Wanted cheap/free TT

[alcarmichael]

I'm looking for a turntable to use for record cleaning purposes. The motor serviceable and driving the platter is preferential.

[spendorman]

One with a fair bit of torque may be an idea, an idler drive? Perhaps a Garrard SP25 sort of thing?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Just to clarify the above.....

One without a fair bit lot of torque may would be be an bad idea.

[Mr Kipling]

I'll have a pair of Proac Tablets and Audio Research SP 8, if there's any going!

[Marco]

I'm looking for a turntable to use for record cleaning purposes. The motor serviceable and driving the platter is preferential.

Hi Alex,

I may have an old Technics direct-drive T/T that would do the job nicely. I'll have a look later and let you know. It would be cheap (notwithstanding the cost of shipping) :)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

since things are going free can anyone give me an EMT 'XSD' Headshell free of charge :eyebrows:

[Audio Al]

Put me down for a pair of usher's like Harry's please :)

[Rare Bird]

I'll have a Leak 'Stereo 20' as a spare anyone :lol:

[Barry]

since things are going free can anyone give me an EMT 'XSD' Headshell free of charge :eyebrows:

Why would you want an EMT XSD headshell André?

[Rare Bird]

Don't ask :lol:

[Barry]

Don't ask :lol:

Aw go on - as an EMT enthusiast I'm intrigued.

Whilst empty EMT shells (EMT TSD-G) occasionally appear on eBay, they are expensive (~ £150). Empty extended spigot EMT headshells are even rarer, and because of that more expensive.

[Mr Kipling]

I'll settle for a pair of Stax Lambdas.

15" pepper-pot alloys anyone?

[alcarmichael]

Hi Alex,

I may have an old Technics direct-drive T/T that would do the job nicely. I'll have a look later and let you know. It would be cheap (notwithstanding the cost of shipping) :)

Marco.

Excellent, thank you Marco.

Sorry for the late reply, I didn't get any email notifications through. Have just come to check and update the thread :)

[alcarmichael]

Just to clarify the above.....

One without a fair bit lot of torque may would be be an bad idea.

Not for what I have in mind:-

XJsAeQehmQQ

[The Grand Wazoo]

Ah, OK.
Good luck with that then.

I wouldn't recommend that one myself, but good luck all the same.

[alcarmichael]

Why wouldn't you recommend it? Have you had bad experiences with this method?

It seems to work perfectly well in that youtube video.

[Rare Bird]

No thanks to that idea..

[The Grand Wazoo]

It takes a very long time.
It's expensive.
It can be fiddly.
It can knacker your records.
It's questionable as to whether it cleans them properly.

Apart from that, it's fine!

Yes, I tried it about twenty five years ago, both with glue and with some gunk sold specifically for the purpose.

If you own, or are likely to own more than about 400 records, then you should save your money for a proper vacuum RCM - there is no substitute for doing the job right and it will make your stylus last longer.

[alcarmichael]

It takes a very long time.
It's expensive. Seems very cheap to me. Yet you suggest I buy an RCM?
It can be fiddly. I'm very skilled ;)
It can knacker your records. How?
It's questionable as to whether it cleans them properly. Seems to work perfectly fine on that video.

Apart from that, it's fine!

Yes, I tried it about twenty five years ago, both with glue and with some gunk sold specifically for the purpose.

If you own, or are likely to own more than about 400 records, then you should save your money for a proper vacuum RCM - there is no substitute for doing the job right and it will make your stylus last longer.

I take it you weren't very successful with your attempt?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Actually, I was fairly successful but I value my time and my records rather more than an apparent saving in cost.
I say apparent because time after time when this subject comes up, people get terribly confused between price and cost.
An RCM is a pricey item, yes.
But the cost of it is peanuts in comparison to the benefits and actually far cheaper than all of the much touted 'cheap' dodges.


If you have several hundred lp's, how much glue do you think you'll need to clean them each, just once? And how long do you think it will take to clean both sides of each of them, given that the video above lasts for over 7 minutes? The guy in the video did one side in 4 minutes and it took three and a half hours for it to dry. (I sorted your link out for you, by the way).
Now do what do you reckon that'll cost you in glue? The pot he's using is 4 fl. oz - £4.63 from Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000Q3KHCM/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000TJEL70&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1E3QWGJZKFGKMZYEJJKW).

