View Full Version : Garrard 301 Speed Tweak - no drugs involved
Do you have Garrard 301 which runs fast? 401s can suffer this too but have a greater range of speed adjustment. One theory is that the magnet on the brake weakens over the decades. I've tried all sorts to get my 301 to not run fast including a special pulley wheel and fridge magnets on the brake (too weak), I still needed the speed control set almost to fully -ve.
I now have the speed control just 2 graduations from central. I've added mega-powerful neodymium disc magnets to the top to the Garrard brake, it's not easy to do this to the underside so I haven't. I added 6 discs to the top, any more do not confer any additional speed change.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e359/cmeakins/301mags.jpg
Here's what I used:
http://www.first4magnets.com/f308---12mm-dia-x-1mm-thick-n42-neodymium-magnet---055kg-pull-x20-a14y-7-p.asp
You could use F312 instead.
Lionheart
02-11-2012, 20:10
Thanks for sharing the info, I've tried all manner of ways to slow 301's down with limited joy, by the sound of it these powerful little magnets seem the amswer, Cheers
I too have struggled with this for ages. Speed was just ok but I didn't like having the speed control right at it's end stop. Finally I had splash out a tenner on magnets and it worked. Phew!
Have you lot been "upgrading" your bearings? The 301 and 401 are supposed to have this drag and I believe this is explained in the articles in the library.
At the time, if an end user had a deck which ran at slightly the wrong speed, they would supply a specially turned pulley that corrected it. I'm sure a very accurate strobe (not mains driven), and some wet-n-dry should help sort all three speeds to allow adjustment without braking the motor further (thinking of a TD124 belonging to PFM's Tony L making noises atributable to the eddy current brake).
Have you lot been "upgrading" your bearings? The 301 and 401 are supposed to have this drag and I believe this is explained in the articles in the library.
At the time, if an end user had a deck which ran at slightly the wrong speed, they would supply a specially turned pulley that corrected it. I'm sure a very accurate strobe (not mains driven), and some wet-n-dry should help sort all three speeds to allow adjustment without braking the motor further (thinking of a TD124 belonging to PFM's Tony L making noises atributable to the eddy current brake).
My bearing has been modified (I wish I hadn't done it) but this made zero difference to speed. I plan on trying one of Dom's bearings soon. The pulley I have was supposed to slow the platter, it did a fraction but nowhere near enough. I wouldn't use wet 'n dry of the pulley, this must be really very carefully machined if you are not to induce noise.
If the cause of the speed up is a weakened magnet then all I'm doing is returning the deck to original spec. The eddy brake is a vital part of the Garrard sound, without it it just doesn't sound like a Garrard - at least that's what I found when I slugged the motor with with variac, I had to drop to 180V to get the speed right. I use a good battery strobe BTW.
Fair enough. Have you asked Loricraft of their findings? I only say this because of all the Garrard tweakers out there, Loricraft seem to have access to original knowledge and more, on the way these things were supposed to work - 24/7 continuous running for many years in broadcast studios was the aim I understand.
I've had numerous conversations with Terry over the years. Also PerfectSound (well connected with Loricraft) do pulleys to change the speed, but not by enough IME. Fast 301s are really very common, there are no conclusive theories. One thing is for sure, with the 401 Garrard introduced a much greater range of speed variation because a very small speed error on the 301 needed a large movement of the control knob. Hence the extra adjustment option internally on the 401.
Ah, thanks :) I am aware of the "extra" fine adjustment on the 401..
Lionheart
02-11-2012, 21:41
I've tried everything aside changing the pulley to slow mine down, I've tried another idler wheel that runs bang on centre, cleaned and polished the platter rim, fitted an after market bearing, used a thicker grade bearing oil but nothing seems to slow the speed, I might add though it makes no difference to the performance of the 301 and is as steady as a rock with no deviation in speed.......It's just annoying to me that it's not as should be.
How about PSU with some adjustment option for the speed? I know there are some available already commercially like the ones Terry is having. Then there are apparently also some DIY options for the frequency converter to the AC motor..
