very doubtful actually ;) There are millions of 1200 series decks out there, so it's worth certain people devising mods for them as they are more than capable of excellent reproduction.
The same can't really be said of other similar decks, I own an Aiwa AP2600 which will show a stock 1210 it's heels in the quality reproduction race. You try & find stuff to modify it though, you'd need to go totally bespoke, which would cost a fortune :eek:
The only deck I can think of with so many possible upgrades is the LP12, but look at the price of the things :rolleyes:
Very good point...
I suppose the only way around that is DIY and so limited by your own knowledge or lack of.
pure sound
12-12-2012, 19:46
I hate 'loose ends'.... ;)
Come on, Stevie baby - let's be 'avin ya! :)
Marco.
Marco, did you ever post your opinion of the LO7D and how that compared with your Technics? If so, can you put up a link to it?
Hi Guy,
It was like Mastermind, started but not finished.... :eyebrows:
However, there will be a 'Round 2' soon! ;)
Marco.
One thing you've got to love about the SL-1200 is it's relatively set-and-forget nature. No checking for spring bounce or audiophile paranoia necessary. Since I set mine up 18 months ago, I haven't touched or tweaked anything apart from ensuring that it was level when I moved it.
It is extremely consistent and fuss-free, unlike the previous belt-driven tables I've owned where things would degrade or drift all on their own. It sounds pretty bloody good with the mild mods I've applied in my system, and although I'm sure it could be bettered by other more tweaky turntables I am content to treat it like an appliance and just enjoy!.
Cheers,
Alex
freefallrob
13-12-2012, 15:13
I've just bought some new external tonearm wire for mine and some new plugs......oh dear....
I recently had the opportunity to listened to a fully modded Technics SL1210 in my system and it was really rather good. DD's tend to have that upbeat pace and grit that is sometimes welcome. however, my findings were that i was far more content with my belt driven Notts Analogue TT which has more body and soul. The 1210 is a sexy looking blighter no doubt and very boy racer to a point and it does what it does very well. But i can't help thinking that when i listen to music on my Nott's that is how it should sound. I have used a Nott's Analogue for over 12 years now and they just do what it says on the tin! They play music. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I think the jury is still out on the Technics. Hysterical snake oil methinks, a passing trend? My SL1500 is every bit as good sonically. Just to let you know, i have left the country for a while fearing reprisals. It's just fun guys remember, just fun!:ner:
Not quite sure what you mean - you said you "listened" to a SL-1210, this makes no sense without telling which tone arm and which cartridge used. You mention Notts Analogue TT, which arm + cartridge did this have ? We are at a level as; "I once tested a MB C class from 2001, it was very slow compared with my Fiat - MB bad, Fiat very good".
Apart from that, a turntable is not a violin, its a turntable - sound is fundamentally what arm+cartridge picks-up from the tracks, noise comes from the rest. If you prefer the sound mixed with the nostalgic noise added from a belt driven turntable ( wow/flutter included ), well no problem - we all have our taste :)
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