View Full Version : Is this TT that special ?
Audio Al
02-12-2012, 16:32
Just found this on e---
How much :stalks:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SP10-MkIII-mk3-Turntable-with-Power-Supply-/321034150082?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item4abf2060c2
Are they really worth that kind of money ?
Rare Bird
02-12-2012, 16:34
Do you want my honest opinion? :D
Audio Al
02-12-2012, 16:36
Do you want my honest opinion? :D
Yes :D
sq225917
02-12-2012, 16:48
Honestly.
You have to love a trier, it's not even 240v, never mind the fact is 4x what it should cost.
Dingdong
02-12-2012, 16:49
It is supposedly quite good. They are quite rare as well. You don't see them up for sale that often.
Is it worth that money? Not to me, but quite possibly to someone else.
I'll be sticking with my MK2 for less than a tenth of the price.
The Grand Wazoo
02-12-2012, 17:02
It's not worth 1/2 that much, even if he throws in the arm and plinth he's using with it.
think he may have messed up his decimal places:concertina:
It is supposedly quite good. They are quite rare as well. You don't see them up for sale that often.
Is it worth that money? Not to me, but quite possibly to someone else.
I'll be sticking with my MK2 for less than a tenth of the price.
x2- It is the holy grail of the SP Series, tis a trifle expensive!:)
prestonchipfryer
02-12-2012, 18:07
No!
Mmmm... It's a difficult one. MK3s are rather rare, and considerably better than MK2s, which themselves aren't exactly shabby!
Yes, the price is a little OTT, however, would anyone care to bet that, when in a plinth, with a decent arm and cartridge fitted (the latter needn't be super expensive), it wouldn't be as good as or better than the 15, 20 or £30k high-end 'audiophile' T/Ts, regularly reviewed in HFN or Hi-Fi+?
I wouldn't! ;)
My biggest bugbear about the ad? It's a fooking STEP DOWN transformer, ya muppet - a step-UP transformer is something entirely different!!!! :doh:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
02-12-2012, 20:11
It is not worth the money.
It is not worth the money.
How much have you spent on your 1210, daftee? ;)
Marco.
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, chaps, but I think it's pertinent. Dave, how much do you think an SP10 MK3 would cost, if it were still made today? How much did it cost when it was new, and then translate that into today's money....
Is an Inspire Monarch (at around £6k) that much better value, even though it comes with a plinth (but no arm)? ;)
Look at how much a fully 'tricked-out' LP12 costs these days - and that SP10 would BURY it!!
Marco.
Audioman
02-12-2012, 20:58
Sorry to play devil's advocate here, chaps, but I think it's pertinent... Dave, how much do you think an SP10 MK3 would cost, if it were still made today?
Is an Inspire Monarch (at around £6k) that much better value, even though it comes with a plinth? ;)
Look at how much a fully tricked-out LP12 costs these days, and that SP10 would BURY it!!
Marco.
Irrelevant Marco. The going price for good examples of Mk II is normaly £1500 - £3000. Optimistic asking price I think? I never regarded Ivor's pricing scheme a barometer for anything. Just realised it's a mkIII so rarity value and all that.
chris@panteg
02-12-2012, 21:07
The mk3 is so rare in the UK , I think someone will buy it , the problem is the LO7D is a little easier to come by , well only slightly ? If I was a wealthy man I'd certainly buy it .
Irrelevant Marco. The going price for good examples of Mk II is normaly £1500 - £3000. Optimistic asking price I think? I never regarded Ivor's pricing scheme a barometer for anything. Just realised it's a mkIII so rarity value and all that.
Indeed, Paul, and of course that's an important factor.
However, my examples aren't irrelevant. At the end of the day, a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of what the 'going rate' is - and that works BOTH ways. I judge buying audio equipment on what I consider its sonic potential is, in terms of SPPV, based on its marketplace competitors, some of which I've quoted. Therefore, the general going rate (for me) is largely irrelevant, especially when if I like something enough I rarely sell it on.
