My sl1200 .......

[Johan]

I plan to try it anyway.
This is what I was thinking for my SL1200MK2 , I try to explain:

Mike new bearing is ordered.:)
Next month I get a demo Jelco 750D. With Oyaide PA2075 tonearm cable.
Is the cartridge Zu 103 a good idea for the Jelco? Do I need anything else with this combination? Hugo's collar? Heavier counterweight? Other headshell? Which armboard? I thought of this but are 'Out of stock' i saw.http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm
Otherwise this ? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-SA-250-Inox-Stainless-Steel-Armboard-Technics-SL-1200-1210-MK2-M5G-/160900190144?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2576660fc0#ht_2655wt_1074

I've never had a tonearm mounted and adjusted. So I need some help for that.:scratch:

Next steps: Isonoe feet, Oyaide MJ12 record mat, record weight .......I thought of a Xinntox Pro-Stabi?

A power supply, and then I thought of a McRU. http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/293-power-supply-for-technics-sl1200-1210.html space is limited, I came out with this. ( Because I can buy a Jelco in demo now i do this later.)

Not everything at the same time of course.
In order to spread the budget that I would do this in a few steps.
I like your advice please.

Gr. Johan

[Johan]

Next month I get a demo Jelco 750D. With Oyaide PA2075 tonearm cable.
Is the cartridge Zu 103 a good idea for the Jelco? Do I need anything else with this combination? Hugo's collar? Heavier counterweight? Other headshell? Which armboard? I thought of this but are 'Out of stock' i saw.http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm
Otherwise this ? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-SA-250-Inox-Stainless-Steel-Armboard-Technics-SL-1200-1210-MK2-M5G-/160900190144?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2576660fc0#ht_2655wt_1074
Gr. Johan

small change.............
Next month I get a demo Jelco 750D. With Oyaide PA2075 tonearm cable......with a Lyra Dorian cartridge and Oyaide headshell HSTF.
I still have the same questions .............
Do I need anything else with this combination? Hugo's collar? something else? armboard? I thought of this but are 'Out of stock' i saw.http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm
Otherwise this ? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-SA-250-Inox-Stainless-Steel-Armboard-Technics-SL-1200-1210-MK2-M5G-/160900190144?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2576660fc0#ht_2655wt_1074

Next steps: Isonoe feet, Oyaide MJ12 record mat, record weight .......I thought of a Xinntox Pro-Stabi?

A power supply, and then I thought of a McRU. http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/p...1200-1210.html space is limited, I came out with this. ( Because I can buy a Jelco in demo now i do this upgrade later.)

I like your advice please.............still

Gr. Johan

[MartinT]

Hi Johan

You will definitely need an armboard for the Jelco. The Lyra and Zu are likely to sound quite different - are you sure you know what sound you are looking for?

[Tarzan]

Johan, the Dorian and the Zu sound a lot different, the former being sharp, brightly lit and quite unforgiving of bad recordings and surface noise, the latter, warmer, fatter and more musical, all in my humble opinion of course, you need think of what sound you are looking for.

[Johan]

Hi Johan
You will definitely need an armboard for the Jelco. The Lyra and Zu are likely to sound quite different - are you sure you know what sound you are looking for?


Thanks for your reply Martin and Tarzan.

I've heard the Lyra and found it very good. And I could buy it with the Jelco for a good price.

You have a preference for a armboard? Is Hugo's collar a good idea for the Jelco?

Gr. Johan

[MartinT]

My ebony armboard made by Speedy Steve is the best I've used. There are several others made for the Technics/Jelco.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14609

Hugo has explained how his collar improves arm alignment and I have heard his turntable. It looks like a great value for money purchase.

[Johan]

My ebony armboard made by Speedy Steve is the best I've used. There are several others made for the Technics/Jelco.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14609

Hugo has explained how his collar improves arm alignment and I have heard his turntable. It looks like a great value for money purchase.

I've never seen the ebony armboard. Nice. still available? Price?

I have sent a pm to Hugo for the collar.:)

[MartinT]

PM Steve about the armboard.

[Johan]

PM Steve about the armboard.

Done, thanks for the input.

Gr. Johan

[daytona600]

ZU 103 in current issue of hifi critic with AT , ortofon , dynavector
They did not rate it very highly at all , last place

[MartinT]

I used to subscribe to Hi-Fi Critic but the problem I had with it was that much of their equipment reviews use Linn/Naim partnering equipment and it slants their findings terribly.

