Dissapointed :-(

[Audio Al]

Hi

I thought I would be happy :)

but

I am not :(

Thought I would upgrade my Marantz Amp to something more up market so purchased these 2 items

Yamaha CX 2 pre amp
and a
Yamaha MX 2 Power amp

Both described as " Natural Sound "

Well my reason for being disappointed is the sound

Now I like some Bass but this is ridiculous :scratch::scratch:

Am I doing something wrong ?

To get it to sound acceptable I have to set the bass to - as far as it will go and the treble + as far as it will go :eek:

If I push in the pure direct button ( what ever that means ) the bricks in the house start to move :eek:

Everything else in the system is the same , TT ,cables ,speakers, stands
I cant work out whats going on but its anything but natural sound :(

I have given it a week to see if its me but the bass is just mind blowing

any ideas what it could be ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2149.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2150.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2151.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2153.jpg
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I now have the loudness on flat
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2154.jpg
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2155.jpg
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defeat ??
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/bigboobs/IMG_2157.jpg

This subsonic button does not seem to have much affect :scratch:

[Firebottle]

Al do you think the 'defeat' marking is just another way of saying zero?

Have you tried pulling on the knobs in case there is a defeat switch built into the control?

I guess you've realised that the flat setting of the loudness control is going to give you the best chance at a normal sound.

Just an off field suggestion: is the phono input for an MC or perhaps a crystal/ceramic cart?

:cool: Alan

[hifi_dave]

Loudness should be set to 'flat' and the bass and treble to 'defeat'. You can also switch the 'direct' function on.

'Subsonic' filters out very low frequencies and usually works only on the phono input to remove the rumble from warped records. So you won't hear it.

[HoraceW]

Had one of these and very nice phono section. Are you using the phone input? If so check the position of the mc/mm switch on the rear panel?

Hugh

[Martinh]

Have you tried any of the line level inputs?

[DSJR]

You haven't got a fixed coil (higher output) cartridge into the MC input have you? Your description is often what happens.... I only suggest this as the phono input is selected in your pics.

[UV101]

what are you using as a source? Is it just TT?

Is it the same on all sources?

I would say you want it set as follows

loudness - flat
Bass - defeat
treble - defeat
Subsonic - off

The Pure direct on should bypass all of these controls in any case.

Try with headphones as this will eliminate the power amp.

Try a difference source into the line level inputs (CD, Tape tuner)
Even the output of a phone will give an indication. You can turn the volume down on the phone and connect directly to the power amp to see how that is behaving.

Try disconnecting 1 channel at a time between the pre and power in case its only 1 channel giving the issue.

its really a case of narrowing the problem domain down to the offending item!!

Whatever, you need to post exactly what you have connected to where and how. If its just a TT as already suggested, is the phono stage set correctly for the cartridge type?

[Reid Malenfant]

Actually I think there might be something arse about face here :eyebrows:

Why is there a -40dB setting for the loudness control?

While you chaps reckon it should be set on 'flat', I reckon it should be precisely the opposite ;)

Loudness boosts the bass, so why have a -40dB setting? I reckon it's more to do with where the loudness control cuts out in relation to the volume control position. A lot of Japanese amps had an extra connection on the volume control so that as it approached & went past this extra connection to the carbon track, the loudness would be reduced or cut off.

I think that control sets where the loudness cuts off, if it's set to flat then it may well introduce the loudness contour right up to full volume! But set to -40dB it may well cut out at lower volume..

Think about it..

I could be wrong, but I guess we'll see :cool:

[The Grand Wazoo]

From a Yamaha CRxxxx receiver manual:


This boosts the extreme low and high frequencies to compensate for our ears' reduced sensitivity to these frequencies at low volumes.

Set it to the FLAT position while the VOLUME control is set to your normal maximum listening level.

Turning it counter-clockwise will reduce the volume while retaining the natural balance between low and high frequencies.

[Reid Malenfant]

Hmmm, I have no idea what the problem is then :scratch:

[HoraceW]

With these Yamaha pre amps you should first set the loudness control to flat then turn up the volume to the loudest you would normally use then adjust the loudness control to set the overall level of volume you are comfortable with.

Hugh

[Reid Malenfant]

With these Yamaha pre amps you should first set the loudness control to flat then turn up the volume to the loudest you would normally use then adjust the loudness control to set the overall level of volume you are comfortable with.

Hugh
Damn foreigners, why do they have to make things so confusing :rfl:

Give me amplification with no tone controls & I'm happy :D

[Roy S]

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/P1030037.jpg

So that's what that does, I'd wondered. Thanks Mark & Chris.

[Reid Malenfant]

Don't thank me, I got it backwards :doh:

I used to have a Yamaha CA610, while it did have a loudness control, it was just an on & off switch - so much easier ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, if you must have a loudness control, this is the way to do it because all the others are only good for one particular volume setting. This way, it works properly at all levels.

[Roy S]

My Sony AV Amp has a 'Night Mode', was hoping it would be some kind of cloaking device...

[Audio Al]

Had one of these and very nice phono section. Are you using the phone input? If so check the position of the mc/mm switch on the rear panel?

