XTZ Class AP100 - Equal to an entry level Bryston/suitable for pro-audio?

[king_cosmos]

Hi Everyone.

My first ever thread so please be kind ;)
I've read many reviews of XTZ amps both for the integrated A100 D3 and the aforementioned power amp.

I was wondering whether this amp would be suitable for a pro audio set-up? As in - is the frequency response completely flat?

Basically my brother works at a recording studio and it seems that the industry standard power amp is a Bryston. Bryston are the studio standard for the fact that they are neutral (flat frequency response), high powered and built to last (20yr warranty). He already has a Bryston 2B for his home studio but wanted to upgrade. I recommended him this amp as it seemed to be good value for money but he needed to know whether it is flat.

So just to recap:

Is anyone using the AP100 for mixing in a pro audio set-up?
Has anyone compared it to any Bryston amps?
Has anyone measured the frequency response in a controlled lab environment?

Sorry if my post is a bit mumbled up but would be great to have some input.

Thanks everyone :)

[Reid Malenfant]

While I'm just about 100% sure that the frequency response will indeed be flat from well below 20Hz to well above 20KHz, I'm not sure the XTZ has the power for use in a pro environment.

IIRC they are rated at about 150W rms per channel... While that may appear to be quite a bit, it can soon get chewed up good & proper by a set of inefficient speakers.

In fact, even average sensitivity speakers will still not go that loud with that amount of power up the terminals ;)

[hifi_dave]

One of the main criteria for any 'pro' product is that it should work without a hitch day in and day out. If some numb-nuts pours his beer over it, it should still work. If the speaker terminals are shorted or an incon pulled out it shouldn't go phut and it shouldn't pick up radio if the speaker cables are long.

Then, if it should ever need a repair, it must be repairable quickly and cheaply without having to be taken away.

That's why Bryston, Amcron and H&H etc are used in challenging situations.

[king_cosmos]

Thanks for the response chaps.


While I'm just about 100% sure that the frequency response will indeed be flat from well below 20Hz to well above 20KHz, I'm not sure the XTZ has the power for use in a pro environment.

IIRC they are rated at about 150W rms per channel... While that may appear to be quite a bit, it can soon get chewed up good & proper by a set of inefficient speakers.

In fact, even average sensitivity speakers will still not go that loud with that amount of power up the terminals ;)

So the XTZ would potentially be under powered? Even though his current Bryston is rated at 60w per channel at 8 ohms powering a pair of Proac Studio 100's: 8 ohm 88db
http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/html_files/Speakers.php?Range=Studio&Speaker=Studio100


One of the main criteria for any 'pro' product is that it should work without a hitch day in and day out. If some numb-nuts pours his beer over it, it should still work. If the speaker terminals are shorted or an incon pulled out it shouldn't go phut and it shouldn't pick up radio if the speaker cables are long.

Then, if it should ever need a repair, it must be repairable quickly and cheaply without having to be taken away.

That's why Bryston, Amcron and H&H etc are used in challenging situations.

..with questionable build, hence the relatively cheap price of admission for the power/spec..?

I understand that something has to give for the fact that it's extremely good value for money/cheap for what it is but does that truly mean that it's not good enough in a pro audio environment?

How much better can an entry-level Bryston be?
Are we dismissing the real capabilities/potential that the XTZ has?

I'd just like to clarify that it is for his home studio set-up so loudness I suspect isn't his main concern.. More control and transparency - through clean power.

It's promising news should the XTZ be transparent.

A part of me would like to think that the XTZ has the potential to be a real 'giant killer' but the realist in me is telling me not to be so naive..
I'd like to find out though! ;)

[PaulStewart]

Hi Mem

As the others have said, the reason certain amps have attained industry standard is that they are a) good and B)bulletproof. You haven't said what monitors (speakers) the amp would be driving as this would make a great difference to any recommendations people her might make. If I tell you that in my edit suite the "c" monitors (old realistic Minimus 7s) are driven by an Amcron D-60 that was second hand when I bought it in 1980........ You will see what I mean about bulletproof.

I'll add another pro amp into the mix for you to think about On the "A" monitors (Tannoy Little Reds) we have a Yamaha P-2200 again a battleship of an amp but with a detailed neutral sound.

For all I know, the XTZ may well be the next industry standard, but if you are using the thing in a pro studio environment, can you take a risk on it?

Cheers

paul s

[Reid Malenfant]

I'd just like to clarify that it is for his home studio set-up so loudness I suspect isn't his main concern.. More control and transparency - through clean power.

