View Full Version : EVO !!!
Audio Al
16-11-2012, 16:10
Just found this on the net :stalks:
http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/evo.html
:D:D
Wowza
Wakefield Turntables
16-11-2012, 16:23
Its $hit. Half the stuff on the EVO has already been bettered by some of the developers on this forum.
Audio Al
16-11-2012, 16:25
Its $hit. Half the stuff on the EVO has already been bettered by some of the developers on this forum.
Its $hit O bum :(
good job I did not order one then :)
Wakefield Turntables
16-11-2012, 17:02
There is far too much bling on that deck. Half the stuff thats on it came from ideas from other people and DC is known for charging top dollar for everything. Better results can be had for less moolah!
Its $hit. Half the stuff on the EVO has already been bettered by some of the developers on this forum.
Have you heard it?
If not how can you post a comment about it's performance?
Wakefield Turntables
19-11-2012, 09:01
Yes I have. It's still $hit.
chris@panteg
19-11-2012, 09:20
I'm no longer a believer in DC's upgrades for the 1200 , but to say the EVO is shite ! Well you might as well say the SL1200 is shite ? As many folk actually do think .
I just think the upgrades are not well thought out ,apart from the oyaide stuff , and too expensive for what they are .
Wakefield Turntables
19-11-2012, 09:31
Guys,
Before we all starting taking out our each individual handbags I'd like to point out that we are all entitled to our opinions, it's what makes AOS so special. If you don't like my view point that's fine by me but I will not get drawn into a argument about something so simple as a record player.
Chris, you have very valid points, I had some dc upgrades but they were blown away by other forum members designs. Dave, I think you've jumped the gun far too quickly by assuming that I'd not heard the EVO, which is again fine by me but something I wouldn't have done personally.
This is all I have to say on the subject and will not comment any further on the subject. Respect to all parties.
Yeah, whilst Andy is entitled to his opinion, I think that his "shit" remark is a bit OTT. The Evo may not be the best example of a heavily modded Techy (I don't know, as I haven't heard one), but for me, it definitely won't sound shit.
What I think is a more valid argument, is whether one can obtain better performance for similar money or less. I *suspect* so, but that's largely down to my dislike of modern, magnesium-made, SME arms (part of the EVO package), which IMO can definitely be bettered, sonically, for less money! :exactly:
I'm also not a massive fan of AT cartridges (again part of the EVO package). Personally, I think that a Jelco SA-750 (or a Wand) with a Zu-modded Denon DL-103, or SME Series M2/Zu-modded DL-103, would offer better SPPV, and produce a more musical sound. However, that opinion is of course subjective.
Marco.
chris@panteg
19-11-2012, 10:25
Excellent post Marco !
I would agree , and now having lived with the 309/AT33EV combo , I would say it's very good but oh so matter of fact and though not clinical exactly , its like a very good measuring device ! The darkish nature of the EV doesn't quite work with the similar slightly dark quality of the 1210 .
Should I change it ? Maybe but I'm skint again after the woodburner project .
I would agree , and now having lived with the 309/AT33EV combo , I would say it's very good but oh so matter of fact and though not clinical exactly , its like a very good measuring device ! The darkish nature of the EV doesn't quite work with the similar slightly dark quality of the 1210 .
Spot on, dude. That's exactly how it is. Some people may enjoy that type of presentation, but it certainly isn't to my taste, and it looks like, it's not exactly yours either.
You must remember that the Evo was 'costed' as a complete package, and so the fact that DC gets good margins on SME and Audio Technica products would've been a major reason why those items were chosen... ;)
Should I change it ? Maybe but I'm skint again after the woodburner project .
You should change it only if it's not doing it for you. The good news is that you'd have no problem shifting your 309, as SME products are always sought after, and you'd get decent money for it, so the option is there should you decide to go down that road. The AT would sell pretty easily, too :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
19-11-2012, 10:55
He certainly does get good margins on the AT , I imported mine from the states , even with duty and vat added , it was still way cheaper .