Changing the freq or the shape of the supposed sine wave would probably be fine soundwise whereas changing the voltage is a waste of time. I'm the same as John (Lionheart) in that I could get the speed correct but I didn't like it so far to one extreme of the adjustment knob. It' s fine now and sounds perfectly fine too. I must have the same braking force with my extra magnets as I had before as the speed is the same but the brake angle is different.
Voltage does not affect the speed naturally but based on my own experiences it has other kind of impact to the sound.
When driving 301/401s with low voltage and no brake there is not that much momentum and the best bunch/groove/whatever is lost and in some sense the sonic character gets closer to belt driven deck. However the sound is bit more open and has that special finesse this way. Then with full voltage setting the Garrard motor has huge momentum in use and with that brake enabled it makes the difference. The sound is really powerful and has the timing spot on, eventhou perhaps the best finesse will be lost. There has been some speculation that this is because of the constant speed control of idlers and the stylus drag coming non-issue with this kind of brake implementation but that's perhaps another thing.. ;)
I prefer the middle solution with the voltage, so I'm not using everything my PSU can deliver. Also the brake is not used as much as a stock. This gives nice and balanced sonic character.
sq225917
03-11-2012, 08:45
Applying or increasing the eddy break increases the load on the motor and this has the effect of compressing the lines of magnetic flux inside the motor itself, this smooths out any cogging effects from the motor (they do exist even on a shaded pole motor). You can achieve a similar effect by increasing the drag at the bearing with 'much' more viscous oil, but to a lesser extent.
I've used Castrol gear oil, 80W90. this slowed the platter down to the tune of about one graduation on the control knob so it helps but it's at the margins. I tended to prefer 80W90 to stuff like Mobil 1 but everyone has their preferences.
Gear oil contains sulphur, do not use it if your bearing is Bronze/Brass etc...IE any 'yellow' metal, it will etch and eat at the bearing. You can get high viscosity synthetic oil from Ebay, Simon put me onto it a while back, you may need 10K CST or more.
Garrards use naff looking steel bands. Good advice though, thanks!
Sintered steel in the case of some Garrards, and sintered bronze in others. Loads of rubbish talked on the Slate Audio site about this, hence my recommendations about Loricraft.
Dave, I think you mean Slatedeck as was.....and is no more.
I heard some time ago they're planning to restart the business. Dunno if that is true thou..
Darren is still doing a few small things I believe. It seems he let the rights to the name lapse and I'm advised one Dave Cawley bought the rights........
Ammonite Audio
03-11-2012, 17:05
Changing the freq or the shape of the supposed sine wave would probably be fine soundwise whereas changing the voltage is a waste of time. I'm the same as John (Lionheart) in that I could get the speed correct but I didn't like it so far to one extreme of the adjustment knob. It' s fine now and sounds perfectly fine too. I must have the same braking force with my extra magnets as I had before as the speed is the same but the brake angle is different.
My Martin Bastin PSU is essentially the same as the one that he does for Garrards, and allows both voltage and frequency to be adjusted, both of which have an effect on the motor speed. On the Thorens, it's easy to find a combination of voltage and frequency that completely obviates the need for any eddy braking - I'm sure it's the same for a 301.
My Martin Bastin PSU is essentially the same as the one that he does for Garrards, and allows both voltage and frequency to be adjusted, both of which have an effect on the motor speed. On the Thorens, it's easy to find a combination of voltage and frequency that completely obviates the need for any eddy braking - I'm sure it's the same for a 301.
I've heard Garrards operated like this, they sounded fine but they don't sound like Garrards, the eddy brake is part of their magic. I run 2 decks, the Salvation is my main deck, I keep the 301 to give me a different sound when I want it. If what's wanted is a much more neutral sound then by all means ditch the eddy brake.
^ Seconded.
Even with the PSU I haven't ditched the eddy brake, that is very important part of the sound you can get from Garrards.
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