Diy tt v1.1

[hoopsontoast]

Thought I would start a new thread.

So far, I have a Pioneer Arm:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8473/8127418155_79307a2611_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127418155/)
Pioneer Arm (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127418155/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Its from a Pioneer C-4500 music centre (also a PL-12D and PL51A I believe) It has an effective length of 221mm and accepts aftermarket headshells.

And the Motor, Platter/Bearing and PSU from a Sony TTS-3000.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8128174550_f3a9781601_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8128174550/)
Sony TTS-3000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8128174550/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Idea is to keep it cheap and simple

Idea V1.1:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8127422254_9b645f78ce_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127422254/)
TT V1.1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127422254/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8463/8127393627_0212ff2a33_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127393627/)
TT V1.1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127393627/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8333/8127446739_c3e3b7effa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127446739/)
TT V1.1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127446739/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Basically a 2mm aluminium top plate to mount the bearing, motor and tonearm. I can get these made at work which helps.
There will be a bottom plate too with a plywood cylinder in between for the motor/bearing and tonearm.
I have also put in a decorative plinth to go around it, pure looks.

With the platter:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8324/8127461479_2e095212c0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127461479/)
TT V1.1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8127461479/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

[Tarzan]

:stalks: very nice!

[hoopsontoast]

Cheers, if it looks half as good as the renders I will be happy!

[AlfaGTV]

Will follow this with great interest! Looks very nice so far, elegant and functional!
Regards Mike

[John]

Looks nice I like the modern look

[hoopsontoast]

Any comments on the Pioneer arm? (with a better headshell)
Could I better it for around £100, or would it be better spending the extra later on a cartridge?

[Audio Al]

Why not use what you have and at a later date if your not happy change things then :)

( I would loose the wine glass as the alignment look all wrong to me LOL )

[hoopsontoast]

It was more as I am making the top plate with the distance for that arm, maybe best to add a removable arm plate then for other arms.

[hoopsontoast]

Well managed to pick up a RB300 cheap so will use that :)

[AlfaGTV]

Pretty convinced that would be a considable improvement on the PL-arm!
Keep us posted!

[stupinder]

Always really liked your designs, Hoops. Will follow this closely :-)

[hoopsontoast]

The bits arrived:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8184/8142113694_7f5da9a972_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8142113694/)
Sony TTS-3000 Parts (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8142113694/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8054/8142116102_a5b3f9b31c_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8142116102/)
Sony TTS-3000 Parts (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8142116102/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Really well made, the original cast frame was 5mm thick!
The bearing is lovely and requires a push down for the platter to sit in it properly, pretty air tight.

There is also the PSU (not in the pic) with the 33/off/45 selector and speed variation. This will be housed in a separate enclosure with just the one group of cables going to the motor.

Just need a belt now!

[AlfaGTV]

Didn't realise until now, but my assumption was that the TTS-3000 was an idler drive TT?
I must have got them mixed up...

Still a great thread to follow, and the items looks very tidy!
Regards /Mike

[hoopsontoast]

Nope, a belt drive with servo-driven for the motor I believe.

[sq225917]

The motor looks to be a pretty heavily built AC unit and there's obviously part of a sensor unit on the underside of the platter. Unless you have the other part of the control system that reads that passing sensor there will be no servo-loop in effect. There's nothing hidden out of view under the platter on the end of that wire is there?

How many wires are there to the motor Rob, 4 or 5? It might be that without the servo loop that it runs away uncontrollably. Do you know anything about the motor, input voltage etc?

[AlfaGTV]

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TTS-3000.html

Looks to be a nice donator! ;)

Regards /Mike

[hoopsontoast]

there are 4 wires from the motor. The 4 wires would go onto a terminal thats on the end of the wiring with the PSU. (out of the photo)

I believe its just balancing weights on the platter rather than a sensor.

Service manual here: http://home.versanet.de/~j-schmieding/

[YNWaN]

Yes, those are balance weights. If it does use feedback it will be generated by the motor coils.

[hoopsontoast]

Yes, those are balance weights. If it does use feedback it will be generated by the motor coils.

Yes, after reading the service manual, it seems there is a tone generator driven by the spindle on the motor which is fed back to the Feedback/Servo circuit. There is a simple diagram in there.

[sq225917]

Oooh, that's quite fancy. AC servo controlled DC motor drive.

[AlfaGTV]

So Rob, how's this project coming along?
Im curious!

//Mike

[hoopsontoast]

No news so far, been really busy with work and some other CAD projects so not got the final design done yet with the RB300 arm.

[hoopsontoast]

Some progress on the CAD front:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8206/8238509375_9986cedce8_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8238509375/)
TTS-3000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8238509375/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8238527767_a1ecc106fe_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8238527767/)
TTS-3000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8238527767/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Just the mounting plate and RB300 to 'roughly' get done and I can crack on with the final design.....

[Audio Al]

The images look real :stalks:

WOW I now want to see the real thing :)

Well done

[hoopsontoast]

Cheers, it would look a bit better if I spend a bit more time on them. Will have a crack at the RB300 later!