I wouldn't place much credence on a review that places a Zu last. It's going to need a good heavyweight arm & deck, for starters.

[Ammonite Audio]

I used to subscribe to Hi-Fi Critic but the problem I had with it was that much of their equipment reviews use Linn/Naim partnering equipment and it slants their findings terribly.

I wouldn't place much credence on a review that places a Zu last. It's going to need a good heavyweight arm & deck, for starters.

Does it really slant their findings terribly? At least they are consistent with their reference equipment. Martin Colloms uses a fully modded LP12 and Paul Messenger does use Naim, but they do have other reviewers too. I do rather like Rafael Todes' reviews, since they concentrate on music, rather than 'HiFi'.

The Zu was reviewed in the context of a group of affordable MC cartridges, so an affordable Rega RP6 fitted with RB303 tonearm was used. The Zu is very heavy (14g) so it may not be a hopeless match for the Rega arm, like the original DL103 would have been. I'd be interested to know what HiFi Dave thinks about whether the match was good or otherwise.

No HiFi mag is perfect, since our hobby embraces such a diversity of preferences, affections, loyalties and prejudices that are impossible to accommodate in any one publication. For me, it's been rather pleasing that HiFi Critic has grown into quite a substantial read - the last edition runs to 60 pages, without adverts.

[Johan]

PM Steve about the armboard.

Hmmmmm , Steve makes no armboards anymore.
So it is aluminum or stainless steel .......

[Sonority]

A question for those who have experience here - using an armboard that is thicker to raise the overall arm height, plus one of Shuggies collars - how high does the arm end up? Too high for a Funk / MN platter? I'm thinking of using a strengthening plate under the bearing as well so this may well compensate somewhat for it.

[MartinT]

It depends on the armboard and arm. My Dynavector ended up too high with the Funk platter, so Steve's ebony armboard with a lowered centre helped superbly.

[Sonority]

Thanks Martin, thats just what I thought the case would be - getting the arm and working from there is the way to go.

[Johan]

Hmmmmm , Steve makes no armboards anymore.
So it is aluminum or stainless steel .......

I think of something..............Can I use both armboards with Hugo's collar?
http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-SA-250-Inox-Stainless-Steel-Armboard-Technics-SL-1200-1210-MK2-M5G-/160900190144?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2576660fc0#ht_2655wt_1074
You do not need to drill?

Gr. Johan

[Tarzan]

l have a Soundsupport armboard for my SME V which my dealer tried to fit, he could not get the arm to fit properly, he could not get it low enough, so l am stumped as to what to do.:scratch:

[chris@panteg]

l have a Soundsupport armboard for my SME V which my dealer tried to fit, he could not get the arm to fit properly, he could not get it low enough, so l am stumped as to what to do.:scratch:

I use a soundhifi armboard with my 309 , it's in two parts with a lower level , though it's only just low enough but ok !

[Johan]

Andy and Christopher , you've both SME users. Maybe that's why.
For me it is for a Jelco 750.

Gr. Johan

[Johan]

I think of something..............Can I use both armboards with Hugo's collar?
http://www.soundsupports.com/page16.htm
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Jelco-SA-750D-SA-250-Inox-Stainless-Steel-Armboard-Technics-SL-1200-1210-MK2-M5G-/160900190144?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2576660fc0#ht_2655wt_1074


I found this here on the forum about SoundSupport armboard , jelco and Hugo's collar:
..................''My Armboard (Sound Support) turned up today and when the Jelco is fitted there isn't 1mm of spare space'' ...............someone ....... Hugo?

[Ammonite Audio]

I found this here on the forum about SoundSupport armboard , jelco and Hugo's collar:
..................''My Armboard (Sound Support) turned up today and when the Jelco is fitted there isn't 1mm of spare space'' ...............someone ....... Hugo?

I have not seen the Sound Support armboard in the flesh, but it does look like there is not room for the extra 1mm radius of my collar. No such problems with the eBay board, but you may have to put some spacers in to drop the middle part down a little (eg 3mm-5mm), otherwise the arm may not go low enough with the low SL-1210 platter and standard mat.

[Johan]

I have not seen the Sound Support armboard in the flesh, but it does look like there is not room for the extra 1mm radius of my collar. No such problems with the eBay board, but you may have to put some spacers in to drop the middle part down a little (eg 3mm-5mm), otherwise the arm may not go low enough with the low SL-1210 platter and standard mat.

