Stylus confusion

[worrasf]

I'm confused :scratch: or more likely stupid:mental:
I bought a Garrott P77 some time ago - seller said the supplied stylus was not the original micro scanner but a conical retip - very honest chap. Anyway, I obtained a brand new shiny stylus from ESC without ever trying the original and was happy. But after getting the Rega Carbon I decided to play around a bit and so fitted the original stylus to the P77 and it tracks better than anything else I've ad save a music maker 3 and with virtually no bias applied. With all others I need bias set to at least 2. I've not got a very powerful magnifier but from what I can see it does look like a conical stylus - I'm just very surprised that it tracks this well. I've ordered a Jico sas 1 for it as the OEM replacements are silly money.
Steve

[DSJR]

Take the stylus to work and see if you can borrow a microscope for a few minutes to have a look..

I think I mentioned that the PN7 stylus is available from EsCo, who made the later UK ones (the shared body is a generic, long standing Japanese one I believe).

The Paratrace, VDH, fine line or Microscanner diamonds have easily observable profiles. I don't know how different the SAS profile is, but apparently it's better with Shures than any Shure MR stylus ever was :)

[worrasf]

Take the stylus to work and see if you can borrow a microscope for a few minutes to have a look..

I think I mentioned that the PN7 stylus is available from EsCo, who made the later UK ones (the shared body is a generic, long standing Japanese one I believe).

The Paratrace, VDH, fine line or Microscanner diamonds have easily observable profiles. I don't know how different the SAS profile is, but apparently it's better with Shures than any Shure MR stylus ever was :)

There's shure (sic) to be a spare one in the path lab ;)
Yes my ESC is a shiny new PN7 - exact same body apart from the colour. There's no doubt the "conical" stylus sounds and tracks better.

I read good reports about the Jico sas in A&R's and Garrott Optims (same body) so thought I'd take a punt and see - wont be here until after Christmas as they are made to order. They do look odd in the A&R body as the stylus mount is "half height"
Steve

[worrasf]

The plot thickens :scratch:
So I remembered the lad had a microscope and took a gander at the 2 styli.
The Garrott is definitely conical - in very good nick and the PN7 is elliptical. BUT the cantilevers are different - the Garrott is a 1 piece item whereas the PN7 is 2 piece with the cantilever holding the stylus is sleeved into another tube. I can only assume it is the difference in cantilever construction that allows the "inferior" stylus tip to track better. After several setups it definitely does - 1.7g and tracking is perfect to band 3 - I couldn't get the PN7 to track beyond band 2 even at 2.2 g ( max foe A&R P77) and it needed max bias :eyebrows:
I wonder if I might be better getting the original Garrott retipped to keep the OEM cantilever?
Steve

[the engine]

I thought a conical tip WAS an eliptical ???

[worrasf]

I thought a conical tip WAS an eliptical ???

Not necessarily ;)
See http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22894

Confused? :doh:

From the Audio Technica diagram my Garrott is conical and the PN7 is linear contact - The Jico SAS I've orederd looks interesting

Steve

[walpurgis]

I thought a conical tip WAS an eliptical ???

A conical tip is simply a round cone shape. This is the basic profile, then you have elipticals and line contact and compound radii profiles. use the link below, there are some interesting photos.

http://www.micrographia.com/projec/projapps/viny/viny0300.htm

Just found this too.

http://i45.tinypic.com/15x1f12.jpg

Hope it clarifies things.

[Spur07]

Not necessarily ;)
See http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22894

Confused? :doh:

From the Audio Technica diagram my Garrott is conical and the PN7 is linear contact - The Jico SAS I've orederd looks interesting

Steve

Steve, I've also just ordered a Jico SAS 1 to try on a A&R 77. I Hope it arrives before christmas.

I thought conical and elliptical were different

Paul

[worrasf]

Steve, I've also just ordered a Jico SAS 1 to try on a A&R 77. I Hope it arrives before christmas.


Paul

I guess yours will arrive before mine as they gave me a despatch date of 18 December. Let us know what you think of it.

Steve

[Spur07]

I guess yours will arrive before mine as they gave me a despatch date of 18 December. Let us know what you think of it.

Steve

I may well be in the same boat as you then steve, after christmas it is.

I'd be interested in your thoughts. I've only got a Ortofon OM5E to compare it to. Been chatting to the chap on LH who originally recommended the combo and he prefers it to his Benz Wood L2.

[worrasf]

Well i'm not sure how the A&R and Garrott bodies compare -I hear they are the same but then also hear that the Dynamic Coil and windings etc in the Garrott is different :scratch:

Currently I think that it is the most enjoyable cart I have had second to the Decca Blue. I think The Decca is more dynamic and immediate but it can sometimes be a bit "in your face" whereas the Garrott even with the "so called" naff conical stylus has pretty much the same detail but a more relaxed presentation. While I have clearly not heard all that ortofon have to offer I was very underwhelmed (bored) by the Rohman I bought and while I was deciding in the Dyno I cam across user reports on the 2M black that also described it as boring - very faithful to the music but dull - I stress I have not heard one.
Not sire if that helps

Steve