The Beatles vinyl remasters 12/11/2012

[chris@panteg]

Ok these are now available as a box set or individually .

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beatles-Stereo-Vinyl-Boxed-VINYL/dp/B0041KVW2K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352807916&sr=8-2

Now I'm not interested in thoughts about them being digital 24 bit and all that , but has anyone gone for them or going to get just a few favorites or the full box set ? What's the quality like , good pressings and so on .

I might get Revolver ,Pepper , White album and Abbey road .

[sq225917]

I just bought Help about 5 minutes ago I'll let you know once it has been played.

To be honest i'd rather they cut from a digital master than run an old tape through the tape machine one more time.

[chris@panteg]

I just bought Help about 5 minutes ago I'll let you know once it has been played.

To be honest i'd rather they cut from a digital master than run an old tape through the tape machine one more time.

Agreed , I've gone an ordered Pepper , just had to :)

[johnB]

I bought the Mono CD remasters in September 2009.....will wait for the Mono Vinyl remasters in 2013 (might have saved up by then)

[Rare Bird]

'Sgt Peppers'
'White Album' (The Beatles)
'Abbey Road'

'Magical Mystery'
'Yellow Sub'

fuzzies for me

[DSJR]

And they've all been tweaked to high heaven so will NEVER sound like the original pressings, for good or bad...

[Marco]

Indeed... There's only one way to listen to Beatles albums, and that's playing the original vinyl releases in mono, which is what I do. Fortunately mine are mostly minty (and a nice investment, too) :)

Feck yer 'audiophile' remaster pish.

Marco.

[sq225917]

Yeh, its nicely balanced for a new master, maybe a touch light in bass guitar on some tracks. What doesn't really work well for me is stereo placement, lacking in substance and room effect, very dead.

Not as good as the DMM's from a few years back. (but I was missing Help anyway)

[chris@panteg]

Yeh, its nicely balanced for a new master, maybe a touch light in bass guitar on some tracks. What doesn't really work well for me is stereo placement, lacking in substance and room effect, very dead.

Not as good as the DMM's from a few years back. (but I was missing Help anyway)

Interesting , the DMM's came in for a lot of stick ? A good friend bought a couple and didn't care for them , these new ones are not limited either , which is good !

[Audio Al]

£300 :stalks::eek::eek::eek:

Not for me

How long till one turns up at the boot sale :D

[sq225917]

I have Abbey Road, Let It Be and Revolver on DMM and they are all excellent to my ears. Just shows how taste differs.

[seoirse2002]

Indeed... There's only one way to listen to Beatles albums, and that's playing the original vinyl releases in mono, which is what I do. Fortunately mine are mostly minty (and a nice investment, too) :)

Feck yer 'audiophile' remaster pish.

Marco.

++
Back in the day,I made a day trip to Liverpool everytime a new album was released and bought 2,I was just a kid then....little did I know.
:cool:

[chris@panteg]

If you have the originals then that's great , but what about the rest of us who don't ! Should we just not bother listening at all ? Original pressings are rare and very expensive !

I'm happy to give these a try .

[Marco]

Lol... Sure. Access to the music is the important bit, via whatever method is necessary. I was just stating my preference, Chris :)

It's the original mono releases on vinyl where most care was taken in the production, and if you have good clean copies of them, you can really hear the difference compared to a re-master.

It's a shame, as listening to The Beatles in stereo is just 'wrong' ;)

I must buy myself a mono cartridge, to do my mono recordings justice, otherwise I'm just playing at it!

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Lol... Sure. Access to the music is the important bit, via whatever method is necessary. I was just stating my preference, Chris :)

It's the original mono releases on vinyl where most care was taken in the production, and if you have good clean copies of them, you can really hear the difference compared to a re-master.

It's a shame, as listening to The Beatles in stereo is just 'wrong' ;)

I must buy myself a mono cartridge to do the mono recordings justice, otherwise I'm just playing at it!

Marco.

Abbey Road is stereo , also listening to the Beatles in mono on a stereo system is wrong , you should listen with just one speaker to be authentic !

[Marco]

Indeed, and if I had a bigger house, I'd do it too, by building a dedicated vintage mono system! :exactly:

One day....

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Double post .

[chris@panteg]

Currently listening to revolver , 2009 cd remaster in stereo , sounds glorious ! I must be in minority as I like the pan pot stereo .

My Beatles CD's sound better than the vinyl I have ? Turntable must be shite lol.

[Marco]

Where? :scratch:

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Where? :scratch:

Marco.

Sorry that's me , I erased it .

[Audio Al]

Double post .

Not seen that Beetles album before :)

[chris@panteg]

Not seen that Beetles album before :)

Who are the Beetles :D

Sorry it's this bloody mobile , and I'm sloppy .

[Audioman]

I just bought Help about 5 minutes ago I'll let you know once it has been played.

To be honest i'd rather they cut from a digital master than run an old tape through the tape machine one more time.

Unfortunately Help and Rubber Soul are the 1987 George Martin Remixes - likely sourced initialy from 16bit digital tape. This title is hardly going to give a clue as to SQ of the remaining titles which are sourced from analogue initialy but are from the new masters at 24bit 44.1 Khz. Only difference from the USB version is they are not limited and some light EQ for vinyl cutting (though reported to sound much better). BTW mastering emgineer Sean Magee has stated there is no advantage in higher res digital source for vinyl cutting as head only goes up to 24khz. Benchmark DAC1 was used for D to A conversion as found better to Prism. (Perhaps EMI should try a Beresford!)

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/abbey-road-studios-sean-magee-talks-about-mastering-beatles-lp-box

Above link to Fremer interview with EMI mastering engineer Sean Magee.

Think I will hold out for the Mono box set and buy a few individual stereos depending on reports of sound and pressing quality. Long thread on SH forum many comments not favourable (mainly Rainbo US press). EU press from Optimal.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/beatles-remasters-on-vinyl-part-7.301409/page-6#post-8242969

A comparison by 'experts' Chicago Tribune. - shame UK papers don't have this interest in quality.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-12/entertainment/ct-ent-1113-beatles-vinyl-20121112_1_beatles-nostalgia-beatles-catalog-beatles-lps

Paul.

[sparrow]

Currently listening to revolver , 2009 cd remaster in stereo , sounds glorious ! I must be in minority as I like the pan pot stereo .

My Beatles CD's sound better than the vinyl I have ? Turntable must be shite lol.



I mostly prefer the stereo versions I own the stereo & mono cd box sets and mostly listen to the stereo versions. So your not alone in prefering the stereo versins Chris..My CD's sound better than the vinyl versions I have too..:scratch:

[chris@panteg]

I mostly prefer the stereo versions I own the stereo & mono cd box sets and mostly listen to the stereo versions. So your not alone in prefering the stereo versins Chris..My CD's sound better than the vinyl versions I have too..:scratch:

It does happen ,funny old world .

[chris@panteg]

Received Sgt Pepper in the post today , lovely pressing and original inner bag too , sounds very good indeed ! Paul's bass playing , wow and the tabla on within you without you , well worth getting .

[Rare Bird]

Whats the cover quality like Chris?

[chris@panteg]

Whats the cover quality like Chris?

It looks beautiful Andre ! Lovely deep colours , it's even got the psychedelic inner sleeve like the very early pressings , nice touch and of course the cut outs + a fold out with notes from macca , George Martin and Peter Blake .

I want some more !

[Rare Bird]

Ok thanks just ordered 'Sgt Peppers' & 'Magical Mystery Tour' fuzzies

[chris@panteg]

Apparently Revolver is blindingly good , one of my favorite albums , it's a must buy .

[Rare Bird]

Ouch the 'White Album' is expensive, but i must have it.. Yes 'Revolver' is on my list too.

[chris@panteg]

Ouch the 'White Album' is expensive, but i must have it.. Yes 'Revolver' is on my list too.

It is a bit of an ouch ! It's way better than a DMM copy of pepper I have though .

[DSJR]

I think I'll stick to my 1980 vinyl box set. Still sounds fine to me even if the side 2 locked groove of Sgt Pepper is way out of synch..

[Marco]

Ok thanks just ordered 'Sgt Peppers' & 'Magical Mystery Tour' fuzzies

Where's the best source for this stuff, chaps - who are you using? Links please :)

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

I'm well impressed with the one I've bought - I had to return 2 Stevie Wonder to Fopp because of faulty pressings (both were dished), and I ended up with a copy of Rubber Soul as a replacement.

The sleeve is fantastic, and without barcoding too (that's on a sticker on the outer cellophane)

I've only just got in, so I'll have to wait for a more appropriate time to listen to the record.

[Stratmangler]

Where's the best source for this stuff, chaps - who are you using? Links please :)

Marco.

Amazon is under £300 for the complete set.

[chris@panteg]

Whatrecords.co.uk are doing them slightly cheaper than Amazon , take a look.

The mono set is out next spring , might be worth waiting for the early albums ?

I'm struck by how strong and clear Paul's bass sounds on pepper , these have not been limited like the cd's .