Thank you Hugo, appreciate it.

Gr. Johan

[Tarzan]

Andy and Christopher , you've both SME users. Maybe that's why.
For me it is for a Jelco 750.

Gr. Johan


Er, no l am not Johan yet............................................

[Tarzan]

I use a soundhifi armboard with my 309 , it's in two parts with a lower level , though it's only just low enough but ok !

Did you fit it yourself Chris?

[Mike_New]

I have not seen the Sound Support armboard in the flesh, but it does look like there is not room for the extra 1mm radius of my collar. No such problems with the eBay board, but you may have to put some spacers in to drop the middle part down a little (eg 3mm-5mm), otherwise the arm may not go low enough with the low SL-1210 platter and standard mat.

Hi Johan,
If you are having problems with getting the arm down low enough, which is a problem most people seem to have when changing arms.
Then since you have my Bearing you should consider the Bearing Base Plate.
this raises the whole bearing/Platter assembly by 6mm.
Alternatively if you are considering a replacement Platter then my ETP Platters can be machined to any height (within reason).

[Tarzan]

So is this a Soundsupport problem or any brand Armboard for the Techie, my dealer who tried to fit the Soundsupport SME V armboard could not get the arm low enough, and declared that "he was not happy with the tonearm set up at all", and he has fitted loads of SMEs:scratch:

[Mike_New]

The basic problem with the SL1200 is that the Platter sits very low on the chassis.
Compounding this problem is the fact that the "arm well" base is much lower than chassis level and is designed to accomodate the excellect VTA mechanism of the OEM arm. The SME arm is probably the more difficult of arms to fit. and does require a much higher platter level.

[Johan]

If you are having problems with getting the arm down low enough......

Next month I get the Jelco, I'll see what I can do......... First try the original collar.

Gr. Johan

[Sonority]

The 'original' collar simply will not allow the Jelco arm to fit - it was meant for one arm only - the arm the technics comes with.
You are going to need an amboard (and one of shuggies collars :) )

[Johan]

The 'original' collar simply will not allow the Jelco arm to fit - it was meant for one arm only - the arm the technics comes with.
You are going to need an amboard (and one of shuggies collars :) )


With the 'original collar' i mean the original piece that comes with the Jelco arm............ and the armboard is Sound Support .........

Gr. Johan

[Sonority]

In which case it will all fit together fine, just not quiet as securely ;)

[Johan]

Beginner question :scratch:: How do I put my cartridge in the correct position in the headshell for my Jelco750d ??
What do I need in terms of protractor or something? And where can I find it?

Gr. Johan

[OneyedK]

Where are you from, Johan. I've got a spare protractor you can borrow.

[Sonority]

The Jelco *should* come with at least a basic mounting template with it?
After that it's a question of ''how deep are your pockets & how far do you want to take it'' ;)

[Johan]

Where are you from, Johan. I've got a spare protractor you can borrow.

Haha , leuk , iemand uit België. Ik ben van Gent.

Gr. Johan

[Johan]

''how deep are your pockets & how far do you want to take it'' ;)

Tell more............
I thought something free to download or so .............. but it will not be so easy.:scratch:

Gr. Johan

[MartinT]

The Jelco comes with absolutely no documentation, as I remember.

[Sonority]

Hi Martin,
If you have a look on 2Juki's listing here it clearly shows one? Ok - tis paper / card by the looks, but it says 'mounting template' on it!

It's with me tomorrow so I will know for certain.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350564604013?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[Sonority]

Johan,
If you google 'Vinyl Engine' you will find all the free stuff - indeed It may even be in the AOS itself - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3838

Loads of other stuff out there from a few $$ to Clear Audio / Dr Feickart @ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$££££££££££££££££££££££ :)

[Johan]

Johan,
If you google 'Vinyl Engine' you will find all the free stuff


Googled a lot but I do not know what I need. Can you give an exact link to what i exactly need for a 9 "Jelco.
You can also send via pm. I can then print.


Gr. Johan

[Sonority]

From Vinyl Engine :-
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/jelco/sa-750d.shtml

You will need to join before you can download what you need.

And Vinyl engine is so protective it doesn't allow links... hence what I recommeded about google simply type into the search pane Jelco arm setup and the one that says Jelco 750 owners manual / setup is the one you want..