[AlfaGTV]

Stunning CAD's mate! :eek:
:cool:

[synsei]

That's one hefty looking bearing which is just what the doctor ordered. Nice CAD work btw... ;)

[hoopsontoast]

Yeah it is a pretty heft bearing, 12mm Diameter IIRC. It has an adjustable (screw) bottom on the shaft so you can adjust height around 10mm or so..

[hoopsontoast]

RB300 sort of made up this evening....

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8480/8242810736_f2606cc23b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8242810736/)
Rega RB300 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8242810736/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

[hoopsontoast]

Busy evening... ;)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8207/8243035716_d336085baa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243035716/)
TT 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243035716/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8480/8243035630_295375628b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243035630/)
TT 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243035630/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8063/8242003493_31699cdd1f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8242003493/)
TT 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8242003493/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Still not 100% sure on the motor mounting but getting there!

[hoopsontoast]

With the Plinth:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8210/8243148089_cc35a31d1a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243148089/)
Full Assembly (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243148089/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8244224522_75a83a520b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244224522/)
Full Assembly (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244224522/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8346/8243193471_7c2338769a_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243193471/)
Full Assembly (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8243193471/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

Feet not set yet, might just use cones.

[hoopsontoast]

My idea from last night, the Mk2:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8067/8245545698_c17b26c3b2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8245545698/)
Full 2 Mk2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8245545698/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8244477909_feed77b7b6_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244477909/)
Full 3 Mk2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244477909/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8244478129_eda0d441bf_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244478129/)
Full 1 Mk2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244478129/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

With the motor mounted onto the base (motor housing and plinth a single peice) and isolated through some rubber grommits and then the sorbethane feet on the main assembly of the TT.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8061/8244477803_cf1fe978b2_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244477803/)
Full 4 Mk2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hoopsontoast/8244477803/) by RSdesignUK (http://www.flickr.com/people/hoopsontoast/), on Flickr

[sq225917]

Honestly, you don't want the motor on the same side of the deck as the tonearm is mounted, not for vibration and certainly not for RF.

[hoopsontoast]

Cheers, It occured to me as well when I was putting the motor away last night that it acts as a big magnet!
I will move it over to the other side then :)

[walpurgis]

Top and bottom plates look thin to me. Not providing a very rigid support between the main TT section and arm mount. This area would also be prone to resonating. A thicker top plate at least would help, maybe with a brace to the bottom plate between the arm and TT (just my thoughts).

[nat8808]

My thoughts are, firstly that it's going to take you years to render your whole vinyl collection in a high enough resolution to make the project worthwhile! (or is there a real deck at the end of it? :scratch:) Just teasing..

Secondly, you could place the motor opposite the arm (i.e. furthest away) so that the torque via the belt acts in a line with the arm bearings ala Pink Triangle (on the late PT1s only)/ Funk Firm - see the stereophile Linn modification review for some pics.

And could you get, have cut some ali/honeycomb sheet instead of the thin steel? Would be much stiffer. Or perhaps just carbon fibre might even be more rigid?

[hoopsontoast]

The main driving force is price, so far only spent £100 and that was on the arm. I have some mdf and even some lead sheet for dampening going spare. I can get some 2-3mm sheet aluminum cut which is why I was going to use it.
I will have a look at the PT/FF turntables :)

The main reason for trying to do a lot of CAD work is to set the design rather than making the mistakes in real life ;)

[nat8808]

Thinking about it again, the sheet being up against both the MDF parts means there's not much there to actually resonate, only the little bit across the gap. As long as it's well coupled to the MDF as one solid mass, it's probably not much to worry about, especially with a bit of damping too.

I was only teasing about the amount of CAD - being CAD-ignorant, it would take me probably just as long to do that as make the thing. If you're good at it, it's always a good idea and also gives you a lot of motivation seeing the end product in completion.

Here's the link to the Funk Firm Linn modifications: http://www.thefunkfirm.co.uk/turntable_upgrades/LP12_Upgrade.html go all the way down to "And now...Groove-Scrub." for explaination and photo of their original mods. I guess their whole "motor on the subchassis" doesn't apply to a no-suspended deck (as the whole thing is effectively the subchassis and the hifi stand instead acts as both the plinth and suspension).

[nat8808]

sorry, ply not MDF..

[hoopsontoast]

Thinking about it again, the sheet being up against both the MDF parts means there's not much there to actually resonate, only the little bit across the gap. As long as it's well coupled to the MDF as one solid mass, it's probably not much to worry about, especially with a bit of damping too.

I was only teasing about the amount of CAD - being CAD-ignorant, it would take me probably just as long to do that as make the thing. If you're good at it, it's always a good idea and also gives you a lot of motivation seeing the end product in completion.

Here's the link to the Funk Firm Linn modifications: http://www.thefunkfirm.co.uk/turntable_upgrades/LP12_Upgrade.html go all the way down to "And now...Groove-Scrub." for explaination and photo of their original mods. I guess their whole "motor on the subchassis" doesn't apply to a no-suspended deck (as the whole thing is effectively the subchassis and the hifi stand instead acts as both the plinth and suspension).

Well I would rather make the mistakes in CAD, and these models are only an evenings work so its a lot quicker for me than it is for me to make it over and over again!