[Stratmangler]

Thanks for that Chris - they're £25 lower than Amazon for the set.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks for that Chris - they're £25 lower than Amazon for the set.

Your welcome , I already have almost all the remastered cds but I would like quite a few of these , I bought a lot of the stones reissues too .

[Marco]

Whatrecords.co.uk are doing them slightly cheaper than Amazon , take a look.

The mono set is out next spring , might be worth waiting for the early albums ?


Cheers, Chris. I'll take a look at that and also at Amazon. The mono box set, due in the spring, is definitely something that will interest me :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Your welcome , I will buy some of the mono's , the box set won't have Abbey road or let it be as these were stereo only, I think Yellow submarine too ?

[Stratmangler]

Talking of The Stones - there's a documentary about 'em on BBC2 right now

[chris@panteg]

Talking of The Stones - there's a documentary about 'em on BBC2 right now

Cheers Chris , will iPlayer that as I'm watching the wolfman .

[Marco]

Whatrecords.co.uk are doing them slightly cheaper than Amazon , take a look.


Are these the same vinyl remasters, as are available currently on Amazon: http://www.whatrecords.co.uk/search.asp?artist=beatles&title=&format=&catalogue=&submit.x=90&submit.y=4

Just checking! :)

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

Are these the same vinyl remasters, as are available currently on Amazon: http://www.whatrecords.co.uk/search.asp?artist=beatles&title=&format=&catalogue=&submit.x=90&submit.y=4

Just checking! :)

Marco.

Them's the ones.
The full monty box set is here http://www.whatrecords.co.uk/items/58027.htm

[chris@panteg]

Yes Marco , the new issues are stated as being 180 gm 2012 remasters .

[Marco]

Nice one, chaps. I'll hang out for the mono box set, in the spring, but for single stereo reissues now, £3 per album is better in my pocket than Amazon's... So, I'll order a couple of my fav Beatles albums (Rubber Soul and Revolver) from What Records :)

What's their service like - have you used them before, Chris, or anyone else?

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

I've signed up for an account with them , but not done any business yet , I got pepper from Amazon .

[Marco]

No worries, I'm sure they'll be fine :)

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

Rubber Soul sounds incredible :)

[chris@panteg]

Rubber Soul sounds incredible :)

I'm gonna have to buy that one as well , Paul's bass really coming to the fore ? I'm looking through you is one of my faves .

[DanJennings]

No worries, I'm sure they'll be fine :)

Marco.

I've been ordering the recent Iron Maiden picture discs from them.

They arrived within 2 days of ordering them packaged up perfectly. Very impressed.

[Marco]

Cheers, Danny boy - good to know! :)

Marco.

[DSJR]

I thought the original CD of Rubber Soul was pretty darned good too, and far better than the leaner tones of the first four albums in mono that were released.

Paul's bass seems to have taken on a new life of its own in these remasters (the mastering engineers have confirmed this in interview I remember) and in fairness, it deserves to be since he actually played some good melodic lines on it rather than just underpinning the kick drum as other bassists can do IMO.

[Mr Kipling]

Amazing how peoples' views can differ. I was really disappointed with the sound quality of the original cds - at least the ones I bought. Initially I got the first two titles, and didn't bother with the rest. I found them lacking the drive, energy and excitement that is clearly there on the lps. A whole band of top-end energy simply wasn't there. In the press comments were made regarding their sound quality. Later on I did buy the Antholagy sets and Let It Be Naked (which wouldn't play properly ) and Yellow Submarine and some bootlegs, some of which sounded ok. I also got the EP Boxset and again found the sound disappointing. The first Capital Boxset was a surprise: I couldn't believe what had been done to tracks in the US with regards adding reverb and echo. Travesty.

With all this in mind, I didn't hold out much hope for the remastered cds. Asda was selling them reduced as they appeared and so I thought I'd try them. Thankfully, they sounded very good, for the most part. Couldn't get over how clean and fresh Rubber Soul sounded. I love the packaging too.

Some months ago a Hong Kong seller on Ebay was selling what he said to be was single cds from the Mono Boxset. A few were listed. With The Beatles was one of them and as it's a favourite and was less than £7 at Buy Now and curious about the sound quality as the Mono Boxset was reported to be the one to get if you could afford it and of course wondering if it could be at all genuine, I went for it.

It arrived within a couple of weeks and when I looked at it it did in fact appear to be genuine (found a thread here which linked to Amazon showing the differences between fakes and the genuine article). Had a look on Ebay and the seller wasn't selling the same thing again so it seemed the real thing. Put it on and ---- I'd rather listen to the stereo version, which to my ears has a greater sense of space, acoustics and separation. But that's just my opinion. I know mono can sound great. On John Fogerty's album Long Road Home which includes CCR classics is Proud Mary, which sounds excellent. I listened to it three times on the trot before I realized it was mono. It just had so much separation and lack of compression.

[Mr Kipling]

P.S.
When I got a Thorens 160
And Hadcock in the late '70s it was a novelty to hear Paul. Wondered what he'd been doing all those years.

[Audioman]

Sorry to but in on the praise for Rubber Soul here (CD or new vinyl). This and Help use the 1987 Geaorge Martin remix in 16/44.1 digital. Same as used for the late 80's Cd's and LP's. I compared my DMM digital Lp with my late 70's analogue pressing last week. The analogue original mix is far superior - I'm sure an early pressing would be better still. Pinched flattened sound and John Lennons voice sounding very nasal which it certainly doesn't in the original mix.

Michael Fremer has reviewed the new Lp on Analogue Planet and it doesn't sound like cutting to new 180g vinyl has improved matters - why would it? Anyone who likes this has eviidently never heard an original analogue mix on LP.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/rubber-souled-out

[Mr Kipling]

My vinyl copy of Rubber Soul dates from the early '70s. I always thought the mix was a bit odd. The same with Revolver, if I'm being honest. My favourite is probably A Hard Day's Night which is a simple and straightforward mix. I have a German cd version, a Japanese Toshiba/EMI one and the UK remaster which sounds best to me

[Audioman]

My vinyl copy of Rubber Soul dates from the early '70s. I always thought the mix was a bit odd. The same with Revolver, if I'm being honest. My favourite is probably A Hard Day's Night which is a simple and straightforward mix. I have a German cd version, a Japanese Toshiba/EMI one and the UK remaster which sounds best to me

Yes the original Lp was poorly mixed and in many ways the worst engineered Beatles Album. Point is GM's remix does little to improve it and using a prehistoric digital source is totaly inadequate for any new release. Apart from Help and Rubber Soul the other reissues are from 24/44.1 digital files of the 2009 remasters.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


Sorry to but in on the praise for Rubber Soul here (CD or new vinyl). This and Help use the 1987 Geaorge Martin remix in 16/44.1 digital. Same as used for the late 80's Cd's and LP's. I compared my DMM digital Lp with my late 70's analogue pressing last week. The analogue original mix is far superior - I'm sure an early pressing would be better still. Pinched flattened sound and John Lennons voice sounding very nasal which it certainly doesn't in the original mix.

Michael Fremer has reviewed the new Lp on Analogue Planet and it doesn't sound like cutting to new 180g vinyl has improved matters - why would it? Anyone who likes this has eviidently never heard an original analogue mix on LP.


Well, today I ordered copies of Rubber Soul and Revolver, from the newly released batch of vinyl, so when it arrives, I'll compare it with my 1970s vinyl reissues, on EMI, and my original 1960s copies on mono ('Yellow Parlophone'), and let you know what I think! ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

I'm praying these vinyls sound good as i just totally cannot listern to the last CD offerings of em.

[chris@panteg]

Paul , I wouldn't read too much into that fremer review ? Apparently the us pressings have been poor , though being rectified I think , you have to listen for yourself and if Chris says it sounds incredible , then that's good enough for me .

I've ordered revolver , heard it's one of the best sounding ?

[chris@panteg]

I'm praying these vinyls sound good as i just totally cannot listern to the last CD offerings of em.

I hope you like them Andre , they are not limited or cut loud like the CDs .

[Rare Bird]

Good, saying that Chris i cannot listern to CD for long these days..somethings happened to me

[Audioman]

I'm praying these vinyls sound good as i just totally cannot listern to the last CD offerings of em.

They sound better according to numerous posts on SH forum. They are however from the same 24/44.1 remasters as used for the CD's but obviously gain from being 24bit (except RS and Help) and no compression. Problem is a little forthought by EMI 4 years ago would have resulted in a better source from higher res digital or analogue. See Analogue Planet web site for the continuing reviews by Michael Fremer. They are mostly pretty favourable.

[Audioman]

Paul , I wouldn't read too much into that fremer review ? Apparently the us pressings have been poor , though being rectified I think , you have to listen for yourself and if Chris says it sounds incredible , then that's good enough for me .

I've ordered revolver , heard it's one of the best sounding ?