One area where this combo is excellent is in the bass ! I've simply never heard it better , superior to the Voyd/310/musicmaker !
Yup, but much of that will be down to the Techy, as it excels in that area, especially when modified :)
Marco.
chris@panteg
19-11-2012, 11:25
Yup, but much of that will be down to the Techy, as it excels in that area, especially when modified :)
Marco.
Agreed !
jamington2004
23-11-2012, 11:20
So whats the opinion on the timestep HE PSU anyone?
Go easy on me..... I just got a 1210 with one on :)
Sounds good to me.... but I can I get much better for the money?
Thanks in advance .....just don't tell me its SHIT! ;)
just don't tell me its SHIT! ;)
:pat: Don't worry, it's good but largely overpriced.
Chris - if you were to switch out one of them, I would sell the SME. If the AT33EV is anything like the AT33PTG, it's basically a good cartridge that hovers slightly on the bright side of neutral. Plus points are great detail retrieval and an extended treble. Bass is better than an OC9. You could do far worse than a Jelco SA-750D arm, which would get the best from the cartridge. Since the Jelco is cheaper than the SME you might not even need to add much cash into the deal. This combination would be much more organic.
chris@panteg
23-11-2012, 23:49
Chris - if you were to switch out one of them, I would sell the SME. If the AT33EV is anything like the AT33PTG, it's basically a good cartridge that hovers slightly on the bright side of neutral. Plus points are great detail retrieval and an extended treble. Bass is better than an OC9. You could do far worse than a Jelco SA-750D arm, which would get the best from the cartridge. Since the Jelco is cheaper than the SME you might not even need to add much cash into the deal. This combination would be much more organic.
Hi Martin , interesting , It doesn't sound very bright at all ? Actually a little too dark ? The bass is lovely , just the top end is not as open as I would like ? I'm not sure I would blame the SME ? I had a 310 on my old Voyd and that was beautifully open , though with a different cart , it still sounds good and I'm toying with trying a step up ?
One other variable , changing my amp from the Cambridge to a Marantz pearl lite has completely changed the tonal balance and presentation of my system ? In comparison it makes the Cambridge sound a bit bright , hard and forward ? Interestingly cd replay has taken a big leap forward with this Marantz but vinyl ....
One other variable , changing my amp from the Cambridge to a Marantz pearl lite has completely changed the tonal balance and presentation of my system ? In comparison it makes the Cambridge sound a bit bright , hard and forward ? Interestingly cd replay has taken a big leap forward with this Marantz but vinyl ....
The sound of the Cambridge is exactly as you described to my ears.
I heavily modded a 540P, but to no avail, the sound is IN the design.
Before you start using a SUT (wich I find is a very good idea), try a phono stage that is "known good" to your ears. Maybe you can borrow one or at least go listen to some phono stages of other people.
I haven't heard the Marantz and I don't know how good it is.
Have you tried it with a "simple" MM cartridge? Something neutral like the AT-440MLa?
Remember that you're listening to a chain of components, one link can totally shift the tonal balance.
Chris - if you were to switch out one of them, I would sell the SME. If the AT33EV is anything like the AT33PTG, it's basically a good cartridge that hovers slightly on the bright side of neutral. Plus points are great detail retrieval and an extended treble. Bass is better than an OC9. You could do far worse than a Jelco SA-750D arm, which would get the best from the cartridge. Since the Jelco is cheaper than the SME you might not even need to add much cash into the deal. This combination would be much more organic.
Agree totally :)
chris@panteg
24-11-2012, 11:01
The sound of the Cambridge is exactly as you described to my ears.
I heavily modded a 540P, but to no avail, the sound is IN the design.
Before you start using a SUT (wich I find is a very good idea), try a phono stage that is "known good" to your ears. Maybe you can borrow one or at least go listen to some phono stages of other people.
I haven't heard the Marantz and I don't know how good it is.
Have you tried it with a "simple" MM cartridge? Something neutral like the AT-440MLa?
Remember that you're listening to a chain of components, one link can totally shift the tonal balance.