[The Grand Wazoo]

And that link won't work from here. You'll have to copy it & paste it into the search bar of your web browser.

[OneyedK]

I prefer to use an universal tool, like the Dr. Feickert or the "Schön Schablone".
They work for every tonearm...

http://www.dienadel.de/Schoen+Schablone.htm

http://www.feickert.com/PDF/Protractor_BDA_2011.pdf

Since I bought the whole Dr. Feikert Adjust+ Pro, I don't use the Schön Schablone anymore.
If you pm me your post address, I'll send it to you.
The only downside is that the instructions are in German.

You don't happen to work in Brussels? (would save me a trip to the post office)

[Johan]

I prefer to use an universal tool, like the Dr. Feickert or the "Schön Schablone".
They work for every tonearm...

http://www.dienadel.de/Schoen+Schablone.htm

http://www.feickert.com/PDF/Protractor_BDA_2011.pdf

Since I bought the whole Dr. Feikert Adjust+ Pro, I don't use the Schön Schablone anymore.
If you pm me your post address, I'll send it to you.
The only downside is that the instructions are in German.

You don't happen to work in Brussels? (would save me a trip to the post office)

U heeft PM.

[Sonority]

Just to confirm that the Jelco arrived safe and well from 2Juki, with the best packaging ever from anyone on Ebay.
Fitting instructions, template and a nicely made perspex alignment tool all in the box, along with the heavier counterweight should I need it.
Off to J7 with it now to be re-wired rather than mess about later.. :)

[Johan]

Alright, so far so good , So far we have:
Mike New Bearing , Jelco 750DB , SoundSupports armboard , Hugo's Black Collar , Lyra Dorian cartridge , Oyaide PA2075 tonearm cable , Oyaide HS-TF headshell (not mounted yet)

Next step: Oyaide MJ12 platter mat , Oyaide BR-ONE butyl rubber turntable mat , Oyaide STB-MS turntable weight , Isonoe feets and Techniboots isolation feets.......... And as a final step the power supply .............. if the budget is there .........:eyebrows:

http://i46.tinypic.com/21jzw44.jpg

[RobbieGong]

Alright, so far so good , So far we have:
Mike New Bearing , Jelco 750DB , SoundSupports armboard , Hugo's Black Collar , Lyra Dorian cartridge , Oyaide PA2075 tonearm cable , Oyaide HS-TF headshell (not mounted yet)

Next step: Oyaide MJ12 platter mat , Oyaide BR-ONE butyl rubber turntable mat , Oyaide STB-MS turntable weight , Isonoe feets and Techniboots isolation feets.......... And as a final step the power supply .............. if the budget is there .........:eyebrows:

http://i46.tinypic.com/21jzw44.jpg

Hi Johan, Looking good (and most likely sounding good too). Might be worth putting the Oyaide platter mat and weight money towards one of the upgrade platters ie: Funk or Mike New ETP but that's just my opinion. I had the Oyaide mat and and weight but ultimately sold them on. Deep down I really never liked the stock platter no matter how I 'dressed it up' so I knew I had to go all the way and go for one the upgrade platters which are most definately better than the 'ringy' stock platter sonically (and look plenty better IMO of course). Just a genuine steer but ultimately and respectfully up to you. ATB :)

[MartinT]

How does it sound at the moment, Johan?

I would divert all funds towards an external PSU as the very next step - it's critical and will give you a big leap up in performance.

[Marco]

Might be worth putting the Oyaide platter mat and weight money towards one of the upgrade platters ie: Funk or Mike New ETP but that's just my opinion

+1 (otherwise all you're doing is applying a 'bandage'), but it's all looking good so far, Johan! :)

Marco.

[Johan]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments.

@Robert and Marco:
Hmmm.........Beginning to doubt.
What does the Funk or Mike New ETP better than the Oyaide ??
And I love the dots on the Technics platter , nostalgia :D:D




MartinT: How does it sound at the moment, Johan?
I would divert all funds towards an external PSU as the very next step - it's critical and will give you a big leap up in performance.

It sounds acceptable, something dark , voice at the correct height , stage is there but i have not the stage of the CD player. Deep bass , deep enough for me. I prefer more detail and big stage than the lowest bass.

Gr Johan

[chris@panteg]

Johan , you could move the transformer to an an external case for a very cheap upgrade .