Comments are on the SQ. The 5/10 rating for RS is for SQ and Fremer's pressings have been decent compared to other reports. They use the same source (EU and US) cut at Abbey Road by Sean Magee. Don't think you can tansform the 87 remix with a few SQ tweaks and nicer vinyl. I frankly think his marks overall are quite generous considering the losses he identifies v his all analogue LP's. I would need to know what benchmark Chris has for 'incredible' but as you say listen for yourself.

BTW my benchmark for reissues would be Doors 45rpm, Dylan Mono, King Crimson Panagenic reissues etc. General reports on SQ appear to be favourable on the Beatles reissues except Help/RS. I would certainly not purchase these two titles having the same remix on vinyl already. May dip into a few of the best reviewed ones but realy waiting for the upcoming mono box. :)

Paul.

[chris@panteg]

Good, saying that Chris i cannot listern to CD for long these days..somethings happened to me

CD has never sounded better in my set , why that is I don't know ? But it was very often unlistenable in my old valve system , being to bright , hard and shouty .

[Marco]

Comments are on the SQ. The 5/10 rating for RS is for SQ and Fremer's pressings have been decent compared to other reports. They use the same source (EU and US) cut at Abbey Road by Sean Magee. Don't think you can tansform the 87 remix with a few SQ tweaks and nicer vinyl. I frankly think his marks overall are quite generous considering the losses he identifies v his all analogue LP's.


Like I said earlier, I'll let you know what I think when RS and Revolver arrive. As mentioned, I have some rather good benchmark recordings from which to judge the new ones against, not to mention a very revealing system (and T/T) that includes near-identical speakers to those used at Abbey Road for monitoring purposes, when the original albums were produced! ;)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Like I said earlier, I'll let you know what I think when RS and Revolver arrive. As mentioned, I have some rather good benchmark recordings from which to judge the new ones against, not to mention a very revealing system (and T/T) that includes near-identical speakers to those used at Abbey Road for monitoring purposes, when the original albums were produced! ;)

Marco.

Problem is they now use B&W 800D speakers for monitoring. :)

[Marco]

Yeah, I know - just having a giggle... However, it's probably one of the reasons why my earliest Beatles (all analogue) recordings on vinyl sound so good, which in turn is why I'm in an ideal position to assess the new stuff, by having such a good benchmark from which to judge! ;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

CD has never sounded better in my set , why that is I don't know ? But it was very often unlistenable in my old valve system , being to bright , hard and shouty .

It's not that as i have about 6 CD players tried all sorts of system combo's with em..I find vinyl sounds a lot better to the ear these days!I must be doing something right for once after 30 years of farting about :D

[chris@panteg]

It's not that as i have about 6 CD players tried all sorts of system combo's with em..I find vinyl sounds a lot better to the ear these days!I must be doing something right for once after 30 years of farting about :D

The lenco's are somewhat underrated , glad you're enjoying vinyl again , will outlive cd I hope ?

[Audioman]

MF has now reviewed the new White Album - worst sound so far. Is this a result of digital remastering or using 'bright' B&W monitoring?

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/beatles-why-dont-we-throw-it-road-when-everyone-watching

[chris@panteg]

MF has now reviewed the new White Album - worst sound so far. Is this a result of digital remastering or using 'bright' B&W monitoring?

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/beatles-why-dont-we-throw-it-road-when-everyone-watching

This is a little worrying , I read a review on amazon of the new white album and the guy said it sounded too bass heavy and soft ? Not how I remember it :(

Revolver is getting the best reviews ,Sgt Pepper sounds good to me ,certainly an improvement on my 1987 copy .

Still ,quite a few reviews are very positive ?

[chris@panteg]

Been playing Pepper again , and I'm not so sure now ? She's leaving home doesn't sound right , it's like it's mistracking or something ? Thought there was something wrong with my TT but other records sound ok .

[Audioman]

Sounds worrying. If it fails to better the DMM, 16 bit sourced vinyl something is wrong. Frankly the later DMM albums sound better than they have any right to considering the source. More reports on SH forums regarding the White Album that back up Fremers review (from people who actualy know what to expect). SPLHCB is still getting good reviews.

Paul.

[Marco]

I think some people are starting to worry too much about bollocks, instead of just enjoying the music! ;)

My copies of RS and Revolver are due to arrive tomorrow, so I can't wait to hear what they're like.

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

I can't enjoy she's leaving home at the moment , its a bit crunchy and the high notes are making me wince .

[Marco]

That sounds like something is not quite right in your set-up then, Chris.

I'm listening to an MP3 clip on Juno (of the track from the album in question) and it sounds fine (or as fine as MP3 can be), but there's none of the distortion you speak of.

Have a listen yourself: http://www.juno.co.uk/miniflashplayer/SF470748-01-01-06.mp3

:)

Marco.

[Bazil]

I think some people are starting to worry too much about bollocks, instead of just enjoying the music! ;)
Marco.

Too right, when these records were first made we were playing or listening to them (and "digging" them) on tranny's, radiograms, suitcase record players :D

[chris@panteg]

That sounds like something is not quite right in your set-up then, Chris.

I'm listening to an MP3 clip on Juno (of the track from the album in question) and it sounds fine (or as fine as MP3 can be), but there's none of the distortion you speak of.

Have a listen yourself: http://www.juno.co.uk/miniflashplayer/SF470748-01-01-06.mp3

:)

Marco.

It could be , will play it on my QL1 , see how it sounds ?

[Marco]

Let us know how you get on :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Let us know how you get on :)

Marco.

Will do , be interesting to try out the Pearl lite phono stage at the same time .

[chris@panteg]

Played Pepper on the QL1 , she's leaving home has excessive noise , especially on the right channel ? It still sounds ok but it's irritating , rest of the album is fine , I've got revolver coming but I think I'm going to stick with the 2009 CDs .

More worrying is how well the QL1 sounds against my 1210 ? And into the pearl phono stage , I'm in no rush to switch back , + the QL1 has an earth fault in the left channel , which isn't too intrusive but it's not helping SQ .

[Marco]

Played Pepper on the QL1 , she's leaving home has excessive noise , especially on the right channel ? It still sounds ok but it's irritating...


Sounds like they've used recycled (which can be noisy), as opposed to virgin vinyl. If that's the case it's disappointing, considering the price charged. I'm expecting my copies of RS and Revolver to arrive today, so I'm keen to assess them and report my findings.

You don't have an RCM, do you, Chris?

Here's a suggestion, then... Do you still have the packaging from Amazon that came with the record? If so, if you send the record to me in that packaging (or similar), to keep it safe, I'll clean it thoroughly for you on my RCM, and at the same time have a listen to it on my set-up, and see if I find similar problems.

It would be good to know for the reference of our members, and then you'll also know whether it's the fault of the record or your T/T. I'll pick up the cost of return postage, so the worst outcome is that you get a nicely cleaned record for the cost of one-way postage to Wrexham! :)


More worrying is how well the QL1 sounds against my 1210 ? And into the pearl phono stage , I'm in no rush to switch back...

We've been here before, matey, if you remember? That really shouldn't be happening, if your 1210 is 'right'. I suspect that there is an issue somewhere with it. I just wish that I lived closer and I could pop round and have a listen...

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

That's a nice gesture Marco , thanks for the offer , fortunately my friend John has a VPI cleaning machine , so I'll ask him if he can clean it for me .

Something just isn't right with my 1210/309/AT33EV , it just sounds way too dull ! Or lacking in clarity and openness compared with the QL1 ? I noticed the same dullness with the 'Precept' cart ? This had Richard baffled too , still this is not the place to discuss this !

I hope your Beatles will be fine , sure they will be:)

[Marco]

No worries, dude. It was just a thought. I'd defo get your mate John to clean it thoroughly on his RCM, and report back. Trust me, even brand new vinyl needs cleaned; in fact sometimes, especially so!

The issue with your 1210 is a real puzzler. However, I think you need to hear it with a different arm fitted, which of course is easier said than done...

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

No worries, dude. It was just a thought. I'd defo get your mate John to clean it thoroughly on his RCM, and report back. Trust me, even brand new vinyl needs cleaned; in fact sometimes, especially so!

The issue with your 1210 is a real puzzler. However, I think you need to hear it with a different arm fitted, which of course is easier said than done...

Marco.

You know what , I'm thinking of getting another stock arm ,put the precept on it ,and .... I bet it will sound better :D

Still this a Beatles thread .

[Marco]

You know what , I'm thinking of getting another stock arm ,put the precept on it ,and .... I bet it will sound better :D


Lol... I'd like to know the outcome of that one!


Still this a Beatles thread

Indeed, and RS and Revolver have just arrived, so I'm off for a listen! :gig:

Marco.

[Marco]

Well, I've just had my first listen to both albums and can confidentally state the following:

1) The recording quality on both RS and Revolver is very good indeed. I'm inclined to agree with Chris' description earlier, of RS! Therefore, there is no issue worth worrying about, in terms of inferior sound quality. I haven't a clue what Fremer is waffling on about... :rolleyes:

2) On examining the records, I'm almost certain that it's virgin vinyl that's been used for these pressings. They are shiny and pristine looking, with none of the 'cloudiness' usually associated with recycled vinyl.