Quite agree , I do have an old AT550ML precept MM ,might try that straight into the Pearl phono stage and see what happens ?
So whats the opinion on the timestep HE PSU anyone?
Go easy on me..... I just got a 1210 with one on :)
Sounds good to me.... but I can I get much better for the money?
Thanks in advance .....just don't tell me its SHIT! ;)
To say the psu or indeed the EVO is shit is quite pointless as it infers thus that the Techie is shit as the EVO is a techie with up-grades , it can easily be bettered but some people cannot be arsed with up-grading all the time while others are totally obsessed with it, everyone to their own, the EVO has some very good additions and compared to a standard Techie sounds far better, compared to a lot of TT's it sounds better, compared to a Techie modified differently it sounds worse, so to simply call it shit is missing the point entirely.
chris@panteg
24-11-2012, 11:05
So whats the opinion on the timestep HE PSU anyone?
Go easy on me..... I just got a 1210 with one on :)
Sounds good to me.... but I can I get much better for the money?
Thanks in advance .....just don't tell me its SHIT! ;)
Jamie ,if it sounds good to you then be happy and just buy more vinyl :)
Its when you start noticing things you don't like ? That's when you need to look at changing anything , and then you need to find out what's letting the side down ? Are you happy with it , is there anything that you think could be better about the sound/music/presentation ?
Jamie ,if it sounds good to you then be happy and just buy more vinyl :)
Its when you start noticing things you don't like ? That's when you need to look at changing anything , and then you need to find out what's letting the side down ? Are you happy with it , is there anything that you think could be better about the sound/music/presentation ?
Agreed chief, 100% correct :)
To say the psu or indeed the EVO is shit is quite pointless as it infers thus that the Techie is shit as the EVO is a techie with up-grades , it can easily be bettered but some people cannot be arsed with up-grading all the time while others are totally obsessed with it, everyone to their own, the EVO has some very good additions and compared to a standard Techie sounds far better, compared to a lot of TT's it sounds better, compared to a Techie modified differently it sounds worse, so to simply call it shit is missing the point entirely.
Indeed. Apart from that, "shit" tells you nothing constructive about the criticism being offered, and anyway, I prefer the world 'jobby'.
Marco.
Indeed. Apart from that, "shit" tells you nothing constructive about the criticism being offered, and anyway, I prefer the world 'jobby'.
Marco.
so are you actually agreeing with me chief? :)
Audio Al
24-11-2012, 12:15
I prefer the world 'jobby'.
Or Doo Doo's
Dump
N02's
Discharge
Etc :D
Yeah, and I'd also lob in 'beef olive' :D
Marco.
Hi Martin , interesting , It doesn't sound very bright at all ? Actually a little too dark ? The bass is lovely , just the top end is not as open as I would like ? I'm not sure I would blame the SME ?
Now that's interesting and the opposite of what I expected to hear. I slot my AT33PTG in occasionally and, compared with the Shelter 5000, it has a very open and airy treble lacking in the finest of filigree detail, and a detailed but slightly bright midrange. Bass is extended and decently powerful.
My memory of having an SME IV is that it's a very dry arm, not really pushing the midrange very well. That, to me, gives a dark presentation.
brian2957
24-11-2012, 12:50
Or Doo Doo's
Dump
N02's
Discharge
Etc :D
Nah jobby does it for me :)
so are you actually agreeing with me chief? :)
Yerse, daftee-chops... But only if you find 'jobby' a more prefereable description to 'shit'.
Marco.
chris@panteg
24-11-2012, 13:20
Now that's interesting and the opposite of what I expected to hear. I slot my AT33PTG in occasionally and, compared with the Shelter 5000, it has a very open and airy treble lacking in the finest of filigree detail, and a detailed but slightly bright midrange. Bass is extended and decently powerful.
My memory of having an SME IV is that it's a very dry arm, not really pushing the midrange very well. That, to me, gives a dark presentation.