[RobbieGong]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments.

@Robert and Marco:
Hmmm.........Beginning to doubt.
What does the Funk or Mike New ETP better than the Oyaide ??
And I love the dots on the Technics platter , nostalgia :D:D




It sounds acceptable, something dark , voice at the correct height , stage is there but i have not the stage of the CD player. Deep bass , deep enough for me. I prefer more detail and big stage than the lowest bass.

Gr Johan

Hi Johan, Some people love the look of the Techie platter and that’s fine cause we all have different tastes – Thank God :lol: ! Looks aside, it boils down to the fact that everything in hifi has it’s own sonic signature and I mean everything – mats, speaker cable, interconnects, rca connectors, alluminium, metal, wood, plastic etc. Some items are solid / rigid, some are resonant, specifically tonearms for instance. The stock platter is case in point, tap it and it rings like a bell (give it a try, while it is in situe, put your ear close tap the top of the platter and listen for the ring that lasts). For me spending nigh on £450.00 on an alluminium mat and matching weight isn’t the best way round it (and I’ve tried it), as pretty as it may look. Others here who have gone for non resonant upgrade platters will tell you that you notice the difference as I guess yet another coloration layer is removed. I pm’d a member myself before taking a punt on my Mike New ETP and he said that his upgrade platter was the icing on the cake of his Techie upgrade journey. Remember, depending on where you want to take things !?! The Techie in stock form isn’t perfect. Areas to address in that respect are go for external psu, better arm (stock arm good but thin / resonant – limited), Mike New bearing much better than the stock bearing and stock platter as it is again resonant. The bottom line is it is up to you where you want to go, what you hope to achieve and ultimately up to you how you want to go about doing it :)

[chris@panteg]

Hi Johan, Some people love the look of the Techie platter and that’s fine cause we all have different tastes – Thank God :lol: ! Looks aside, it boils down to the fact that everything in hifi has it’s own sonic signature and I mean everything – mats, speaker cable, interconnects, rca connectors, alluminium, metal, wood, plastic etc. Some items are solid / rigid, some are resonant, specifically tonearms for instance. The stock platter is case in point, tap it and it rings like a bell (give it a try, while it is in situe, put your ear close tap the top of the platter and listen for the ring that lasts). For me spending nigh on £450.00 on an alluminium mat and matching weight isn’t the best way round it (and I’ve tried it), as pretty as it may look. Others here who have gone for non resonant upgrade platters will tell you that you notice the difference as I guess yet another coloration layer is removed. I pm’d a member myself before taking a punt on my Mike New ETP and he said that his upgrade platter was the icing on the cake of his Techie upgrade journey. Remember, depending on where you want to take things !?! The Techie in stock form isn’t perfect. Areas to address in that respect are go for external psu, better arm (stock arm good but thin / resonant – limited), Mike New bearing much better than the stock bearing and stock platter as it is again resonant. The bottom line is it is up to you where you want to go, what you hope to achieve and ultimately up to you how you want to go about doing it :)

Robbie , its important any replacement platter is reasonably close in weight/mass to the original platter , too much weight will make the PLL struggle and you lose that pin sharp timing ,this is not something I made up ,but as explained to me by Richard (vantage) .

[RobbieGong]

HI Chris :) , You could well be right, platter weight / mass I'm sure has been covered before here although I'd still like to know what people think about the subject. The Funk platter is said to be very good indeed and is roughly the same weight as the stock platter. I've gone for Mikes ETP because it is somewhere in between weight wise and the reviews I read / received regarding it were again very good indeed. Some of Mikes Aluminum and copper bonded Platters are very heavy but reviews for those have also been very good :scratch: Maybe others can shed some more light, It's an interesting one.

[OneyedK]

Maybe others can shed some more light, It's an interesting one.
It's a very difficult subject (to me), but I'll list what is known:

SL1200 : torque : 1.5kg-cm
stock platter + mat weight : 1.7kg (weighted myself, manual says 2kg)

SP10 mkII : torque : 6kg-cm
platter : 2.9kg

SP10 mkIII : torque : 16kg-cm
platter : 10kg

Problem is, the torque of the 1200's motor cannot be changed.
The response of the PLL loop can be altered, but there's a "speed" limit in how fast corrections can be made, as the torque of the motor cannot control the platter so fast.