3) The records are beautifully flat, with no evidence of 'dishing', as unfortunately can be the case with some new records. The pressings are very quiet, even without having yet washed the records on my RCM.

All I need to do now is compare them to my originals in mono and also the 70s all-analogue reissues I've got, and offer my opinion on that. Rest assured though, that these current reissues are audiophile quality recordings in any normal sense of the word.

For £16.99 (excluding postage) from What Records (great service from them, btw), I'd say that these Beatles vinyl reissues are worth every penny, and in terms of the artwork and overall presentation, beautifully reproduced from the originals - even down to the yellow Parlophone writing on the black label!

My advice? BUY WITH CONFIDENCE and enjoy!! :exactly:

Marco.

[Audioman]

Well, I've just had my first listen to both albums and can confidentally state the following:

The recording quality on both RS and Revolver is very good indeed. I'm inclined to agree with Chris' description earlier, of RS! Therefore, there is no issue worth worrying about, in terms of inferior sound quality. I haven't a clue what Fremer is waffling on about... :rolleyes:

All I need to do now is compare them to my originals in mono and also the 70s all-analogue reissues I've got, and offer my opinion on that. Rest assured though, that these current reissues are audiophile quality recordings in any normal sense of the word.

I think you may have a different view of RS when you compare to analogue stereo. In isolation I'm sure it sounds OK as does the 1987 version but they both use 16/44.1 remix so there should be a clear quality drop v the 24bit titles. Doesn't help that RS (stereo) is the worst job GM did on a Beatles record anyway.



For £16.99 (excluding postage) from What Records (great service from them, btw), I'd say that these Beatles vinyl reissues are worth every penny, and in terms of the artwork and overall presentation, beautifully reproduced from the originals - even down to the yellow Parlophone writing on the black label!

Good value at that price even if not to 'audiophile' standards.


Paul.

[Marco]

Good value at that price even if not to 'audiophile' standards.


I disagree, Paul.

I'd say that these new re-masters are unquestionably produced to 'audiophile' standards. However, they're not the absolute best, in terms of sound quality; as you say, The Doors ones have been produced to an even higher standard, but the current Beatles ones are certainly not shabby and nothing like Fremer describes, unless the US versions are markedly inferior, sonically.

That's the only possible explanation for the huge discrepancy of opinion - either that or his T/T and system are shite! I can assure you categorically - I am not hearing what he is. If I were rating the sound quality of the 2012 Rubber Soul and Revolver reissues, I'd give both 8.5 out of 10, or possibly 8 for Revolver, as IMO, RS has been recorded just a tad better, although the small difference could be down to pressing inconsistency.

I'll be comparing the RS to my 1965 stereo version, and Revolver to my 1966 version in mono: both original all-analogue recordings (save the original master tapes, it doesn't get much better as a benchmark), and will report my findings here later. Regardless of whether I think the originals are better, it won't change my opinon of the new stuff :)

Marco.

[Audioman]

I totally disagree, Paul.

I'd say that these new remasters are unquestionably produced to 'audiophile' standards. They're not the absolute best, in terms of sound quality. As you say, The Doors ones have been done to an even higher standard, but the current Beatles ones are certainly not shabby, and nothing like Fremer describes, unless the US versions are markedly inferior, sonically.

That's the only possible explanation for the huge discrepancy of opinion - either that or his T/T and system are shite! I can assure you categorically - I am not hearing what he is. If I were rating the sound quality of the 2012 Rubber Soul and Revolver reissues, I'd give both 8.5 out of 10.

I'll be comparing the RS to my 1965 stereo version and Revolver to my 1966 version in mono: both original all-analogue recordings (save the original master tapes, it doesn't get much better as a benchmark), and will report my findings here later. Regardless of whether I think the originals are better, it won't change my opinon of the new stuff :)

Marco.

Marco we can disagree on the relevant merits of these reissues and there is certainly divided opinions. I don't know if you have been following the long thread on the SH forum but there is a lot of information there regarding the methodology used in producing these albums. That includes contributions from the cutting engineer Sean Magee. There is also an audio interview with Mr Magee on the Analogue Planet site.

For starters it is obvious EMI did not set out to produce discs for Audiophiles. The approach of Chad Kaseem at AP is different night and day. I believe he extracted the original tapes from the Doors/Warners (previously declared unusable by them) by offering a very large sum of money. It's interesting that EMI similarly declare the Beatles tapes as not practical to use and even spurned the opportunity to make working first gen copies. They spent years transfering and tweaking to hi-res files then rendered these down to 24/44.1 presumably as this made it easier to furthur render them to 16/44.1. This whole project was aimed at CD sales plus there was a USB of all the albums at 20/44.1.

The same source without compression was used for the vinyl and frankly it looks like Sean Magee did a pretty good job with what he was given (most of the EQ being done at the earlier stages). The official spin that SM is giving is that there was no intention to replicate the original vinyl so it appears he did a fairly straight cut from the 20/44.1 sourced digital files. Clearly there was more effort and money put into producing the box set design and booklet. In fact it appears the box set booklet caused the extended delay in these releases.

There are other strange facts that indicate that max quality of sound was not an aim of these records apart from the relatively low res digital source used. Apparantly they used a benchmark Dac1 for D/A feeding the signal to the lathe. In spite of what Abbey Road might claim it is hardly state of the art and is now probably inferior to the latest Beresford. So in my view cost cutting again? or just very strange as I am sure Abbey Road could have got any dac they choose on approval to try out on this project. Definite covering of tracks too from Mr Magee with his claims that cutting from higher res digital makes no difference due to cutting head limitatons !

To summarise Marco though I am sure these are good sounding they are formost product rather than a labour of love in the way AP operate. Designed to generate much needed extra cash out of Beatles collectors and vinyl newbies. I am sure though that the poor pressings in the USA (they used Rainbo :doh:) will put a lot of people of vinyl for life. These are patently not audiophile or aimed at audiophiles.

BTW If you think Fremer has a crap turntable then the Continuum Caliburn is then a load of overpriced crap - but then haven't you sung it's praises in the past?

Rant over.

Happy listening. Paul.

[Marco]

Thanks for the info, Paul - much appreciated. It's certainly interesting to know :)

I've not been following discussions elsewhere. My 'forum time' is totally taken up with AoS and helping run the site.

However, I stand by my observations, based purely on what I can hear and what I've experienced to date with many other 'audiophile' re-masters, including classic rock releases on the Sundazed and Music on Vinyl labels, Musical Fidelity, Pure Pleasure, etc, which most certainly were produced with the highest quality sound in mind, and the Beatles 2012 re-masters I've been listening to today are every bit as good as any of those!

So what does that tell you? You can set out to achieve whatever you like, but whether the end results produced match your goals is another matter entirely. Furthermore, judging SQ is always going to be subjective. Therefore, whether or not "EMI did not set out to produce discs for Audiophiles", audiophile sound quality, based on previous benchmarks of similar products, is definitely what's coming out of my speakers - trust me!! ;)

I think the reason that Fremer is so negative towards these new Beatles re-issues is because the US versions are crap in comparison, which unfortunately is painting a falsely negative picture of the UK stuff and putting some people here off. That's why I'm keen to redress the balance and counter with my own valid practical experience of listening to the latter.

I'll be back later with my views on how the new UK re-masters compare with the original albums I have, so stay tuned! :cool:

Marco.

[Audioman]

Thanks for the info, Paul - much appreciated. It's certainly interesting to know :)

I've not been following discussions elsewhere. My 'forum time' is totally taken up with AoS and helping run the site.

However, I stand by my observations, based purely on what I can hear and what I've experienced to date with many other 'audiophile' re-masters, including classic releases on the Sundazed and Music on Vinyl labels, Musical Fidelity, Pure Pleasure, etc, which most certainly were produced with the highest quality sound in mind, and the Beatles 2012 re-masters I've been listening to today are every bit as good as any of those!

So what does that tell you? You can set out to achieve whatever you like, but whether the end results produced match your goals is another matter entirely. Therefore, whether or not "EMI did not set out to produce discs for Audiophiles", audiophile sound quality, based on previous benchmarks of similar products, is definitely what's coming out of my speakers - trust me!! ;)

I think the reason that Fremer is so negative towards these new Beatles re-issues is because the US versions are crap in comparison, which unfortunately is painting a falsely negative picture of the UK stuff and putting some people here off. That's why I'm keen to redress the balance and counter with my own valid practical experience of listening to the latter.

I'll be back later with my views on how the new UK re-masters compare with the original albums I have, so stay tuned! :cool:

Marco.

Thanks for your comments Marco. I think in many ways the Beatles Recordings sound that good in musical and production terms that it is hard to make em sound realy bad anyway. However I can never regard them in the same ball park as some of the labels you mention as they major (jazz apart) on more modern recordings that are truly hi-fi.