It's promising news should the XTZ be transparent.

A part of me would like to think that the XTZ has the potential to be a real 'giant killer' but the realist in me is telling me not to be so naive..
I like to find to find out though! ;)
If this is the case, & it won't be driven to stupendously high levels, then the XTC may well be a reasonable choice.

As I'm gathering you are aware, it's a sliding biased class A amp, with quite a lot of class A power.

I was assuming it was going to be used in a studio, a home studio is a different kettle of fish entirely.

There are a good few happy owners of XTZ kit on this forum, hope that helps :)

[king_cosmos]

Hi Mem

As the others have said, the reason certain amps have attained industry standard is that they are a) good and B)bulletproof. You haven't said what monitors (speakers) the amp would be driving as this would make a great difference to any recommendations people her might make. If I tell you that in my edit suite the "c" monitors (old realistic Minimus 7s) are driven by an Amcron D-60 that was second hand when I bought it in 1980........ You will see what I mean about bulletproof.

I'll add another pro amp into the mix for you to think about On the "A" monitors (Tannoy Little Reds) we have a Yamaha P-2200 again a battleship of an amp but with a detailed neutral sound.

For all I know, the XTZ may well be the next industry standard, but if you are using the thing in a pro studio environment, can you take a risk on it?

Cheers

paul s

All valid points Paul. Thank you.
Again I fully appreciate the bulletproof/tank like build of pro audio gear - I have read that the XTZ are built extremely well. Just needed to find out wether it is transparent.

I said before which you may have missed that he will be powering a pair of Proac studio 100's: http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/html_files/Speakers.php?Range=Studio&Speaker=Studio100
and that his current amp is a Bryston 2B rated at 60w pc.

The company offers a 3 week home trial with a full refund should you want to return it - return shipping cost at buyers expense. I guess we'll have to try them out. I'm very intrigued and there's definitely some excitement. Either way it'll be good to know for sure. :)

[king_cosmos]

If this is the case, & it won't be driven to stupendously high levels, then the XTC may well be a reasonable choice.

As I'm gathering you are aware, it's a sliding biased class A amp, with quite a lot of class A power.

I was assuming it was going to be used in a studio, a home studio is a different kettle of fish entirely.

There are a good few happy owners of XTZ kit on this forum, hope that helps :)

Ahh yes Mark it's for his home studio - I realise that even a pair of AP100 used as mono blocks would struggle to compete against a 4BSST which they have.. ;)

Thanks again - Should it not work for him then I 'could' always take it home and power my humble set-up ;)

[Reid Malenfant]

I think that given that it is being powered via a 60W per channel amp right now, & the XTZ manages (I think) 50W in class A, then the XTZ would be a very good choice for the money.

As I say, everyone on here that owns an XTZ is very happy indeed ;)

[AlfaGTV]

The XTZ AP100, like it's integrated cousin' does not have "sliding bias ClassA", it is switchable between Class A and Class AB. It does sound rather marvellous, and deliver way more than the promised output dynamically, somewhere around 350w per channel in 8Ohm IIRC.

It is a sturdy build and sounds excellent!
If it is the optimum choice for pro audio usage i wouldnt know, it is heavy and cumbersome, but for studio usage, sure, why not?
Regards Mike

[sq225917]

@KC, I'd suggest that you would be hard pressed to find a solid state amp these days that didn't have a flat frequency response.

[Effem]

I have the XTZ Desire integrated and have no plans on letting it go. The power amp standalone is just that, same as the integrated but with no pre-amp section built in. I have driven a pair of Proac D100s with it and it wasn't puffing and panting that's for sure. Whether it's good enough in the task you are intending to set it I couldn't say for sure, but you do have the home trial option available.

[king_cosmos]

I think that given that it is being powered via a 60W per channel amp right now, & the XTZ manages (I think) 50W in class A, then the XTZ would be a very good choice for the money.

As I say, everyone on here that owns an XTZ is very happy indeed ;)



The XTZ AP100, like it's integrated cousin' does not have "sliding bias ClassA", it is switchable between Class A and Class AB. It does sound rather marvellous, and deliver way more than the promised output dynamically, somewhere around 350w per channel in 8Ohm IIRC.

It is a sturdy build and sounds excellent!
If it is the optimum choice for pro audio usage i wouldnt know, it is heavy and cumbersome, but for studio usage, sure, why not?
Regards Mike

Cheers Mike and Mark. Really to good to know.