What happens if you load the 1200's motor with let's say a 3kg platter?
My assumption is that the effectiveness of the PLL function of the deck get's reduced.
But at the same time, you get increased speed stability thanks to the higher rotational mass.
Correction will however be slower, so higher speed deviations will be allowed by the electronics...
--> these are my assumptions, feel free to contradict them.

[RobbieGong]

Useful Karl – I’m gonna weigh my ETP platter just to see now because I’m curious. What it will mean in principal I’m not sure to be honest lol :)

[Johan]

Johan , you could move the transformer to an an external case for a very cheap upgrade .

Right, that is also possible......... But i still ask myself what a good power supply can do. ;)

Gr. Johan

[Johan]

............. For me spending nigh on £450.00 on an alluminium mat and matching weight isn’t the best way round it (and I’ve tried it), as pretty as it may look........

You are right. I had already looked earlier at the Funk Firm platter.........Another look these days I think.

Gr. Johan

[RobbieGong]

Right, that is also possible......... But i still ask myself what a good power supply can do. ;)

Gr. Johan

A ‘good’ external power supply brings a fair sonic improvement for sure. I went from stock ps to base Timestep, then to the very large (and heavy) Custom Cables DC-3 (upgraded DC-2 on request) which I now have and the difference has been obvious – more open sound and bigger soundstage.

[chris@panteg]

It's a very difficult subject (to me), but I'll list what is known:

SL1200 : torque : 1.5kg-cm
stock platter + mat weight : 1.7kg (weighted myself, manual says 2kg)

SP10 mkII : torque : 6kg-cm
platter : 2.9kg

SP10 mkIII : torque : 16kg-cm
platter : 10kg

Problem is, the torque of the 1200's motor cannot be changed.
The response of the PLL loop can be altered, but there's a "speed" limit in how fast corrections can be made, as the torque of the motor cannot control the platter so fast.

What happens if you load the 1200's motor with let's say a 3kg platter?
My assumption is that the effectiveness of the PLL function of the deck get's reduced.
But at the same time, you get increased speed stability thanks to the higher rotational mass.
Correction will however be slower, so higher speed deviations will be allowed by the electronics...
--> these are my assumptions, feel free to contradict them.

I think that's pretty good , speed stability is not a problem even with a much higher mass platter , it's just the ability to correct it that's diminished , if you can't hear it , don't worry I guess ?

[Marco]

Both Martin T and I have compared, at some length, the (high-mass) Mike New aluminium platter and the (much lower mass) Funk Firm acrylic platter, in our respective systems, and so know exactly what both platters do, sonically, when fitted to a (modified) SL-1210.

We both started out with MN aluminium platters, and have since moved onto the (much lighter) Funk one - and there were valid reasons for that. My main reason for doing so was that I was never entirely comfortable with using such a heavy platter on a T/T fundamentally not designed for it (due to some of what Karl, and others previously, have outlined), and so if I found another platter which delivered the goods, sonically, to the same standard or better than my existing MN platter, and more closely matched the mass of the stock Technics one, then I was willing to use it - and so when the Funk platter came along and did precisely that, in my system, then switching for me was a no-brainer :)

The MN aluminum and the Funk Firm platter unquestionably have different sonic signatures, mainly in the bass (and to a lesser extent at the top end), and that difference will suit some systems more than others. Generally, the MN aluminium platter produces a 'meatier' bass (thus suiting systems lacking a little in that area, perhaps through the use of small speakers), whereas the Funk one produces a lighter sound, although bass is by no means lacking, but in my opinion it's just that bit more precise in the lower frequencies, and times better, but the Funk platter also has a slightly 'darker' sound too, perhaps due to the total absence of ringing, which any metal platter will produce an element of.

That ringing effect, to my ears, produces a 'zinginess' at the top end, with the MN aluminium platter, which is completely absent with the Funk one, and I suspect also with Mike's own ETP platter (in that respect it would be interesting to do a comparison), therefore it's not a case that the Funk platter produces a duller sound, compared with the MN aluminium one; merely a cleaner, more lifelike one, to my ears, due to the total absence of ringing. Don't get me wrong, the MN one isn't bright sounding either, but there exists a slight 'sheen' to the sound, which for me is evidence of (albeit subtle) coloration.

However, all the replacement platters available for the Techy, which I know of (the two Mike produces and the Funk one) are fundamentally MASSIVE upgrades on the stock Techy one, or any stock Techy platter fitted with simply a 'fancy' mat. What your favourite platter will be, ultimately, will be down to which one integrates most successfully with your T/T and system, not to mention which you prefer the look of! :cool:

Marco.