The Beatles I regard as a vintage flavour limited by the equipment of the time as the same standards were not applied to pop as classical in those days. So Abbey Road album apart it's usualy comparing Apples and Oranges. I'm positive listening to 60's recordings that Abbey Road studios was a year or two behind the curve compared with California.

Frankly I think MF's markings are quite high considering the source of these LP's and how they apparantly deviate from the originals he is used to listening to. So far only bad marks for 2 albums. The difference in the US copies can only be in pressing as Sean Magee cut two laquers for each album - one of each going to Rainbo and Optimal. So same mastering but Rainbo screwed plating or pressing or both.

No matter how good these may sound I know they could easily have been so much better that they blew mint first pressings away. I am waiting the mono box as I think they may be a lot better but tempted to try a few of the Stereo.

Paul.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


I think in many ways the Beatles Recordings sound that good in musical and production terms that it is hard to make em sound realy bad anyway.


Agreed. They're very good recordings of 60s pop music, and the recent re-issues continue in that theme of quality. I think it's fairly safe to say that if EMI didn't go out of their way to produce audiophile quality sound, then I'd be very excited at hearing what they could produce if they tried, as these vinyl re-masters, to my ears are excellent, and in terms of SQ, better than a lot of other material I've heard released today on vinyl.


However I can never regard them in the same ball park as some of the labels you mention as they major (jazz apart) on more modern recordings that are truly hi-fi.


Well again there we'll have to differ. I own many recordings, on the labels mentioned, and can say that the Beatles re-issues are in the same ballpark, SQ-wise. Some of the other audiophile recordings in question are better and some are worse, but the Beatles ones are certainly of comparable quality.

You really are doing them a disservice, so I think you should buy some of the albums in question, rather than surmising and relying on the opinion of others, and use your own ears to assess things and decide what you think! :)


The Beatles I regard as a vintage flavour limited by the equipment of the time as the same standards were not applied to pop as classical in those days.


Lol... Well, in my opinion, some of the gear used at Abbey Road in those days was fantastic and amongst the best ever made! Top-notch valve microphones, mixing desks and tape equipment, all producing superb quality recordings, much of which is better than what's produced in studios today.

Yes, they were only pop recordings, but the fact that they sounded so good is testament to the quality of the equipment used and the skills of the engineers employed in those days.


So Abbey Road album apart it's usualy comparing Apples and Oranges. I'm positive listening to 60's recordings that Abbey Road studios was a year or two behind the curve compared with California.


Maybe, but I've not heard many Sundazed recordings sound better than these 2012 Beatles re-issues, so if Abbey Road were "behind the curve", then it doesn't seem to have held them back too much!


Frankly I think MF's markings are quite high considering the source of these LP's and how they apparantly deviate from the originals he is used to listening to.


Well, I also have originals and so am in the same position as Fremer to comment on how they compare with the current re-issues, which I will do (as I've had a listen now, so I know what differences there are between both), and based on that, I think he's being very unfair on the new stuff. In fact, that's me being kind. Quite frankly, what he seems to be hearing is certainly NOT representative of the results I'm getting here.


So far only bad marks for 2 albums. The difference in the US copies can only be in pressing as Sean Magee cut two laquers for each album - one of each going to Rainbo and Optimal. So same mastering but Rainbo screwed plating or pressing or both.


Well, whatever is the cause, the effects of the pressing procedure are obviously very significant, in order to have produced two entirely different results in his system and mine.


No matter how good these may sound I know they could easily have been so much better that they blew mint first pressings away.


That may be the case, but they certainly sound better than about 70% of the vinyl I've heard released today! I think that some people are being way too picky about things. I've certainly heard enough from RS and Revolver to want to buy more of the current re-issues, so will be buying the White Album, Sgt. Pepper and A Hard Day's Night next.


I am waiting the mono box as I think they may be a lot better but tempted to try a few of the Stereo.


Same here. I'll be buying the mono box set when it comes out, but also wanted to add a few of the latest stereo ones to my collection, and am very glad that I did! :cool:

Marco.

[Audioman]

Marco.

I believe MF is getting an EU box so it will be interesting as to what he says about those. I still think if you ignore some of his most damning comments and go by his scores he is pretty generous. Most get between 8 and 10. Since his scoring system goes to 11 which would include at least one of the Doors 45rpm and Folk Singer I think 8 or 9 for a 45 year old recording on a standard major label reissue is pretty good. Actualy goes over the top about SPLHCB even though the EQ is said to be quite revisionist.

He obviously had problems with the White Album and others have posted similar results. I'm a little perplexed on the varying views of RS as it is from a 16bit source and the CD like comment is what I would expect. In it's previous DMM incarnation it's somewhat disappointing anyway and I can't see how it can be transformed that much. Certainly one I was going to avoid but now I am tempted.

As far as reissues done right I will point you to the new (v.limited apparently) Nick Drake Pink Moon. Although this is a Universal release it was mastered and cut all analogue at Abbey Road where the tapes are. I believe this is the first all analogue cut since the 70's and it realy is superb and a must given the high price of originals. Shows Abbey Road are capable of producing the results taking a purist approach.

Paul.

[Marco]

I believe MF is getting an EU box so it will be interesting as to what he says about those.


Most certainly. What's disappointing is the apparent discrepancy in SQ between the EU and US pressings. That should never have been allowed to happen. There should've been total consistency throughout the whole production run!


I still think if you ignore some of his most damning comments and go by his scores he is pretty generous. Most get between 8 and 10. Since his scoring system goes to 11 which would include at least one of the Doors 45rpm and Folk Singer I think 8 or 9 for a 45 year old recording on a standard major label reissue is pretty good. Actualy goes over the top about SPLHCB even though the EQ is said to be quite revisionist.


Sure, but he gives Rubber Soul a measly 5 out of 10... Something's up there. Trust me, if you heard the album on my system, you'd not be sitting there thinking 'I'd give this a 5 out of 10 for sound quality'!! :nono:

Hey, maybe my system just suits Beatles recordings really well.. Vintage valves, vintage cartridge and vintage Tannoy speakers! ;)


He obviously had problems with the White Album and others have posted similar results. I'm a little perplexed on the varying views of RS as it is from a 16bit source and the CD like comment is what I would expect. In it's previous DMM incarnation it's somewhat disappointing anyway and I can't see how it can be transformed that much. Certainly one I was going to avoid but now I am tempted.


Well, if you can get it sounding as good as I am here, I can't see how you wouldn't like it :)

I'll write-up my thoughts on how the recently re-mastered stuff compares to the originals tomorrow, as I'm hitting the sack soon.

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, having done the comparison between the new re-masters and the originals, the first thing that's immediately obvious is that the original recordings have a rawness and a sense of 'live dynamics', which I've always found appealing, that is lacking in the new stuff, where there is definitely evidence of some 'tailoring' of the sound and the striving for a more 'polished' sonic presentation.

It's as if the rough edges in the original recordings have been gently 'buffed off', which to an extent robs the music of its immediacy and sense of the band jamming live in the studio, getting down 'n' dirty and playing with a smile on their faces. The sound of the new stuff is more akin to as if the band had been invited to play at a posh gig, in new suits, and so are more intent on trying to sound good, than just letting loose and having fun.

Tonally, there is quite a marked difference in the presentation of the respective recordings, with the new stuff sounding distinctly warmer (although definitely not soft), with a richer, but nicely textured bass, compared to the more tonally stark, brighter, tighter sound of the original recordings. Therefore, those who've never signed up to the idea that the original albums sounded great, in a hi-fi sense, should revel in the more 'audiophile acceptable' modern sound of the new re-masters.

In summary, I'd agree with Fremer that if you like the raw, 'dirty', more vibrant sound of the originals, then the less 'in yer face', more polished, presentation of the new re-masters is liable to prove a little disappointing, and so I'd say that if you're a big Beatles fan, and the 'sound' associated with and faithful to their original performances is important to you, then the old stuff is definitely where it's at, so save up and invest now!

However, if you just like the Beatles music and are not fussed about originality and simply want to hear the tunes in a very well produced format, perhaps not likely to own original recordings, or maybe those you have (or other earlier re-issues) are in less than ideal condition, then I can confidently say that the 2012 re-masters will hit the spot, as they sound great, are nicely presented, and well-priced considering what some vinyl re-masters cost of other famous albums.

I'll certainly be adding more of them to my collection, as I like having the choice of different 'takes' on the same music, much like playing the same album, using a different cartridge. It's fun and I'm a big enough Beatles fan to justify the outlay! :exactly:

YMMV.

Marco.

[Audioman]

Thanks Marco. I am certainly in the camp of agreeing that although raw and immediate the original presentation is not perfect. So improvements can be made to give us closer to the master tape - which is in fact what Sean Magee has claimed. I do think that aim is unlikely to have been served as EQ changes where actualy made when transfering to digital and probably more with the CD campaign of 3 years ago in mind. So using the EQ changes and 24/44.1 rather than analogue or 24/192 they have come part of the way only to this aim.