@KC, I'd suggest that you would be hard pressed to find a solid state amp these days that didn't have a flat frequency response.

I see. That's great :)


I have the XTZ Desire integrated and have no plans on letting it go. The power amp standalone is just that, same as the integrated but with no pre-amp section built in. I have driven a pair of Proac D100s with it and it wasn't puffing and panting that's for sure. Whether it's good enough in the task you are intending to set it I couldn't say for sure, but you do have the home trial option available.

D100's without a sweat? Wow. Again, good to know it can deliver in terms of power. Seem to be getting positive and more importantly realistic opinions. Thanks everyone.
Anyone else have any thoughts?

[synsei]

Be aware, the website for the XTZ UK dealer Audio Sanctum is flashing up a warning on the Chrome browser that it is infected with malware. This situation has existed since August so why the dealer hasn't sorted it by now is concerning :eyebrows:

[king_cosmos]

Be aware, the website for the XTZ UK dealer Audio Sanctum is flashing up a warning on the Chrome browser that it is infected with malware. This situation has existed since August so why the dealer hasn't sorted it by now is concerning :eyebrows:

Thanks Synsai. I noticed that too. I spoke to XTZ direct via email and according to them, as of now they don't have a UK distributor.

Strange that there's a malware alert though..:scratch:

[AlfaGTV]

Apologies, i didn't remember correctly and hereby amend my lies by showing Power Cube measurements for AP100 from a swedish magazine.

http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/AP100.jpg


And i also need to state that wehn set to Class A operation, it will switch into Class AB if necessary and the measurement above is made under such cirumstances.
It does consume a lot of power and generate a lot of heat though!

Regards
/Mike

[king_cosmos]

Apologies, i didn't remember correctly and hereby amend my lies by showing Power Cube measurements for AP100 from a swedish magazine.

http://www.ollars.net/hififorum/AP100.jpg


And i also need to state that wehn set to Class A operation, it will switch into Class AB if necessary and the measurement above is made under such cirumstances.
It does consume a lot of power and generate a lot of heat though!

Regards
/Mike

Brilliant, thanks Mike.
His room will pretty much be a Sauna if he was add this to his already gigantic/heat radiating rack!

[Jason P]

I would say no to the XTZ if it's going to be rack mounted, unless he can leave a lot of room above. It does get hot - though in AB mode (which will be fine for his uses) less so. As to transparency - well, it sounds good in a hifi sense but for mixing and mastering? Dunno. I've got a Hafler 220 in my edit suite, battleship build and plenty of power driving PMC TB2s. A secondhand pro power amp might be a better buy, and certainly cheaper...

[king_cosmos]

I would say no to the XTZ if it's going to be rack mounted, unless he can leave a lot of room above. It does get hot - though in AB mode (which will be fine for his uses) less so. As to transparency - well, it sounds good in a hifi sense but for mixing and mastering? Dunno. I've got a Hafler 220 in my edit suite, battleship build and plenty of power driving PMC TB2s. A secondhand pro power amp might be a better buy, and certainly cheaper...

Battleship build is definitely a must as they take some serious pounding hence Bryston 20year warranty.

Well he ended up getting a Bryston 8BST secondhand but there doesn't seem to be a 'cheap' Bryston, certainly not one that has a lot of power. It's a good thing though as to me it's an indication of quality.

Going to try it up in my set-up first. Really looking forward to the test - expecting big things. It'd be even better if I could A/B with the XTZ. Still..

[king_cosmos]

Don't know if I should start a new thread as it's a bit off topic but I finally got my hands on the Bryston 8BST. Using the Marantz as a pre amp they're driving Proac Studio 100's and B&W CM7's.

Only had a quick listen with a handful of my reference tracks and a film but to cut a long story short...Wow. I am well and truly blown away.
So much detail delivered with lightning speed and precision. The more I crank it up, the more it gives.. Now I don't know the technicalities of the amp but it's extremely versatile. The lovely chap who I bought it off explained it all to me and he said they're currently running at something like 200 watts per channel. Not sure exactly but suffice to say, lots of power, ultimate control.

I think the first review off this page explains the versatility of the amp better than I ever could.
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/ampli...1_1583crx.aspx

I should have it for 2 weeks before my brother takes it away :(
Hopefully I'll have the XTZ soon to do the A/B test.
Oh as much I love my CM7's I'd forgotten how wonderful the ProAc's are. The Bryston makes them truly sing. Happy days! :)