I can tell you quite categorically, that if this item had come up for sale before I'd invested in heavily modifying a 1210, I'd have very seriously considered buying it, given that to date, I've spent around 70% of the asking price (excluding my current tonearm and cartridge) on mods for my 1210, and it doesn't have anything like the investment value of an SP10 MK3! ;)
My view on this is that he should have advertised it as an auction, with a starting price of around £3k, which would've piqued more interest, and then let the serious buyers at the end of the auction, arrive somewhere not too far off his 'Buy it Now' asking price.
Marco.
To be quite honest with you Marco, I think if he'd started it at 99p he probably would have made close to his asking price. It's not worth that much to me personally but then my circumstances dictate my choices.
Wakefield Turntables
02-12-2012, 22:37
How much have you spent on your 1210, daftee? ;)
Marco.
Less than the asking price of that deck. :D
Aye, but not by much! :eyebrows:
Marco.
To be quite honest with you Marco, I think if he'd started it at 99p he probably would have made close to his asking price.
Perhaps, but it'd be a somewhat risky strategy! ;)
Marco.
Thermionic Idler
03-12-2012, 00:03
The thing that would worry me about forking out that kind of money for something like that, is the complicated electronics underneath. What happens if some IC chip made of unobtanium suddenly goes pop and you end up with a dead turntable that you can't use and can't fix? What would your investment be worth then?
One thing I do find reassuring about my Garrard is the fact that it has all the electrical complexity of a tea kettle.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 11:18
The thing that would worry me about forking out that kind of money for something like that, is the complicated electronics underneath. What happens if some IC chip made of unobtanium suddenly goes pop and you end up with a dead turntable that you can't use and can't fix? What would your investment be worth then?
Precisley, part of the reason i would'nt touch a DD with a barge pole..
Your right, i can certainly sleep well at night knowing my TT has a motor (With no accompanying electronics apart from an on/off switch) that will last me out combined with all mechanical working. :thumbsup:
Same with phonostages & such with IC's nay way
Dingdong
03-12-2012, 11:33
The thing that would worry me about forking out that kind of money for something like that, is the complicated electronics underneath. What happens if some IC chip made of unobtanium suddenly goes pop and you end up with a dead turntable that you can't use and can't fix? What would your investment be worth then?
One thing I do find reassuring about my Garrard is the fact that it has all the electrical complexity of a tea kettle.
From what I know it doesn't have chips. Just a bunch of transistors and stuff. All replaceable with modern equivalents. I'd want to have the bearing checked before I dropped that sort of money on an old tt though.
It has a better platter than the MK2 and a better psu/drive. Finances dictate that I stick with my Mk2, but it would be nice to have a listen and compare.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 11:45
Last time i looked it was swarming in IC's
Precisley, part of the reason i would'nt touch a DD with a barge pole..
That may be a concern with some vintage D/Ds, dude, but not with a 1200 or 1210, as there are zillions of spare parts available, and plenty of folks who know how to fit them ;)
Vantage Audio are also experts with SP10s. I've not known of one yet that Richard couldn't fix :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 11:54
Do you honestly want the inconvenience of a possible breakdown?
Sorry but ive finally came to a decision with this deck choice thru virtually 100% Guaranteed lifelong reliability, absolutly no possibility of component aging or failing cos their ant any :D
StanleyB
03-12-2012, 11:59
Price aside, the fact that you have to use a stepping transformer is bad news. I have had loads of problems with those things. They can be noisy (hum induced by the voltage converting process) and kill dynamics.
Do you honestly want the inconvenience of a possible breakdown?
Lol - you should be well used to that with some of the old tat you buy - that's if it arrives unbroken in the first place!! :D ;)
Marco.
Price aside, the fact that you have to use a stepping transformer is bad news. I have had loads of problems with those things. They can be noisy (hum induced by the voltage converting process) and kill dynamics.