Did you detect a more significant difference in quality when comparing the supposedly 16bit sourced Rubber Soul? e.g flattened perspective and more CD like presentation. Not just Fremers view of the US pressing though people who have only heard on CD (obviously) like it.

Paul.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,

I'll comment later, mate. I was in Liverpool today, so popped into Probe and bought the White Album and Sgt. Pepper... Off to listen to them now! :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Recieved 'Magical Mystery Tour' & 'Sgt Pepper' fantastic re issues in short. Sleeve quality & label printing are A1, time to order the rest i want me thinks..

[Marco]

Nice one, dude. I'm pleased you like them (bit worried you wouldn't)... I love 'em. Just Hard Day's Night and Yellow Sub to get now, as I've got the rest (including Magical Mystery Tour) on 70s reissues and/or originals :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Pleased you both like em , I got Revolver today , I will buy the white album and rubber soul , doesn't matter that my TT is underperforming , got to have these !

[loo]

Hi, I got the box set and love it all, I dont really mind them being from a digital source its just great to be able to buy them all new again presented with such attention to originallity , I have a full set of first pressing mono albums and stereo abbey road and let it be that I inherited from the old man ,so hopefully when I'm gone this box set will be what my kids play as grandads will probably be to valuble :)
regards loo

[Marco]

Been playing Pepper again , and I'm not so sure now ? She's leaving home doesn't sound right , it's like it's mistracking or something ?


I can't enjoy she's leaving home at the moment , its a bit crunchy and the high notes are making me wince.


Soz, dude, yer T/T's defo ill... I'm getting none of that playing the same track on the album here - sounds fab (as does the whole album)! :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Soz, dude, yer T/T's defo ill... I'm getting none of that playing the same track on the album here - sounds fab (as does the whole album)! :)

Marco.

Yeah , time to ditch the techie ! Give in and get a Rega .

[Marco]

Lol...........

Maybe your copy just needs a wee clean? ;)

Marco.

[Barry]

I can't enjoy she's leaving home at the moment , its a bit crunchy and the high notes are making me wince .

:eek:

'She's leaving home' is one of the most moving, heart-wrenching songs ever written (and impressed in vinyl)!

[chris@panteg]

:eek:

'She's leaving home' is one of the most moving, heart-wrenching songs ever written (and impressed in vinyl)!

I know ! It's so important to me to have these albums and that I enjoy them , the Beatles were my1st love , musically and I want these new albums ! I don't enjoy fiddling with TT's , I just want to enjoy the music ...

[Rare Bird]

Pleased you both like em , I got Revolver today , I will buy the white album and rubber soul , doesn't matter that my TT is underperforming , got to have these !

My TT's in bits at the mo so can't actually play them, but as you say i have to have them also.

Only need 'Revolver', Yellow Submarine', 'White Album' 'Abbey Road'..

I gave my mate the last Vinyl reissues from a few years back as these are clearly better quality.

[Marco]

Hi Paul,

Sorry, forgot about this...


Thanks Marco. I am certainly in the camp of agreeing that although raw and immediate the original presentation is not perfect. So improvements can be made to give us closer to the master tape - which is in fact what Sean Magee has claimed.


Indeed, and judging the results, I think to a good extent he's succeeded.


I do think that aim is unlikely to have been served as EQ changes where actualy made when transfering to digital and probably more with the CD campaign of 3 years ago in mind. So using the EQ changes and 24/44.1 rather than analogue or 24/192 they have come part of the way only to this aim.


As I said, not perfect, but to a good extent. I still consider the sound produced on these vinyl re-masters to be better than about 70% of what is produced today on vinyl, 'audiophile' or otherwise, and so way better than average.


Did you detect a more significant difference in quality when comparing the supposedly 16bit sourced Rubber Soul? e.g flattened perspective and more CD like presentation.


Nope - RS sounds fantastic, on my system, and not "flattened" in any way! :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Finally played my new Revolver this morning , played just side 1as I could tell something just isn't right ? So played the 2009 cd , no contest , in fact the cd sounds so much better it's embarrassing , time to strip down the techie ? I dunno ?

[Stratmangler]

Finally played my new Revolver this morning , played just side 1as I could tell something just isn't right ? So played the 2009 cd , no contest , in fact the cd sounds so much better it's embarrassing , time to strip down the techie ? I dunno ?

You have been struggling to get the magic back into your Techie, roughly from the time when you installed the 309.

What's Revolver like on t'other TT?

[chris@panteg]

You have been struggling to get the magic back into your Techie, roughly from the time when you installed the 309.

What's Revolver like on t'other TT?

Hi Chris

Yep , it does seem like that ? The other techie is in the cupboard at the moment, hopefully by the weekend the front room will be decorated and I can set my other system back up , might be easier to compare then .

It sounds so dull with an over the top bass , plus there is strange hint of mistracking I noticed on the pepper album ? Azimuth maybe or alignment ? I keep fiddling with it and am getting nowhere .

[Marco]

It sounds so dull with an over the top bass...


Jeez, Chris, I feel for ya - that is just *not* how the recording sounds in reality... The complete opposite, in fact!

Remind me, what phono stage, and cables between your phono stage and amp, are you using in your system? For me, to get a sound like that from your Techy, which is so fundamentally wrong, something is badly up other than just the turntable.... :(

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Jeez, Chris, I feel for ya - that is just *not* how the recording sounds in reality... The complete opposite, in fact!

Remind me, what phono stage, and cables between your phono stage and amp, are you using in your system? For me, to get a sound like that from your Techy, which is so fundamentally wrong, something is badly up other than just the turntable.... :(

Marco.

Hi Marco

Thanks for your concern , but before I start.panicking , I think I might try a stylus cleaner or a better one at least than the AT607 bottle and brush , that had no effect alas , I might try the magic dust buster for £20 ?

It does sound like maybe some crud/dirt is stuck on the diamond , think I need to take it off and put my precept back in and take a closer look .

[Marco]

No worries, mate. I really hope you manage to sort it. However, if it is crud on the stylus, it must be pretty bad, so now you know how important owning an RCM is, the use of which would totally remove such a problem! ;)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

I really am clutching at straws perhaps , but it can't be cables , I have the Oyaide to my phono , and an MG1000HD to the Marantz , I think swapping carts is a good start .

I have it set on 100 ohms and gain 70 db , tried a lower gain of 62 db , made no difference , increasing impedance to 1k just sounded strange .

I do/will purchase an RCM , hopefully next year .

[Stratmangler]

I went into HMV on the way home tonite and bought a copy of Revolver on vinyl, and it sounds pretty much the same as the CD release of a few years ago with a few extraneous analogue noises added.

I'm not going to buy any more of the vinyl versions (I bought Rubber Soul t'other week, and it's the same with that).

I'll stick to parking my lardy arse on the sofa and playing the albums via my Squeezebox/M2Tech Evo DAC combo :eyebrows:

If the vinyl doesn't even get close to the CD Chris (@Panteg) then there is certainly something amiss at your end - I hope you pin it down soon.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks Chris , that's the thing , I wish it did sound like the cd lol , something is amiss and I need to sort it , I can't listen to it like this .

[Stratmangler]

I have one of these stylus brushes, and it works well for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ortofon-Carbon-Fibre-Stylus-Cleaning-Brush-/200848387589?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod% 3D150825714565%26ps%3D54

[Rare Bird]

O dear Chris hope you sort the problem out, i can assure you these Beatles Vinyl isshews sound superb.

[chris@panteg]

I have one of these stylus brushes, and it works well for me http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ortofon-Carbon-Fibre-Stylus-Cleaning-Brush-/200848387589?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod% 3D150825714565%26ps%3D54

That works then Chris ? May as well give it a try , if it's not a dirty stylus then :scratch:

[Stratmangler]

That works then Chris ? May as well give it a try , if it's not a dirty stylus then :scratch:

The brush head is very tightly packed carbon fibre strands, so there's sufficient mechanical resistance to shift the grunge on the stylus, yet sufficient give so as not to pull the stylus off the cantilever.
It takes a steady hand and decent illumination when using the brush, but other than that it's as foolproof as it gets :)

[chris@panteg]

Have you seen or heard of the vinyl passion dust buster ? Just wondering which is better , you just pop the stylus on it and off again .

[Stratmangler]

Have you seen or heard of the vinyl passion dust buster ? Just wondering which is better , you just pop the stylus on it and off again .

I think t'other Chris (TGW) mentioned something similar that he uses, which costs pennies, rather that pounds.

Found it http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=367244&postcount=3

[Mr Kipling]

What does the track "Nowhere Man" on Rubber Soul sound like?

I found the re-mastered cd quite surprising, but that particular track didn't happen for me. When the guitar solo comes in it doesn't have the body and contour of sound that my original lp has. The same track is on Yellow Submarine and it sounds the same on the later cd mix which came out with the dvd.

[Rare Bird]

Thats spookey because ive kept back the last re issue on vinyl of 'Yellow Submarine' so i can compare to the new one..

[Stratmangler]

What does the track "Nowhere Man" on Rubber Soul sound like?

