View Full Version : Croft pre-amps pecking order
Afternoon chaps, after being exposed to AudioAl's Micro Basic and relly liking the phono stage (and the line stage for that matter), l may well pull the trigger on one or its bigger brother, is the Micro worth the £300 extra over the Basic?
Oops, nearly forgot can they be upgraded to the next model up at a later date? Cheers
Relly, sorry that should be really- damn hangover.:cool:
The Micro Basic is one on its own and to my knowledge, cannot be upgraded - by Glenn anyway. The 25 is much cleaner sounding on all inputs and it's well worth the extra if you can afford it straight off. I understand the Micro 25 can be taken to all manner of custom levels depending on budget and requirements, Glenn just trying to keep it simple with the 25R and 25RS "commercial" models.....
The Micro Basic is one on its own and to my knowledge, cannot be upgraded - by Glenn anyway. The 25 is much cleaner sounding on all inputs and it's well worth the extra if you can afford it straight off. I understand the Micro 25 can be taken to all manner of custom levels depending on budget and requirements, Glenn just trying to keep it simple with the 25R and 25RS "commercial" models.....
Thanks for the reply Dave, any one else care to comment?:)
hifi_dave
18-11-2012, 19:04
Croft amps get better as you pay more - which is what you would expect but not always the case.
The Micro Basic can't be upgraded but the others can. All pre's are available without built-in MM phono stage.
Shameless plug - your local dealer has the complete Croft range on demo, so you can hear for yourself.
I bought a micro basic on Dave DSJR;s reccomendation over 3 years ago now. Still enjoying it. As you heard the phono stage is a belter, really does vinyl justice. The line stage is maybe a little crude, but not in a bad way. I was in Walrus Systems a while back they had one on test before they shipped it out. I asked the gadgee if they sold many. 'Loads' was the reply. \\\\\Graham Northwest of this parish also has one. Heard it through his Quad esl 57 that take no prisoners - difficult to imagine how it could be bettered. I've not heard the fancier ones, though.
The "fancier" ones just sound "a little bit" more refined and the soundstage is subtly widened and deepened. The differences are not hugely obvious, but they creep up on you unawares and help you to relax deeper/dance around more into the music being played :lol:
By the way, I'm still waiting for my commission from hifi dave for recommending this stuff all the time :( Oh, I remember, I don't get any :lol: and recommend it because I love it and own it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:
By the way, I'm still waiting for my commission from hifi dave for recommending this stuff all the time :( Oh, I remember, I don't get any :lol: and recommend it because I love it and own it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bollocks! You go to sleep every night on top of a huge pile of money surrounded by many beautiful women. So does HF Dave. We all know the truth...
Actually I didn't get it off HF Dave - I was new to AoS and didn't realise that he was a Croft dealer. You forgot to mention it! Some shill you turned out to be. HF Dave I hope you are reading this. Sack him ;)
I bought a micro basic on Dave DSJR;s reccomendation over 3 years ago now. Still enjoying it. As you heard the phono stage is a belter, really does vinyl justice. The line stage is maybe a little crude, but not in a bad way. I was in Walrus Systems a while back they had one on test before they shipped it out. I asked the gadgee if they sold many. 'Loads' was the reply. \\\\\Graham Northwest of this parish also has one. Heard it through his Quad esl 57 that take no prisoners - difficult to imagine how it could be bettered. I've not heard the fancier ones, though.
Very smooth martin the top end models;)
jon
The "fancier" ones just sound "a little bit" more refined and the soundstage is subtly widened and deepened. The differences are not hugely obvious, but they creep up on you unawares and help you to relax deeper/dance around more into the music being played :lol:
By the way, I'm still waiting for my commission from hifi dave for recommending this stuff all the time :( Oh, I remember, I don't get any :lol: and recommend it because I love it and own it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell dave..:eek: have you got a hidden camera in house:D
jon
Very smooth martin the top end models;)
jon
WEll the micro basic is super-smooth sounding so i really can't imagine. If it could be improved I guess I would like the soundstage back a little further. The micro basic is maybe just a little bit too forward in the midrange to be totally acurate to recordings, I think. Vocals or featured instruments are just a bit too 'big' if you know what I mean. A minor issue really given it was £350 new.
kininigin
18-11-2012, 21:15
I just wrote a fairly long post about the Micro 25 Basic and the Micro 25,but i was automaticaly logged out and when i tried to log back in,i lost the lot :steam: :doh: :lol:
So here is a summary,get the Micro 25.
I may be selling mine.
Those two statments are un-related :ner:
kininigin
18-11-2012, 21:18
The "fancier" ones just sound "a little bit" more refined and the soundstage is subtly widened and deepened. The differences are not hugely obvious, but they creep up on you unawares and help you to relax deeper/dance around more into the music being played :lol:
I must admit i didn't find that! When i went from the basic to the next one up,there was an immediately noticable difference.The basic sounding more obviously 'valvey' imo.
WEll the micro basic is super-smooth sounding so i really can't imagine. If it could be improved I guess I would like the soundstage back a little further. The micro basic is maybe just a little bit too forward in the midrange to be totally acurate to recordings, I think. Vocals or featured instruments are just a bit too 'big' if you know what I mean. A minor issue really given it was £350 new.
Do you think it might be time for a upgrade martin?:eyebrows:
jon
I just wrote a fairly long post about the Micro 25 Basic and the Micro 25,but i was automaticaly logged out and when i tried to log back in i lost the lot :steam: :doh: :lol:
So here is a summary,get the Micro 25.