[JazzBones]

Robbie , its important any replacement platter is reasonably close in weight/mass to the original platter , too much weight will make the PLL struggle and you lose that pin sharp timing ,this is not something I made up ,but as explained to me by Richard (vantage) .

I use a MN copper/ali platter, as does REXTON I believe and his is tricked out to the max! I have been using this well over a year, maybe even longer with absolutely NO PROBS at all. Before and after each play session I check speed stability with thee strobes (KAB and Project plus Loricrafts) and there is NO speed drift whatsoever, spot on without waver.!
When I was running in my MN bearing two and half years ago my Techy was on a workbench revolving non-stop for nine days, with loaded platter, just to test the bearing durability, it passed with flying colours, its documented on one of my earliest post here, go find. I'm sure with all of Mike New's engineering and electronics credentials he would not have made and marketed his Ali/copper platter if it was going to cause problems.

Chris, I've noticed that you have unquestionable faith in what Richard of Vantage has said and I don't questions his credentials at all, but before him you set great belief in what Cawley said on his TimeStep forum before coming over to AoS, I have read your post over time.

I believe that Marco and MartinT, who use the Funk platter, changed because they preferred its performance in their systems and not because of PLL durability but both these gentlemen can correct me if I'm wrong?

Don't take this as having a go at you but as my thinking being different from yours.

:)

[chris@panteg]

Hi Ron , did you read my previous post ? Perhaps not , but like I said speed stability is not a problem ! It's not what I'm saying , it's the way the PLL corrects any changes with respect to load , no need for the over the top reaction , it's no big deal .

[MartinT]

I heard the move to the Funk platter as a reduction in the 'shoutiness' of the midrange - closely allied to your 'zinginess', Marco. I didn't find a reduction in the level of bass, but the tightness, quality and texture of bass was much better defined.

[Marco]

Yup - it wasn't so much a reduction in ultimate bass extension (in fact, definitely not), but with the Funk platter, more the realisation of an overall less 'heavy' sound, which with some material could become rather overbearing, especially with the large speakers we're both using, which aren't exactly shy in the bass department, or in revealing the low-end energy in suitable recordings!

At the end of the day, it all comes down to synergy :)

Marco.

[OneyedK]

if you can't hear it , don't worry I guess ?
What worries me more is that some people translate change+spending a lot of money on that change into something that's audably better.
Our audiophile minds play tricks on us.
It's a bit like loading a belt drive with a synchronous motor with lots of weight, at a certain point speed stability will suffer as the belt will not get stronger, nor will the motor.
Fact of the matter is, I don't know where that point is on our beloved Technics.
One thing I know is, you cannot damage the motor or the circuit by using heavy platters.

This said, this morning, before we started talking about it, I ordered my Funk Firm platter and 5mm achromat, I have no doubt it will outperform my stock platter.

I have to figure out the next step, when funds are back up, I don't want to go crazy on the PSU, but a better 5V regulator is in order (still a bit jitter from the 4011) and while I'm at it, cleaning up the 9.4V seems also a good idea. An outboard transformer is a must, don't know yet if I want to place the rectifier (I love low or noiseless ones) and first cap outside too.

[MartinT]

This said, this morning, before we started talking about it, I ordered my Funk Firm platter and 5mm achromat, I have no doubt it will outperform my stock platter.

It definitely will, Karl. You will be amazed at how good it sounds. Don't forget to bond the two together with a smear of petroleum jelly.

[OneyedK]

petroleum jelly.
Is that vaseline?

[RobbieGong]

Is that vaseline?

Yep :D

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
In fact the Alluminium platters that Marco and Martin had were not identical. Martin’s was the first one that I supplied and it was just plain Alluminium, with Brass inserts if I recall. I then had a conversation with Marco who suggested that a copper or copper bonded Alluminium platter would be better, so I produced the first one for him.
It was at that point that my Copper Bonded Platters became the platter of choice. I had an ETP platter in the works at the same time, but the copper one seemed to be the preferred one. I had also machined up and tried an Acrylic one, but it did not sound correct to my ears.