Hugh

Hugh

YOU ARE A STAR :)

Numpty Allen ( ME ) :doh: did not notice the MM/MC button on the back , Just dragged the rack out , found the button and yes it was on MC and I have a MM :doh: In my defense I will say the button is tiny ( about as big as a match head ) and secondly when I purchased the 2 items no owners manuals were given , Looks like I will need to see if I can download them from somewhere

Its now OFFICIAL

ITS sounding great :band:

Have my favorite LP on at the moment sounding good

I am now Happy:D


Thanks to everyone on AOS for your combined thoughts , Once again the combined knowledge of members comes up trumps
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[UV101]

couple of new acronyms for the page you linked to in another post

ffs and lmao

nice one :D glad its sorted!!

[The Grand Wazoo]

Excellent! Glad you sorted it out.

Al (and anyone else who has a Yamaha unit with one of these continuous loudness controls) and doesn't know how to use it: I've copied all of the relevant text out of a manual so that you can properly understand how it works should you want to use it.

Bear in mind, it's purpose is to maintain the frequency balance that you've selected when you listen at low levels - if you use the tone controls at all, then it will maintain the balance of the various frequency bands relative to each other at whatever settings you have selected. Some Yamaha units like my big receiver had tone controls that covered bass, treble and presence band.

Anyway, here's what it says, hope you find it useful:
(Sorry it repeats itself a little because it was taken from three separate parts of a manual).



Continuous Loudness Compensation
This Yamaha ‘special’ enables full compensation for your ears reduced sensitivity to bass and treble frequencies at low listening levels, whatever your normal maximum listening level.

This boosts the extreme low and high frequencies to compensate for our ears’ reduced sensitivity to these frequencies at low volumes. Set it to the FLAT position while the VOLUME control is set to your highest normal listening level. Turning it counter-clockwise will reduce the volume but retain the natural balance between low and high frequencies.

This unit is unusual in providing a separate volume control for continuous loudness compensation. Most receivers and amplifiers feature a simple loudness switch designed to compensate for the reduced sensitivities of our ears to high and low frequencies at low listening levels. However, this unit offers more than a certain fixed degree of compensation at any given volume level, enabling a degree of loudness compensation which can be matched to the listening situation and listening level of the user.

First turn the LOUDNESS control fully clockwise t othe FLAT position, then adjust the main volume control to the maximum listening level you will normally be using. Make any further adjustments to the tone controls at the maximum level. Then use the LOUDNESS control, rather than the main VOLUME control itself to reduce the listening level when necessary. The same tonal balance will be preserved at the lower levels.

[jandl100]

Hmmm -- I bet you feel like a complete twat now, Al. :lol:

I've had quite a few Yamaha power amps - I'm a big fan of them. Taut, controlled, nicely detailed and transparent -- :thumbsup:

[Audio Al]

Hmmm -- I bet you feel like a complete twat now, Al.

OK OK don't rub it in :D

But Yes I do :rolleyes:

My previous amps have not had MM/MC switch over so I just plugged it in and switched it on :doh:

[Audio Al]

Excellent! Glad you sorted it out.

Al (and anyone else who has a Yamaha unit with one of these continuous loudness controls) and doesn't know how to use it: I've copied all of the relevant text out of a manual so that you can properly understand how it works should you want to use it.

Bear in mind, it's purpose is to maintain the frequency balance that you've selected when you listen at low levels - if you use the tone controls at all, then it will maintain the balance of the various frequency bands relative to each other at whatever settings you have selected. Some Yamaha units like my big receiver had tone controls that covered bass, treble and presence band.

Anyway, here's what it says, hope you find it useful:
(Sorry it repeats itself a little because it was taken from three separate parts of a manual).



Continuous Loudness Compensation
This Yamaha ‘special’ enables full compensation for your ears reduced sensitivity to bass and treble frequencies at low listening levels, whatever your normal maximum listening level.

This boosts the extreme low and high frequencies to compensate for our ears’ reduced sensitivity to these frequencies at low volumes. Set it to the FLAT position while the VOLUME control is set to your highest normal listening level. Turning it counter-clockwise will reduce the volume but retain the natural balance between low and high frequencies.

This unit is unusual in providing a separate volume control for continuous loudness compensation. Most receivers and amplifiers feature a simple loudness switch designed to compensate for the reduced sensitivities of our ears to high and low frequencies at low listening levels. However, this unit offers more than a certain fixed degree of compensation at any given volume level, enabling a degree of loudness compensation which can be matched to the listening situation and listening level of the user.

First turn the LOUDNESS control fully clockwise t othe FLAT position, then adjust the main volume control to the maximum listening level you will normally be using. Make any further adjustments to the tone controls at the maximum level. Then use the LOUDNESS control, rather than the main VOLUME control itself to reduce the listening level when necessary. The same tonal balance will be preserved at the lower levels.


Thanks Chris

Will give it a go later ;)

[DSJR]

Glad I was right :)

SOME Yamaha amps are really good, but my Gawd, there was some dross too, and the CA*10 and *20 series were grey and bland compared to the rather nice predecessors they made. Star for me, and often overlooked was the CR800 receiver. Good tuner and lovely amp yet costing far less than the switch laden CR1000 which I really liked at the time :)

[Floyddroid]

I think maybe they might just be shite mate?