That's a valid point, Stan, as I've experienced the same thing myself when using imported Chinese valve amps, and would ultimately be what would put me off buying said SP10 :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
03-12-2012, 12:07
That may be a concern with some vintage D/Ds, dude, but not with a 1200 or 1210, as there are zillions of spare parts available, and plenty of folks who know how to fit them ;)
Vantage Audio are also experts with SP10s. I've not known of one yet that Richard couldn't fix :)
Marco.
I asked him about failing IC's last year , he told me in over 20 years of restoring and repairing DD turntables , the only one he worked on with a failed IC was a Micro Seiki .
One of his biggest problems when fixing DD's , is very often bearing damage or coil damage from misuse ? For example on the LO7D ,with the top platter removed , you must press down on the sub platter while you turn it ! If not you will damaged the coil , and this is not so easy to fix , and yes it does happen , Richard tells me .
But IC's failing is extremely rare but difficult or almost impossible to replace if they do .
This concerns the Mk2 rather than the Mk3, but yes, the ICs can fail if you're cruel to them, and no, original replacements are not available, but Nick's found a way of replacing them with commonly available parts:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3647&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
sq225917
03-12-2012, 13:04
If you price it up against modern alternatives, then yeh, maybe 6k isn't so stupid, but it's not new, its old, it has been shipped around the world (based on the 110v) and it might or might not have the platter clamp- a whole world of potential issues may exist.
No doubt it is just dying for someone to wind it a proper 240v mains transformer for inside the PSU, that's what i'd do.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 13:08
Lol - you should be well used to that with some of the old tat you buy ;)
Your so wrong, but since i see a little winkie i know you only kiddin loike :)
Lol - it was tongue-in-cheek, dude, but you've told me yourself about some of the problems you've had with your vintage stuff arriving broken, or not as described by the seller, or even if that's not the case, stuff not working when you try to use it.....
So what's the difference with you taking chances buying the vintage kit you like and someone else taking a chance on buying a vintage direct-drive T/T? Both are risky purchases in their own way :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 14:28
So what's the difference with you taking chances buying the vintage kit you like and someone else taking a chance on buying a vintage direct-drive T/T? Both are risky purchases in their own way :)
The amplifiers i might buy now are revisited in that ive had them before, they are from an era where was nothing like IC's or regulators. If im being totally honest i'm not a transistor fan but in most cases an obsolete Transistor can easily be replaced with something else, i would dearly love to use valves but i find that drops me back in possible unreliabiliy avenue..
However the subjuct in matter is turntables, yours has every chance of not working next time you switch it on, i like to think there is zero chance of that happening hence i'm not left without my deck.. if i get a failure within the amp i have a back up which is every bit as good as the one im using,cos it's the same :D.. i don't with a turntable..
I hear ya, dude, although what about that Philips T/T you bought? I believe that ended up being an ornament, even before you had a chance to switch it on... ;)
However the subjuct in matter is turntables, yours has every chance of not working next time you switch it on...
Apart from when I've taken my T/T somewhere, it's been switched on 24/7, since I bought it in 2008 (it stays on constantly, even when not in use), with no problems so far, and I don't foresee any either.
However, nothing is bought entirely without risk, including the vintage gear you like, or anything else for that matter :)
Marco.
macvisual
03-12-2012, 15:41
Nice tt ok, but utterly utterly bonkers asking price, out by around £5,500 easily!
The exact same hi--fi dealer recently advertised a Sony TA-N1 power amp for ridiculous money, something like £8,500, whenever I seen a different hi--fi dealer sell one of these last year for no more than £2,500 ish. Rip off!
Absolute crazy stupid prices he asks....!!!!!!!!
pure sound
03-12-2012, 16:48
Mk3's have sold for £4-5K so while high it isn't completely daft. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if someone took it at that price.
In a nice plinth with the FR66fx currently on ebay it'd take some beating at pretty much any price.
My thoughts exactly! :)
Marco.
Rare Bird
03-12-2012, 18:58
I hear ya, dude, although what about that Philips T/T you bought? I believe that ended up being an ornament, even before you had a chance to switch it on... ;)
It was nothing to do with the design or reliability, the motor got damaged somehow, motors just don't fall to pieces.
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