When the Acrylic platter became the flavour of the day, I decided to offer both types of platter. The ETP platter is much lighter that the Copper Bonded Platter for obvious reasons, although the type of ETP I use is expensive.
However I have kept to the same design philosophy of using a brass center insert which incorporates the spindle taper, and I provide two 8MM threaded lifting holes for the careful removal of the platter.
I guess in the final analysis there is not an enormous sonic difference between the three choices, excepting that the Copper Bonded Platter is indeed heavier and potentially is better for those who like lots of bass.

[Marco]

In fact the Alluminium platters that Marco and Martin had were not identical. Martin’s was the first one that I supplied and it was just plain Alluminium, with Brass inserts if I recall. I then had a conversation with Marco who suggested that a copper or copper bonded Alluminium platter would be better, so I produced the first one for him.


Good point, Mike, I had forgotten about that.

Thing is, with these types of mods, it's all a learning process... It's also good that people now have a choice, with three superb bespoke-made platters to choose from - all of which significantly improve the sonic performance of the Technics :)

Marco.

[Johan]

Okay guys, two possibilities. 1)- I choose for the looks (Oyaide). 2)- I choose for the sound quality (funk Firm). I'm going for 2 when the budget allows , the sound quality..........not good for my wallet , better for my ears. :rolleyes:

I follow the same path of MartinT. I agree with his explanation , has a similar set like mine with large speakers. And I know Pass and Ayre well. Can estimate it that way.

Damn ................ and I'm still going to miss the dots.:eyebrows:

Gr. Johan

[MartinT]

Damn ................ and I'm still going to miss the dots.:eyebrows:

You won't for long :)
The funk looks gorgeous. You can also disable the strobe as you won't need it and the circuit generates noise.

[Johan]

It sounds acceptable, something dark , voice at the correct height , stage is there but i have not the stage of the CD player. Deep bass , deep enough for me. I prefer more detail and big stage than the lowest bass.


After some listening I can agree with myself. It sound until now very dark and with a heavy sound. Something on the dull side. It may be a little more sparkle. Curious with further upgrades to do better.........

Gr. Johan

[OneyedK]

It sound until now very dark and with a heavy sound. Something on the dull side. It may be a little more sparkle.
Hello Johan,
Are you still using the stock platter mat?

[Johan]

Hello Johan,
Are you still using the stock platter mat?

Yes , and I also have a dj mat.

[jamington2004]

Yes , and I also have a dj mat.

Hi Johan..... I have recenty aquired a 1210 of epic proportions incuding the MIke New bearing.

All I can say is that it is stunning..... am listening to some good recordings with vocals.... like In Rainbows.... and the mid range is quite stunning!!

And I listened to LL Cool J last night - and the bass was like nothing I have heard before..... had the bass set to the lowest level and it was still huge and tight!

The vocals are close if not better to the ECLIPSE SE with off board PSU and RB1000 I had (3.5k all in)..... the bass I would say surpasses it!

Anyway - reason for my post to you..... the platter modification I had is a lovely one indeed - done by Inspire Hifi, with the alluminium bonded to the underside of the platter! Can't tell you how it compares - but I think its a great idea myself :)

Here's some pics in a FS thread...... but todays listening session has made me seriously consider changing my mind - no matter how good the replacement is meant to be!

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22045

[RobbieGong]

Yes , and I also have a dj mat.

The stock platter is fair enough but the dj mat ?!?? :doh:

[Johan]

!.........the dj mat ?!?? :doh:

I know , i know :eyebrows::eyebrows:

[Johan]

Anyway - reason for my post to you..... the platter modification I had is a lovely one indeed - done by Inspire Hifi, with the alluminium bonded to the underside of the platter!

You would have to try everything .........:scratch:

[jamington2004]

You would have to try everything .........:scratch:

Not sure i get you?

[Johan]

Not sure i get you?

The Inspire platter , the Mike ETP platter , the Funk Firm platter........
Listen to all and then decide which one is the best.

[RobbieGong]

How much is the Inspire platter mod ??

[Johan]

How much is the Inspire platter mod ??

look at this ......... £ 200.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22045

[jamington2004]

The Inspire platter , the Mike ETP platter , the Funk Firm platter........
Listen to all and then decide which one is the best.

I guess sometimes you have to go with your heart..... No way i can afford the funk mod.... And my guess is any of the heavy metal platter upgrades are going to sound pretty similar (IMHO)

So i went with the one i liked the idea of :)

Anyway just thought you should add it your list options :)