I may be selling mine.
Those two statments are un-related :ner:
Try again darren;)looking forward to the post:eyebrows:
jon
I must admit i didn't find that! When i went from the basic to the next one up,there was an immediately noticable difference.The basic sounding more obviously 'valvey' imo.
Mmm, that is interesting Darren, which model do you think was more " musical" if you like, the thing l liked about the Basic was that it sounded very warm, musical, with great tonal colouring.
kininigin
18-11-2012, 22:03
Try again darren;)looking forward to the post:eyebrows:
jon
I really can not be arsed right now to be honest,i'll try a little bit though jon :)
Mmm, that is interesting Darren, which model do you think was more " musical" if you like, the thing l liked about the Basic was that it sounded very warm, musical, with great tonal colouring.
It's not a question of one being more 'musical' than the other imo and this will depend on what the term musical means to you of course.To me musical just means the ability for equipment to not draw attention to itself and to draw you in,which both the models do imo.The Micro 25 less so(in terms of drawing attention to its self),so i guess you could say it's more musical if you like.
When i heard the Micro 25 for the first time,i thought to myself it doesn't sound like a valve amp when compared to the Basic.Over time and especially when i got my paradigm speakers i realised that it was more accurate if you like,being more refined and less coloured or less 'warm' i guess you could say.
Sorry,i'm not very good at describing what i hear,but to me the Micro 25 has all the qualitys of the basic but to me,is far more accurate in the way it delivers it.
Do you think it might be time for a upgrade martin?:eyebrows:
jon
I have considered going further up the chain, yes. It would be my next stop after I aquire a better cartridge, which is pending :eyebrows:
I must admit i didn't find that! When i went from the basic to the next one up,there was an immediately noticable difference.The basic sounding more obviously 'valvey' imo.
I was trying hard to be diplomatic, since the Micro Basic is so good I didn't want to do it down compared to the others, if you see where I am on this.
kininigin
20-11-2012, 18:21
I was trying hard to be diplomatic, since the Micro Basic is so good I didn't want to do it down compared to the others, if you see where I am on this.
No worries david,i like the 'blundering in,in my size 9's' technique :D
You are right though,the basic is very good and i wouldn't hesitate in recommending it to anyone!
Thanks for the replies so far chaps, one thing that struck me with the Basic was the tonal colouring, which was l thought painted in bold vivid colours (me likey), so is the 25 as bold in this department ( l am guessing it will be a little more tighter in this department)?:)
hifi_dave
20-11-2012, 21:00
I've never had anyone with the money in their wallet, buy a Basic in preference to a 25.
You won't, simply because Croft are one of the few brands whose products pricing directly reflects the sonic hierarchy, so one can be guaranteed that the most expensive Croft amp is (by default) the best one, which in these days with high-end audio, is a rarity! :)
Glenn just doesn't do pointless frippery. Everything featured on Croft amps must have a practical or sonic purpose.
Marco.
hifi_dave
20-11-2012, 21:20
You won't, simply because Croft are one of the few brands whose products pricing directly reflects the sonic hierarchy, so one can be guaranteed that the most expensive Croft amp is (by default) the best one, which in these days with high-end audio, is a rarity! :)
Marco.
Exactly..:carrot:
The closest thing to "frippery" in Glenn's world is the brown tape on the carton.
Hehehe... Aye, and even that is pushing the boat out!
Marco.
hifi_dave
20-11-2012, 21:27
When I first started selling Glenn's amps, back in the early 80's, he used to deliver twice a week with no packaging except for a bin bag. We were grateful for that then. The latest packaging is sheer indulgence.:rolleyes:
:lolsign:
I admire his recycling principles!
Joking aside, the 'no frills' thing is one of the aspects of Croft equipment I respect and enjoy most, as it guarantees the user the highest SPPV. I just wish there were more audio companies like it.
Marco.
:lolsign:
I admire his recycling principles!
Joking aside, the 'no frills' thing is one of the aspects of Croft equipment I respect and enjoy most, as it guarantees the user the highest SPPV. I just wish there were more audio companies like it.
Marco.
I think it's known I'm a fan of GC gear and certainly echo this, nothing wrong at all with a beautifully crafted box but bear in mind this contributes to the cost. I love the current utility Croft Series boxes and given the performance very much feel that's where my money is going.
It's interesting that the EAR pre comes in two finishes, and the pricier one is to die for in the looks department, but again, you're paying. Fair play if you've got the cash, no negativity here.
I've been lucky enough to own the 25 pre and had it upgraded by GC to the 25R, the 25 was/is a great piece of kit, the R is indeed better in all areas. Would love to hear the Basic in my system for interest, can't help thinking it's astonishing value.
My core system is the 25R pre and & 7 Power, but my the pre loves having a Leak 20 or Radford plugged in.
It was this very forum that turned me on to GC Gear, wasn't on my radar up 'till then.
It's a great game this !
EAR today is priced for the far eastern market and so looks silly in the UK, which appears to have been deliberately abandoned since this market can be so fickle.
There's a Series 25 with extra valves for sale here for £500. grab the bloody thing quick will ya, as they don't come up that often.
Just to say, the original Micro base model had loads of charm to go with the slightly basic and "raw" quality. The current basic model is very similar - it gets the fundamentals SO right and, as Marco says, the more sphisticated models open out and further develop what the Micro Basic starts so well.
Thanks chaps for the advice, will be getting a dem of the 25 and Basic over the festive period.:)
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