I found the re-mastered cd quite surprising, but that particular track didn't happen for me. When the guitar solo comes in it doesn't have the body and contour of sound that my original lp has. The same track is on Yellow Submarine and it sounds the same on the later mix which came out with the dvd.

What is your reference LP?
Is it a mono or a stereo release, and from what year?

[Mr Kipling]

It's a stereo issue from the early '70s.

[Stratmangler]

It's a stereo issue from the early '70s.

That mix should be on the Mono CD issue then.
Rubber Soul in mono also had the original stereo mixes on the same CD.

[Mr Kipling]

Yes, you're right in saying the re-mastered mono cd also contains the stereo mix, but it's George Martin's '80s re-mix.

I'm just wondering if the track "happens" on the new lp?

[Stratmangler]

Yes, you're right in saying the re-mastered mono cd also contains the stereo mix, but it's George Martin's '80s re-mix.

I'm just wondering if the track "happens" on the new lp?

T'aint the '80s remix...


No bonus tracks or alternative mixes are included, with two exceptions. George Martin's 1980s stereo mixes for Help! and Rubber Soul have now become the standard versions; the 1965 stereo mixes have been included as extra tracks in the Beatles In Mono box set.

Couldn't tell you if it "happens".
It probably won't, as it's from George Martins '80s remix.

[Mr Kipling]

Fair enough, Chris.

I don't have either the mono or stereo boxsets and was just repeating what I've read elsewhere.

Will that do for you?

[Stratmangler]

All the stereo versions pale compared to the mono mix.

[The Black Adder]

I feel that the investment you put in to buying a really good original copy simply can't be beat.

But... the prices are simply staggering in regards to version, state of the record, complete pack and the serial number. A 0000010 went for over 10k not so long back.

Apparently John Lennon had #01 with the rest of the band and Aspinal etc. With that kind of provenance the first copy must be worth 100k+

Amazingly cool.

[The Black Adder]

All the stereo versions pale compared to the mono mix.

I have to agree... The stereo versions are great but the mono mixes are simply amazing.

My favorite stereo version is The White Album. You can't beat the jet plane landing at the start... Although I'm too young to remember my father said everyone thought that was amazing at the time.

[Mr Kipling]

All the stereo versions pale compared to the mono mix.

Well, Chris, that's your view, and, to be fair, the most commonly held one, or so I've read. Not every one agrees with it, however. I do have the remastered mono version of "With The Beatles" and, given the choice, I'd rather listen to the stereo version. But that's just me.

I had thought of asking if someone with the mono boxset might consider making a copy of "A Hard Day's Night", just to hear it and decide if I'm deaf or not.

[chris@panteg]

O dear Chris hope you sort the problem out, i can assure you these Beatles Vinyl isshews sound superb.

Thanks Andre , I'm sure they are , I'm pretty certain now it's not a dirty stylus or set up but something else ?

[Stratmangler]

I'm not going to buy any more of the vinyl versions (I bought Rubber Soul t'other week, and it's the same with that).

I'll stick to parking my lardy arse on the sofa and playing the albums via my Squeezebox/M2Tech Evo DAC combo :eyebrows:

I might well be retracting this comment - since changing cartridges I've realised that my DNM Reson is in need of a replacement stylus at least, which in reality means that I need to send it off for running repairs, as a new stylus assembly is getting to be as rare as rocking horse poo :eek:

These vinyl remasters sound excellent :)

[Audioman]

I might well be retracting this comment - since changing cartridges I've realised that my DNM Reson is in need of a replacement stylus at least, which in reality means that I need to send it off for running repairs, as a new stylus assembly is getting to be as rare as rocking horse poo :eek:

These vinyl remasters sound excellent :)

Isn't this based on a Goldring? - Would have thought 1042 stylus would fit.

I found these new masters are better sounding than they should be. Certainly improved bass and warmth. My reservations re lack of top end and air are receeding though I still think using 24/192 or all analogue would have produced even better results. So far tried 4 titles. Pepper is somewhat revisionist and reveals previously unoticed detail but is being exchanged due to swoosh swoosh through ADITL. Also have Revolver, MMT and Past Masters. Later is the best sounding allowing for the varying age of the recordings and is a big upgrade on the 1988 version. Awaiting Pepper replacement and Abbey Road + Let It Be.

[Stratmangler]

Isn't this based on a Goldring? - Would have thought 1042 stylus would fit.

Been there, tried it, it didn't work because the 1042 stylus assembly isn't as good as the proper one for the DNM.

[Audioman]

Been there, tried it, it didn't work because the 1042 stylus assembly isn't as good as the proper one for the DNM.

Didn't work mechanicaly or not to your taste ?

[Stratmangler]

Didn't work mechanicaly or not to your taste ?

It sounded shite in comparison :rolleyes:

My experience is pretty much the same as found here http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/74/743309.html

[Marco]

Pepper is somewhat revisionist and reveals previously unoticed detail but is being exchanged due to swoosh swoosh through ADITL.

Could I have that again in English, please? :)


I found these new masters are better sounding than they should be.

Excellent - I told you!

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

Just ordered the box set.
http://www.whatrecords.co.uk/items/58027.htm
Anyone interested in a couple of twice played Beatles albums (Rubber Soul & Revolver)?
Open to offers...

[Marco]

I'll swap you for a "swoosh swoosh through ADITL". I'm reliably informed it's painless.

Marco.

[Audioman]

It sounded shite in comparison :rolleyes:

My experience is pretty much the same as found here http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/74/743309.html

Sounds like the changes are more than skin deep and they are mechanicaly incompatible. The actual 1042 is very good sounding IMO though i know others disagree.

[Rare Bird]

Anyone interested in a couple of twice played Beatles albums (Rubber Soul & Revolver)?
Open to offers...

Wang em on ere Chris im sure someone will have em

http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=49

[Marco]

Paul, could you explain what a ""swoosh swoosh through ADITL" is, Paul? I didn't ask you the question for it to be ignored.

I genuinely want to know - cheers!

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

Sounds like the changes are more than skin deep and they are mechanicaly incompatible. The actual 1042 is very good sounding IMO though i know others disagree.

I also have a 1042, and I've always managed to get a decent sound from it.
It's just not as good as the Reson Reca.

[Stratmangler]

Paul, could you explain what a ""swoosh swoosh through ADITL" is, Paul? I didn't ask you the question for it to be ignored.

I genuinely want to know - cheers!

Marco.

Swoosh, swoosh sounds like a pressing fault or tracing noise, and ADITL = A Day In The Life :)

[Marco]

Hahaha... Jeezuz, I thought "ADITL" was some kind of digital gizmo, involved in the recording digital mastering process!! :D

I wish folk would just spit things out properly, instead of using lazy abbreviations, which to some, aren't immediately obvious! ;)

I'll have to go and listen for this "swoosh, swoosh" on said recording :)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Marco. The Noise is a pressing fault - sounds like vinyl fill to me but it is not visible. As I said ordered the replacement copy. If you've got a problem with acronyms you should try SH forum. Can be a challenge To work some out I know - just testing your Beatles knowledge :).

Paul.

[The Black Adder]

A sgt. peppers went on ebay recently.. A seller put a sample of the record on the sale, which is great but the guy was selling it as Nr.Mint with no problems in the sound. Someone bought it for daft money as the said 'swoosh swoosh' on 'A day in a life' was more than annoying, well to me anyway.

Original Sgt. Peppers suffer from track wear distortion on the end side two and also on 'She's leaving Home' in Mccartney's high notes.

[Audioman]

A sgt. peppers went on ebay recently.. A seller put a sample of the record on the sale, which is great but the guy was selling it as Nr.Mint with no problems in the sound. Someone bought it for daft money as the said 'swoosh swoosh' on 'A day in a life' was more than annoying, well to me anyway.

Original Sgt. Peppers suffer from track wear distortion on the end side two and also on 'She's leaving Home' in Mccartney's high notes.

Tip - buy a 1 box (1969) pressing which uses first press stampers - much cheaper and likely to be played less and on old goove grinders.

[Marco]

Marco. The Noise is a pressing fault - sounds like vinyl fill to me but it is not visible. As I said ordered the replacement copy. If you've got a problem with acronyms you should try SH forum. Can be a challenge To work some out I know - just testing your Beatles knowledge :).


Lol - I'll see if I can hear the suggested pressing fault on my copy.

As for acronyms, a) I don't read the SH forum, and b) I'm someone who will always type precisely what I mean, as I like to ensure that 100% of the people reading my posts know exactly what it is I'm referring to!

Playing guessing games doesn't interest me, mate...

As for knowledge, I just listen to the songs and enjoy the music. I'm an uncomplicated chap. Memorising song titles, as acronyms, is way too geeky! ;)

Marco.