I would agree with that , SME arms sound a little dry and cool , aloof might be a good descrption ?
tubehunter
24-11-2012, 13:21
Now that's interesting and the opposite of what I expected to hear. I slot my AT33PTG in occasionally and, compared with the Shelter 5000, it has a very open and airy treble lacking in the finest of filigree detail, and a detailed but slightly bright midrange. Bass is extended and decently powerful.
My memory of having an SME IV is that it's a very dry arm, not really pushing the midrange very well. That, to me, gives a dark presentation.
=metal jewellery
?
jamington2004
24-11-2012, 18:25
[QUOTE=OneyedK;386198]:pat: Don't worry, it's good but largely
Phew! ;)
Yerse, daftee-chops... But only if you find 'jobby' a more prefereable description to 'shit'.
Marco.
maybe, but I would "never" describe any item of hi-fi as shit purely becauye it may belong to someone who cares about it deeply and is offended enough to leave this very fine forum and that my dear would be a damn shame :)
=metal jewellery
Fine detail.
Absolutely, although the person you refer to, my dear, was banned from this very fine forum - and for VERY good reasons! He was banned long before he "left"! Many were indeed "offended" by his despicable (dishonest) actions against one of our valued trade members.
Now, I suggest that we leave that one there ;)
Marco.
Absolutely, although the person you refer to, my dear, was banned from this very fine forum - and for VERY good reasons! He was banned long before he "left"! Many were indeed "offended" by his despicable (dishonest) actions against one of our valued trade members.
Now, I suggest that we leave that one there ;)
Marco.
You got the wrong end of the stick chief, someone (not DC) posts to ask if the EVO is any good, he may have one he may not, to be told it's shit is offensive to any owner of the EVO as it would be offensive to call any hifi shit when it's bound to be owned by someone, that person who may have quite innocently posted on this fine forum for a constructive answer to a sensible question may now never come back as his pride and joy has been dissed.
Yes, I see what you mean now (it was unclear before). I thought you were referring to Cawley.
However, most of the comments here have been constructive, although critical, and I think that Jamie is made of sterner stuff, not to leave the forum simply because someone doesn't like his turntable power supply!
To suggest otherwise would be to do him a gross unjustice :)
I'm unaware of any full Evo owners on AoS, who may take 'offence' at any criticism of it.
Marco.
[QUOTE=OneyedK;386198]:pat: Don't worry, it's good but largely
Phew! ;)
In a cetrain way, I was serious, the Paul Hynes psu's are very very VERY good, but the Technics is limited in showing the quality of the power supply.
Actually, it's designed NOT to depend on the quality of the psu.
So with your timestep HE, you may have reached what is audible as improvement.
but the Technics is limited in showing the quality of the power supply.
Sorry, Karl. Gonna have to disagree with you there, as my ears and experience to date have told me something rather different! ;)
I've gone from the stock Techy PSU to a KAB USA one, to a stock Timestep, and from there with Paul Hynes SR3 > SR5, then SR7 (with internal regulator mods), and each step on my PSU upgrade path has been sonically significant, resulting in notable upgrades, with the last one being bloody HUGE!! :eek:
Marco.
Did you recap the main pcb Marco? (if not, please do so, that made a big difference here)
BOM with stuff from Farnell, changed the 4011 while I was at it.
http://users.telenet.be/kastaar/SL1200MK2/BOM1200mk2.JPG
I suppose the internal reg mod and the external transformer/rectifier/cap made the biggest difference.
I tried a number of diy and professional psu's to the 21V line and couldn't notice much difference. All after the recap.
Sorry, Karl. Gonna have to disagree with you there, as my ears and experience to date have told me something rather different! ;)
This would make sense. The Tecchy, with purely a psu mod but otherwise standard, would of course be a sonic bottleneck but start to clear that blockage (by way of arm/bearing etc etc) then of course the finer psu will start to show its mettle.
That's a good point, Richard, although the leap in performance from the stock PSU to the KAB one was rather evident, despite my T/T at that point only having the stock bearing, platter and tonearm (although the latter had been rewired with Cardas cable, and then fluid-damped)...