I don't reckon he gets more than three or four records out of one of those (both sides). Let's say 5 records to be generous. 93 pence per record. If we say an RCM costs about £400, you'd have paid for it in the cost of glue after cleaning 432 records. The fluid for an RCM is an almost irrelevant cost per record if you mix your own.

Are you happy poking about on the playing surface with your fingernail to get the bits off that don't come easily? (I have one record that still has bits I can't remove even after all this time - Live Dates II by Wishbone Ash, as it happens. I played it just the other night!)

However, if you'd spent that cash on the machine, you'd not have exposed your discs to the fingernails. Most importantly, you've paid for the machine & you can clean your records as many times as you want. With glue, you have to pay out another 400 quid.


Now think about what your time is worth. It'll take you 196 days working in 8 hour shifts to clean those 432 discs with glue. Less than 4 days with the RCM at 2 minutes per side.
How many records will you treat before you decide it's too much of a faff?

Why do you think RCM's almost never become available on the secondhand market? It's because everyone who buys one soon realises that it's the best investment they could ever make with regard to record care.

Still think it's cheap?

[alcarmichael]

For me I think it's cheap yes, I do understand your point and I'm sure in the future I will purchase an RCM. I'm very new into vinyl though and currently have less than 30 records.

Your cleaning times suggest I must stand and watch the glue dry. I intend to do other things during the curing time, like yourself, my time is far too important to waste watching glue dry.

He has now changed the glue he uses - I read all of the comments before deciding to attempt this method. Titebond II is apparently much better suited to the task.

This leaves me the removing of glue residue as the only current possible negative. If I do come across this problem I'll try using some thing softer than the vinyl to remove the remaining bits. A paint brush perhaps?

I have my glue, now I just require a second turntable to use for the process, I did win one on eBay :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181005250785?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

But the seller has gone quiet on me, I think he wanted more and is just ignoring me. He was quick to reply before the purchase.

I'm still looking for another turntable, wish me luck. In both the hunt of a very cheap turntable and the glue cleaning process. :)

[Macca]

I have used the gunk method - check out my thread here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9753&highlight=vinyl+revirginizer

it does work - but as Chris says it is time comsuming, you need to get a prodcution line going and it requires space. You don't need a turntable to apply the stuff, although it does look clever in the video. I wouldn't bother trying to source one for this job, frankly.

I was quite impressed by the results so went out and bought a proper RCM which is not only a hell of a lot quicker is also considerably more effective.

[The Grand Wazoo]

As I said earlier, good luck with it.

[chelsea]

I'd personally save up and get an rcm
Or one of those cheap baths to start with.

Cleaning records is pretty boring.

I can clean about 20 in an hour...if i could be arsed to do that many in one go.

[alcarmichael]

I'd personally save up and get an rcm
Or one of those cheap baths to start with.

Cleaning records is pretty boring.

I can clean about 20 in an hour...if i could be arsed to do that many in one go.


As I said earlier, I'm sure in time I will get myself an RCM. For the time being though, with a record collection of >30, I think £500 on something to clean them is excessive!

[Macca]

But having an RCM means you can buy cheap second hand records from clearance bins and charity shops for 50p or a quid a go and clean them up like new. What is that saving you over buying re-issues at £25 a pop? I've expanded my vinyl collection massively for next to nothing since getting a Moth. Anyway, if you shop about a little you will get one closer to £400 than £500.

[chelsea]

Think the okki is less than £400.

[alcarmichael]

But having an RCM means you can buy cheap second hand records from clearance bins and charity shops for 50p or a quid a go and clean them up like new. What is that saving you over buying re-issues at £25 a pop? I've expanded my vinyl collection massively for next to nothing since getting a Moth. Anyway, if you shop about a little you will get one closer to £400 than £500.

I've just read that full thread of yours. It seems almost certain I'm going to follow in your footsteps. I've already bought the glue now so I may as well give it a go. If not using a turntable to apply the glue like in that youtube clip I posted, did you simply smear the glue around a stationary record?

I've heard perfectly clean records which sound amazing, I've also heard mine :( even the brand new ones need sorting.