[seoirse2002]

'Sgt Peppers'
'White Album' (The Beatles)
'Abbey Road'

'Magical Mystery'
'Yellow Sub'

fuzzies for me


Hi Guys,
Thinking of buying the new white album to replace my second pressing original....Im sure some of you have it...any comparisons? ...worth buying? or should I trawl ebay for a similar version to the one I have....I see some of them going cheaper because no pics, tatty cover etc, but I have all that so just looking for a better copy....:cool:

[johnB]

The full Stereo Box set has just gone on-sale on Pop-Market for £212, including free delivery.....that's enough for me to invest.

http://www.popmarket.com/details/27887283?feature_id=27887558

Cheers
John

[Stratmangler]

The full Stereo Box set has just gone on-sale on Pop-Market for £212, including free delivery.....that's enough for me to invest.

http://www.popmarket.com/details/27887283?feature_id=27887558

Cheers
John

What's the cost by the time HMRC and the delivery agent have taken their cut?
Another £40, maybe?

[johnB]

True...I'll let you know Chris:)

[Rare Bird]

I just need the White album now, the price is a bit OTT but needs must i suppose.

[The Grand Wazoo]

If you've got a problem with acronyms you should try SH forum.

Am I the only one who sees the problem with this sentence?!?!

[seoirse2002]

Hi Guys,
Thinking of buying the new white album to replace my second pressing original....Im sure some of you have it...any comparisons? ...worth buying? or should I trawl ebay for a similar version to the one I have....I see some of them going cheaper because no pics, tatty cover etc, but I have all that so just looking for a better copy....:cool:

or should I just buy one of the new remasters?...who has it? how does it compare?

[seoirse2002]

or should I just buy one of the new remasters?...who has it? how does it compare?


ooooops....its late and I should have read all the posts....doesent sound like anyone is too fond of the new white album so maybe Ill stick with what Ive got:cool:

[The Black Adder]

The Beatles don't need to be re-mastered. If they just stop fecking about and release them again cut directly from the masters everyone will be happy.

Like ladies face cream, re-mastering is nonsense marketing because the original can't be made better than it already is.

[Audioman]

Lol - I'll see if I can hear the suggested pressing fault on my copy.

Marco.

Re. SPLHCB - Second copy is fine so fortunately this is a 'one off' or may affect a limited number of copies.

[Stratmangler]

Am I the only one who sees the problem with this sentence?!?!

Half the feckers on here can't spell lose, so frequently loose :doh: things.
Does it really matter?
And no, it wasn't lost on me ;)

[Audioman]

The Beatles don't need to be re-mastered. If they just stop fecking about and release them again cut directly from the masters everyone will be happy.

Like ladies face cream, re-mastering is nonsense marketing because the original can't be made better than it already is.

I've recently bought 2 vinyl reissues that back this up. Firstly Nick Drake Pink Moon also cut at Abbey Road. Secondly Love Forever Changes cut from original analogue tape by Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman mastering.

Based on this a straight all analogue cut would likely improve on original copies. The new versions are actualy pretty good and improve on even earlier analogue versions in some respects. However some tracks don't sound quite right and there is a subtle loss of air and space. I think we are only hearing about 80% of the potential of these recordings.

I don't understand why analogue copies were not made for cutting which would safeguard the original tapes. When I brought this up on the Hoffman forum Sean Magee suggested it introduces more complications incl choice of tape. I think this may point to the problem with releasing any Beatles material. It's deemed so important that a large comittee has to make all the decisions and obviously analogue issues were an afterthought when the reissue project started some years ago.

Let's hope someone has the sense to do a 45th anniversary Abbey Road in 2014 that is sourced from the Original tapes as I think there is a lot more quality to be heard from this title. The 45th Anniversary Forever Changes is Stellar !

Paul.

[Rare Bird]

Love Forever Changes cut from original analogue tape by Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman mastering.


Paul:
Where did you buy this from please?

[seoirse2002]

The Beatles don't need to be re-mastered. If they just stop fecking about and release them again cut directly from the masters everyone will be happy.

Like ladies face cream, re-mastering is nonsense marketing because the original can't be made better than it already is.


hmmmm.... Can't say I agree with you about ladies facecream....same girl...just a bit of facecream and such:lol:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=122&pictureid=987

[Audioman]

Paul:
Where did you buy this from please?

Diverse Vinyl.

[The Black Adder]

hmmmm.... Can't say I agree with you about ladies facecream....same girl...just a bit of facecream and such:lol:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=122&pictureid=987

LOL..

[Mr Kipling]

I presume that mono versions will be available at some point.

I'm still wondering about the "limited edition" cd box set. I thought it was said to be limited to 10,000 copies, but it still apqears to be available, three years after it's launch.

[johnB]

What's the cost by the time HMRC and the delivery agent have taken their cut?
Another £40, maybe?

Box set arrived from PopMarket today £212 delivered.....nothing else:)
It weighs a ton and looks gorgeous.

John

[Rare Bird]

My 'White album' arrived but i don't have a turntable at the min to check it out

:(

[Stratmangler]

Box set arrived from PopMarket today £212 delivered.....nothing else:)
It weighs a ton and looks gorgeous.

John

That's excellent.
The book is astonishingly well done, and the whole set does have special written all over it.

What label are the early albums on?
Just a point of curiousity, as on the other side of the pond they were on Capitol Records.
With the UK set they're on Parlophone, all the way up to Magical Mystery Tour, which is on Capitol (correctly as it happens, as MMT in the UK was an EP, and the album only came out in the States).

[Marco]

Listening to the 'White Album' now, and SQ-wise, it's very good indeed - in fact perhaps the best I've heard so far from the new re-masters (very crisp and dynamic sounding, lacking the slightly 'warm tone' of some of the other releases)... The most important thing, however, is that the music is utterly ace! :)

Marco.

[brian2957]

Must be nice to listen to music at a decent level at this time in the morning Marco. Hope you and everyone else had a good one BTW.

[Marco]

Cheers, matey. We did indeed - hope you guys had a good one, too! :cool:

I'm listening downstairs in the lounge, on the Celestion 66s, at a very low level, whilst Del is in bed upstairs. Fortunately, the 66s are very open and dynamic sounding at low volume levels, so I can hear deep into the musical mix, without having to crank up the sound :)

I also find that good valve equipment helps in that respect, as it injects so much convincing 'presence' into the sonic presentation, making information in recorded music sound effortlessly lifelike and real, even at very modest listening levels.

Marco.

[brian2957]

I was able to do that in a past house Marco , but not the one I'm in just now . I'm lucky enough to have a separate listening room . Thin walls though ,and I don't like headphones.

[johnB]

Popmarket have the full box set on offer for the next 8 hours for £212 delivered....

[Audioman]

Listening to the 'White Album' now, and SQ-wise, it's very good indeed - in fact perhaps the best I've heard so far from the new re-masters (very crisp and dynamic sounding, lacking the slightly 'warm tone' of some of the other releases)... The most important thing, however, is that the music is utterly ace! :)

Marco.

I've got it on order and have a low stamper 70's repress with 3 sides tube cut to compare. Will be able to give a definitive opinion then. This title has received most criticism apart from the 16bit sourced remixes of Help and Rubber Soul.

Paul.

[chris@panteg]

Listening to the 'White Album' now, and SQ-wise, it's very good indeed - in fact perhaps the best I've heard so far from the new re-masters (very crisp and dynamic sounding, lacking the slightly 'warm tone' of some of the other releases)... The most important thing, however, is that the music is utterly ace! :)

Marco.

Very helpful Marco , I'm going to order it and a few more :)

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


I've got it on order and have a low stamper 70's repress with 3 sides tube cut to compare. Will be able to give a definitive opinion then. This title has received most criticism apart from the 16bit sourced remixes of Help and Rubber Soul.


No worries. Listening to the album, and how good it sounds here, I can't understand why it would receive any form of harsh criticism. Nothing is absolutely perfect, of course, but this album sounds superb on my system - no question - as indeed do all of the other new Beatles vinyl re-masters I've bought recently.


Very helpful Marco , I'm going to order it and a few more.


Nice one, Chris. I don't think you'll regret it! :)

Marco.

[Pierre De Grenoble]

I only picked up Rubber Soul, Revolver & Pepper, and only have the originals and routine CD issues to compare with..
The new Pepper brings a huge smile to the ears when I spin it, and I look forward to picking up the Mono..
But I Haven't dared to play them on my old 60's Dansette Bermuda (MK II) and peeps tend to forget that it was equipment of this ilk that "pop" albums were mastered to sound good on... :sofa:

[Mr Kipling]

Anyone know anything about DMM (Direct Metal Mastering) versions that came out in the late '80s?

[Mr Kipling]

Right people, you can't say you need more time to come to a decision, how do the remasters compare to originals?


Seem reasonably cheap at Amazon at the moment.

[The Barbarian]

I'll be putting my Re-Master LP's up for sale soon, most aint even been played..

[Mr Kipling]

But - !!?!!WHY!!?!!

What will selling them achieve for you?

[The Barbarian]

To buy the old 100% analogue editions.

[Mr Kipling]

Well, fair enough. Can't really argue with that. Think I'll try With The Beatles, just to see/hear.