However, the biggest jump in performance came when I went from the SR5 to the SR7 (with regulator mods), which coincidentally, was when the rest of the T/T had been modded to the hilt, although the performance leap from the stock Timestep PSU, to the SR3 (and especially the SR5) was almost as large! ;)
IME, Paul's PSUs are simply in a different league to any others I've heard. He really is a master of PSU design.
Marco.
Hi Karl,
Did you recap the main pcb Marco? (if not, please do so, that made a big difference here)
I haven't done that mod yet, but it's one I'm considering for the future. It would have to be reversable, however, if I didn't like the effect. At the moment my T/T sounds so incredibly good that I'm reluctant to fiddle anymore with it :)
I suppose the internal reg mod and the external transformer/rectifier/cap made the biggest difference.
Indeed that made a MASSIVE difference - even more so than the SR7 PSU, which I'd fitted first. When the regulator mods had been carried out, it was as if everything just came together, with the full potential of the SR7 being realised in all its glory, all of which propelled the performance of my T/T into the big league, sonically and musically!
It was no coincidence, I feel, shortly after that I heard it completely outperform a (very good) £15k T/T, in the form of a Brinkmann Oasis, fitted with a Graham Phantom tonearm and ZYX Airy (I think?) cartridge, so much so that the owner sold it shortly after hearing the Techy... ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2012, 11:47
I was the first person to suggest getting the PCB capped on the forum. Just do it, its brings out so more from the 1210 its untrue. The best analogy is probably that of paint stripper. The mods have stripped away many layers of goo to reveal vastly greater detail in the music. A would say that bass is the next biggest improvement and then perception of instruments in the sound stage. For me it was a no-brainer. :cool:
I haven't done that mod yet, but it's one I'm considering for the future. It would have to be reversable, however, if I didn't like the effect. At the moment my T/T sounds so incredibly good that I'm reluctant to fiddle anymore with it :)
There's another reason to do the mod.
Technics uses quality film caps, but miniature electrolytics...
Those things will eventually fail or run out of spec, worst case, destroying one of the chips.
The effects of some of the "lesser" caps will be reduced by the internal PH regulators.
And don't worry, you will not want to go back to the old caps.
If your old caps were working perfectly, you should hear no change at all.
In that case, you just prolonged the life of your TT.
I'll be having a look at recapping the PCB next year.
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2012, 14:18
I'll be having a look at recapping the PCB next year.
Great! I think you will like the results. :eyebrows:
I'll be having a look at recapping the PCB next year.
You can be the guinea pig on that one, then! ;)
If I like what yours does, I'll follow suit....
Marco.
changed the 4011 while I was at it
Why? Are there different speed ratings of 4011 quad NAND gate?
Why? Are there different speed ratings of 4011 quad NAND gate?
Different speeds and different output current...
Didn't make a huge difference, still have some jitter, hope to solve that with a decent regulator...
Are there different speed ratings of 4011 quad NAND gate?
And in layman's terms, what the fook does that mean? :scratch:
Marco.
And in layman's terms, what the fook does that mean? :scratch:
Marco.
You need to get up to speed with your Boolean Algebra, Marco :)
And in layman's terms, what the fook does that mean? :scratch:
The output waveform is the quartz locked feedback signal.
The cleaner this signal is, the more accurate the very small speed corrections.
The higher bandwidth and stronger drive, that 4011 has, the cleaner (and accurate) the output signal is.
Smoother (micro) speed corrections...
--> this is also where the PH 5V internal regulator helps
Didn't make a huge difference, still have some jitter, hope to solve that with a decent regulator...
Ok, worth doing then. I'm still mulling over the crystal clock and whether any jitter reduction can be performed there.
Wakefield Turntables
25-11-2012, 21:23
Ok, worth doing then. I'm still mulling over the crystal clock and whether any jitter reduction can be performed there.
Send me a PM, I might be able to help here!
And in layman's terms, what the fook does that mean? :scratch:
It's hard to answer your question, Marco, unless you know electronics.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/4011_Pinout.svg/220px-4011_Pinout.svg.png
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