[Macca]

Yes just smear it on with your fingers, don't skimp on it as it will not all come off in one complete 'skin' once dry if you try to spread it too thin. A little card or paper slip embedded in the edge as a tagger will make it easier to peel off later. I had no problem with bits left on the records afterwards. Make sure the place where you are drying them is very well ventilated as there will be a lot of nasty fumes.

[Audio Al]

Come on gents

Let the man have a go with glue , we all live and learn ;)

[alcarmichael]

Not many positive comments on this method.

I've just found this quote during further research :-

"Ive got a Keith Monks professional cleaning machine, probably the best ever made for commercial use. I have a particular record that is ultra rare and was ultra dirty! I cleaned it 5 times on the machine and thought the improvement was good. I then gave it a coat of PVA wood glue,let it dry and peeled it off, I then cleaned it again on the machine. Amazing! No surface noise! No clicks and pops! ,probably as good as it gets! I will certainly use this method again - if the record warrants it that is! It IS messy! It IS slow! but it works so bloody well!"

Taken from this thread (http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=320.0)

[alcarmichael]

Well, I got my reply from the seller of the turntable:-

The T/T was up on two other sites "gumtree" and "preloved". On sat morn; I had a bid off one of these sites for £10. Because it was within 12 hours of e-bay finishing you are unable to stop auction. Now, before you made any bid, I put a notice on site which clearly stated that I had received an off site bid for £10. (ER! the clue is in the amount). After that had already been clearly posted, and before you made any bid, you contacted me and asked if I would meet you somewhere along the M40. Assuming that you had read and understood the add ie; that I had already received an offer of £10, and that you were going to make a serious bid,£15+(not £8.80 less than I had already been offered), I replied and said yes could poss: sort something. You also asked how much I wanted for T/T. In that reply I again stated that I had received bid of £10, and for you to consider this when making a bid. So without doubt you were fully aware of facts before you placed your bid! Its not difficult-think of a number above 10. With all this in mind, you offered £1.20 thinking that I would give it to you, and run it down the M40, and not to the guy who had not only bid more than you but also several hours before you. I have raised this with e-bay so they are fully aware, and also concur with me that before placing your bid, that you were fully aware and if you were serious, then you would have made a proper offer. Should any malicious comments be received they have informed me that I can make a reply on your site so I will post the above for all to see.

[The Grand Wazoo]

If it was an auction and if your bid was over a tenner, then it's hardly your fault that no-one else bid you over the tenner.
If he wanted a minimum price he should have taken the opportunity to put that in place when he started the auction by raising the starting price or by placing a reserve.
The terms of Ebay don't allow you to play one sale off against another - you made a contract with him when you won the auction.

[alcarmichael]

Exactly, the sarcastic little bar steward!

Here was my reply:-

Do you understand how an auction works? Just in case you don't I will educate you.

I placed my bid, the amount was for more than the offer you received outside of eBay. Because there was only one other bidder on your turntable who placed their maximum of 0.99 which also happened to be your starting price, I won at the next increment of £1.20. As you have positive feedback I assumed you would already know this but perhaps you're confused?

Yes you did state on your auction page that you've received an offer of £10, you also stated that to be fair to the eBay bidders you would let the auction run. You did so and I won the auction. Because I won the auction you are obligated to sell the turntable to me for the winning bid.

If you do not carry out the obligation to sell the turntable within the rules of eBay, I will leave negative feedback on your eBay page.

I do not believe that eBay concur with you, I am in the right, you are clearly in the wrong. If you doubt me in the slightest please feel free to read the terms and conditions of eBay. It really makes no difference whether you've received an offer from elsewhere or not. There's a reason why you can't withdraw an item for sale with a short period of time to go.


Regards,
Alex

[morris_minor]

A cautionary tale: a mate of mine happily cleaned his vinyl with glue, always getting the same brand. Then one day the dried glue didn't peel off nicely at all. The record was ruined. The only explanation was that the glue formulation had changed, and it was much, er "stickier" . . . :doh:

[alcarmichael]

Bump

[alcarmichael]

:)

[alcarmichael]

2nd time lucky....?

1p (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261129005302?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true)